Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by go_erp_some_where_else

Finally!
Even here on aether its crazy to see like 20 PF's advertising rp houses and other dumb stuff like feet pics for cash etc, honestly rp has no place in this game, it just makes everyone want to actually play the game less and less. It's annoying to see it in pf and the Other tab should definitely be removed entirely and replaced with something like the Barter or Gear/Item selling tab that way the good people who use the other tab like crafted gear/food/pot/ glamour sellers dont get lost in the shuffle with all the crappy erp posts

---

Just for your information, FFXIV is cataloged as MMORPG ill translate it for you Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game, and is based in what the tablet top RP is, you taking control of your character and working your way through whatever the Game master trow at you.
Basically by playing ANY mmorpg you are part of an RP community wanting it or not.

remember ppl hide the names on the pics, don't get banned for that and the discord contact too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Meadows

This GM needs to be investigated by the SE support team managers for inconsistent policy enforcement and potential abuse of power, and maybe even be removed or suspended from duty based on this.

---

They seem a really good GM from what I've seen. :D There's no evidence they have done anything wrong.

We should just assume this is the policy. If internally they decide it's not, they can do whatever internal processes they see fit (like investigations).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They seem a really good GM from what I've seen. :D There's no evidence they have done anything wrong.

We should just assume this is the policy. If internally they decide it's not, they can do whatever internal processes they see fit (like investigations).

---

A good GM... who has now warned and even banned several people despite no precedence every being set in five years.

If there is a new internal policy, it's extremely shady on SE's side because it essentially means they arbitrarily decided to change the rules without saying a word. Considering only one GM seems to be actively enforcing it, that only looks further suspect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They seem a really good GM from what I've seen. :D There's no evidence they have done anything wrong.

We should just assume this is the policy. If internally they decide it's not, they can do whatever internal processes they see fit (like investigations).

---

Assumption of policy is not good policy. The quoted policies do not seem to apply outside of certain stretched circumstances.

That, and causing a community to get up-in-arms and raise things that are problematic about what was suggested as alternative isn't exactly good customer relations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Untimelydoom

For everyone complaining about ERP/NSFW content, I have never seen a PF (on the data center w the largest RP crowd) that flat out goes into ERP/NSFW content in the title. It will say 18+ etc. etc. My advice to you, is two fold. One don't yuck someone else's yum. Two grow up. You can look at it and say, "Oh hey, not for me." and keep scrolling. This problem affects ALL RP venue's and events even those you may enjoy yourself.

---

To be fair to those against, advertising courts is basically advertising what I can assume is inappropriate in some context of ToS services. Then again, every venue owner could drop that one line because by this point we all know what the melding tag means on a character, anyways.

Suggesting people be 18+ and NSFW shouldn't be an issue, it's about language as much as anything. I see more open cursing in shoutspam than I ever have in any NSFW venue I've ever been in, too. 99% of that stuff is done in /tell or long after hours when the PF is down and the venue is shutdown but for an inner circle.

He could be a good GM but nobody is infallible it could be their own misunderstanding, by which point it'd need be corrected.

If the ruling has changed, it's a bit crappy to not tell people and start throwing people into gaol and putting warnings against them for something that's always been okay.

Given it is only 1 GM I am inclined to believe the former and not latter. GM's are human too and are subject to error in judgment too.

Also in being human he could be abusing his power too. Hopefully it's being looked into so we can get what the official stance is here and what the right way about it is.

Using shout seems like a terrible alternative that's MORE disruptive that the method people are using now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by van_arn

You're right, we need to make a new tab for Market so the crafters have a place to sell their wares.

We can nuke the brothels in the T rated game though. Or, more accurately, send them deep underground.

---

Hey brotherman, Id agree with you BUT https://imgur.com/a/QGloB57 .

Once you go online and interact w people. They no longer have a rating for it. So yes your comment is 100% wrong here. I can talk about what I want in game as long as it is not hurting someone else. In no way is someone saying "Come to Sallie's Corner Brothel" hurting you. Tighten up the shoe string and be a little less sensitive about this stuff.

Don't yuck someone else's yum.

I've done both sides of this.

All you folks that are siding with the GM, have no idea about the genre or culture of the game you play. MMORPG, RP is in the name, party finding for RP (just because YOU do not like it doesn't mean it needs to be banned, get a grip) is absolutely fine. And the "brothels" you complain about? Sorry, that's an adult RP, that as long as you're upfront about it, cool. They've been around since BEFORE DATA CENTER WIDE PF. It's only because someone got butthurt about it recently that it's even an issue.

