How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

If the gatekeeper has several mechanics from the following raid tier, then you're actually preparing people for them ahead of time, because if you can execute them on the gatekeeper, you can execute them on the raids themselves.

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then why do you need the gatekeeper? Generally it has to be a lesser or different check, or then the fight is just a formality. It also has to be hard n itself. I also don't think knowledge transfers over as much, each fight will always be unique even if the base mechanics are borrowed.

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It's no big deal for the person being carried. After all, they're not the ones making an effort to compensate for the person not giving their all in the fight. If such a person was in one of those statics that prioritize loot based on necessity and performance, it would take a while till that person got ahold of a gear piece

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You compensate for each other. You don't view people like that, you invest in them. If you view them as burdens, well guess what, one day its your turn to be viewed as one because you suck at a particular fight this time, or your job is unoptimal, or new guy is better than you.

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You also have people complaining that a MSQ fight easier than most dungeon bosses is too hard, so it's not like it's just one side at fault here. Plus that's on SE to fix, not people to endure.

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The people who complain about those legitimately have problems with the game that story fights are all they can do. And the complaint is about unexpected difficulty. And the sheer griping about others who are lesser skilled gets old considering how little they affect you.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

then why do you need the gatekeeper? Generally it has to be a lesser or different check, or then the fight is just a formality.

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Pretty sure the answer to this was said a page or two ago. To check to see if you are skilled enough to clear it and be ready for the next fight. If a player isn't skilled enough to clear the gatekeeper, then they have no business whatsoever going into the last fight. Currently, V11N is a great gatekeeper. If, after a few pulls and learning the mechanics, you are not skilled enough to deal with Larboard/Starboard, dealing with the Duty Action, and dropping your puddles while avoiding Flamethrower or a Rocket Punch, then you need to work on that, and generally have no business touching higher skill tiers, which would be Savage.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You can lie on the floor for all of it, pass it, and then get savage after beating 12. So no, it isn't. The larboard thing can even be ignored with the right classes; i can soak both hits as healer because i have 44k hp and just heal myself in between hits; the 2 def down stacks wont kill you unless you mess up far easier mechanics. A gatekeeper will be much harder than that, though.

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Gonna add this in, even though I hit my post limit. If a player cannot comfortably dodge larboard/starboard, dies to it in conditions where the boss isn't being moved around, and then tell themselves that they are good enough to move on to a stronger fight, then that player is a detriment to their party, and likely candidates to be carried. Players are still getting killed by that mechanic, even with reminders being sent. Players are still getting hit by the rocket punch. Players who have run this fight multiple times, and still are not able to avoid dying in good conditions - dying due to their own failure to successfully complete mechanics.

The point is not to survive - the point is that if, in good conditions, you cannot stop dying to things like this, then you as a player (not you in particular Riyah) are a problem if you move into Savage with comfort that you survived. You've seen some of the threads - some players can't avoid dying to it, even with the solutions being explained to them (associate Larboard with boss attacking its left side). I wasn't here for HW's launches, but I was definitely here when Shinryu mopped the floor with complacent players. I was here when Tsuku stepped on some players who were used to being carried. You can't say gatekeepers will be stronger than that, when you have a history of not wanting harder content in the game.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Currently, V11N is a great gatekeeper.

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You can lie on the floor for all of it, pass it, and then get savage after beating 12. So no, it isn't. The larboard thing can even be ignored with the right classes; i can soak both hits as healer because i have 44k hp and just heal myself in between hits; the 2 def down stacks wont kill you unless you mess up far easier mechanics. A gatekeeper will be much harder than that, though.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You can lie on the floor for all of it, pass it, and then get savage after beating 12. So no, it isn't. The larboard thing can even be ignored with the right classes; i can soak both hits as healer because i have 44k hp and just heal myself in between hits; the 2 def down stacks wont kill you unless you mess up far easier mechanics. A gatekeeper will be much harder than that, though.

