Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Omg how is this debate still going. x_x

Just look at the facts:

- Does every healer have to DPS? No!

- Are healers who DPS (when there's nothing to heal) AND successfully keep their party alive objectively better healers? Yes!

These are the stone cold facts. And people can play the way they want.
But, just like that, the rest of the community can choose to have you or not on their party. If you eventually get dismissed from a group because the way you play, you have just suck it up and understand those are the consequences of your preferred playstyle. Not everyone have to agree in having you around.

Now can we go back to Diadem ilvl280 weapon mentor rage pls. :)

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I like you. I would love to to go back to those threads, those are fun.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, losing a dps that isn't contributing at all might actually prevent everyone from dying.

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oh, i thought yall were talking about healers. my bad.

*walks away*

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Originally Posted by ananda

This is just a difference is what metric is used to measure what's "optimal". VeliusVire, you are probably measuring it as "resulting in the fastest run possible". Vorx is probably measuring it as "the most stress free run possible". I would say that both are valid metric, as long as both of you enjoy the game more by utilizing said metric. The problem comes when two players with different mindset are put together in the same party, which is the crux of the issue here.

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To be honest the only time this crap comes up is on here, in game people welcome all the freedom stuff. Classes, DPS healers. Sad really the forum is so closed minded..

Healers that do no dps get zero commendations from me.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Healers that do no dps get zero commendations from me.

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Ohhh noooooo, how will we ever cope?

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Originally Posted by Lilyth

Omg how is this debate still going. x_x

Just look at the facts:

- Does every healer have to DPS? No!

- Are healers who DPS (when there's nothing to heal) AND successfully keep their party alive objectively better healers? Yes!

These are the stone cold facts. Having said that, people can indeed play the way they want.

But, just like that, the rest of the community can freely choose whether to accept you in their party or not. If you eventually get dismissed from a group because of disagreements around the way you handle your class, you'll just have to suck it up and understand those are the consequences of your preferred playstyle. Not everyone has to agree with having you around as this have already been stated as a valid reason for kicking.
Simply go and find another group of people that are ok with you doing "X" or "Y", instead of complaining on the forums.

Now can we go back to Diadem ilvl280 weapon mentor rage pls. :)

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Well said, +1

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Healers that do no dps get zero commendations from me.

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You do know no one really gives them anymore right?

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Originally Posted by Vorx

You do know no one really gives them anymore right?

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Huh, dunno what its like on Lamia but I still frequently get commendations on any of the 3 roles. :| A lot of the time people are probably just filling out the checklist in the weekly challenge log if anything xD

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Originally Posted by Vorx

To be honest the only time this crap comes up is on here, in game people welcome all the freedom stuff. Classes, DPS healers. Sad really the forum is so closed minded..

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As close minded as a healer who decides that as soon as they join a party they get to ignore half of their actions and abilities?

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Originally Posted by NaesakiAshwell

Huh, dunno what its like on Lamia but I still frequently get commendations on any of the 3 roles. :| A lot of the time people are probably just filling out the checklist in the weekly challenge log if anything xD

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Nah about the only time people give them anymore is when you explain the run to new people.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

As close minded as a healer who decides that as soon as they join a party they get to ignore half of their actions and abilities?

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Close minded in terms of telling people they have to play the way you all deem is "right."

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

As close minded as a healer who decides that as soon as they join a party they get to ignore half of their actions and abilities?

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Just...don't bother with that one, it's like running a marathon while you're malnourished :3c

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Originally Posted by VeliusVire

Just...don't bother with that one, it's like running a marathon while you're malnourished :3c

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Same goes for you "elites"

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Same goes for you "elites"

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elite
eɪˈliːt,ɪˈliːt/Submit
noun
1.
a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

I'll take being an Elite, you need to find an actual insult that doesn't function as a compliment.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

You do know no one really gives them anymore right?

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People do. Even as a dps, I get 1 or 2 most of the time per dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Vorx

I don't have to tell them, anyone who reads any of your comments as well as hundreds of other people's in here can see it. You try to tell people they have to play this way, they have to do this, you don't even attempt to understand why they wanna do it in the first play. All that matters is people who it YOUR way. That is why your all pompous A-holes. You don't like it? NEWS FLASH! NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU LIKE! It's their game they can play how THEY like. End of discussion!

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t. 800 DPS Melee who can't juggle his buffs

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Originally Posted by Vorx

To be honest the only time this crap comes up is on here, in game people welcome all the freedom stuff. Classes, DPS healers. Sad really the forum is so closed minded..

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lol Are you playing the same game?

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

lol Are you playing the same game?

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Are you? I run with people who are much, much more open minded then any of you complaining over Healer DPs seem able to be..

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Originally Posted by Vorx

Close minded in terms of telling people they have to play the way you all deem is "right."

