I am disappointed with Deep Dungeon

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Originally Posted by Felis

Don't use the portal after the boss fight

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Yeah, I realize this, and I haven't witnessed this being an issue. I've just read stories on reddit, and it sucks for them.

Hmm... Let me say what I think about PotD after getting my weapon and all.

It took me 6 runs from 1-50 to get my first Padjali Weapon. 300 floors in total. 2 days worth of grinding for me (casually playing).
The rewards are exceptional, so saying there is no reason to do the content because there are no worth rewards is not true. You can get tier V materias, a mount, minions and a weapon with the same ilv as the newest trial, and some have better stats than Horde ones (SCH and BRD one comes to mind - don't start me on SKS vs. DET).
Experience is also high. It gives you about the same bonus EXP a leveling roulette would give you, and it goes even higher the more you go on (I got 800K+ experience on my Summoner for completing 41-50).
Tomes are nice too, you can even get sufficient lore from there to cap for the week, if you go with a level 60 class.

That said, I am aware that this type of content is NOT for everyone. This is designed like a grindy dungeon crawl, where you get rewards by killing mobs and exploring rooms even though they seem empty. It's a mix of old school Final Fantasy/RPGs and games like Ragnarok Online. The frustration of getting mimics most of the times is part of that. This is a very niche content, I agree, but it was extremely well designed. Patch 3.35 is a mid-patch, and on a game as expansive as this one, I find it funny (not to say otherwise) that some people are pissed for the content not catering to them. Savage doesn't caters to me and it's as niche as PotD (or even more niche), but that's ok.

I hope the DEV team continue to expand on the Deep Dungeon as it goes on, because it's an extremely rich content - lore and gameplay-wise - that can be polished to be a complete different and exciting experience from all other content currently in the game.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Hmmm, OK, whenever it was Yellow for me it said no changes. I guess I just wasn't on the appropriate floor yet. Thanks for the extra info

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Floor does not determine any upgrades on the enhance.

Player Level determines if the upgrade is available on the enhance.

Floor determines the sync.

The enhance level determines what level you are required to be to enhance by a modifier value of 2x.

+29 requires you to be level 58 minimum +30 requires level 60. If you speed run through and keep getting to the last boss by 58 you will never get a +30 upgrade. If you are 58-60 by the time you hit the 41-50 block you have the ideal amount of chances to upgrade to +30.

Speed running works for potsherds, but its completely detrimental to aetherpool enhance level grinding.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Floor does not determine any upgrades on the enhance.

Player Level determines if the upgrade is available on the enhance.

Floor determines the sync.

The enhance level determines what level you are required to be to enhance by a modifier value of 2x.

+29 requires you to be level 58 minimum +30 requires level 60. If you speed run through and keep getting to the last boss by 58 you will never get a +30 upgrade. If you are 58-60 by the time you hit the 41-50 block you have the ideal amount of chances to upgrade to +30.

Speed running works for potsherds, but its completely detrimental to aetherpool enhance level grinding.

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I am fairly certain you're not correct about this, but it seems like everyone has a different answer that they are sure is correct.

I am disappointed at the time limit. We need at least 90 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I am fairly certain you're not correct about this, but it seems like everyone has a different answer that they are sure is correct.

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Considering its been working exactly like that ever since I found out? Makes me feel like leaving any group I wind up in that demands a speed run, or only doing the content with FC mates since we go in with standard party setups that can do large pulls and complete the dungeon at speed while hitting 60 at or right before the final floor block.

Also people have been reporting the exact same thing I said on reddit, as well as its success.

If it was based on the floor then explain why people who are speed running are constantly grumbling about lack of upgrades while those who are doing leveling clears are saying its not that grindy?

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Considering its been working exactly like that ever since I found out? Makes me feel like leaving any group I wind up in that demands a speed run, or only doing the content with FC mates since we go in with standard party setups that can do large pulls and complete the dungeon at speed while hitting 60 at or right before the final floor block.

Also people have been reporting the exact same thing I said on reddit, as well as its success.

If it was based on the floor then explain why people who are speed running are constantly grumbling about lack of upgrades while those who are doing leveling clears are saying its not that grindy?

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Again, I've heard people say completely different things reporting it as having it worked as they said. Anyway, this is kind of a silly argument that I don't want to drain my forum post counts on.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Also people have been reporting the exact same thing I said on reddit, as well as its success.

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where on reddit?

