Scholar 5.0 Discussion

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Originally Posted by Kyumimi

Lucid Dreaming is not viable due to the 2 minute CD.

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Lucid Dreaming is a 1 minute cooldown now, it's completely viable.

If I'm understanding right, Selene has no unique traits from Eos? Like I don't see Fey Wind anymore.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

If I'm understanding right, Selene has no unique traits from Eos? Like I don't see Fey Wind anymore.

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They're basically just skins of each other right now. But they can't take them out because Selene does have a role to play in the SCH storyline.

After clearing Titania a few times I'm really wondering when or rather if we're going to see any increase in healing required to clear content. I would guess that even solo healing that wouldn't make use of your full healing kit. So what do you do most of the time if not spam Broil? The only time you get low in mana is when you have to scrape people off the floor or forget in the monotony that you have to use your MP refresh abilities. The unused aetherflow stacks are my personal favourite, thanks for that SE.


Being able to spread Adlo from yourself is a welcome QoL update. The increased focus on faerie abilities with aoe heal and the new summon Seraph is great imo, now we just need some content that makes use of all of this, perhaps even outside of savage.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

To see fairy's name:

Settings -> Character -> Control -> Target -> Untick "Disable targetting of pets and minions when in battle".

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WOOT< thank you

One of the things I always used as a metric was Adlo. At current gear levels for whatever content I was running, it was roughly a 10% shield. This is no longer the case. With Tanks running 111Kish HP my standard Adlo (440 weapon and gear) runs ~9500.

To me, it just seems really weak.

after getting to 80, my thoughts on SCH aren't that different.

-Seraph feels unimpactful. I feel like she should be around for longer to matter more. still a nice ability but i find myself pressing it just to use the skill more than not. Plus seraph's version of Fey Illum and Whispering Dawn are just... regular Whispering and Illumination. Nani?
-Recitation is still amazing.
-Sacred Soil is good now to burn often for the regen and fluff mitigation
-Energy Drain and/or Quickened Aetherflow please.
-remove the combat lock on aetherflow. "but muh pre-pull waiting" you can use recitation for a free excog now, so that's already one boon.
-DPS is pitiful. I miss being able to multi-dot on SCH. I still cannot believe all healers went this route instead of AST getting an AoE DoT.

!- Make the skills display what they do for the fairy, and not just "orders pet to use [X]." This is such a silly thing I dont even get what rationale went into this decision.

This was the only class I felt half-way decent at, as I'm not a hardcore gamer or anything. And they've ruined it for me with all these changes. I'd tried to make adjustments, but nothing I'm used to is there to use anymore, and since they have dungeons tied to the MSQ, I can't even progress through the story I just paid them for. Why would SE do this? I'm at the end of my rope here, just wanting to enjoy the lore and the tale and I can't get past the first dungeon of this expansion. Why would I spend money on further story content in a couple years when I can't even get to that point in the story now?

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Originally Posted by EledriOnline

This was the only class I felt half-way decent at, as I'm not a hardcore gamer or anything. And they've ruined it for me with all these changes. I'd tried to make adjustments, but nothing I'm used to is there to use anymore, and since they have dungeons tied to the MSQ, I can't even progress through the story I just paid them for. Why would SE do this? I'm at the end of my rope here, just wanting to enjoy the lore and the tale and I can't get past the first dungeon of this expansion. Why would I spend money on further story content in a couple years when I can't even get to that point in the story now?

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Have you tried using a Trust? If you are doing the MSQ for the first time then after the notice that the dungeon instance is open the Scions will be standing around with symbols over their heads. Click any of them and it opens the Trust window and you can do the dungeon with them. You can also practice it/your new skills by clicking on the Duty tab then Trust. You get to set the pace, and no one is angry if you wipe. I am using Trust to learn/relearn things on jobs as well as practice some of the new content.

Waiting to use Whispering Dawn and Fey illumination under the affect of Seraph really need to be buffed because right now they're the exact same thing. Seraph needs to be STRONG. It's supposed to be a capstone ability, but Dissipation was never really strong either.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Waiting to use Whispering Dawn and Fey illumination under the affect of Seraph really need to be buffed because right now they're the exact same thing. Seraph needs to be STRONG. It's supposed to be a capstone ability, but Dissipation was never really strong either.

