Objectively, The Royal Managerie Will Be Nerfed

Perhaps a good nerf for this fight would be to increase the timer from 60 minutes to 90. There is only time for about 3 runs in an hour, and then you have to reset or risk being cut short by time. Then you get a new group and are forced to explain mechanics again.

It's the last boss on the story, akin to the last boss of a single player game. In every game I've played the last boss farily puts the best challange (except in most ff games, where there are almost always optional bosses).

The difficulty is fine. Everything that boss throws has been already seen by players anyway. It's just a matter of putting a little effort in the fight.

If something should or shouldn't be nerfed is inherently subjective. You can't have an objective statement on that any more than you can on "Which is the best looking color", or "How many french is the correct amount to eat".

The premise of this thread is silly on the face. How easy or hard an story quest should be and how gated the content behind it should be are matters of opinion, game feel and design priorities not facts.

I personally like it the way it is but I'm not going to claim up and down that's some kind of gospel truth writ on to on the fabric of reality.

It should never be nerfed, and it should be iLvl-synced to 290.

Everybody who gets to that point has seen every mechanic in that fight at least five times for each mechanic due to required dungeons and trials having those mechanics; even if they boosted.

If somebody who got to 70 can't handle those mechanics, they won't be able to handle anything beyond it, and have hit their cap on this game until they improve. And that is Okay.

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Originally Posted by Sousoulsu

If somebody who got to 70 can't handle those mechanics, they won't be able to handle anything beyond it, and have hit their cap on this game until they improve. And that is Okay.

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Yes, until they get bored/frustrated, quit the game, cancel their sub, and provide no money to SE because of it. Multiply that by the load of people who aren't completing that main story, get bored/frustrated, quit and cancel their sub, that leads to a quite a loss of income because a sizeable chunk of players got stonewalled on content the HAVE to do in order to reach the multitude of endgame content as well as story content to come.

It would make sense to not nerf it if it was optional content like a raid (i.e. Ozma), but it isn't. If there aren't enough people clearing it or it becomes like Steps of Faith or another trial where groups disband upon entry, then it will be nerfed and the whiny hoard of tryhards will be told not to worry because Deltascape (Savage) is coming soon and to "please look forward to it".

This fight is a basic competence check into endgame. If you find it too difficult, then you've found yourself a wake up call. Just try again, try to learn, and help people learn. I believe in you. The fight doesn't need a nerf. If you've made it all the way to level 70 you've supposedly seen more than your fair share of the game, its content and its mechanics. There's nothing particularly new about this fight.

"If I can't clear it because I'm bad there's something wrong with it"
the me me generation
how about... git gud

I honestly feel quite bad for those who have yet to clear this and who read through this and other threads talking about how they have to 'git gud' or how they are just terrible at the game. Personally, I love challenges and learning fights (when I have the time) and found this trial interesting and involved, letting me use all of my skillset to the utmost while also learning/memorizing the mechanics and such. However, I think it very telling that most of the people saying to 'git gud' and that it is not a difficult fight, is easy, is the perfect challenge, shouldn't be a problem, etc., are almost all people who have cleared it.

It took me 2 parties and about 6 tries to down it, but I've seen others here mention it taking them hours and still not having cleared it. FF14 caters to casual gamers -- this can't be argued. This trial is going to be a stumbling block for what could be a large block of those casual gamers who never, ever even read these forums or reddit, but who are the majority. While I, like many here, like it, I also admit that it needs to be made more accessible, especially given the way many/most people abandon/leave the trial as soon as they get into it if they already have the clear.

Not all people love challenges -- I love Soulsborne games but many (most) of my friends hate them and rage quit on the tutorial bosses. This trial is a lot like DS3/BB bosses -- memorize mechanics and use skills wisely. However, FF14 is far from that level of masochism [which is so much fun -- Praise the Sun \0/]. It needs to cater to the more casual player base, most of whom may and do find this trial a bit overtuned.

Its really not a hard fight and doesn't deserve a nerf. It locks out the bad players from endgame content, which is GOOD, as it leaves at least some level of competency in the end game dungeons.
The fight has shown all the mechanics before and the cast names are pretty simple to understand.
Wind usually knocks back, ice freezes the floor, thunder is usually small or large aoes and is bad in water, fire is usually negated in water.
The big aoes are easy to dodge once you learn how they work, which is usually learned very quickly. Once you destroy the trial you realize it does a large chunk of his health.

