3.1 MSQ Reaction [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I have my doubts we'd be taking back Ala Mhigo, I still think it's too obvious. If they aren't going to be very ambitious with the plot then yeah, we'll just take back Ala Mhigo but it would be interesting if they have something else in store.

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We know of the refugees wanted to take back alamihgo, but it has been at least a generation.

What if the people there don't want to go back to eorzea? Or see themselves as a nation in the middle of a new war they never wanted?

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

I have my doubts we'd be taking back Ala Mhigo, I still think it's too obvious. If they aren't going to be very ambitious with the plot then yeah, we'll just take back Ala Mhigo but it would be interesting if they have something else in store.

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Be sure we wil go there, but you right is too obious. That might indicate that the retake of the city will not be the big theme of the next expansion.

I'm a huge Negative Nancy about Ala Mhigo and any expansion that will take place there, so I think it would be more interesting if a part or the majority of Ala Mhigo was destroyed by whatever major threat is at the end of the 3.X series, a la Isle of Val. That would mean when we go there we're faced with chaos and death and have to help restore order and a solid government, focusing on the multiple political factions that may arise when there is a power vacuum (preferably with most of them having a justified and "right" viewpoint so things aren't black and white), rather than doing the rather cliche "liberate" storyline.

There is still Omega weapon ... perhaps Ilberd will luck out and manage to take hold of it? Use that to then destroy the remaining forces of Garlean-Controlled Ala Mhigo?

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Originally Posted by myahele

There is still Omega weapon ... perhaps Ilberd will luck out and manage to take hold of it? Use that to then destroy the remaining forces of Garlean-Controlled Ala Mhigo?

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This could be true, but he could also loose control of it and do more damage than he intended.

Honestly it doesn't matter to me if we go to Ala Mhingo for the next expansion. Though the place I really want to visit is the garlean empire. I imagine a city build with all kinds of Magitech and instead of an Atheryte system they have some like a teleporter system where you talk to an attendant and you pop next to another one in the part of the city you wanted. Also things like elevators and such. Can't you tell I love robotic stuff? XD

I think one way or another Garlemald will move to being a central threat soon. We have been having continued build up towards another attempt by them to take Eorzea. I cant see them dragging that out forever. It would be very suprising if such a conflict doesn't take place in 4.0 and Ala Mhigo is the obvious battleground for it as its effectively the Garlean's staging area in Eorzea.

Even if Ala Mhigo isn't next for some reason, there is very little chance we will go to Garlemald before liberating Ala Mhigo, as well as right now Garlemald is probably too well defended. If in the next xpac we deal a crushing blow to their forces (like taking down multiple Legates and the like), we might be able to invad Garlemald, with the xpac after it being going to Ala Mhigo where the final battle against the Garlean Empire would take place (as whoever powerful was left would have flee'd to it basically)

But basically at best I see Ala Mhigo being 4.0, and Garlemald being either 5.0, MAYBE 6.0.

To me, Ala Mhigo (Gyr Abania) seems like Ishgard (Abalathia's Spine) and Sharlayan (Dravania) - backstory given to a region before that region is in the game specifically so there's an excuse both why you can't go there now and why you should go there later. I don't imagine that either we'd skip it or that it would be the cliche liberation.

My personal preference at this given moment would be that our involvement just completely tears that nation apart. Cities at landbridges between realms usually have a long history of conflict. Driving out the core Imperial structure would create a power vacuum into which would be drawn Garlean loyalists, Kingdom loyalists, reformists, Fists of Rhalgr, upstarts... I'd love it to be a city like Whitegate - full of interesting characters and factions and perpetually in conflict for the rest of the game.

We've seen as much Garlean military as we have Allagan remnants, though, so unless we're in for more than cermet and magitek and bleak black fortresses, I don't really care to see the homeland, lol. The throne room didn't look much different than a castrum. Unless we forge some truce and have an excuse to see a unique culture going back farther than their military industrial revolution, I'd rather they just collapsed off screen like the previous Emperor and let us go about our business somewhere like Thavnair or Othard or, hells, even the New World.