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This is something people are doing? It doesn't need to do ultra mega hots when its already doing poor man succors and embraces that are more or less double the normal fairies version? I was under the impression that it would be more beneficial to cycle between Illumination and Seraph myself.

Started leveling SCH since my WHM will get exp fine with MSQ and oh my god, it's so CLUNKY. Everything about this class feels bad atm. I'm not even talking about the loss our DPS skills and how boring our DPS is because I used to play as an AST so...

The aetherflow only-in-combat is garbage, seriously, what's the point of it?
I hate that my fairy skills are tied to me and I can't use it while I'm casting other stuff (such as raise, broil, succor, etc), it feels really clunky and I don't feel like a healer with a pet anymore, the fairy is basically a glamour for me. Art of war is one of the ugliest skills this game has and doesn't really feel satisfying to spam.

So, I leveled my SCH to 80.
I did the MSQ as SMN, because honestly I would have been bored out of my mind spamming 2 buttons for the story quests.
I did do the dungeons and trials as a healer though. I cleared all available content, including the ex trials as a healer and my final verdict is: I will going DRK for this expansion.

Positive:
I really enjoyed our new skills. Recitation and Seraph are an awesome addition to our kit. In fact, the SCH healing-kit is stronger than ever before, even too strong one could argue.

Negative:
1. AF feels clunky!
Not only because it's only usable infight, but also because I have to either overheal or sit on my stacks because we are missing our ED dump.
2. Fairyskills: Not being able to use them while casting is annoying. On top of that they seem to be bugged when you try to use them consecutively (hope that will be fixed).
3. Healing requirements "surprisingly" haven't changed at all.
I found myself spamming broil ~90% of the time during ex trials. This is the one thing I feared most and I simply cannot accept.
4. The DPS: 12222222222222212222222...enough said.
To add insult to injury, the first role quest as a healer has you kill a high HP mob - so does the SCH job quest.

Healing on SCH is actually really fun, it is a shame that there is so little to heal.
Well, time for some breath of fresh air after healing since HW I guess. The other healer jobs just don't do it for me.
I did have my fun with SMN and DRK, so I will join the tank and DPS crowd for Shb. :p

I really am trying to focus on the positive; I love the shields we get especially with a solid crit, but that's where my love affair with scholar kinda dies.
I've made it work, because I really hope they fix it. I came from a different game and played WHM first but I didn't really like the mechanics,
Then I tried Scholar and its what kept me playing FF14- I loved the dynamic aspect of my DoTs to assist with dps while dropping shadow flare so often and healing, too- I loved feeling so useful and engaged.

Now I feel like I am either in panic because EoS keeps glitching or being lazy on me, and I am spamming Lucid Dreaming on CD,
but the whole Aetherflow only in combat really screws up the rhythm of healing.

I am super happy for WHM getting buffed and being meta, I honestly am but I am BAFFLED why the gibbled Scholar so much;
They should have given WHM the love it needed, and left us alone. I want my dps skills back so I can actually assist while healing.

Our AoE (art of war) honestly sucks, low dps, high manacost- at least if it was some sort of CC or it gave back MP in diminishing returns (to offset our mana regen nerf).

I'm forcing myself through SB because I payed for the stupid collectors thing, but I'm kinda bummed out.
And I don't feel its right to pigeon-hole us into other classes just because they screwed up- Its kinda crap that they would make a class, let people get used to it, then kill it.

/EndQQ

Can we get Alphinaud's Academician class instead?

I don't understand the issue with the "we spam Broil so much now" thing... didn't that happen already a ton in 3.0 and 4.0? I know that there were the other things like SF/dots but at the end of the day once those were on you just spammed Broil regardless. That's what WHM and AST had done after applying their dot(s) and it was never really an issue so why is it an issue here?

Hopefully they add something back though since it seems like they put WHM WAY up there so they could buff SCH/AST later appropriately after people had a chance to play it.

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

I don't understand the issue with the "we spam Broil so much now" thing... didn't that happen already a ton in 3.0 and 4.0? I know that there were the other things like SF/dots but at the end of the day once those were on you just spammed Broil regardless. That's what WHM and AST had done after applying their dot(s) and it was never really an issue so why is it an issue here?