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So are we talking about finding a way to not stop people being able to go into content they don't have the skill for, or people going into content they know fully well they don't master but still going anyway? Otherwise why would someone attempt to go into Savage if they don't know how to deal with O11?

Not to mention there are people complaining of being unable to actually clear O11 due to bad performance of mostly the whole party.

While its anecdotal, for the most part I dont really raid, a main reason is my hesitation at entering content that I dont really feel ready for. I've parsed myself a few times and have always been struck at how easy it is to lose a lot of numbers to easy mistakes and fat fingering buttons. While it can be very jarring to see at first, it did help me focus since it gave me a numerical representation of performance. I could see a direct connection between missed mechanics in simple fights and dropped DPS. I know that there are people who like to use this feature to lord it over others. But I dont see anything but a tool for reflection when we talk about a personal, private number.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

So are we talking about finding a way to not stop people being able to go into content they don't have the skill for

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I think essentially a solo ex fight. You want it solo so you can't be carried, and ex fight because a dummy isn't enough and you need mechanics that oneshot you. if 011n was a gatekeeper so was a12n; the last alex fight even on normal was a bit of a difficulty spike back then.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You can lie on the floor for all of it, pass it, and then get savage after beating 12. So no, it isn't. The larboard thing can even be ignored with the right classes; i can soak both hits as healer because i have 44k hp and just heal myself in between hits; the 2 def down stacks wont kill you unless you mess up far easier mechanics. A gatekeeper will be much harder than that, though.

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Nope, a gatekeeper would be in that difficulty, just you were solo and it would be different for each role or job, so vuln stack but a 100% healing negotiation for healers.

You already have it: Stone, Sky, Sea.
If you pass it, your stats and rotation are enough for the fight. Too bad too much people even ignore its existence.

A stationary target that does literally nothing and can be cheesed by having a chocobo companion out does nothing, but okay.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

have you ever played WoW? unless you want the FF14 community to turn toxic the last thing this game needs is a dps meter

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Because the community is so totally not toxic already.

Great community btw.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

You already have it: Stone, Sky, Sea.
If you pass it, your stats and rotation are enough for the fight. Too bad too much people even ignore its existence.

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It's not a gatekeeper to the fight though, if you're hoping to add to that discussion. Its not a good alternative to a parser either. It's a good 3 minute rotational learning tool, but it's not much else.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

this is more about the people who can do the content, but would take longer. You're delaying them further by the gatekeeper. It's sort of an extra penalty on those who might be willing to try it. If it takes long enough, you may just end up not completing a raid tier when its useful because you still need to go through the static/pug rigamarole, but it's worse since the keeper sorts out all the other players by then; they have it on farm, you are just starting.

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They are only delayed from joining parties they are not yet ready for. Whether this comes in the form of users demanding certain parse numbers, a Faust-esque equivalent or something else is irrelevant. If you aren't able to overcome this obstacle, you aren't ready. Removing said obstacle doesn't magically make those players able to approach the content. They're simply joining groups who will be none to happy by their poor performance. Regardless, this hypothetically serves no purpose to a parse discussion since parses don't really act as a "gatekeeper".

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

..and honestly, the carry thing gets old. If the dude tries and fails, and people manage to win, the proper response is not "lol, carry" but "let's do it again and work on it some more." And this game you lose nothing...imagine in games where just to do savage, you needed a 10 million gil pop item, or to farm a mob for four hours for a pop, and people still didnt complain about carries as much as here. Most of the problem here is people are too selfish and too lazy to form actual raiding statics or guilds or to teach or mentor players; they just expect everyone to do it right first time or its a carry. They have no patience, no empathy, and despite this game being the friendliest endgame in any mmo with its time burden they treat it like you just cost them a year of effort if something happens.