Do I RP? Yes I do. Have I used the PF to make new friends, FIND AN IN GAME WIFE, AND complete the raids I was interested in? You bet I have. Get over yourselves, and quit ruining our fun, you want this game to become WoW, with people leaving it in droves and the only people left in group finder are PvP boosters, RMTs for content and gil? Because this is the start of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PeanutCheese

To be fair to those against, advertising courts is basically advertising what I can assume is inappropriate in some context of ToS services. Then again, every venue owner could drop that one line because by this point we all know what the melding tag means on a character, anyways.

Suggesting people be 18+ and NSFW shouldn't be an issue, it's about language as much as anything. I see more open cursing in shoutspam than I ever have in any NSFW venue I've ever been in, too. 99% of that stuff is done in /tell or long after hours when the PF is down and the venue is shutdown but for an inner circle.

---

This may be true but then advertising you are running the newest extreme and need members is exactly the same thing. Where do you draw the line? If you want to go into context of what is an advertisement then you will see that everything in the PF is technically an advertisement. Therefore the idea that advertising anything in there (beyond RMT) is what the function is for and the whole service breaks the ToS. So instead of going down that rabbit hole we can look at it as it is, one person on a crusade to clear PF from RP. Which is not okay.

This is blowing up over on Twitter and Reddit as well, getting to the point that they may have to say something about this.

This is ridiculous. Our FC runs a tiny cafe twice a month. We're not a big FC, we don't have a lot of people. It's a nice place for people to get together and pretend to drink tea and eat cake in a cute little house with some pretty decorations. Fellowships are only useful to people who already have connections, the same with Linkshells, and they both fall well short of what they could be, they certainly aren't useful in advertising for our cafe to people who want to have a quiet cafe night.

Small venues like ours will struggle without party finder. Some nights we only have one or two people stop by even with advertising in both party finder and spamming in cities. The majority of people who show up are due to us advertising in party finder. They'll hop into party to confirm where we are, then come on over.

Roleplay is part of the content of FFXIV, without roleplay I can safely say many of our FC members wouldn't play this game as often between patches. The story is fun, the housing and decorations are fun. Costumes are end game content. We all know why we raid: to play dress up with our virtual dolls so we can hang out with our friends and show off our cool fashion sense. The most recent Eden raids added the coolest jewelry we've gotten so far so you know we all did it, but we did it because we like looking nice and wearing it to roleplay in later.

If they're so worried about clogging up the Other tab then add a roleplay tab into party finder, otherwise independent roleplayers will have a harder time finding events and small rp venues will struggle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saefinn

He could be a good GM but nobody is infallible it could be their own misunderstanding, by which point it'd need be corrected.

---

That's very true. Everyone perceives the world differently and that includes GMs' differing interpretation of the rules, but if that's the case no doubt others at SE will see this uproar and decide if they agree with this interpretation.

Quote:

---

If the ruling has changed, it's a bit crappy to not tell people and start throwing people into gaol and putting warnings against them for something that's always been okay.

---

Most of the pictures say it was in response to a player report, so perhaps it just usually doesn't get reported.

Even though I do side-eye some of the more blatantly lewd adverts, there have been hundreds of venues/events that I've explored and enjoyed that I would not known existed if it weren't for party finder blurbs. A majority of my friends list came from folks I've met at RP venues. I find the PF adverts to be far less intrusive than the shouts that the GMs seem to want to encourage. I do a fair bit of PF time finding high-level raid parties too and not once have the RP adverts been an issue. There's a tab system for a reason. What IS distracting and detrimental is all the PF listings for RMT and selling clears. I've not seen any action on those.

While having an outside network of discord and wikis like the EU players claim to have sounds useful, NA just doesn't have one that's commonly known. There have been a few discords and gdoc files that have come and gone, but the only way to know about them is word of mouth, and if you're new to the RP scene altogether, you don't have a way to hear about them. Saying "well you should make this" to replace a feature that has been used for that purpose for as long as I've played the game (5+ years) seems like an attempt to shrug the need for such a feature off on the community, and punishing them for using in-game resources.

And quite frankly, the Fellowship feature is pretty well useless. Too difficult to navigate, no proper search function, player limits, character limits, no chat feature...I see more of those set up for lewd things than I do PF listings.

It's fine if you prefer not to RP in an MMORPG; there's dozens of other options for you in the game. The fact of the matter is Role Playing is in the name and is intrinsically built into the story and world itself. You can focus on High-Level content and savage raiding and whatever other content you prefer, but the stuff you're not into shouldn't be removed simply because you aren't a fan.