Hopefully they add something back though since it seems like they put WHM WAY up there so they could buff SCH/AST later appropriately after people had a chance to play it.

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People had been asking for more engaging DPS gameplay on whm and ast. But at the very least ast had the card system to keep them busy alongside the meager dps rotation. Whm had nothing in comparison.

Sch has a bunch of dots and ED to weave. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but the result was something like ~30% fewer broil casts compared to now. Not so insignificant by itself, but the real difference is in APM which took a pretty big hit and the awkwardness of the weaving (or lack of). The class just feels sluggish and clunky compared to before.

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Originally Posted by Nujana

Positive:
I really enjoyed our new skills. Recitation and Seraph are an awesome addition to our kit. In fact, the SCH healing-kit is stronger than ever before, even too strong one could argue.

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Stronger, yes.

Too strong? Absolutely not.

The median scholar on EX trials right now averages 5,053.09 HPS, and the top parse (out of 38,917 parses) is at 9,211.76.
The median WHM on EX trials right now averages 5,207.57 HPS, and the top parse (out of 48,847 parses) is at 10,080.85.

On healing, the median scholar is objectively 3% worse than the median WHM, and the top scholar is 8% weaker than the top WHM in trials.
(Source: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...unt&dataset=50)

Of course, there's more than healing to look at, and also damage numbers to consider.

The median scholar on ex trials right now does 3,781.64 DPS, and the top parse is at 6,465.09 DPS.
The median WHM on ex trials right now does 4,406.84 DPS, and the top parse is at 8,233.47 DPS.

On DPS, the median scholar is 14% worse than the median WHM, and the top scholar is 21% worse than the top WHM in trials.

Granted, there is raid utility to consider, and that not accounted for in the above numbers would be in the form of Chain Stratagem for scholars, which provides 10% crit for 15s every 2m, if used on cooldown. Adjusting the numbers and assuming crit works in your favor (and RNG doesn't do what it does to you in this game), we can assume that SCH provide the party with an average additional crit of 1.25% at best. To the best of my knowledge, a critical hit provides roughly 45% extra damage when it happens. Assuming that there were always 1.25% additional critical hits due to the increased crit chance (again, not likely, but lets roll the numbers in the best light possible), this means that a scholar provides a party with a maximum additional rDPS of 0.5625%. The median group on the extreme trials does approximately 55,000 DPS, meaning the SCH raid utility is adding approximately 309.38 (rounded up) DPS, at the cost of doing 625.2 less personal DPS, a net loss to the raid of 315.82 DPS for bringing the SCH over another WHM, coupled with weaker heals and worse mana management and the clunkiness.

So, I wouldn't call our heals overpowered either.

Now, what if you don't do trials? Let's look at dungeons!

Median SCH DPS in endgame dungeons is 3713.20, vs. WHM at 5055.89 (26.6% worse).
Top SCH DPS in endgame dungeons is 8,116.75, vs. WHM at 10,143.33 (20% worse).
Median SCH healing in endgame dungeons is 3339.28, vs. AST at 3374.5 (1% worse) and WHM at 3416.71 (2.3% worse).
Top SCH healing in endgame dungeons is 4754.99, vs. AST at 5013.24 (5.2% worse) and WHM at 4648.39 (2% better).

I guess if you're only looking at healing in dungeons and assuming you are among the top 1% of players, SCH are slightly okay....but of course then AST are the gods of healing too.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

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Appreciate your effort with the number run downs.
To be fair I have not leveled WHM and AST to 80 yet, since I kinda lost interest in healing atm. So I did not really get a feeling for how SCH compares to the other two, while actually playing it.

I do not feel SCH is in any danger of getting kicked out of statics though. The rDPS gap is not big enough to go without the shields. I have to agree that WHM really is a powerhouse at the moment, but they are supposed to be the pure healer with big pDPS - but no utility. So they kind of did a good job on that.