Going to another continent is too much development, I really think we will first fill every space of Aldenard ( Eorzea ) after going to Ilsabard or Orthard.
Also not that Ala Mhigo's military forces were strong enought to challenge Garlemand? Maybe thats gonna be our motivation to plan an invation to the empire once Ala Mhigo is free.

PD: On an earlier comment I post 4.0 is main theme is not gonna be war type, thats most probably gonna be once we start our firsts offensive strikes on the empire, if that ever happen. Makes more sence.

I think we need something to happen first that enables us to take our skills and gear beyond Eorzea's borders, since I'm pretty sure the setting is still as such that we wouldn't be as powerful in a less aether-dense region. As for what, I have only the wildest fringe theories that aren't really supported by anything concrete. Yet.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I think we need something to happen first that enables us to take our skills and gear beyond Eorzea's borders, since I'm pretty sure the setting is still as such that we wouldn't be as powerful in a less aether-dense region. As for what, I have only the wildest fringe theories that aren't really supported by anything concrete. Yet.

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Allagan tech >o<

Yeah ... I keep forgetting that Ala Mhigans were supposedly the most technologically advanced nation in Eorzea. The Sharlayans technology is quite impressive ... yet they are trumped by the Ala Mhigans? That really speaks to how far the Ala Mhigo has fallen. It might also explain why the Ala Mhigan resistance have survived all this time, then again such things are possible in our own world.

I can see maybe Ala Mhigan liberation done off screen depending when we kill of the Emperor and the Regulus and destroy the Gration.

I still think Ilberd will find a way to get Omega. Unless he pulls an Iceheart and we travel with him and Raubahn, lol

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah ... I keep forgetting that Ala Mhigans were supposedly the most technologically advanced nation in Eorzea. The Sharlayans technology is quite impressive ... yet they are trumped by the Ala Mhigans? That really speaks to how far the Ala Mhigo has fallen. It might also explain why the Ala Mhigan resistance have survived all this time, then again such things are possible in our own world.

I can see maybe Ala Mhigan liberation done off screen depending when we kill of the Emperor and the Regulus and destroy the Gration.

I still think Ilberd will find a way to get Omega. Unless he pulls an Iceheart and we travel with him and Raubahn, lol

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I could be wrong, but I thought Ala Mhigo was the greatest military power in Eorzea, not necessarily the most technologically advanced.

If we are building up to Ala Mihgo (which seems very likely), I expect the 3.x story to end on a 'optimistic' note. I mean this in contrast to how the end of 2.x ended on a 'darkest hour' note, leading into Heavensward, which had a more grim tone to the story overall. In contrast to the morale-shattering Before the Fall, though, I suspect 3.x will end on the opposite note, as there will have to be high morale among both the Scions and the Alliance in order to start moving against the Empire in a significant capacity. Especially for something as huge as taking back Ala Mihgo.

For this reason, despite the shift into darker fantasy, I'm fairly optimistic about the ending of the 3.x story. (Watch me eat these words by the end of next year.)

I would also expect the story to shift to a more 'epic' tone. While HW's story is great, it had a reduced scope from the ARR story since we're dealing with problems specific to Ishgard, rather then Eorzea as a whole. An Ala Mihgo expansion will likely accompany an re-focus on the Garlean Empire, and with that a re-expanded scope.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

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By the end of 3.x we shall have most of the Scions back (maybe all depending on what Yda and Paplymo do, though having them not quite with us again yet gives us another reason to go there), Ishgard finally getting together and making progress to peace...not completely there since they are showing already that it'll take time but it'll be much better off by the end of 3.x

Estinien will either be saved and help with said peace, or will end up making a noble sacrifice to end Nidhogg for good (as his hate is far too much to ever think of peace), or as part of my headcanon to off Lahabrea for good.

Yea you right Alisa, I dont see 3.x 's end on a same way was 2.x. So everything will go back to 0? naa, cant be.