It does worry me that one particular GM in general has been going about hunting down these listings and that there isn't clear literature for us to refer to on the matter. If it's truly TOS 3.3, then it needs to be elaborated upon because to say something is just "offensive" can be pretty broad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They seem a really good GM from what I've seen. :D There's no evidence they have done anything wrong.

We should just assume this is the policy. If internally they decide it's not, they can do whatever internal processes they see fit (like investigations).

---

Man this idea is the most backwards way of thinking I have ever seen. You let them just do whatever they like without anyone watching over them? That has gone super well recently in the real world (sarcasm 100% intended). When it comes to people in a powerful position, they also need to be checked. As I posted before, there is no rule that states this is allowed.

Once again because you have a problem w RP in PF, SKIP OVER IT. You do not have to pay attention to it. I promise it won't hurt you to keep scrolling (even though RP is at the bottom of the list every single time).

Side note, you play on Balmung, the largest RP server, you should expect Rp to be happening all around you. If you don't like RP then jump ship to another server.

That there is now this commotion when we have been complaining for almost a year about the RMTin PF is even funny because previously everyone was silent or turned a blind eye with stupid excuses.

Ideally, the rules are even for everyone, that if they are going to ban people for promoting PR things, they will also ban the rest of the people who use the FP for functions that are not. The Other tab is for something and that's where all the RMT garbage should be along with the rest of the things that have no place in the rest of the tabs.

PD: Am I seeing the same people who laughed at the complaints of the RMT in the PF or taking weight away from this problem now crying and sending emails to SE for this, poetic justice??

As a role-player myself, I'm fine with the blatantly inappropriate advertisements being stamped out. It's not a good look for the game's main networking feature to be infested with advertisements for player run brothels of all things. With that said, if the intention is to clean up the party finder then the content sellers need to be dealt with as well. I'm tired of trying to find a group for something only to have to scroll through numerous listings asking people to move to Discord to discuss the purchase of content clears.

My guess is things are being cleaned up in preparation of the server visit expansion due to arrive with Endwalker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Untimelydoom

Once again because you have a problem w RP in PF, SKIP OVER IT. You do not have to pay attention to it. I promise it won't hurt you to keep scrolling (even though RP is at the bottom of the list every single time).

Side note, you play on Balmung, the largest RP server, you should expect Rp to be happening all around you. If you don't like RP then jump ship to another server.

---

I don't really understand why you assumed I don't like RP. That's why I joined Balmung to begin with.

Just defending the GMs that's all, who without evidence to the contrary, are probably just doing their job. I agree this thread should be here (to make the frustrations known to SE generally).

i think the one thing that sits the most weird to me, out of everything that sits weird with this whole situation, is that it's this one GM for the most part. i dont know how the GM team internally handles who gets what reports but it's weird that's it's this one GM. has there been any other GMs handling these reports or just the one?

For the players complaining about brothels in this game ... there are prostitutes and sex worker NPCs throughout the game. The Beehive exists. There's even dialogue between sex worker NPCs and another NPC where they are soliciting services and there is mention of STIs. Sex work and mention of it is canon in this game.

Furthermore, there are individuals who were sent to GM jail over advertising non-ERP venues, so let's keep the sex shaming out of this.

I'm just here hoping SE does something about all those obnoxious Run Sellers & RMT adverts, in addition to adding a tab specifically for RP adverts. As has many others in this thread have stated, I've had quite a bit of fun visiting events put on by the community, and it is one of the major reasons I've stuck with this game since the launch of Heavansward.

Here's my thoughts on the entire matter. I feel like the GM(s) that are doing this, are out of line. They cite in the screenshots shared forming groups for maps, hunts, etc. But those items have clear, designated tabs for that content. The Other tabs have always been content that does not fall in any of the official group content tabs, and the fact they are targeting roleplayers tells me these GM's are very anti roleplaying. When it comes to PF, and the GM's flawed arguement that it isn't for social stuff, is an oxymoronic statement. Parties is a social part of the game. It brings people together to socialize, and do things together. Roleplaying venues are no different. They advertise a social grouping, where the group would meet to do a social group activity. Roleplaying is by definition, a social group. One cannot roleplay by themselves, it is a group of like-minded individuals coming together to tell a story of their characters and experience others stories.