The whole argument comes down to dev design choices really:
If they nerf WHM DPS, they will be the least desired healer -again, because utility and rDPS are always preferred once progress is throgh and healing requirements are not an issue.
If they make the other two healers too weak, they cannot compete, because WHM is better at everything. Make their utility too strong and WHM will be seated - again.
This issue will stay as long as they refuse to give WHM any kind of utility outside of muh big numbers.

I have a feeling that both SCH and AST might recieve a few small buffs in the coming balance patch. We'll have to wait and see.

On a personal note:
Buffing the potencies does not help eliminate the inherent issue of SCH right now which for me is - boredom.
They could buff my Broil potency to 500, (making SCH laughably OP) I would still not touch it, because they sucked the fun out of the job.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

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You can’t really compare a 5 ogcd healing kit with a 9 ogcd kit (+embrace) in the way you did. Especially not with the current content.

“Median/average” is also a bit tricky to handle because it’s often the result of people who haven’t optimized. You really need to go into higher tiers of play to see the job potential.

Anyways what I’m trying to say is that FFXIV is a game where optimized play means healing as little as possible. There’s little value in comparing players to see who parsed the highest HPS

The overall picture is however telling of how high current whm dps is.

I feel like Scholar’s performance particularly is hard to gauge through averages, because I think the recent changes have actually created a bigger skill gap between ‘average’ players and ‘top tier players’, at least in terms of healing efficiency and taking advantage of DPS openings.

It’ll be interesting to see how they decide to approach this. If they buff Scholar / Astrologian damage to White Mage’s levels healers will contributing huge amounts of damage to raids. If they need White Mage’s Damage, then what is it supposed to bring?

Also as an aside, I still it’s sad that performance in the ‘healer’ role is measured purely by DPS and how much healing you can get away with skipping. I feel like the devs intention was to have healers judged for more than just how much DPS they even, even if their intention didn’t match their actions

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Originally Posted by Nujana

On a personal note:
Buffing the potencies does not help eliminate the inherent issue of SCH right now which for me is - boredom.
They could buff my Broil potency to 500, (making SCH laughably OP) I would still not touch it, because they sucked the fun out of the job.

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Exactly this. I wish people would realize the issue with scholar right now isn't "muh deeps", its that we're not doing anything. Like, I'd be 100% okay if they cut broils potency in half if it meant I could have more dots and energy drain back. Scholar right now honestly feels like you could play it on an Atari controller. Most people just want to press more buttons, we dont want to be reduced go mindless 1 button spam.

Did anyone else have issues with the lvl 80 solo duty with Giott?
I found myself really wishing the shields showed for NPCs same as in the party list. It seemed like Giott wasn't getting the benefit of any shields, though I could see they were getting galvanize.
I have long wished that NPCs were added to the party bar in solo instances b/c targeting them using controller is a pain, unless you switch target filters, and even then can still take too long.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

Exactly this. I wish people would realize the issue with scholar right now isn't "muh deeps", its that we're not doing anything. Like, I'd be 100% okay if they cut broils potency in half if it meant I could have more dots and energy drain back. Scholar right now honestly feels like you could play it on an Atari controller. Most people just want to press more buttons, we dont want to be reduced go mindless 1 button spam.

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I remember back in Heavensward I used to rant to my friends (in trying to convince them to sign up) “I have 30 moves keybound and I use all of them!” Those were the days. Admittedly I haven’t levelled my SCH to 80 yet, but it feels so hollow now. WHM feels a little better, and I think I’ll be switching to that for this expansion (pending further updates to healing). Lilies seem much less clunky than Aetherflow, and small things like weaving assize into your rotation, and actually having dps utility in the form of a stun, make it feel slightly better. Plus, you can use presence of mind as a dps spam or a heal spam, which represents an actual decision.

I think the thing that bothers me most about these changes is the stripping back of decisions. Cleric stance used to do that really well. You want to dps? Well, you’ve got to commit to it, because being in it at the wrong time can cost you. Energy drain, too. If you use that Aetherflow stack for some dps and mana, that’s one stack that’s not available for healing. Giving us choices like that allow us to actually think about what we’re doing, rather than just learning how to optimise our healing then spamming broil.

