@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

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Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

I dont think SE will implemented a second two handed sword tank, we already have drk. So the only problem is how a red mage can be a tank ? :p

I personnaly think its possible to make a spellcasting tank with lightweight armor

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Man, we don't need another 2 handed sword tank? I know what will fix it! Another 1 handed sword tank!!!1 That's so much better!

Your lack of self awareness is staggering.

Wait and see ^^

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I picture a Hammer Tank to be more of a two-handed type.

That picture plus a shield will just be a Mace/shield Job which for some reason RPGs tend to relate more to Paladin/holy knight/priest type Jobs.

Two-handed Hammer would certainly fit more for Viking in my opinion.

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Except "mace / shield job" will never be a Paladin in this game, because Paladins use swords. All the more reason to have it here on another job known for using Hammers (of which there are very few to begin with). We could use another job that actually equips secondary arms, anyhow, and introducing another shield user just means that every hour put towards making non-JSE shields for Paladin is now doing double time for Viking.

Besides, Warrior is basically already a two-handed hammer job. I can count maybe two animations for WAR that wouldn't work completely interchangeably with a two handed hammer. I don't think we need another rowdy "two handed weapon they swing around and slam the ground with like madmen" tank because I think it's basically already been done to death with WAR, there's not any room for such a thing to stand out if you just want to swap out an axe head for a hammer head.

I don't think adding more tank jobs is going to make more people play tanks... I love DKs as a concept, but I dislike and don't enjoy tanking, so i'd never play one. I want SAM to be a dps class... Because we don't have a two handed sword DPSer.

If they don't add another tank at the same time then they would need to increase the party size for dungeons from 2 dps to 3 dps to fix the queue otherwise the queue will be very long for those wanting to play dps that it could basically make people unsub from the game.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

This is unequivocally false. PLD only has two spells, and only one of them has a cast bar, those being Flash and Clemency respectively. DRK is also only a magic tank in that they have three spells, 4 if you include Dark Passenger. Neither of these tanks incorporate magic in their single target damage dealing, and DA isn't magic, but the Abyss. As of now, there's no tanks that incorporate magic and weapon play into their core play style, which optimal usage would involve using both offensive and defensive magics and balancing aggressive weapon play. Red Mage fits as a magic tank. DRK is more accurately described as an antimage tank.

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Skills PLD can use that has casts:
Clemency, Cure, Raise, Protect, and Stone Skin.

Additionally, why would they make the tank have damage dealing casts when interruption is infact a thing?

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Man, we don't need another 2 handed sword tank? I know what will fix it! An offensive magic and 1 handed sword using tank!!!1 That's so much better!

Your lack of self awareness is staggering.

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Fixed for ya.

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Skills PLD can use that has casts:
Clemency, Cure, Raise, Protect, and Stone Skin.

Additionally, why would they make the tank have damage dealing casts when interruption is infact a thing?

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The fact of the matter is that none of the above are used regularly or commonly. The one that's most frequently used is Clemency for a quick spot heal and stoneskin when there's literally nothing else. You could make a case for protect being rarely used to rebuff someone that just died, but none of the above are frequently used during normal play. SS is rarely ever used once they get access to Divine Veil, and no competent pld uses Cure or Raise(except in PotD)), which only leaves Flash. DRK has more spells.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

no competent pld uses Cure or Raise(except in PotD)).

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Cure can be used to proc your own Divine Veil faster than Clemency and for less MP. Fixing Raise is as simple as letting it be used in combat. No, it wouldn't be easy to execute (no Swiftcast), especially not while main tanking, but that's all the more reason for it to be usable at all, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Cure can be used to proc your own Divine Veil faster than Clemency and for less MP. Fixing Raise is as simple as letting it be used in combat. No, it wouldn't be easy to execute (no Swiftcast), especially not while main tanking, but that's all the more reason for it to be usable at all, isn't it?

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Cure's not any faster than Clemency, considering both can be cast at 2 seconds each, and MP can only possibly become an issue with frequent stance swapping. Raise being usable would be nice, but that's still support magic, and has nothing to do with damage dealing.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Sorry, forgot they shortened the cast time on Clemency. It really used to be 3 seconds.