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You know what gets really old? When I clearly label my PF "farm" and get someone who has utterly no idea what half the mechanics are, dies repeatedly and/or does comparable damage to a tank. The proper response is to not be an inconsiderate jerk. Why is it okay for you to join farm parties when you aren't capable of performing a decent rotation. We're not talking about a mistake here or there. Those happen to the best of us. We're taking about people who show little to no desire to improve yet expect everyone else to do the work. What do I lose? My time. Dog farms necessitate no less than 99 runs; more if you don't want to wait six months. Even if a minute is added because of consistent mistakes from one or two people, that means an extra Suzaku every 8-10 clears. In the end, I'll have added anywhere from ten to fifteen more runs, assuming I don't get a lucky roll all because someone couldn't be bothered to put in the effort to improve themselves before joining. I find hilariously ironic you accuse people unwilling to carry as being selfish yet don't apply that logic to the person expecting everyone else to compensate for their own laziness. Who's actually lazy in a scenario where the Warrior is out-DPSing a Samurai despite both having roughly equivalent ilvls?

Putting that aside, if I wanted to teach you how to do the fight, I would be in a learning party. The whole reason we have such a distinction is because people have already progressed beyond a certain point and want to progress further, not spending another hour or however longer teaching someone else. In the case of a farm party, you should know the whole fight. That is what farm parties are; farming the content. Not teaching someone mechanics they should already know. Do some people overreact in a learning party? Sure, but you're being deliberately hyperbolic like usually. I purposely used a farm party per my example, thus this shouldn't be your first time.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

I mean, this is the game where players complain if you watch a 3 min cinematic before a trial. Literally had someone gripe about cape westwind cs and told the person to watch it in the in.

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And? Some people are jerks. Welcome to life. A parse or "gatekeeper" isn't going to change that evident by the fact despite parsing technically being against the tos, people are still jerks. Therefore, the parse isn't impacting it. People with a shitty attitude will have one regardless. And people who are otherwise decent won't magically become jerks if ACT were suddenly allowed.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

You already have it: Stone, Sky, Sea.
If you pass it, your stats and rotation are enough for the fight. Too bad too much people even ignore its existence.

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SSS only tells me that my rotation vs a mechanic free environment where I can camp the dummy's rear and flank for the whole duration of the timer is good enough. It fails to tell me anything else that could help me improve my uptime for a particular fight. It doesn't help me identify my downtimes and it doesn't help me clearly calculate how much damage I'm during the opener of my rotation and hereafter. And that's just the top three things I can think right off the top of my head.

How is this not getting through people who keep saying "SSS is good enough"?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What did parsers do to those games, and do you have anything other than anecdote as evidence?

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I can't speak to much detail for Wildstar, but in WoW's case... very little, if anything. Unless progging a boss with an extremely tight enrage, players were generally only removed if they were putting out outlier level low numbers. It made people hit the training dummies a ton more, and sometimes the dps who made a heroic damn near impossible during early WotLK/Cata or a Challenge mode in WoD would be kicked, but beyond that... didn't provide exclusion except where exclusion was truly necessary.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

As for the topic, "how would a parser be toxic?" Before SE pushed the 'don't ask, don't tell' mentality of parsers, people were kicking under performing players for not pulling arbitrary numbers in their parties. This is probably what SE is trying to avoid, because if they make, or otherwise acknowledge, an allowance of the tool, people will be excluded for ... reasons ... on a game they pay a membership for.

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That being a concern is a big nothing burger though. If they were truly concerned about exclusion they wouldn't have created DF features that allowed you to only queue with people who cleared, or PF features that let you exclude jobs or ilvl, or fight status.

The fact that they've expanded on those features over the years is proof that it's nothing but a hypocritical stance.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Giving more tools to everyone to judge others will only end up in even more toxicity. "It will happen without a parser anyway" is a wrong argument. You are saying that like if having tons of players who actually dont even know what a parser is, getting suddenly access to one isn't gonna stir up even more trouble

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If you actually read those posts you'd see that the issue wasn't actually the community. It was the individual players. In fact 7 other people found the person to be toxic by measure of his gameplay. Sometimes just being catastrophically disrespectful to a teammate is more toxic than a few empty words said later.