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

If it was based on the floor then explain why people who are speed running are constantly grumbling about lack of upgrades while those who are doing leveling clears are saying its not that grindy?

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That is simple to explain: People who speedrun do not really enjoy the content and just want the rewards ASAP, thus, every second spent in there feels longer for them than for people who happily take the extra time to clear everything.

Personally, my own upgrade from +19 to +20 was on floor 23, where my level was like 34 - definitely a far shot from 38. Also heard about people getting their +7 upgrade on level one after resetting and one guy was jubilating over his lvl 30 upgrade - on Floor 42 at level 59. It doesn't quite add up with the theory that it depends on level, so I'm a bit wary myself. I'm not ruling out that the level can be a factor, but I'm disinclined to believe it's the only one that matters. That goes against my own experience.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

where on reddit?

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._informations/

so this image is photoshopped?

http://imgur.com/QWWMCu6

doesn't your finding say to go from 25 to 26 the character level MUST be over 50? it would be impossible for a Lv 47 player to get that?

and this as well

http://imgur.com/a/pCCJ5

Redoing the Palace doesn't reset your weapon/armour stats. Only your level.

I was nearly level 60 for a good stretch of a 31-40 run, and my weapon was +22. It hit +23, but it would not upgrade past that for the remainder of the run over several attempts.

The floor definitely matters in how far up you can level your gear, but character level may have a hand in it as well. nvm, level probably doesn't.

I really, really wish that Vote Abandon was disabled in the Palace.

I had finally managed to upgrade both my weapon and armour to +30 ratings during a floor 40-50 run (which I managed to cap my armour rating in), only for one of the party members to initiate Vote Abandon after we had gotten to Edda. Naturally I declined it in spite of the other two members accepting it, which completely rollbacked my progress. At that point I would've been happy for the other 3 members to leave the instance and wait for either replacements or even solo Edda myself, however I was denied that opportunity and until the update ever happens will need to duke it out with RNGesus to get back to where I was.

This is stupidly ridiculous, if people seriously want to drop out of the run just because they hadn't gotten the upgrades they wanted, why can't they just suffer the 30m penalty (equivalent to a single run) instead?

I'm really disappointed by this "bail at 49" mentality. I understand it sucks if you don't get your upgrade, but I honestly have no sympathy for you if you leave. Thanks to people doing this I wasted hours trying to get one damn potsherd.

Just because it isn't "intentionally wiping" or "voting abandon" doesn't make it any less ok. Again, it sucks having to go through all these floors knowing you might not get an upgrade, but it also sucks getting screwed over by people leaving.

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Originally Posted by Nocte

I had finally managed to upgrade both my weapon and armour to +30 ratings during a floor 40-50 run (which I managed to cap my armour rating in), only for one of the party members to initiate Vote Abandon after we had gotten to Edda. Naturally I declined it in spite of the other two members accepting it, which completely rollbacked my progress. At that point I would've been happy for the other 3 members to leave the instance and wait for either replacements or even solo Edda myself, however I was denied that opportunity and until the update ever happens will need to duke it out with RNGesus to get back to where I was.

This is stupidly ridiculous, if people seriously want to drop out of the run just because they hadn't gotten the upgrades they wanted, why can't they just suffer the 30m penalty (equivalent to a single run) instead?

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Devs, please pay serious attention to this. ;_;

The above are also reasons why I'm not happy with PotD. While I'm not happy with the content itself, I agree this is a major issue that needs fixing for the people that enjoy it. It's ruining people's experiences and there's nothing they can do about it.

The held the content back from 3.3 release so they could get it right, guys its working as intended!

I'm not completely disapointed, but there's a few things that make the experience rather annoying. Two main things come in mind. One, the time limit, as others said before me, 60 minutes is not enough. I'd even push it farther than 90 minutes, or make monsters "drop" time extensions like Dynamis in FF11. Of course if you know already what awaits you on all the floors, you can just rush through and you don't need so much time, but those who are new or want/need time to level up, get all chests, die sometimes and respawn, they are no going to make it to the last floors. Just to exit, enter again and... woops lets redo all this levelling again shall we?


The other imo more annoying thing for me is the interface. It's all cute 8bit if you like, but I can't resize it in the HUD config. I play on ps4, and having this map, that you can set to hide, occupies one tab when pressing the touchpad. The character info, where the inventory is with all the pots and your gear, is under the duty list which is covered by the big blue map, and when I want to access it I need to tap the touchpad a few times which can't be if I'm in a hurry. And when I want to chat, I have to press one more time to get to the chatbox. It really screws everyting I'm used to and is very very unhandy. Why SE didn't just include the character data in the normal main menu like everything else is beyond me.