This is BASIC STUFF for end game content. People who aren't good enough to pass it dont deserve to go into end game content, so it should never be nerfed, but it will.

Plus even as the most stationary job i found it pretty easy once i saw where aoes generally went. Its just called using your EYES

Every time I've been in there, it feels like the issue is less the mechanics as just people doing DPS they should have already been capable of in their mid 50s. Thus you just see the mechanics so many times that inevitably someone either incredibly bored or incredibly panicky messes up well-indicated tasks... such as leaving red-lit platforms.

The Royal Managerie is not that hard. I easily one shot it being paired with randoms in ilvl 290 job gear. The difficulty is fine. The community needs to work hard to teach new players mechanics.

I'd say not to nerf difficulty, but perhaps give a boosted tome bonus for first timers. This might incentivise people to stay and help.

I agree with all the folks saying that everything that's thrown at you in this fight you should know about by now. You really should know what a stack marker is, that you split to break chains etc... Even when you get hit by, say, the tail, if you're healed up beforehand you won't die. It's just a matter of people having to know how to play their job and do mechanics at the same time. If you can't handle a basic level of competency like that and apply a good attitude to keep a party together, why are you playing the game?
It's a good final boss fight, and enjoyable. But when I run into bad players trying to do it in trial roulette, it does make me a bit salty because I can't understand why people wouldn't put in a basic level of effort when they're playing a game that you have to play with other humans. Why would you let 7 other people down by not trying to improve yourself the whole journey up to this point so that you can handle the fight? That's something I don't understand.

I honestly dont understand legitimately why the cries for nerfs almost EVERY MECHANIC has been done before minus the green wind bit... all in story based dungeons/trials you HAD to have cleared to even GET TO THAT POINT. Im sorry it doesnt need a nerf... Im honestly tired of people crying for nerfs. How are you guys gonna get better if they keep dumbing things down... seriously stuff needs to be gradually increased in difficulty and should have kept up with that pace its the only way the player base will get better. If you keep crying for nerfs you wont get better in fact it shows how LAZY you are because you refuse to improve yourselves. Stop killing the game its exactly what the game DOESNT NEED

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Just did that fight, wasted 1hour(30min wait time, 30min fight/wipes) and no clear... and have to say.... Why the darn a ->STORY<- fight have an uber ->SAVAGE<- mode fight?! /screams angry D:< This will just cause people stop playing and AGAIN: locked out behind content, cant do new stuff we got today, THANKS! ..cant even buy better gears with tomes ether lmfao! I Never played Savage mode in this game nor I want to. <-< they are making me toxic and salty to other people! If I want play a difficult cheap game that makes me crush a wall I play Dark Souls with my feets. <.< Nerf this crap at once! Story fights should be for ->CASUALS<- not Elitists! >->

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You compare this Trial to a Savage mode yet you've never done savage? Lol ok.

All I have to say is some of you people, especially those who are vets need to step it up.
You done all the previous content, HOPEFULLY because a lot of Shinryu's stuff is a mix up between previous Primal's.
It's a dodge party for the most part, with a few stack ups and a DPS race,
nothing we haven't seen before. It's ridiculous. This is easier than pre-nerf Steps and Steps NPCS actually told you what to do the entire time.
I hope SE doesn't nerf this because the "baby's first time" crap needs to stop, especially since we're this far into the game now.
We honestly need to stop the roflkeyboard junk now.
TLDR: Git gud.

For what it's worth, I loved the difficulty of this fight. My PUG group one-shot it a few days into the expansion, luckily enough, but the whole thing felt exhilarating due to the difficulty. I understand it can be frustrating to wipe, but if you are a "casual" player, then isn't this pretty much the end of your journey? Shouldn't it be a fitting challenge for you to overcome?

It certainly felt like a final boss to me.

ya'll are crazy, yoship is just gonna tell you guys in the next PPL to get good.

It probably will get nerfed like The Steps of Faith did. Every piece of content in this game gets nerfed after a while so people who aren't good at it can pass (if they didn't get carried already). We're used to this by now I think.

honestly if you have played through ARR, Heavensward and Stormblood you should have no problem with these mechanics by now. and if you payed to level your class and skip to stormblood you should go back and do all the fights and learn them.