(Admittedly, there’s still some decision making. If I put up this sacred soil now, I won’t have an emergency lustrate up my sleeve, etc. But given the way Aetherflow stacks are working at the moment worrying about running out doesn’t really seem like a thing)

Also, what they did to Selene is just insulting.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

You can’t really compare a 5 ogcd healing kit with a 9 ogcd kit (+embrace) in the way you did. Especially not with the current content.

“Median/average” is also a bit tricky to handle because it’s often the result of people who haven’t optimized. You really need to go into higher tiers of play to see the job potential.

Anyways what I’m trying to say is that FFXIV is a game where optimized play means healing as little as possible. There’s little value in comparing players to see who parsed the highest HPS

The overall picture is however telling of how high current whm dps is.

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Originally Posted by Connor

I feel like Scholar’s performance particularly is hard to gauge through averages, because I think the recent changes have actually created a bigger skill gap between ‘average’ players and ‘top tier players’, at least in terms of healing efficiency and taking advantage of DPS openings.

It’ll be interesting to see how they decide to approach this. If they buff Scholar / Astrologian damage to White Mage’s levels healers will contributing huge amounts of damage to raids. If they need White Mage’s Damage, then what is it supposed to bring?

Also as an aside, I still it’s sad that performance in the ‘healer’ role is measured purely by DPS and how much healing you can get away with skipping. I feel like the devs intention was to have healers judged for more than just how much DPS they even, even if their intention didn’t match their actions

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That's why I also included 99% comparisons, where the differences are MORE stark and contrast than at the median.

Fine, you can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 14% worse at DPS, you need to look at the top"...and I'll remind you...the top is 21% worse at DPS.
You can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 3% worse at healing, you need to look at the top"...and I"ll remind you...the top is 8% worse at healing.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

That's why I also included 99% comparisons, where the differences are MORE stark and contrast than at the median.

Fine, you can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 14% worse at DPS, you need to look at the top"...and I'll remind you...the top is 21% worse at DPS.
You can say "it's not a good comparison to say that the median is 3% worse at healing, you need to look at the top"...and I"ll remind you...the top is 8% worse at healing.

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The SCH healing kit is strong because of its versatility, not because of raw numbers.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

I remember back in Heavensward I used to rant to my friends (in trying to convince them to sign up) “I have 30 moves keybound and I use all of them!” Those were the days. Admittedly I haven’t levelled my SCH to 80 yet, but it feels so hollow now. WHM feels a little better, and I think I’ll be switching to that for this expansion (pending further updates to healing). Lilies seem much less clunky than Aetherflow, and small things like weaving assize into your rotation, and actually having dps utility in the form of a stun, make it feel slightly better. Plus, you can use presence of mind as a dps spam or a heal spam, which represents an actual decision.

I think the thing that bothers me most about these changes is the stripping back of decisions. Cleric stance used to do that really well. You want to dps? Well, you’ve got to commit to it, because being in it at the wrong time can cost you. Energy drain, too. If you use that Aetherflow stack for some dps and mana, that’s one stack that’s not available for healing. Giving us choices like that allow us to actually think about what we’re doing, rather than just learning how to optimise our healing then spamming broil.

(Admittedly, there’s still some decision making. If I put up this sacred soil now, I won’t have an emergency lustrate up my sleeve, etc. But given the way Aetherflow stacks are working at the moment worrying about running out doesn’t really seem like a thing)

Also, what they did to Selene is just insulting.

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What they did with Selene was the very definition of lazy. To think they actually have the nerve to say that they spent extra time on the healers. Their solution to balancing was so terrible, even to this day I am mystified. Like they took the healer with the easiest and lowest APM (in terms of DPS) rotation and copied and pasted it across the entire role and called it balanced.

This would be like if Square copied and pasted Black Mage's rotation onto every magical DPS, made them within 30 potency of each other and called it balanced. How come SMN gets three unique egi? Why not give them a base egi and simply have Titan, Garuda and Ifrit be a glamour?

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

The SCH healing kit is strong because of its versatility, not because of raw numbers.

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Thing is, it's not THAT versatile, really.

Sure, WD can be cast while moving, but loses the initial heal of MedicaII and has less potency after the pet tax and also has a 60s cooldown and also requires a fairy to be active and not doing something else and risks being lost to animations due to some recent bugs. (Both are now on the GCD, FYI.)