The anti parser crowd always falls back on the argument that opening them up causes more toxicity, but can never present data to support their cause. It's simply a tool. Harassment is still policed via reports, etc. That doesn't go away or change. In fact, if you were to present me with 2 options. Kicked without any feedback (like the one poster) or kicked and told why, one gives me a chance to fix it.

You know, like the real world works? If I'm fired from a job, they tell me why. I fix it. If I get expelled from school/uni they tell me why. I fix it. If I get benched in a sports team, the coach tells me why and I practice.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I've played enough WoW over the years to see the good, the bad and the ugly with parsers. It is simply abused too often. Not always, but still too often.

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Ironic - I've played WoW for 14 years at this point. I can't cite a single example of parser abuse. Wonder why.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

What reason is there that everyone has to complete the tiers as fast as possible?

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if you've ever pugged Savage, you'd know the answer to this. The quality of players drops dramatically as better players clear early on and exclude those who haven't cleared.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's not a gatekeeper to the fight though, if you're hoping to add to that discussion. Its not a good alternative to a parser either. It's a good 3 minute rotational learning tool, but it's not much else.

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Which is the only thing you need in this game. Nothing in this game requires you to optimize using a parser. Do your rotation properly through mechanics and you'll be pulling your weight through any piece of content you do including ultimate.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

SSS only tells me that my rotation vs a mechanic free environment where I can camp the dummy's rear and flank for the whole duration of the timer is good enough. It fails to tell me anything else that could help me improve my uptime for a particular fight. It doesn't help me identify my downtimes and it doesn't help me clearly calculate how much damage I'm during the opener of my rotation and hereafter. And that's just the top three things I can think right off the top of my head.

How is this not getting through people who keep saying "SSS is good enough"?

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Your eyes will do the first 2 if you bother paying attention and the third one isn't important because for most fights the boss doesn't do anything that would stop that dummy opener.

Reasons why parsers wont be allowed: HC raiders.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

unless you want the FF14 community to turn toxic

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*look to some parties*
The game isn't already full of toxic players? ...

Else, maybe a way to you to admit that ruining anyone else run due to lack of performance is not toxic... (and even more, spitting on people giving you advice then...) you are right.
Toxicity get numerous way to apear, and FFXIV has his own...

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Ironic - I've played WoW for 14 years at this point. I can't cite a single example of parser abuse. Wonder why.

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Technically, for anti-parser people, kicking due to "parsing says you are bad" is an abuse...
Even if for the ilvl the guy you kicked is far under the "minimum" for a decent play. And, fun thing, i saw on FFXIV also this matter (where it is easier i think to define your rotation of skills)... This kind of player that do like what... 50% of the damages they should at least with their stuff...


The funniest thing about "parser yes or no?" is :
Parser are already in use (even if anti dislike it)
Parser are allowed time you dont kick "because parsers says you are bad" (so, just kick anyone without saying anything, and no matter... so much better yes)
There is a website where anyone can upload parsing data from a fight or another (FFlogs). Website already use from some people to select who they accept / deny in their team (not all, probably a minority yes)

So, the "no" are defending a situation bad for people from "yes team" and... also for themselves ! An official parser would be for a "victim of toxicity" a tool he can use to defend the fact he was good in fact... (so... victim from an abusiv kick)

SE have to choose, between working against FFlogs site, and all existing parser, or doing an official parser. Staying in the middle stance like now is the worst decision. For both team.


But here is (in my opinion) why we are in this silly middle stance : Banning/stopping all parsing system (and FFlogs) would only make more angry a part of population that is activ in end game content... and many of them could drop the game. so, less customer => bad. Doing an official parser? it would make angry the antiparsing team. Compalining about the toxicity (the one i wait them to show...) and... they could also stop their subscription.

No balls... this is the reason

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Originally Posted by AriaXIV

Reasons why parsers wont be allowed: HC raiders.

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I mean Raiders aren't really the issue at all are they? The problem is that bad players don't want their parties to know how bad they are, but mostly they themselves don't want to know how bad they are. They want to live in their own bubble of them pulling their weight as evidenced by certain other threads lately. To add another unhelpful generalization to the mix "Reasons why parsers wont be allowed: Casuals".