So to resume, please include character data in the main menu together with inventory and character info, make the blue UI elements resizable, and give us either a longer duty duration or some sort of time extensions triggered by monsters/chests.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

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Couldn't agree more with the layout problem. I thought the same thing with the blue UI elements and spent a lot of time trying to make them comfortable.

Extremely disappointed player here.
I thought after 3 years that Square Enix understood pure stupid rng was a bad idea (atma, horses, etc...). Everytime they fixed (late) their mistake. But here, again, a pure mistake. I am bored of this incompetence. Please spend money and hire good beta testers...

The main problem for me is the following: a three level rng for the silver chests. First, we need to get the silver chests to appear. And it doesnt happen quite often: I noted an average of 4 chests per set of 10 floors on average, they are the rarest of the three types of chests. Compared to ~30 for the gold chest (please dont go against the logic of having silver rarer than gold, change the color system...). Then, once we have a silver chest, it can explose. Seriously? My last run got a 3/4 chest which exploded. Clever and not frustrated at all, thanks. And last but no least (...), the high probability to have the +1 on arm/armor to fail. After some times, the first 40 floors gives nothing to the player, it is a pure waste of time.

My personnal stats so far: +25/+28 after 7 clears. Regarding my last 2 runs (+1 in two runs), I will need 14 additionnal clears to get my 30/30. Each clear is about 2 hours of playtime, when no troll (such as guys making the group wiping on floor 49...). That means what, 40 hours for a i235 weapon? I got 6 NidEx weapons in 15 hours of farm, so byebye PotD... I will do two more clears (got 1 item in a chest) in order to get the mount, then this content will go with all his friends (Verminion, Diadem..): in the toilets.

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I had finally managed to upgrade both my weapon and armour to +30 ratings during a floor 40-50 run (which I managed to cap my armour rating in), only for one of the party members to initiate Vote Abandon after we had gotten to Edda. Naturally I declined it in spite of the other two members accepting it, which completely rollbacked my progress. At that point I would've been happy for the other 3 members to leave the instance and wait for either replacements or even solo Edda myself, however I was denied that opportunity and until the update ever happens will need to duke it out with RNGesus to get back to where I was.

This is stupidly ridiculous, if people seriously want to drop out of the run just because they hadn't gotten the upgrades they wanted, why can't they just suffer the 30m penalty (equivalent to a single run) instead?

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Yeah, that's horrid.

They really should change vote abandon by now to only remove the people that vote yes.

PF works pretty well for this, and if you get a nice DF match that you can communicate with, I try to speed run the first 40 after looking at everyone's Aetherpool levels, then wiping and starting over if 41-50 give nothing useful.

I just got my first weapon and the mount today, I got pretty lucky overall with my first set up upgrades. When you get to the later floors, always at least try and announce your intentions with the group. I'm tempted to make a macro later to save myself the effort because I'd rather do DD with friends and get easily capped tomes and chances at Potsherds and better 235 weapons than the select Nidhogg weapons I already have.
Usually my message is like: "Hey, will be doing big pulls whenever possible, if the group majority wants to we can wipe after clearing 49 if we didn't get good upgrades, I'll delegate what Poms should be used when and determine how we clear." I usually go as Tank so I try and just take charge and determine how we run the last few floors, I have gotten one or two really good parties that followed my lead, cooperated, and responded and a lot were thankful that someone was about being efficient and smart(not opening chests mid-pull and letting tank be furthest ahead to eat any traps instead of healer or SMN eating one then dying and us wiping). Sometimes you get Pacify traps or Frog traps and DPS has to tank one or two mobs, but I'd rather just I die and get raised and we clean up and keep going then the whole group die because we grouped too close together.