I'm not sure how 'liberating' Ala Mhigo would be a 'high note'. The Ala Mhigans aren't the good guys, nor are the Garleans necessarily the bad guys. Quite a lot of people sympathised with Gaius' motives and wanted to ally with him rather than the Scions. If Ala Mhigo is liberated it will be through blood. Calling it now. How many atrocities have been orchestrated in the name of 'Ala Mhigo'? How many economic migrants from the region demand the world because they've been displaced willingly? It's far fromblackand white.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not sure how 'liberating' Ala Mhigo would be a 'high note'. The Ala Mhigans aren't the good guys, nor are the Garleans necessarily the bad guys. Quite a lot of people sympathised with Gaius' motives and wanted to ally with him rather than the Scions. If Ala Mhigo is liberated it will be through blood. Calling it now. How many atrocities have been orchestrated in the name of 'Ala Mhigo'? How many economic migrants from the region demand the world because they've been displaced willingly? It's far fromblackand white.

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It clearly is, but to play Devil's Advocate...

... while Gaius had sympathetic motives on the surface, deep down he was little more than an ambitious, power-hungry conquerer like the rest of the Garleans. He had standards, and a point that Eorzeans likely turn to gods because they're not strong enough to accept hardship, but ultimately the reason he wanted to conquer Eorzea was to prove that he could do so. (It's also why he opposed Project Meteor, as using a cataclysmic weapon of mass destruction to lay waste to the land would leave nothing worth conquering.)

The Ala Mhigans are belligerent and ill-tempered, but that's likely a product of their warrior culture, and having their homeland occupied likely just makes it worse. Driving out the Garleans and repatriating the Ala Mhigans won't solve all their problems, but it would be a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not sure how 'liberating' Ala Mhigo would be a 'high note'. The Ala Mhigans aren't the good guys, nor are the Garleans necessarily the bad guys. Quite a lot of people sympathised with Gaius' motives and wanted to ally with him rather than the Scions. If Ala Mhigo is liberated it will be through blood. Calling it now. How many atrocities have been orchestrated in the name of 'Ala Mhigo'? How many economic migrants from the region demand the world because they've been displaced willingly? It's far fromblackand white.

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I never said the liberation of Ala Mihgo itself would be a 'high note.' Actually, that was poor wording on my part and hence I've edited my post accordingly. I meant that in comparison to the lead-in to Heavenswards, I expect the lead-in to a potential Ala Mihgo expansion, and in extension the end of 3.x, to be more optimistic.

No matter which way you look at it, reaching a point where Ala Mihgo can safely serve as the main city for an expansion like Ishgard was for HW implies a *huge* victory over Garlemald by the Alliance. Which also carries plenty of other hopeful implications.

I'm not sure we will immediately have access to Ala Mhigo when that expansion comes. It may be that the first part is fighting our way in and establishing a "camp" of sorts that's friendly to us, then continuing to liberate the city piece by piece.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

I can't, because he's essentially torturing generation after generation of people who where fed lies from infancy and living under a government that brutally kills anyone who digresses from their 'true belief'. (Seeing this typed out, it sounds awfully familiar...). Then again, I don't really like many of the Ishardians, either, since many we meet are utter jerks. Still, I feel with the lower classes and hope Aymeric will be able to acutally improve their lifes.

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If you think about it from the dragons' perspective though, just about every Ishgardian is descended from those knights and therefore have Ratatoskr's blood in them, therefore their very existence is a reminder of that betrayal. When you look at it that way, Nidhogg's inability to get over it is much more understandable.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

My personal preference at this given moment would be that our involvement just completely tears that nation apart. Cities at landbridges between realms usually have a long history of conflict. Driving out the core Imperial structure would create a power vacuum into which would be drawn Garlean loyalists, Kingdom loyalists, reformists, Fists of Rhalgr, upstarts... I'd love it to be a city like Whitegate - full of interesting characters and factions and perpetually in conflict for the rest of the game.

We've seen as much Garlean military as we have Allagan remnants, though, so unless we're in for more than cermet and magitek and bleak black fortresses, I don't really care to see the homeland, lol. The throne room didn't look much different than a castrum. Unless we forge some truce and have an excuse to see a unique culture going back farther than their military industrial revolution, I'd rather they just collapsed off screen like the previous Emperor and let us go about our business somewhere like Thavnair or Othard or, hells, even the New World.