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Not to worry, everyone slips up sometimes~ I'm a PLD/DRK main since 3.0, hence my desires for a more spell focused tank.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Cure's not any faster than Clemency, considering both can be cast at 2 seconds each, and MP can only possibly become an issue with frequent stance swapping. Raise being usable would be nice, but that's still support magic, and has nothing to do with damage dealing.

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Sorry, forgot they shortened the cast time on Clemency. It really used to be 3 seconds.

Well, well, well.

Official 2016 Eorzean Census is here.

Role Distribution:
2015

2016

2% gain in Tanks, 4% gain in Healers.

Tank Distribution:
2014-2015

2016

Dark Knight is the most popular tank with a whopping 47%, over double what it was last year.


So...what's all that about DRK not luring people to try/play a tank? Hmmm....

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

So...what's all that about DRK not luring people to try/play a tank? Hmmm....

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"SEE THESE MINUSCULE SHIFTS IN NUMBERS, THAT MEANS YOU WERE, LIKE, SO WRONG!"

Well, golly gee, 2%, that's almost half the number of people who bothered to play endgame! You're right, cause there couldn't be any possibility that people decided DRK was something they could finally enjoy tanking with, but of course we're not going specify what are current and what are new players, that's obviously not a stat we'd want to know.

And the popularity doubling since last year... when it released in June... before QoL updates... and people getting a feel for the job... over a period of time when a main can get stale for a player often pushing them to try other roles/classes. Let's not worry about what makes the difference though, it said from previous year to current so that's what is important.

Oh, but someone might have said that there was no possible way people would try DRK? Not like it'd make sense that obviously some people are going to try AND like DRK and make a shift in occupation. But you got some fancy numbers to throw around, so who cares about those pesky finer details?

Naoki Yoshida, as you can see most people here want a DPS tank, I mean they want to do damage so think about this: make it a over the edge Damage dealer tank like Warrior. See, ppl want it as DPS cos most probably are afraid it does low damage like PLD so to avoid that they want DPS. Combine water with wine and make it a Tank-DPS ne? \o/

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

[...] 2% gain in Tanks, 4% gain in Healers. [...]

Dark Knight is the most popular tank with a whopping 47%, over double what it was last year.


So...what's all that about DRK not luring people to try/play a tank? Hmmm....

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i wouldn't say a 2% gain in tanks is any proof that DRK lures people to try tanking. i mean: i tried tanking because of DRK, so stuff like this happens. but a 2% gain in tanks over a year? that's not really "luring people". what these numbers show is that many PLD switched to DRK, that's it.

I hope it gets made a melee DPS and a red mage becomes tank instead.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I hope it gets made a melee DPS and a red mage becomes tank instead.

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I will not even touch that class if Red Mage is being a gd tank... Fk no lol.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i wouldn't say a 2% gain in tanks is any proof that DRK lures people to try tanking. i mean: i tried tanking because of DRK, so stuff like this happens. but a 2% gain in tanks? that's not really "luring people". what these numbers show is that many PLD switched to DRK, that's it.

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Yoshida a while back partially blamed long Void Ark tank queues on that more people were playing tanks for DRK.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

red mage becomes tank instead.

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I'd be all over this. Imagine all the torches and pitchforks if this actually happens.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Naoki Yoshida, as you can see most people here want a DPS tank, I mean they want to do damage so think about this: make it a over the edge Damage dealer tank like Warrior. See, ppl want it as DPS cos most probably are afraid it does low damage like PLD so to avoid that they want DPS. Combine water with wine and make it a Tank-DPS ne? \o/

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People want to avoid the responsability it is to tank so go DRK / WAR cause you can hide behind the "I do more damages, go tank you PAL" xD

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Originally Posted by Celef

People want to avoid the responsability it is to tank so go DRK / WAR cause you can hide behind the "I do more damages, go tank you PAL" xD

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LMAO legit you just made me laugh hard XD! Poor pldxD

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

So...what's all that about DRK not luring people to try/play a tank? Hmmm....

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Reading the entire thread I really don't see many arguing about DRK appeal at all. I certainly did not in any way.

My point and many others just want something different continuing forward in the Role. Which we have had so far and continuing to branch out with the current tanks with the level cap increases.

2% gain, I honestly expected more out of DRK.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Naoki Yoshida, as you can see most people here want a DPS tank, I mean they want to do damage so think about this: make it a over the edge Damage dealer tank like Warrior.