So this targeting of RP venue advertising in the other tab, needs to stop. It's stupid and petty on the GM's part and there are far better reasons to target people in PF. Like we all know selling housing plots is against the TOS. And then there are even RMTers using it as well for nefarious means. But targeting RP venues makes 0 sense. Also to the ones going on about brothels, so what? I see them ads too and you know what I do about it? I roll my eyes and look at the next listing. That's all one really needs to do. Hopefully the higher ups will address this and get the GM's to back off this attack on the RP community. Because it's better to have a PF advertising an RP venue that can be skimmed over or not even viewed entirely, than to enter a city and get bombarded by millions of shouts about RP venues

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

Honestly, adding an RP tab to the Party finder could probably solve this easily. And also maybe an 18+ filter for listings if seeing them bothers people. That way those who feel they're being forced to see the existence of these things would be able to avoid it.

But this does feel a bit out of the blue and the actions of the GM are inconsistent. It doesn't make any sense that they would just target the "other" tab and RP venue postings specifically, and just ignore all the RMTs on the 50/60/70 or leveling tabs and such...

I get that you seem to hold a grudge against everyone for not joining your holy crusade against RMT'ers, but why do we need to light part of the community on fire in what appears to be a clear divide between all the things the GM's have told us so far in an attempt to get rid of the RMT'ers? Isn't the ideal to get rid of the rotten PF's without blowing everyone up as a side effect?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larkspen

For the players complaining about brothels in this game ... there are prostitutes and sex worker NPCs throughout the game. The Beehive exists. There's even dialogue between sex worker NPCs and another NPC where they are soliciting services and there is mention of STIs. Sex work and mention of it is canon in this game.

Furthermore, there are individuals who were sent to GM jail over advertising non-ERP venues, so let's keep the sex shaming out of this.

---

There's a whole fate in Costa del Sol where you escort one of the lala's ladies to "spend some time" with a client. It's blatent what they are doing. Same with a lot of things in Kugane going on.

Why is it that there's only this one "GM Wyndallus" in all of these screenshots? I'm seeing screenshots from a Gm Dorxenore that says it's fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

---

These already exist. The problem is that it's not cohesive: some venues don't use them at all, some of these servers don't want 18+ content advertised in their space, et al. There's also the FFXIV RP Calendar maintained by Erah'sae Zhwan, but due to TOS of their host, 18+ venues can't be advertised there.

Also noting: 18+ may not always be sex and brothels. I know a few murder mysteries I'd run that I'd keep 18+ just because they'll deal with heavy topics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larkspen

For the players complaining about brothels in this game ... there are prostitutes and sex worker NPCs throughout the game. The Beehive exists. There's even dialogue between sex worker NPCs and another NPC where they are soliciting services and there is mention of STIs. Sex work and mention of it is canon in this game.

Furthermore, there are individuals who were sent to GM jail over advertising non-ERP venues, so let's keep the sex shaming out of this.

---

That's static content that has been vetted by and designated acceptable by a censor board, hence the game receiving a rating that covers those things.

This is a very different thing from dynamic interactions between strangers, wherein it's virtually impossible to determine whether or not one of the parties is a minor, particularly because this game is specifically available to teenagers.

TL;DR NPCs can't groom minors

I genuinely don't see why this is hard for people to understand. There is a place for degeneracy, it's just not in the group-finding feature of a teen rated game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJAzure

Why is it that there's only this one "GM Wyndallus" in all of these screenshots? I'm seeing screenshots from a Gm Dorxenore that says it's fine.

---

Sadly that screenshot is from 2016 (I've had connections with the FC before that got that, as it turns out, though not for a couple years), which means old ToS, which means New vague ToS nulled it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

---

some of us also don't want to join big ol' group discord servers like that because that's just not our style. also idk if you know roleplayers but man it would get to petty squabbles and beef and drama real fast which is another reason a lot of people avoid those types of servers

Honestly, while I'm not an RP'er, I support their right to play the game as they want, and I feel like the easiest solution would be what some people have stated in this thread and just ADD a RP tab in the PF. The devs could even have a banner at the top linking to a ToS/guideline pop-up for posting an ad there. So things like brothels and other dark mature themes are not overrunning the space where minors are expected to see them. (or you can filter them out by adding a mature tag, if that's feasible"

I honestly don't mind such things existing, as long as everyone's consensual and of age (no RMT of course), but I've noticed a decided uptick in /shout adds the last couple years to the point of it becoming spam in regards to SPECIFICALLY 18+ brothel style ERP. At least on Aether. /Shouting is way more annoying in my opinion than if you could just select an RP tab in the PF and see what's on there.