Lustrate is basically Afflatus Solace with 100 less potency and sharing resources with SS and Excog, rather than just Indom (Afflatus Rapture).

Indom is basically Afflatus Rapture with 100 more potency but sharing resources with SS and Excog, rather than just Lustrate (Afflatus Solace).

SS is arguably stronger than Asylum (10% dmg reduction instead of 10% bonus healing received), but comes with a shorter duration and shares resources with Lustrate and Indom and SS.

Excog is a slightly more powerful Tetra that you precast instaed....but comes at the cost of sharing resources with Lustrate and Indom and SS.

Aetherpact is a more powerful Regen, but comes at the cost of burning resources that require Aetherflow charges that you only generate by using the above abilities while Eos or Selene (not Seraph) are available and in combat and in range. (If any of those aren't true, using Aetherflow abilities does not built Aetherpact ability)....oh, and it can also only be on one target at a time and prevents that fairy from doing ANYTHING else while active.

Aetherflow is like part of an Assize that doesn't do damage and doesn't cure party members but restores a bit more MP and has a longer cooldown and activates the SCH equivalent of the Lily gauge that WHM don't need to do anything to activate....oh, and it can also only be used in combat, too.

Adlo is a potentially slightly more powerful Divine Benison that has less of a cooldown but requires a cast time and is weaker if not timed properly, or a less powerful Cure II that doesn't have a Freecure buff but can be cast a bit earlier.

Physick is literally a less powerful Cure that also doesn't have the chance to make Cure II free.

Succor is a potentially slightly more powerful Medica that is weaker if not timed properly, or a much weaker Cure III with a wider range.

Fey Illumination is a less powerful Temperance, unless Seraph is out, in which case it's still a less powerful Temperance.

Fey Blessing is basically Plenary Indulgence except for cast later, and costs Aetherflow, and requires the correct fairy out.

Dissipation makes SCH heals kinda like WHM heals somewhat for a bit in potency, but at the cost of no fairy (read: no gauge buildilng) and provides a bit more access to the pull of shared abilities, but on a 3m cooldown.

Seraph is a 2m cooldown that makes fairy healing almost as strong as a regen with some minor shields and enables two basically free succors within a roughly 15s timeframe (after accounting for animations)...so it's kinda like a weaker Presence of Mind, perhaps?...of course without any DPS utilization if raw healing isn't needed.

Emergency tactics basically converts the shields into raw healing, making them more like traditional WHM heals, but on a 15s cooldown.

Recitation is basically Thin Air but only for healing abilities, and (i'll have to check back again tonight, but IIRC also only works for one cast)

[Does not exist] is like Benediction.

There's a reason the raw numbers are higher, and it's quite arguable to say that it's because of WHM versatility.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

What they did with Selene was the very definition of lazy. To think they actually have the nerve to say that they spent extra time on the healers. Their solution to balancing was so terrible, even to this day I am mystified. Like they took the healer with the easiest and lowest APM (in terms of DPS) rotation and copied and pasted it across the entire role and called it balanced.

This would be like if Square copied and pasted Black Mage's rotation onto every magical DPS, made them within 30 potency of each other and called it balanced. How come SMN gets three unique egi? Why not give them a base egi and simply have Titan, Garuda and Ifrit be a glamour?

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I would imagine that summoners still have 3 unique egi (which each have 3 moves plus the autoattack) for the same reason that they’re balancing the number of melee DPS, ranged physical DPS, and magical DPS jobs, when I haven’t heard any plans to buff out the completely empty categories of melee healer and physical ranged healer.

Also, on the topic of summoners, since scholar loses almost everything from arcanist, running low level content on a scholar is now pretty much a bio/ruin spam. The fairy can pretty much manage the healing on its own at that level, so you don’t have much else to do. If they wanted to differentiate us from summoners they could at least replace the 5 moves we lose with more than the one new move we get. I can only imagine it must be a pretty lousy feeling for a new summoner to finish their level 30 arcanist quest to get bane only to lose it as soon as they finish their level 30 scholar quest and equip their job stone.

