What's the difference between going to a roulette and getting Halatali, and going into Halatali as a BLU in a premade party?
It's the same content, so why is one taboo and the other one is alright?
1) roulettes are fast and pre-mades are annoying when the rewards are not worth the time. i'll do premades to climb to 100 in HoH, but i'm not doing pre-mades to get the HoH checkbox for WT.
2) leveling roulette gets me tomes for any of my jobs. doing it with BLU only benefits BLU.
i so very rarely do leveling roulettes as it is since all of my jobs are capped. i only do it to help people which is rare.
and Halatali is barely alright, i pray to get more interesting things like HW/SB leveling dungeons none of which BLU can do.
One option gives a reward that is relevant to end game (tomes) or gets a job closer towards end game (xp). The other option of doing Halatali as a BLU gives xp to a dead end job that cannot be used in any relevant content. It can't be used in roulettes, normal or hard mode raids and trials, Centurio Seal hunts, Aquapolis/Uznair maps, new beast tribe quests, HoH, Eureka or the next part of Main Scenario. Those are things people can take their alts to whenever they want to accomplish something of value while they enjoy different kinds of gameplay. Alt jobs are useless if they can't be used to progress your character.
We can already go solo a bunch of open world mobs and unsync dungeons for no reward. No one does it because it's not fun or worth it, regardless of job.
you're going to tell a legacy player who has never been unsubbed who has capped every job that this is the wrong genre for me? really?
you read that quote and you think you didn't get me wrong? explain to me how i like leveling dungeons in HW if age is the only thing that matters?
stop making bogus assumptions. your assessment of FFXIV is also very wrong, they don't try very hard to keep old content relevant.
you're harping on the wrong thing, BLU's problem isn't that it can be played in "old content", BLU's problem is that it CAN NOT be played in CURRENT content.
NIN, DRK, AST, MCH, SAM, RDM all could be played in Halatali during release. the problem with BLU is that you can't play it in Ivalice or the MSQ that's going to be released in the next patch.
bearable is not gladly or enjoyable. it's bearable to a lot of people because it serves other purposes which BLU will not have.
it's not a non-issue because by the time BLU gets the cap raised to 70, the "MSQ that's going to be released in the next patch" will need players to be Level 80 to do it.
By that point, you'll have 17 jobs to run current content with. But apparently people hear BLU and suddenly all other jobs are deleted...
Also, really? Defecating semantics? Compared to using "But I always wanted to main a job I was never sure was coming to the game" as if it's a reasonable argument? Talk about temporal paradoxes.
1. It shows intent from the devs. We don't like this direction.
2. If they suddenly erase BLM from the game, I won't pick up NIN. I'll pick up another game. People wanted to play BLU, they wanted to main BLU. In the face of that fact, the existence of other jobs is irrelevant.
With all due respect, so does your post. It barely relates to what you quoted nor does it matter in the least.
People have been asking for BLU for a long time. They did not ask BLU so it will be a glorified mini-game. That is what we ended up getting. They're allowed to voice their discontent with this.
1. Playerbase hasn't always been reliable on giving feedback. Diadem 280 weapon crisis is a strong example of that.
2. Changing an existing class is a whole different matter from introducing a class in a way some people might not like. SE hasn't promised nor do they owe people BLU to people who want to main BLU in the way they'd prefer. The other classes still exist and people can still play the game with them. Acting otherwise just undermines their cause, because it seems they're arguing solely from preference or emotion, but also that BLU is a crucial part of the game when it hasn't existed for 5 years and the game is arguably fine. Also player preference doesn't mean it's alright to demean the work of the devs on the remaining classes, which is what's people seem to be implying ("once I got my BLU, screw the rest of the classes. Waste of good development time").
Citation required.
So far, people defending this seem to have an unhealthy amount of assuming things the devs have given basically opposite statements to, and villifying the people who aren't happy with this. :\
No, the devs never promised anything about BLU. So? "Thanks, we hate it" is still a legitimate form of feedback and the sooner they get the chance to hear it, the better, because it improves the chances of them changing it even if by a bit.
But it IS a minigame. It's side content that can interact with a limited amount of the main game.
And we've finally come to this level of debate. Good talk y'all, glad we had it.Quote:
Claiming it's a minigame just to justify invalid "but I wanted to main a class I was never promised I could main with" lol
You're going to a costume party this week. You're hoping that this store has the costume you want in stock then you find out that it does. You get really excited but then find out that the host of the party has a problem with your costume for silly reasons. You can still go to the party and have fun in another costume but you probably would have enjoyed yourself more if you were allowed to go in the costume you wanted.