Raiders will almost all already have those numbers ready and available, just feels bad to be a ps4 player interested in parsing.(which i believe the original topic was about?)

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Originally Posted by AriaXIV

Reasons why parsers wont be allowed: HC raiders.

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The hilarious part about this is that the crowd that is vehemently anti-parser are hands down the most toxic, just look at any thread having to do with parsers that's been created within the last few years. HC raiders couldn't care less what your numbers are in your DF/PF groups because they have statics and don't pug content, aka you are not playing with them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

What do I lose? My time. Dog farms necessitate no less than 99 runs; more if you don't want to wait six months. Even if a minute is added because of consistent mistakes from one or two people, that means an extra Suzaku every 8-10 clears. In the end, I'll have added anywhere from ten to fifteen more runs, assuming I don't get a lucky roll all because someone couldn't be bothered to put in the effort to improve themselves before joining.

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I fully agree with your points, but good god how are you playing a game like this? If I was running after every minute I might or might not lose in a game it would become more akin to a job than anything else to me.


Most of the Pain Points that are mentioned by both the pro DPS meter and contra DPS meter crowd can be circumvented by simply not pugging. It is a social MMO and there are plenty of opporunities to meet good and competent people who are probably more than happy to tag along with whatever you are doing. Even just have 3 people you know in an 8 man group can make the experience a lot more bearable.

So what's the solution when no friends are online then? Don't play and get further behind on your goal?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So what's the solution when no friends are online then? Don't play and get further behind on your goal?

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I agree with this. Honestly, the whole “then run with friends who have similar play styles” could be used on both sides. You want to get carried, run with friends who don’t mind it. Want to get a group of well playing individuals, run with friends. In my opinion, everyone should EARN their loot. And by that, I mean, pulling their own weight. Especially in 8 man content, dungeons are too brain dead for many to care and don’t normally have mounts tied to them.

I'm on PS4 so parsing is no option for me. However, some of my runs have randomly been uploaded so I got the chance to look at them... and boy am I glad about that. There are so many things I can improve upon and am currently actively going after. Stuff that I probably wouldn't have noticed without being told about it. So yeah, I'm all for personal parses. It helps you improve. You will always have the option to not use it so I don't really see the issue

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

So what's the solution when no friends are online then? Don't play and get further behind on your goal?

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Cope with the circumstances, really. I doubt SE will change their stance on this at all. And please don't misunderstand my comment for arrogance or a personal attack, it is just that the game gets better when playing with likeminded people.

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Originally Posted by AriaXIV

Yeah see the wrong hands are the problem.. they seem to be more frequent.

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I hate to break it to you but if you don't want to see things in the wrong hands, you would've to take away the keyboards, mouses and controller of a lot of people in this game.

Besides that your HC raider argument doesn't work because the real HC raiders in this game won't even end up in a party with players who are so bad that they would've to flame them for their dps because they don't do DF with randoms. But i give you 1 point for your ty to blame it on a handfull of players.

All these anti parser arguments are just things that people pray up and down because they don't want that someone can see how "good" they play. Its like "I don't want grades in school because raisins".

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Originally Posted by AriaXIV

Reasons why parsers wont be allowed: HC raiders.

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Just look at these forums. There are far more threads made by people whinning "I've been kicked/told mean things because I was bad!" than HC raiders saying "Gosh, you're all so bad!".
Making a generality as to imply that HC raiders are toxic is ridiculous.

Also, remember that allowing parsers doesn't mean allowing harassment. Even with an official parser, if someone becomes a jerk to you, you would still be able to report them rightfully. So, please, don't think that things would suddenly become a complete chaos just because parsers are officially introduced. Current rules would still apply.

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

The answer to the op's question is so obvious, when his thread is surrounded by http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-in-this-game and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...is-with-people XD

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That has nothing to do with parsers. I can come to a different conclusion based on those.