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Honestly though. .. how is standing there actively waiting to heal beneficial? Healers have a very diverse tool kit. If all someone is doing is keeping the tank topped up they have no need for regen, asylum, medica 2, divne seal, swiftcast, tetra, presence of mind, virus, eye for an eye, benediction. All these moves help a healer get the tank back to full, or delay when you will need to get him back up. If you utilize these moves to their fullest it allows you a lot of time to dps.
Yeah, there is a learning curve required. Yeah you might cause a death or 2. But honestly I'd prefer to have people try to make the run go faster.

Not to mention if you babysit the tanks hp the tank now has no need to use their mitigation and self healing tools.
I'm sorry if this seems like I'm insulting you but it's not that hard, and it's way more fun.

Honestly though it is flattering to be called an elite. ^^

I find healers that are so obligated to dps that they can't keep tank alive to be cancer.
Dpsing as healer is fine if you keep party alive while doing so, but sadly that is not nearly always the case.

And to be honest there shouldn't be any content where you even can hit enrage anymore, so healer dps is kinda not even needed atm.
Unless your party has these shire heroes with under 1k dps.

Some of you make it sound as if healers only have one choice: heal, or dps.

That's not the case at all. I main white mage, and I dps (and I'm not an elitist/hardcore/raid player either).

I wrote this in another thread, and I'll write it again. Even when I dps, I never truly stop healing. Even as I dps, I keep an eye on my team's health bars, and I make sure to reapply regen when it's needed, things like that.

That's what a healer does. It's not as simple as "I'm only going to heal" or "I'm only going to dps".

It's a balancing act. Knowing how to set up with your tools, like regen and asylum, how to time your cleric stance and dps, switch back and get the tank up right away with benediction/tetragrammaton and reapply regen, and activate cleric stance and start dpsing again isn't an elitist style of playing. It's knowing how to take advantage of the tools given to you.

And as I wrote before, there will be times when you cannot dps. Sometimes you have to heal through unavoidable damage, heal someone who got hit, etc.

It would be unreasonable to pressure a healer to dps during these kinds of situations, but that's not what we're talking about. Nobody's saying, "dps always no matter what". That's completely unreasonable, and if people are giving you flack for not dpsing during these kinds of situations, then they're in the wrong.

But those kinds of situations are uncommon. Most of the content allows you to dps safely because the damage is scripted and relatively low.

During these kinds of times, when damage is low and tank can handle it, dps. It'll help kill mobs faster and in turn reduce the damage the tank is taking.

Just because it isn't your "main job" to dps doesn't mean you can't take full advantage of what your job is capable of. It'll make you a stronger, more efficient player. Yes, it takes practice and effort, but once you get it down to a tee, it will help tremendously.

Don't get caught up with the whole "well, dps need to do their job". This isn't about comparing yourself against others. This is about improving yourself, and becoming a better player than the one you were before.

Oh holy hell... we didn't get through the dungeon a whopping 2 minutes faster...

Oh my god my... life... is... over... Seriously some of you need to get one...

If the party walked out of there, and you completed it... then its only your own BS you're stuck on... and whopping 2 minutes isn't going to kill you.

The end result is... did you complete it... or did the party get continuously wiped and fail... well if you walked out of there as a success... you win... game over...

No need to get caught up in the petty crap.

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Originally Posted by Ziegeri

I find healers that are so obligated to dps that they can't keep tank alive to be cancer.
Dpsing as healer is fine if you keep party alive while doing so, but sadly that is not nearly always the case.

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I rarely see a dps healer have trouble keeping a party alive, it most cases its the healer who isn't dps causing problems because they are half paying attention.

As any class healer, dps or tank you should be doing something on every gcd so your never standing around doing nothing. As a healer that often means switching to clerics stance and throwing out some damage when healing is not required.

Honestly once your experienced enough as a healer you can be comfortable being in clerics stance for almost 90% of a dungeon/ normal trial because there simply not enough damage going out and usually all that's required is switching out of clerics stance for a few seconds to heal the tank or throw out an aoe heal and you can switch right back and dps.

As things stand now if your refusing to dps as a healer on principle then your just a bad player just like the dps who uses single target rotations only in dungeons/does sub 1000 dps or are a tank who never leaves tank stance you can argue it all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

If Yoshi P wants healers to be healing all the time then he should really make it so Stormblood content is hard enough that its actually required of them.

You know it doesn't even have to be pretty...

I remember one Aurum Vale run... we were at the last boss, and Healer went down, so I raised her with fast cast. She gets back up, gets nailed again and goes down... I'm thinking ok I'm going to have to keep the tank alive, forget DPSing at this point... but at least we have the Ninja... boom... ninja goes down too... so I'm tossing out heals on the tank, and throwing in the occasional DoT... I run out of MP even after Aetherflow... and boom I go down...


The boss has a sliver of health at this point, and I'm thinking... oh crap.. so close...

But sure enough the Paladin pulls out the win...

Well we won... it was ugly... but we won.

I'm not going to sit there and jump on the WHM for dying... or second guess anything... it was ugly... but end of the day... we won.

I remember one in Cutters Cry... where I had to Raise the Whm 3 times on the last boss.... again we won... but I went down after getting caught in the mechanic while raising the Whm on the third time.