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Originally Posted by Hatstand

I would imagine that summoners still have 3 unique egi (which each have 3 moves plus the autoattack) for the same reason that they’re balancing the number of melee DPS, ranged physical DPS, and magical DPS jobs, when I haven’t heard any plans to buff out the completely empty categories of melee healer and physical ranged healer.

Also, on the topic of summoners, since scholar loses almost everything from arcanist, running low level content on a scholar is now pretty much a bio/ruin spam. The fairy can pretty much manage the healing on its own at that level, so you don’t have much else to do. If they wanted to differentiate us from summoners they could at least replace the 5 moves we lose with more than the one new move we get. I can only imagine it must be a pretty lousy feeling for a new summoner to finish their level 30 arcanist quest to get bane only to lose it as soon as they finish their level 30 scholar quest and equip their job stone.

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Uh, not to disillusion you, but running any content as Scholar is Biolysis/Broil 2 spam. This isn't going to change in Savage, nor will it change in Ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Uh, not to disillusion you, but running any content as Scholar is Biolysis/Broil 2 spam. This isn't going to change in Savage, nor will it change in Ultimate.

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Depressing, but not surprising. Reading over the skills I’m due to get leveling up isn’t exactly inspiring at the moment. I hope that SE gets the message that they need to do something to fix this. And that that something will involve giving scholars more non-healing buttons to press. And I hope that we, as players, won’t let them move the goalposts to the point that we’ll praise them for returning just a portion of what they gutted from us (say, just energy drain).

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

Thing is, it's not THAT versatile, really.

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There's a reason the raw numbers are higher, and it's quite arguable to say that it's because of WHM versatility.

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The raw numbers are higher because the raw numbers are higher. They have nothing to do with versatility.

The rest is just olympic level mental gymnastics in an attempt to compare abilities one to one. You're comparing a GCD (Solace) with an OGCD (Lustrate) and saying they're "basically" similar, lol.

First of all, some corrections: WD is not on the GCD, it is an OGCD. Fey Blessing does not cost aetherflow, neither does Aetherpact. They are byproducts of using your Aetherflow stacks.

Versatility means SCH has an answer to everything:
- Need direct heals? Indom, Fey Blessing, Seraph
- Need regen? WD, Soil
- Need mitigation? Shields, Soil, Seraph
All you need to do is look at how SCH heals. Everything SCH uses regularly is on the OGCD, with the exception of Succor.

Not only that, but since Glare is higher potency than Broil III, WHM pays a bigger cost for every GCD used.

Assize does not even count because it's a DPS cooldown. Perhaps they should remove the damage portion of it.

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Originally Posted by LariaKirin

Fey Blessing does not cost aetherflow, neither does Aetherpact. They are byproducts of using your Aetherflow stacks.

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They require usage of Aetherflow abilities at specific times (in particular when not using Seraph or Dissipation and with the fairy in range and in combat)...unless you have a way to use them without ever using Aetherflow ever, stop being dishonest.

As for the rest of what you said, technically being oGCD doesn't matter when you're limited to 3 Aetherflow/minute and those abilities being for the most part tied to that. There's also a reason that SCH and AST are the most dissatisfied jobs in the game right now, unless you're a special snowflake that just knows more than everybody else.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

They require usage of Aetherflow abilities at specific times (in particular when not using Seraph or Dissipation and with the fairy in range and in combat)...unless you have a way to use them without ever using Aetherflow ever, stop being dishonest.

As for the rest of what you said, technically being oGCD doesn't matter when you're limited to 3 Aetherflow/minute and those abilities being for the most part tied to that. There's also a reason that SCH and AST are the most dissatisfied jobs in the game right now, unless you're a special snowflake that just knows more than everybody else.

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They require usage of Aetherflow stacks at some point, yes - which you would use anyway, even if you never intended to use the Fairy Gauge abilities - which is why I called them byproducts of using Aetherflow stacks. The rest of your statement is never a problem.

Being OGCD matters a whole lot. Groups that care about optimization solo heal with the SCH and let the WHM spam dps abilities because the SCH kit is more effective, efficient and versatile and does not sacrifice GCDs.

Lastly, SCH players are dissatisfied because we have to use Aetherflow on these healing abilities and there are times where you just have nothing to use them on. The most asked for change right now is something akin to Energy Drain, for the purpose of dumping excess Aetherflow.