If we want to assume those posts came purely of someone watching numbers, then there is basic rotation issues going on, so how come we do not have solo tutorial duties that need to be passing before you can queue up for expert and what not? A lot of people you end up pugging with are bad, who vote abandons alphascape 2.0 and 4.0? Had to vote abandon over the most basic issues. Getting to 70 is WAY to easy, stop making the game so easy people can be easily carried.

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Originally Posted by Gun-Cat

I fully agree with your points, but good god how are you playing a game like this? If I was running after every minute I might or might not lose in a game it would become more akin to a job than anything else to me.


Most of the Pain Points that are mentioned by both the pro DPS meter and contra DPS meter crowd can be circumvented by simply not pugging. It is a social MMO and there are plenty of opporunities to meet good and competent people who are probably more than happy to tag along with whatever you are doing. Even just have 3 people you know in an 8 man group can make the experience a lot more bearable.

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Oh, I don't. I merely used it as an example for a point of reference. I typically don't mind a fight taking longer if people are putting forth an effort or the atmosphere is pleasant. And I have infinitely higher patience for learning groups. My post was more directed towards people who join parties where they clearly don't meet the qualification and fully expect everyone else to carry them through.

Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible not to pug at some point. Your static or friends may have different interests. For instance, a good chunk of mine couldn't care less about dog farming. So if I want to do that at some point, I'm generally going to pug.

I agree that having easy access to some sort of ‘damage meter’ would be very useful, especially as a PS4 player. It’s difficult to improve when you can’t measure yourself by the same means as everyone else. I know if I can do a striking dummy, but that doesn’t tell me much lol.
At the same time though, parsers and the like can cause arguments, particularly because it creates a strict, set guideline on what the ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ way to do things are.
I can see why the devs are so hesitant to approach the issue, there’s no easy solution to it.

A DPS meter wouldn’t make sense in a video game, but I agree with having one somewhere personally.

Back in 2.0 I didn’t know if I was doing well on a savage boss until someone told me I was number 3. Also during a S hunt someone asked if they were number one and the person said no, Stating that I was number one.

It’s a big confidence booster. People telling you your numbers helps you improve so I agree with it. The down side of it was someone telling me my numbers were too low and so I was booted. I’m glad they told me that because I worked on improving myself. If they never told me I would of continued to be even suckeier.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Which is the only thing you need in this game. Nothing in this game requires you to optimize using a parser. Do your rotation properly through mechanics and you'll be pulling your weight through any piece of content you do including ultimate.

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Which Stone Sky Sea itself doesn't teach you. Good job, you can manage your 3 minute rotation on a static striking dummy. The dummy doesn't even simulate aoe to dodge, boss jumps, which are the most common places anyone fumbles with their rotation in content even as low as expert.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Which Stone Sky Sea itself doesn't teach you. Good job, you can manage your 3 minute rotation on a static striking dummy. The dummy doesn't even simulate aoe to dodge, boss jumps, which are the most common places anyone fumbles with their rotation in content even as low as expert.

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apply what you do on the dummy in the actual fight. play the game you use the dummies to build up muscle memory. its job is not to simulate a fight its asking a simple question: does this person know the mechanics of the job they are playing yes or no

The people mostly advocating for an official parser probably already use the 3rd party one. Why even bother? This reminds me of the windower issue on FF11 and once SE finally added it was useless. People prefer the 3rd party version.

If its anything like FF11 then its the JP community that matters to SE when they decide on matters anyway.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

apply what you do on the dummy in the actual fight. play the game you use the dummies to build up muscle memory. its job is not to simulate a fight its asking a simple question: does this person know the mechanics of the job they are playing yes or no

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https://orig00.deviantart.net/197d/f...ne-dbjcxk3.gif

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Therein lies the principle issue with relying on Stone Sky Sea as a stand-in for a parser, or even as a gatekeeper. Not every fight will let you belt off your optimal rotation; whether it's due to boss jumping, aoes pulling you out of melee range, repeated aoe dropping giving no time for even a slidecast, or many many other things, a static dummy will not be good preparation for that.