For what it's worth, I did not find this fight challenging or difficult, but it was still fun and enjoyable :)

People don't ever seem to realize that content gets harder over time naturally. All the best players in FFXIV have cleared this fight, and most of them will go out of their way to never do it again. The overall DF skill level of people trying to do it is constantly decreasing.

Also "You should know all these mechanics by now" isn't necessarily true for new players who aren't going to have seen mechanics from every optional fight, or remember from fights they had to do once. And then there's stuff like the targeted giant cone AoE is indicated by a red arrow marker, which is usually used for stuff like circular fireball attacks. Although the exact same mechanic is in the Zenos fight at the end of the Ala Mhigo dungeon, but it's indicated by a tether there. So they might think they have to spread out and end up hitting everyone with it.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Also "You should know all these mechanics by now" isn't necessarily true for new players who aren't going to have seen mechanics from every optional fight, or remember from fights they had to do once.

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New players should know this more than the Vets because it's fresh in their mind.
Nearly everything that has been done, has been a requirement to do. Every primal was a must to continue. The chain things were you move apart
to break it, is from The Vault, which is mandatory. I can't recall one thing from that fight that was in an optional dungeon.
Even so, after you mess up a few times, people should by then know what to do or not do.

Unless people used Jump Potions for all this then nevermind lol.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

And then there's stuff like the targeted giant cone AoE is indicated by a red arrow marker, which is usually used for stuff like circular fireball attacks. Although the exact same mechanic is in the Zenos fight at the end of the Ala Mhigo dungeon, but it's indicated by a tether there. So they might think they have to spread out and end up hitting everyone with it.

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It only should take seeing what happens once to learn that they should be taken off to a side. There's nothing here that should be difficult to learn at a glance, honestly. And since most people hover in melee range during the fight, and the cone is smallest at the top, it's fairly easy to quickly adjust if baited wrong.

Just add a $3 jump potion for the entitled.

Finally! Cleared the 6th run and something like 20 wipes. Mainly thanks to the tanks and healers who all knew the fight (all with 310 items).

Jump potions were a mistake.

it is a great fight the way it is! sure it took a few wipes to get it done the first time but it is fun as heck and there is nothing better than feeling great after beating something challenging. please SE keep it the way it is!

well, some day it will most likely be nerfed, but hopefully this is a few major patches away

Don't nerf this

Please don't nerf the fight. It's a lot of fun, and the final boss in a game should be challenging.

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Originally Posted by Charlayy

Just add a $3 jump potion for the entitled.

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3 frickin' dollars?

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

3 frickin' dollars?

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You're quite right, it should be more to pass people through a penultimate battle and skill check. If someone was buying gil to pay for a carry, it would cost them more than that.
Not that I condone gil selling.

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Originally Posted by TielF

But when I run into bad players trying to do it in trial roulette, it does make me a bit salty because I can't understand why people wouldn't put in a basic level of effort when they're playing a game that you have to play with other humans. Why would you let 7 other people down by not trying to improve yourself the whole journey up to this point so that you can handle the fight? That's something I don't understand.

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What I don't understand is why people still don't realise that there are going to be varying skill levels in a group, and it's not necessarily for lack of effort that mistakes can be made. People sit on their ivory towers and say 'git gud', but rarely do they actually read into what's going wrong in the first place. They chalk it up to a lack of effort or plain stupidity, which is very rarely the case.

You want to know what kills people? Reaction times kill people for one. Cat like reflexes you may have, but not everyone else might. You know what else kills people? Latency. Not everyone has a super-fast connection, and there will be people who see the markers a bit too late, or misjudge their escapes and get hit. Want to know what else kills people? People kill people. By constantly belittling your group and telling they're not good enough, you can guarantee some of them are going to play worse, not better. They're more likely to make mistakes because they'll be so focused on one mechanic that they'll forget another.

It's fine to be better than someone else at a game, but this isn't the only metric to measure by.

Sorry but "in my day". If you got to the last boss of a game and couldn't kill it, welp, I guess I'm not finishing this until I return to it "some time" and finally figure out a way to kill it. There was never a patch coming. It will get nerfed eventually, but SE don't want to just remove the challenge that some people would expect at the end of the game. Can you imagine how some people would feel to go through all that story, get to the end and then Shinryu turns out to be easier than Sirensong. Especially when the fight is just avoid x until boss dies. There's nothing complex or mechanical to it.