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Your thread mainly turned into ppl wanting SAM as a DPS Role and not a Tank. Which has been requested since the game came out.

I want Samurai to be a tank because it seems like that would make the most amount of people angry.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...aster-girl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Galaktica

I want Samurai to be a tank because it seems like that would make the most amount of people angry.

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Meh... I'd accept SAM in either. I feel a RDM would add more fuel to the fire.

blue mage tank would awesome weild dual scimatars

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

blue mage tank would awesome weild dual scimatars

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If Blue Mage isn't a caster DPS it's basically a completely wasted job. Stop using Final Fantasy XI as some sort of template that this game should follow by default for its job design. I don't want Samurai to be a tank, but I'm willing to accept that it could still be fitting as one. The same goes for Red Mage potentially being fitting as a Healer (and not at all fitting as a Tank).

Blue Mage as anything but a caster betrays its identity pretty hard.

I just don't understand how RDM is not an answer to the completely "necessary" sword DPS. For that matter BLU(or RDM) the idea of a dual wielding scimitar(rapiers) swordsman DPS should have so many little Kiriho wannabes giggling with glee.

The idea of the massive rework needed to make the vaunted RDM TANK would in essence change many of the core staples of existing tanking mechanics, there by changing the whole way they are played. Effectively, your asking one group to change everything they know to accommodate a single option being proposed by a player base that are not TANKS...

Fending armor already in the game has the dubious honor of being used by three different jobs atm. Do you honestly feel that's a coincidence? An overlooked design flaw? The poles reveal what we all know, Tanking is stressful, full of responsibility, and a necessary role far to often shouldered by far to few. Understanding this, seeing the data in black and white the devs know that any increase, however marginal is absolutely a success. The opposite being a a drop in tanking numbers that would bring an already tenuous balance to a breaking point. We all saw the memes funny as they were they would have echoed far truer had DRK not been introduced.
http://i.imgur.com/CoJDBP7.jpg?1

Take a moment to really think about this objectively, the best way to have a successful launch(jump potions included *retch*) is to have a player base more quickly be allowed to enjoy the newest content as seamlessly as possible. This includes having a balanced set of new job that evenly distribute new and old players among roles needed to gain access to new content. Looking at what the current storyline has established what feasible job could A.) Bring people to a role notorious for unpopularity across every mmo following the trinity system, through sheer popularity of it's real and mythological history. B.) Has a theme not already shared by two already existing jobs(eastern fighter). C,) Would make the most sense to use due to not needing to rework core systems, create new class of gear specifically for it?

I could also mention that assets from Heavensward could be used from when it was first conceptualized as a TANK (tell me again the assets were used for DRK, a job using a greatswords and the power of darkness) and were in fact down to the wire, DRK edging out due to mere setting.

Even as i say this i won't be surprised if it is a DPS, i really hope it's not but the fanboy outcry would be thunderous (or what ever you call lots of really loud wailing). I'll level it once i get through MSQ with my main (even if SAM is a TANK. DRK will stay my main) I'll watch the FATE spaming SAM armies trip over themselves, maybe run some PoTD and watch the FFXIV equivalent to the end of The Last Samurai as they all rush around getting blown up by landmines and other traps. Good times, lot to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

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Ya it is more about getting players to play a Tank in Group content instead of only playing it in non-group content. You can have a entire Map of Players playing SAM Tank or Dark Knight Tank and if you ask all of them, while some how get all of them to answer the question, how many of them even play that Tank Job in group content then majority would probably say they don't bother with Group content, dungeons and etc, which is why they level their Tank Job in easy non-group required contents such as mindlessly grinding FATEs.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

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Regardless of the outcome, it's not something I will personally cry or be upset about. DRK and SAM have backgrounds in the series as both Tanks and DPS. There was some outcry when DRK was announced as a Tank and many wanted it DPS. I feel they did a good job fitting it in XIV as a tank and accepted by the community once ppl got their hands on it.

Community wise SAM will have outcry, just because it has been a popular request since even 1.0 to have a SAM DPS job.

RDM, if SE can make it work in the role they decide, regardless of the outcome. The more the merrier. If anything a RDM DPS will please a ton of former XI players, besides those interested in the job itself. My true intentions and opinion were to have RDM stir the pot this time around.