Like others here, I get that fellowship finder is supposed to be something for socializing and such, but I agree with the logic that if you want to grow your community/rp circle, the PF would be better on the account of just getting wayyy more traffic as a feature. It's the difference between being on a main street or a side street in a city and they deserve a spot on main just as much as any other community in the game. I still think 18+ is side street content though, given that this isn't an M rated game and there are under-aged players on main. (Just to continue the analogy, haha)

But yeah, give them a tab and make it clear what won't be tolerated on there for ToS purposes. People have enough agency to either click or avoid the tab if it's not relevant to them. If the devs are able to take it a step further, give an option to "mute" a tab on PF if a player absolutely doesn't want to see.

Content seller PFs advertising prestige content carries for gil/RMT/what-have-you are way worse imo and should be cracked down on much heavier than they currently are, period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jijifli

Sadly that screenshot is from 2016 (I've had connections with the FC before that got that, as it turns out, though not for a couple years), which means old ToS, which means New vague ToS nulled it.

---

Oh? I mean are all of those screenshots from 2016?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by go_erp_some_where_else

hopefully yoshi p addresses this and is ruthless against erp/rp in the game and kills it for good, fingers crossed for the next live letter:o

---

He has no problem with RP, see the last question in this interview ;
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiv...sic-1838148771

Quote:

---

Alexandra: This is a question on behalf of the game’s roleplaying community. Many players, who do not act as if they are the Warrior of Light, but rather pretend to be everyday adventurers, were excited to create stories that take place on the First but saw that the game’s narrative didn’t really allow travel for “normal” individuals to end up there. If players want to pretend their “normal” characters can travel to and play on the First, is that okay? (I promise this is a question that many of them eagerly await an answer to.)

Yoshida: Hrm… Personally, I see video games as something that gives you the freedom to play however you like. So, if you, the player, believe that you can travel to the First, then so be it, right?

We have yet to reveal everything about who the Warrior of Light is, and whether they are the only ones who are special. Furthermore, the definition of a “normal individual” seems a bit vague here, as well. I think the power to believe and the desire to persevere are the biggest elements that drive progress in an individual, and so if you believe that you as a character can go to the First, then wouldn’t that be enough? A life dictated by someone else is no fun anyhow, is it?

---

Nobody is forcing you to RP, there's nothing wrong with it, and if you have an issue with RP, maybe playing an MMORPG might not be the right choice ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DJAzure

Oh? I mean are all of those screenshots from 2016?

---

Nonononono. The new about it being OKAY ( Dorx ) is from 2016. Those OP's are, I assume, very very recent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Untimelydoom

This may be true but then advertising you are running the newest extreme and need members is exactly the same thing. Where do you draw the line?

---

Hardly.

A courtesan is, by definition, a prostitute it just sounds nicer. Advertising prostitution, regardless of format, is not something your average company wants to support.

Advertising for the latest Ex and looking for members isn't suggesting that for a sum of ingame money you will perform sexually gratuitous acts in exchange, even if your kink is beating up monsters. :) They're not the same at all.

Other than that, we're on the same side. Venues should be allowed to advertise in PF, regardless if they're tagging as SFW/NSFW/18+; if someone wants to crusade under a morality banner than they should call out the specific things that aren't acceptable as they might be pushing the limits, such as openly advertising court services.

Personally, I'd rather see the RMT'rs go and the various bots I enjoy at timed nodes all day long, some of which I reported two months ago before I realized no one cared.

I can get them wanting to separate out RP stuff from regular content, but in that case they ought to just add a new tab for RP and then leave Other for whatever else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnakhaSilver

Also noting: 18+ may not always be sex and brothels. I know a few murder mysteries I'd run that I'd keep 18+ just because they'll deal with heavy topics.

---

Right or there are Casino venues that due to the themes of gambling would want to be kept 18+ due to gambling themes. Heck even RP FC's might want to be 18+ because of the personal stories of that FC so will recruiting for your FC not be allowed on the PF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbram_2002

I feel like now is the time to set up a Discord server similar to Centurio Hunts or other servers. This would allow multiple venues to advertise outside of FF14 in one localized place. The more venues that join in on that server, the more visibility everyone would get.

It doesn't solve most of the issues presented where it feels like RP venues are being randomly and potentially unfairly targeted, but it would help create a place where the RP community could thrive and remain inside the boundaries of the TOS.

---

This is a decent idea, but it's also not an entirely fool-proof one, as some people just don't like using Discord past using vc for content. There are, at least on my DC, RP serverss up, but they sometimes cause drama because of what they allow and disallow. I know of a player who RPs who wasn't welcome at the main one because they wanted more adult themes (not all erp). This also makes it harder for people who only dabble in social activities like glamour contests and holiday parties to find them.