While my first run in was pretty boring because I used to play a ton of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games and even those had more depth and difficulty than DD does, It's gotten a little bit more fun just doing insane pulls and then Wtiching them or going through and getting tons of chest with Fortune/Affluence up, I still don't think it was worth the wait though. It's far too simple and RNG based to be worth how long we waited for this, it should have came out with Nidhogg and everything else so it wasn't the only thing everyone is doing. Because it is because this wasn't even a patch, 3.35 was more of a hotfix than an actual patch when DD was literally the only piece of added content, the rest was QoL fixes and PvP adjustments. This was not something that should have came out on it's own nearly two months later.

well i got my clear in 12 whole lovely runs not including d/c and reruns, so i might get a mount and some materia.... but wow... just torture lol

Cons:
-This is plain out a grind. The floors.
- You get asshats that i often read wipe pt :(
- 4 of the same classes is a nono for auto parties. Ok in lower lv but no after 41+
- Your either lucky or unlucky regardless what pple tell.
You can do all the methods and kill even the germs of the palace but when you dont get a blue/silver chest, you just wont get it.
(for me that included being lv59-60 @ 41F)

Pros
- 3-4 of the same classes in the mid dungeon levels kinda help you learn to cooperate, what works better.
- After you encounter someone bombing the place, thereafter aggroing the crowd of mobs, and then triggering a mass monster poppage.... Your reflexes get better than some other roulette/Ex. Especially for mages.
- Weapon is nice depending on class design (I went as AST)

I do find it pretty funny that the majority of the issue people seem to have is more player related than it is system related. I think the system has tons of faults and was released a little half baked (Maybe on purpose to gauge player response? wouldn't surprise me with how SE seems out of touch with what most players actually want)

But most complaints are pretty much from the inability of SE to foresee how there system while in theory works if a group is cooperative they also decided to tack on a duty finder of sorts to match with random people. Random people who have no qualms with ruining another persons day due to the lack of social blow-back from being said numskull. People need to learn as long as they clamor for SE to do the whole duty finder thing with any and all content your gonna find people who literally go out of their way to be selfish jackholes because there is no incentive not to and only things to gain from acting in such a way.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, that's horrid.

They really should change vote abandon by now to only remove the people that vote yes.

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This is the result of rng.
I keep saying it shouldn't be in here (and other places), yet people reply and argue against this.

Well there's ongoing and increasing proof that it causes major issues here.
People wiping the party
Several people leaving before the final boss - who wants to find themselves entering 41-50 and finding themselves faced with just the last boss?
People just giving up with it, due not to their ability or effort, but watching others get advanced whilst they go nowhere.

Get rid of this rng - I don't care if PotD is modeled on some other me lucky/you not lucky gimmicky game. Copying something in only works if the model is appropriate for an AAA mmo. - Here it blatantly isn't.
Even then it points to the team struggling for independent ideas.

Developers - surely you've got more about you than to copy some seemingly adhoc rng game, coupled with a character and map ui that looks like it's fallen off a mobile phone screen.
Rework this, bring the same level of care and attention to it that you bring to the story quests.

Faced with 150 more floors of rng, no duty finder, intentional wiping, unannounced leaving in front of the last boss - now there's something to look forward to.......

What I find silly is that those who wipe the group, or leave before the boss, or vote abandon do not understand one simple thing:

Killing the boss does not save progress. Using the exit portal saves progress.

They can go all the way to floor 50, kill the boss, and if they did not get any upgrades in the run just leave without using the exit portal. Progress wont be saved and they can continue running 41-50 trying to get an upgrade. While those who did get an upgrade can save their progress.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

What I find silly is that those who wipe the group, or leave before the boss, or vote abandon do not understand one simple thing:

Killing the boss does not save progress. Using the exit portal saves progress.

They can go all the way to floor 50, kill the boss, and if they did not get any upgrades in the run just leave without using the exit portal. Progress wont be saved and they can continue running 41-50 trying to get an upgrade. While those who did get an upgrade can save their progress.

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It's likely to be players who haven't got anything from the run. Even getting +1 from the boss isn't going to be that much of an incentive to stay.
Finger in the air a bit here, but I'd guess people are looking for a overall combined total of +2 as an absolute minimum from the run. Even this won't stop some people leaving until they get better luck.

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What I find silly is that those who wipe the group, or leave before the boss, or vote abandon do not understand one simple thing:

Killing the boss does not save progress. Using the exit portal saves progress.

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People won't understand that because

1) the game never outright tells you you can do that
2) Nearly every other dungeon/trial in the game is considered completed as soon as the last boss dies, NOT when you hit the exit. This is why you often have people who open the Duty Finder menu to exit a completed duty after the boss dies, rather than have to take a few extra seconds to run to the exit.

To me it's perfectly understandable and justifiable why people don't get it.

The best thing they could have done to remedy this was to put an option on the exit allowing you to exit without saving (in other words, giving up your progress as if you had just left the duty or wiped or whatever).