I know I won't argue whichever class SAM gets but why does everyone assume they will use a giant Katana or sword as well? I mean I didn't play it in 11 but seeing as some people like to pull up historical, they have been known to dual wield as well. Would people still say yay if that is the outcome? Cus only developers know for sure, just gotta keep an open mind.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

I know I won't argue whichever class SAM gets but why does everyone assume they will use a giant Katana or sword as well? I mean I didn't play it in 11 but seeing as some people like to pull up historical, they have been known to dual wield as well. Would people still say yay if that is the outcome? Cus only developers know for sure, just gotta keep an open mind.

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Why do people assume Dragoons use Spears?

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Why do people assume Dragoons use Spears?

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http://www.ffxivinfo.com/items/dragoon.php

Not going to count how many of their official weapons names are "spear" but it's safe to say "a lot" if not "most."

well i hope in 4-5 days they show us if SAM go to come or at least how many jobs and what roles come on 4.0, lets be patients ppl ^^

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/items/dragoon.php

Not going to count how many of their official weapons names are "spear" but it's safe to say "a lot" if not "most."

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http://i.imgur.com/0LwiZHI.png

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

"SEE THESE MINUSCULE SHIFTS IN NUMBERS, THAT MEANS YOU WERE, LIKE, SO WRONG!"

Well, golly gee, 2%, that's almost half the number of people who bothered to play endgame! You're right, cause there couldn't be any possibility that people decided DRK was something they could finally enjoy tanking with, but of course we're not going specify what are current and what are new players, that's obviously not a stat we'd want to know.

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2% is hardly a number to scoff at, even if you lowball the current active subscribers to be around 200,000, that's still 4,000 new tanks. If you go closer to what the likely actual number is in 500,000 active subscribers, that's 10,000.

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And the popularity doubling since last year... when it released in June... before QoL updates... and people getting a feel for the job... over a period of time when a main can get stale for a player often pushing them to try other roles/classes. Let's not worry about what makes the difference though, it said from previous year to current so that's what is important.

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Unfortunately SE botched their graph for this year, and upon looking at it after sleep, the 47% being Dark Knight's is actually more likely meant to be 37%. So not quite doubled, but still significant.
The difference is a bit irrelevant however, especially when very few quality of life changes have been made to things like Dark Knight specifically. On top of the fact that it's widely accepted the best tank in the game is undoubtedly Warrior, yet it's not the most popular tank, means that Dark Knight, through gameplay/appeal/etc. worked as an addition to the tank pool. A "main getting stale" resulting in people trying/leveling tank jobs is still a positive gain, regardless if it's a delayed one, this means it has an actual long term beneficial effect.

The numbers still went up, which is the opposite of the trend from 2014-2015, where tank population dropped from 21% to 19%. It's now back up to 21%. It's a very common argument in these threads that "Adding new tanks won't increase the tank population." Which looking at this information can clearly be seen as untrue.

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Oh, but someone might have said that there was no possible way people would try DRK? Not like it'd make sense that obviously some people are going to try AND like DRK and make a shift in occupation. But you got some fancy numbers to throw around, so who cares about those pesky finer details?

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It's simply quantifiable evidence in response to people who plug their ears and ignore common sense. Of course people who haven't tanked would try AND like DRK, I've been saying it forever, it's the naysayers who come in and say "It's not increasing tank numbers, NOPE, only existing tank players play tank jobs." This is somewhat solid proof from SE that they're wrong.

I still don't see how RDM could possibly work as anything other than a tank. There's literally only one role in the game that can be considered a 'jack-of-all-trades' type of role, and that would be tanks. Tanks can heal, buff, DPS, mitigate, and literally everything in between. RDM as any other role would literally just spit in the face of their identity.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I still don't see how RDM could possibly work as anything other than a tank. There's literally only one role in the game that can be considered a 'jack-of-all-trades' type of role, and that would be tanks. Tanks can heal, buff, DPS, mitigate, and literally everything in between. RDM as any other role would literally just spit in the face of their identity.

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Probably from the poll way back when?
https://i.gyazo.com/9c380507a971c252...3f63413e8f.png
(Click the image to be taken to the poll.)

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Originally Posted by Tint

i wouldn't say a 2% gain in tanks is any proof that DRK lures people to try tanking. i mean: i tried tanking because of DRK, so stuff like this happens. but a 2% gain in tanks over a year? that's not really "luring people". what these numbers show is that many PLD switched to DRK, that's it.