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Originally Posted by galbsadi

<snip>

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Having not mained a healer for endgame content since second coil of bahamut, I may just not be understanding things; but wouldn't HPS go down the better the party is due to their being less damage taken that needs to be healed? I'm also unclear on if HPS parsing takes into the calculation the amount of damage prevented by shields. If it doesn't add that into the HPS calculation, wouldn't that mean lower HPS from Scholar because their shields mean less healing required?

You know I was thinking today about Eos and Selene. Maybe if SE gave them identity back it would help make the job interesting? Where Eos heals, Selene would do the opposite.

Whisper Dawn <--> Chattering Dusk : Applies a AoE DoT
Fey Illumination <--> Fae Obscure : Debuff that lower the damage dealt by a target
Fey Union <--> Fae Discord : Single Target DoT that uses Fairy Gauge
Fey Blessing <--> Fae Curse : 5% of damage dealt is returned back to target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

You know I was thinking today about Eos and Selene. Maybe if SE gave them identity back it would help make the job interesting? Where Eos heals, Selene would do the opposite.

Whisper Dawn <--> Chattering Dusk : Applies a AoE DoT
Fey Illumination <--> Fae Obscure : Debuff that lower the damage dealt by a target
Fey Union <--> Fae Discord : Single Target DoT that uses Fairy Gauge
Fey Blessing <--> Fae Curse : 5% of damage dealt is returned back to target.

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That's the kind of thing I'd love to see. I'm more in favor of support skills like the silence and reduced damage from the target, Virus style, on Selene and rather see sch itself get more interesting damage options.

Also had the idea of returning the skills to Eos and Selene's hotbars as they were and make Fey Union a "Dark Arts" that cost Fey Gauge and gave the Fairy skills either augumented, gave additonal or did different effects that the originals.

As a scholar main I do miss having two different faeries to choose from, one healed and one did a buff and helped be an extra status remover :3 In other words I miss having the choice of choosing my fairy for the fights my party would be involved in. There were choices and now they just seemed like they were taken away.

The heals are nice, like always our burst heals are lovely but...I don't really like the restriction of having to be in combat or have to heal to activate my aetherflow. Usually I always cast a adlo on the tank before the fight begins, so it's not a big deal ,however, again the freedom restriction seems to weigh heavy. Maybe I'm being a baby about it too, I dunno ;)

I understand that the Dev team wants healers to heal but they shouldn't work so hard to rip out the class roots that made it unique. I'm not saying I hate all the changes to the class it just feels like Scholar got grounded and not allowed to play outside. :p

At least give us energy drain and bane back those were actually useful. Mp replenish and a dot spreader to save on mp. They're quick and take no time at all away from healing.

p.s
taking away protect and eye for an eye seemed silly, of course we have to heal more if you take away helpful shields :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YanderePrincess

Having not mained a healer for endgame content since second coil of bahamut, I may just not be understanding things; but wouldn't HPS go down the better the party is due to their being less damage taken that needs to be healed? I'm also unclear on if HPS parsing takes into the calculation the amount of damage prevented by shields. If it doesn't add that into the HPS calculation, wouldn't that mean lower HPS from Scholar because their shields mean less healing required?

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It would, and that's where you'd start to see higher DPS numbers, where SCH is also objectively worse off.

As for shields, I believe those are included in HPS numbers.

I'm really getting sick and tired of false fairy tooltips. If they are indeed 2/3 potency, then dammit show them as their ACTUAL potency so we know how to plan accordingly.

And stop with the "Perform Whispering Dawn" tooltips (goes for other jobs too). Detailed tooltips are better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kestlona

p.s
taking away protect and eye for an eye seemed silly, of course we have to heal more if you take away helpful shields :rolleyes:

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They took away Largesse and Convalescence which created great tank / healer synergy, Eye for an Eye which was valuable on trash packs despite it's naysayers (yeah it sucked in ex's / savages but so did other abilities)

And protect did more than they admit. Yes it mainly affected tanks, but it was 10% less aoe damage healers had to heal.

The SE dev's basically said, "We want you to heal, and we're taking away all the smart tools that give you breathing room and we're capping your mana".