The Blm and Pld pulled out the win that time.

Honestly I really don't care how the WHM does their job so long as they stay alive and keep everyone alive.... that's the whole point of a healer... because I sure as hell don't want to Keep getting stuck with the job as a SMN.

I am NOT going to sit there and judge them by whether we get done with the run a whopping two minutes faster...

I'll be JUST fine as long as me and the rest of the party... are standing at the end of the dungeon

The ability to effectively Stance Dance is what separates the men from the boys.

Don't need no Calculus to explain that.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Oh holy hell... we didn't get through the dungeon a whopping 2 minutes faster...

Oh my god my... life... is... over... Seriously some of you need to get one...

If the party walked out of there, and you completed it... then its only your own BS you're stuck on... and whopping 2 minutes isn't going to kill you.

The end result is... did you complete it... or did the party get continuously wiped and fail... well if you walked out of there as a success... you win... game over...

No need to get caught up in the petty crap.

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2 minutes? lol that's cute. I've been in leveling dungeons that would have been 15-20 mins longer if healer didn't dps. And on farmed dungeons for tomes, the faster you do, the better. Minutes just add up in the long run.

As a Healer (I run White Mage) I DPS when I don't need to heal, but if I feel I need to be ready to heal or support and/or preserve MP I will not DPS. I'll throw on Aeros when I can but I am there to heal, not to DPS, and I for one would never expect a Healer to focus on DPS at all, even if they have the time to, if they don't want to.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

2 minutes? lol that's cute. I've been in leveling dungeons that would have been 15-20 mins longer if healer didn't dps. And on farmed dungeons for tomes, the faster you do, the better. Minutes just add up in the long run.

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Most dungeons I have done that not a 24 main have been completed in 30 minute or less you saying you can do dungeons in 15 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Most dungeons I have done that not a 24 main have been completed in 30 minute or less you saying you can do dungeons in 15 minutes?

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Except that's not what I said. Read again.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Oh holy hell... we didn't get through the dungeon a whopping 2 minutes faster...

Oh my god my... life... is... over... Seriously some of you need to get one...

If the party walked out of there, and you completed it... then its only your own BS you're stuck on... and whopping 2 minutes isn't going to kill you.

The end result is... did you complete it... or did the party get continuously wiped and fail... well if you walked out of there as a success... you win... game over...

No need to get caught up in the petty crap.

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White Mage melt large packs so quickly with holy spam. They put Summoners to shame. If you're a White Mage and you aren't taking advantage of that amazing spell then something is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Most dungeons I have done that not a 24 main have been completed in 30 minute or less you saying you can do dungeons in 15 minutes?

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The last 3 sets of expert roulette dungeons. Yeah. 15 minutes.

The first dungeon were a little longer even if everyone was dpsing, but now it could be indeed done in 15min.

Here's a question that can have his pretty much. If you're doing okay with in the dungeon whichever form it is normal Savage Etc what pray tell is so wrong with a Healer that uses to help damage the boss help the fight go faster in Kill the Boss quicker what is so wrong with that why does it bother those certain ones that get upset about it?

Who cares >.> The only person who can suggest to me what to do is my raiding team...other then that, I do what is best for my group and that varies..soo..

Haha it'll be funny if cleric stance gets nerfed/adjusted in SB.

Either way it wouldn't bother me.

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Originally Posted by Kit-Kat

2 minutes? lol that's cute. I've been in leveling dungeons that would have been 15-20 mins longer if healer didn't dps. And on farmed dungeons for tomes, the faster you do, the better. Minutes just add up in the long run.

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blame your dps then. Just had a ran in keeper of the lake, and healer only healed. dungeon went by fast.
next dungeon i did was super slow because the healer was dpsing more then healing, not healing the tank much. The dps were causing the problems. Content doesn't take into account of healer damage. So if you get slow runs look at the dps not the healer.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

White Mage melt large packs so quickly with holy spam. They put Summoners to shame. If you're a White Mage and you aren't taking advantage of that amazing spell then something is wrong.

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which skrews over drk tanks.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

next dungeon i did was super slow because the healer was dpsing more then healing, not healing the tank much.

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Today I learned doing DPS is actually making the runs slower. :D

Also, you still haven't answered the question of if you have any experience of actually playing a healer in this game (especially in Savage raid content).

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Originally Posted by Taika

Today I learned doing DPS is actually making the runs slower. :D

Also, you still haven't answered the question of if you have any experience of actually playing a healer in this game (especially in Savage raid content).

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I do, and I can certainly say that the healer role in this game is about as fun and engaging as hunting a low rank Great Jaggi in Rare 10 gear.

Spoilers: It's not.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

which skrews over drk tanks.

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Only bad DRKs.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I do, and I can certainly say that the healer role in this game is about as fun and engaging as hunting a low rank Great Jaggi in Rare 10 gear.

Spoilers: It's not.

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I fail to see your comment having anything to do with the discussion but you're of course entitled to your personal opinion. :D