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Still doesn't change the fact Tank numbers went up, compared to their previous downward trend from 2014-2015 where they dropped from 21% to 19%. They're now back up to 21%. And going by their level 60 job breakdown, tanks make up 23% of level 60's, so even more. Also, looking at the job distribution chart for 2016, even if it's just level 60 jobs, we can see that while yes, PLD numbers went down, they didn't make up the full increase in DRK numbers, there was still an additional 1% in WAR and 1% in DRK. You can't say only PLD switched to DRK, as some WAR could switch to DRK, and some PLD could switch to WAR. We don't have any data for that so you can't make a blanket statement like that in any kind of substantial manner.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I still don't see how RDM could possibly work as anything other than a tank. There's literally only one role in the game that can be considered a 'jack-of-all-trades' type of role, and that would be tanks. Tanks can heal, buff, DPS, mitigate, and literally everything in between. RDM as any other role would literally just spit in the face of their identity.

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Except tanks still excel in one area, they aren't a "jack of all trades, master of none". They're masters at mitigating damage, which RDM has never been known for but certainly has tools to do it in past games (Phalanx etc.). Healers in FFXIV can heal, dps, buff, and mitigate as well. So can DPS. Warrior's and Dark Knight's only have self-heals, just like many DPS can bring Second Wind. Only PLD can heal others. One could also argue Mantra bonus healing can be attributed towards the DPS job who put it out (5% bonus for BRD, NIN, DRG while 20% bonus for MNK). It can also be argued that BRD/MCH/NIN's ability to regenerate TP/MP for others is technically a form of 'healing' as well, it's simply healing a different resource that isn't HP.

So you're wrong. The truth is, Red Mage could fit into any of the 3 roles, because pretty much every job in this game is a general "jack of all trades", they can all do damage, buff, debuff, mitigate, and heal to a degree.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I still don't see how RDM could possibly work as anything other than a tank. There's literally only one role in the game that can be considered a 'jack-of-all-trades' type of role, and that would be tanks. Tanks can heal, buff, DPS, mitigate, and literally everything in between. RDM as any other role would literally just spit in the face of their identity.

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Only if you want them to be generalists (which have no place in this game). Also this.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

Blue Mage as anything but a caster betrays its identity pretty hard.

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Kimahri is a blue mage and is a close-range warrior using a spear. Their core identity is using monster abilities, not cast times.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Ya it is more about getting players to play a Tank in Group content instead of only playing it in non-group content. You can have a entire Map of Players playing SAM Tank or Dark Knight Tank and if you ask all of them, while some how get all of them to answer the question, how many of them even play that Tank Job in group content then majority would probably say they don't bother with Group content, dungeons and etc, which is why they level their Tank Job in easy non-group required contents such as mindlessly grinding FATEs.

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100 players.
10 play tank.
SAM is released as a tank, 10 players start playing it, 5 of those in actual group content.
We now have 15 tank players.
I fail to see how the 5 other players who only want to look cool in hubs and stuff are in any way relevant.
Unless you think leveling the job is enough to count you amongst tank players ? So what are the players who level all jobs but only play one role in group content ?
I have SMN leveled but I'm not going to gear it first nor do I play it in high-end content. Am I a dps player ?
I mean, if some people aren't even going to play the job in group content, the only place where job roles matter, you shouldn't count them as tank but as the roles they actually play.
Like seriously I still don't comprehend your logic here and how it's a good argument against the fact popular jobs can make people try tanks.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Community wise SAM will have outcry, just because it has been a popular request since even 1.0 to have a SAM DPS job.

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Most people play dps + SAM is a very popular job = most people will be angry they don't get the toy they wanted.
How is it in any way surprising ? Tanks are a minority but does it mean they shouldn't get nice toys when the dps want them too? Do only the dps deserve it because they are more of them ? Do us tanks only get the leftovers ?
Anyone bringing up stuff like the number of likes this thread got as if it's in any way relevant needs to learn what logic and fairness are before they post.

EDIT : Even if you really want to bring it up, by using the number of likes of the first two posts in this thread you can see around 20% are in favor of SAM tank, almost exactly the % of tank players.
"So if it's the same number how is SAM tank going to help ?" Flawed logic again. If people want SAM as a dps they will support it as a dps, only then if it's released as a tank may they be willing to try it as a tank.