I've seen no one say that they want to main blue AND then drop all other jobs. We can like the other jobs still and have them as our alts.
So Lords of Verminion is endgame now?
Well, I apologize to anyone whom I might have offended or been a jerk to.
Got a bit carried away, so it's best if I stop discussing this theme altogether.
Always has. Does the new content interact with the surrounding, relevant content? Does it teach lessons towards the surrounding, relevant content? Does it help progress you towards the surrounding, relevant content? If not, it is something outside the game. And if the content itself, in its portions relevant at a particular time, is vastly smaller than what all is relevant at the same time for the surrounding game it is excluded from, then a "mini"-game is a rather apt description.
If they took BLM, renamed it's skills and changed the animations, along with making it not a turret, boom there is your blue mage that you want so badly.
I don't think demanding a glorified pallet swap is the best plan.
If you don't want me to point out how stupid it is to talk so much about "old content" when you don't take into account the new experience it can provide, then don't bring it up? Because yes, caring more about the age of the content and not the interactions we can have with it is dumb in a MMORPG.
And you claiming to be a legacy player adds even more weight to my claim. You should be the one to know about how MMORPG, especially FFXIV, does recycle old content. So if you're not happy with them doing that, I have all the rights to call you on how backwards it looks since you've been playing it for so long.
The content itself isn't providing a new experience. The job is. Any job you haven't played before can provide a new experience, so let's not attribute this phenomena to the introduction of BLU alone.
And just because they recycle some content doesn't mean we all participate in it or accept it as anything more than a "means to an end". Yes, anybody leveling a new job is going to have to slog through old content. That's not the argument.
At the end of the day I'm not sure it matters anymore, we didn't need a 4th caster competing for a spot in raid groups or clogging up DF queues anyways. Have fun enjoying your little monster-hunting side quests.
You cannot learn new abilities from monsters without said monsters. That's why I also used the word "interactions". While they indeed didn't change the content, BLU will not interact with it in a way we've experienced before.
So of course it's thanks to BLU. But that wasn't my point. Giving new ways of experiencing the content and providing new incentives was. And that's what Limited BLU does, on a far greater scale than "any job you haven't played before".
If you've ever did a single Roulette, you've participated in doing "old content". The only players who only experience "new content" are the one who subscribe only to do newly released content from a patch and then quit while waiting for the next patch to hit. I don't actually know how much players of this type are represented in the community, so I will not say anything about a potential number.
But I'm pretty sure you weren't talking specifically about these players. So I think I can still make that generalization by saying: if you play a MMORPG on a daily/weekly basis, most of what you do is old/recycled content. That's pretty much the nature of that genre.
Trust me I will. I wouldn't if it was a 4th generic mage with a "Blue Mage" label slapped on it.
I don't. Pretty much just raid logging at this point because it's about the only interesting thing this game has left to offer. BLU doesn't change anything for me personally. There are plenty of other games to enjoy if I'm looking for a casual RNG grind or solo play. The raiding experience is what sets FFXIV apart from other games, so that's what I'm here for, and that's why I'm disappointed in the concept of Limited Jobs.
I don't think that's much different from getting a job that is 2 parts 2 year old content one part new content that REQUIRES you to do 2 year old content, to actually be effective at it, and to top it all off is...well level 50.
So yes, I'd rather be able to do all of the new content that will be coming in Shadowbringer as a job that I love, instead of being stuck doing "new" 2 year old level 50 content which is essentially just atma farming.
They already did that though for blue mage. It will use reskinned abilities and spells but play by different rules inside of the Carnival. So don't act like we got something different for the larger game.
There have been a lot of ideas, concepts, and write ups for how blue mage could be different than the other jobs we already have. To act like there is no way to make blue mage feel different than the other jobs is incredibly disingenuous or you decided to not read the threads and posts to continue this misconception that there is no way.
Seriously! I dunno if people just have zero faith in the Dev team to deliver a new design, or truly think that the entirety of magic damage dealer design space has been completely explored by SMN, BLM, and RDM. Other games have far more than 3 caster playstyles and somehow manage to retain uniqueness and class identity. This isn't a reason Blue Mage can't work.