I'm so glad that we finally found someone who keeps the ultimate truths and shares them with us.

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SE can't have an instance at that difficulty

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it's going to gate people from content

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They will lose subs otherwise and it's bad for business.

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These are all your narrowminded predictions and it's nowhere close to being objective. I don't think that Ozma made Dun Scaith the least run and popular 24 man dungeon ever. In fact most people I met liked the fight a lot and the challenge it was in the beginning.

Right now I experience the same, Shinryu seems to be very popular and many people see it as one of the better fights in the game. Everytime someone asks for help in a linkshell people volunteer much more than usual.

This is not a visual novel, the end boss of such a big game can stand a certain difficulty in my humble subjective opinion.

I disagree. I think this is good for business since there will be no congestion. and the remaining players will be the ones who learned how to fight like a true warrior of light

Anyone remember Titan HM and the relic quest in ARR? Good memories :) If I can spend a week straight trying to kill something so I have a relic to go into BCoB back then, you all can deal with something that at most would take a day with a PF group..

My party beat it in one go without knowing how to do the fight. Just learn to dodge. Please SE, keep it as it is.

I do not think that this Trial should be nerfed. All of the mechanics displayed in the fight are things that everyone has encountered throughout the game multiple times and doesn't introduce any sort of new, unknown mechanic.

In addition to that, the fight felt like a grand finale to 4.0. It felt like a final boss fight in any other game. Thordan dropped the ball on that, becoming a glorified light show as people just stomped him into oblivion and gave 3.0 a less than satisfying sense of fulfillment (then Nidhogg went and reversed that. People cried nerfs for that Trial too and lo and behold, it didn't get nerfed and people are getting through just fine.)

People cried nerfs for Weeping City, it didn't, received praise for it, and people cleared anyway.
People cried nerfs for Final Steps of Faith, it didn't, received praise for it, and people cleared anyway.
This will play out no different.

I honestly hope this is some kind of joke lol.

The fight is by far the best designed trial (and I mean it) we've had so far in Stormblood. Why do you wanna ruin it by nerfing it? It's not even something like Steps of Faith that required some sort of coordination (that is indeed a bit too much to expect from DF groups). All you gotta do is DODGE, and people still want it to be nerfed????

In all seriousness. If you can't clear it, I think you might be playing the wrong game.

I agree that it doesn't need to be nerfed. It was a really fun fight and I've only been playing the game since last July. It'd be shame if it did get nerf.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Reaction times kill people for one. Cat like reflexes you may have, but not everyone else might. You know what else kills people? Latency. Not everyone has a super-fast connection, and there will be people who see the markers a bit too late, or misjudge their escapes and get hit. Want to know what else kills people? People kill people. By constantly belittling your group and telling they're not good enough, you can guarantee some of them are going to play worse, not better.

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I never said that I was a dodgemaster or that I never die. Sometimes the combo of tail on my tile+rectangle aoes still nabs me when I'm trying to heal while moving. I get it, some combos suck. But every time I go in there I learn to dodge it better. Some people die to the same thing over and never stop dying. Those people I don't understand, who don't learn or show that they're trying to learn. And you can clear even with many deaths. My first clear had healer lb3 plus reses.
But people tried their best to not die consistently to mechanics & did their jobs with a modicum of skill.
Latency, ho boy. I understand if that gets you too, I have EU friends on NA servers and they suffer. I myself cleared while dcing and rubberbanding slightly. The thing is that yes, you will die sometimes to latency, but if you still perform your job at a basic level, you can get through that one way or another. The fight is very forgiving in that I haven't seen enrage ever even with bad parties.
And I never make fun of my party. I try to explain mechs if that's needed. I don't drop immediately when I get into trial roulette and see it's the Menagerie. I stick with the party even if they're destined to fail, and I've never initiated an Abandon Duty. Ever.
It's a part of the story, people need to get through it- I get that. So I keep my salt and vinegar out of chat and do the best job I can to get us through.
I'm only mad when people aren't doing the minimum needed to clear, because they shouldn't be at such a low level of skill after spending dozens of hours learning the game while leveling up.