The reason most people are wiping groups at floor 50 (or refusing to continue at floor 49) is because they are under the impression that if that boss dies, they are boned and have to start again from floor 1. They don't even realize that there is a way to not save their progress even after the boss dies. Until it's spelled out for them (or until a good chunk of the RNG factor is removed), I fear this behavior will continue :/

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

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On PS4, you can actually move the map by using the virtual mouse option for your controller. Thats what I did to move it because yes omg it was so terrible there. Couldn't stand it..

I'm not sure if it can be made smaller however.

Actually deep dungeon is based off the deep dungeon from FFT...go look it up you'll see.

It's Palace of the Dead from Tactics Ogre.
http://i.imgur.com/Wa9FjzJ.jpg

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

On PS4, you can actually move the map by using the virtual mouse option for your controller. Thats what I did to move it because yes omg it was so terrible there. Couldn't stand it..

I'm not sure if it can be made smaller however.

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Yes you can move it, but honestly, I haven't found an ideal spot for it considering the huge size. I moved it a little bit, but I can't fit it correctly without cluttering the screen or have it on top of other things D:

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Yes you can move it, but honestly, I haven't found an ideal spot for it considering the huge size. I moved it a little bit, but I can't fit it correctly without cluttering the screen or have it on top of other things D:

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you can resize the map and the character window thing with the pomanders, by activating it then pressing r3 ( I think, might be l3)

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Originally Posted by randysquirrel

you can resize the map and the character window thing with the pomanders, by activating it then pressing r3 ( I think, might be l3)

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I will try again :D I'm sure I tried it before but maybe I'm being silly.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Yes you can move it, but honestly, I haven't found an ideal spot for it considering the huge size. I moved it a little bit, but I can't fit it correctly without cluttering the screen or have it on top of other things D:

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I keep it closed unless need to look real quick.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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Except the end portal explicitly tells you its saving your progress. "Would you like to save your progress and exit the dungeon?"

I guess most people just do not read the exit portal text otherwise they would know this.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Except the end portal explicitly tells you its saving your progress. "Would you like to save your progress and exit the dungeon?"

I guess most people just do not read the exit portal text otherwise they would know this.

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People don't read anything in general. Why was Steps of Faith "hard"? People ignored the NPC barking orders. Why do we have people at level 60 not knowing basic rotations? They don't read their skill info and tooltips. Why do we got players that don't understand the story or make false assumptions? Because they speed through the text to reach the end game where they can sit in Idylshire with their friends.

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Except the end portal explicitly tells you its saving your progress. "Would you like to save your progress and exit the dungeon?"

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Thing is, that isn't even true. It gets saved if you voluntarily exit after killing the boss, even if you don't use the portal (for instance, it gets saved if you kill the boss then open the DF menu and select leave, in which case the prompt that comes up is the usual "Abandon duty?" and mentions nothing about saving). The exit portal has nothing to do with saving your progress.

Once people realize this, it's not exactly difficult to make the logical leap and assume that it's killing the boss that saves your progress. The game never makes an effort to tell you "oh, you can avoid saving by d/cing yourself, as unintuitive as that is!"

This isn't a matter of not reading, it's a matter of the right information not being written to us.

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People don't read anything in general. Why was Steps of Faith "hard"? People ignored the NPC barking orders.

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Again, not really a matter of not reading, it was a combined matter of mechanics still being unclear despite what the NPC said + the fight being way too 1-shotty in general for anyone besides tanks.

Plenty of people did not, and still do not, know how to use the cannons. The cannons were pretty much vital pre-nerf and even post-nerf they are highly, highly advised. In addition to this, tanks that don't realize that focusing any effort on Vishap is useless and they should be positioning adds in front of Vishap to get cannoned, and DPS not realizing that unlike nearly any other fight with adds in the game, they actually should not be focusing on adds here, and should be saving them for the cannons. If any one of these things is going wrong, the effectiveness of the cannons drops significantly.

If nobody else besides you has done the fight before you can pretty much guarantee that you're on dragonkiller duty, because nobody else will know where to go to activate those. They're kinda off the beaten path and nothing really indicates "hey, go up here", and by the time anyone figures it out the opportunity will probably already be lost. What to do with the snares on the 2nd and 3rd dragonkiller isn't intuitive to everyone, either (and also something the NPC does not specifically instruct you on how to handle).

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

It's Palace of the Dead from Tactics Ogre.
http://i.imgur.com/Wa9FjzJ.jpg

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Palace of the Dead is just this set of floors. The content is called Deep Dungeon.