A parser helps in the making of decisions regarding rotation optimization. What gives me the bigger damage output in the end; using embolden on cooldown and executing a double emboldened finisher on the Level Checker in O11S? Or holding it and executing it after Level Checker, since my group can kill Level Checker in either case and using a burst window on the boss is a better use of the group's time?

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

have you ever played WoW? unless you want the FF14 community to turn toxic the last thing this game needs is a dps meter

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But, parsers increased content accessibility, clear rates, the predominance of well-informed rotational guides, and--with those--the cross-class and mechanics-common knowledge useful for both advising and synergizing with other classes... ultimately resulting in... reduced principle toxicity...

In all but tight-enrage, Kiljaeden-esque fights, it's not your numbers people are going to be pissed at in WoW. It'll be your failure to CC, interrupt, or LoS the enemy's near-one-shot skills, CCs, or massive heals. That isn't a parser issue. It's a 'actually giving a modicum of real responsibility even in (heroic) dungeons' or 'there exists a difficulty for which not everyone is immediately ready' issue and its benefits have outweighed its disbenefits. And it's only because the content is so damn easy in all regards but DDR and DPS-checks in XIV that damage ends up "making or breaking" a player's worth, and even then only in the context of the same content they'd "break" for their party if they don't improve.

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Originally Posted by Dirwen

The people mostly advocating for an official parser probably already use the 3rd party one. Why even bother?

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The people advocating for official parsers have a ps4, they have no method at all beyond SSS to measure their DPS. They have no 3rd party options at all, they don't even get logs beyond a few hundred lines worth.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Source on that quote please. I know he walked out jokingly but I never saw that exact quote.

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Me too.

I only know the statement for the great skill gap and he would think about implementing one when/if the gap would be smaller.

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Would love to hand you the source, except it was from a live stream in 2016 in Las Vegas. The service only keeps the stream for 1 year before expiring it and making it unable to be accessed. I can't say I've had much luck locating the player Q&A.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

That being a concern is a big nothing burger though. If they were truly concerned about exclusion they wouldn't have created DF features that allowed you to only queue with people who cleared, or PF features that let you exclude jobs or ilvl, or fight status.

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There is a big difference between being able to clear the fight and performing to a degree someone else deems "worthy." Generally, the fights are tuned so if you know your rotation and can do mechanics, you can clear - even in savage (ultimate may be another story).

Yes, SE gave us tools to arbitrarily include and exclude people at our own leisure based on 'have you killed it before?' and 'we need this kind of party.' :p I'm sure you'd have been thrilled getting 3 samurai in ByakkoEX trying to use tank LB3 without such features. Or it might have forced people to do the fight the supposed intended way. Then again, I can't recall many co-operative games even telling you if someone is new to a fight to begin with.

However, none of that still has nothing to do with a player having the ability to see someone pulling 200-700 less damage than they'd like and decides to boot them.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And? Some people are jerks. Welcome to life. A parse or "gatekeeper" isn't going to change that evident by the fact despite parsing technically being against the tos, people are still jerks. Therefore, the parse isn't impacting it. People with a shitty attitude will have one regardless. And people who are otherwise decent won't magically become jerks if ACT were suddenly allowed.

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It's apparently not enough SE turns a blind eye to people using ACT as it is, but the abuse is against ToS. You can't say you know parsing isn't impacting how people behave and treat others. Do you have a metric for this? Do you really think people will say they are kicking someone for bad DPS, knowing it's against ToS to use a third party program like ACT?

:| "Giving people metrics to judge each other, that will never affect people being jerks to each other."
*Watches every other facet of life prove this incorrect.*

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Also during a S hunt someone asked if they were number one and the person said no, Stating that I was number one.

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Ya'll heard of parsing in Pagos, now get ready for some next level parsing of less than high end content.

Next up, parsing leveling roulette.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Next up, parsing leveling roulette.

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Oh, when they manage to add Roulettes to the Duty Recorder function, I so will make use of it in Expert. For evaluation reasons, of course.