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Likely any involvement with Ala Mhigo *will* cause conflict because it's pretty much under Garlean rule, but like you, that is exactly what I want to see out of that place. I'm also not interested in seeing more Garlean-style fortresses and other dark and imposing buildings, and I would like for Ala Mhigo to have a culture if it should be visited. However, as I mentioned before, I'm more interested in us going to the Sharlayan country. Don't know whether it would be in the cards, but it seems inevitable to eventually address their issues of non-interference.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

It clearly is, but to play Devil's Advocate...

... while Gaius had sympathetic motives on the surface, deep down he was little more than an ambitious, power-hungry conquerer like the rest of the Garleans. He had standards, and a point that Eorzeans likely turn to gods because they're not strong enough to accept hardship, but ultimately the reason he wanted to conquer Eorzea was to prove that he could do so. (It's also why he opposed Project Meteor, as using a cataclysmic weapon of mass destruction to lay waste to the land would leave nothing worth conquering.)

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Yup, that's exactly what I've been saying: Gaius is ultimately just another Garlean with motives that don't much differ from his comrades'. He doesn't conquer for the good of others, but it's what he pretends to justify his actions. He makes several good points about Eorzea and its Primals but goes about dealing with them the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

If you think about it from the dragons' perspective though, just about every Ishgardian is descended from those knights and therefore have Ratatoskr's blood in them, therefore their very existence is a reminder of that betrayal. When you look at it that way, Nidhogg's inability to get over it is much more understandable.

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Yes, maybe. But if we all thought like this, we probably would have died out centuries ago, because peaceful coexistence couldn't be possible. I don't want to drag real live politics in here, but imagine what would have happened with this mindset after WWII...


And even then, torturing the greatgrandson/daughter of someone who killed your sister won't bring her back alive, it won't help anyone and will only create more hate and bloodshed in the long run, on both sides. It is meaningless. But that's exactly what happened here; Nidhogg condemned not only Ishgard, but his own children, too. And that's something I got no understanding for.

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Likely any involvement with Ala Mhigo *will* cause conflict because it's pretty much under Garlean rule, but like you, that is exactly what I want to see out of that place. I'm also not interested in seeing more Garlean-style fortresses and other dark and imposing buildings, and I would like for Ala Mhigo to have a culture if it should be visited. However, as I mentioned before, I'm more interested in us going to the Sharlayan country. Don't know whether it would be in the cards, but it seems inevitable to eventually address their issues of non-interference.

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I'm absolutely not interested in Ala Mhigo... everything I've seen from Ala Mhigans, with some exceptions like Raubahn and Wilred, was very negative. I don't want to help them. However, in the long run, it will be necessary to liberate the place, and yes, there will be conflict at this time. Besides, I think Yoshida mentioned they would bring the Garleans back within this patch cycle, so it is possible we will be heading there soon. Even though I would like to see other places much more as well. However, I got the feeling I would punch in one face or the other over at Sharlayan, so not sure if that's the best place to be for me :D

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Yes, maybe. But if we all thought like this, we probably would have died out centuries ago, because peaceful coexistence couldn't be possible. I don't want to drag real live politics in here, but imagine what would have happened with this mindset after WWII...

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Imagine that you have lived for over 100,000 years. 100 years of that is just a tiny tiny fraction. In fact, it's pretty hard for us to imagine because we won't even live close to that long. They live their lives much differently than we do. Their concept of time is very different. Thousands of years and Tiamat still has to punish herself.

And it's not like Nidhogg's thoughts are shared totally by Midgardsomr and his other children. But they do understand the hate and anger. Some of them would like to get past that, yes. Nidhogg is one hateful dragon but I can't completely blame him just as I can't completely blame the current generation of innocent Ishgardians.

I guess I'm somewhat disappointed in how they revealed F'lhaminn and Hoary Boulder are hiding in Thavnair via npc dialogue and not a very short cutscene of Riol telling us that they're there.

It's something that can easily be missed by a majority of people since not many bother speaking to all these npcs.

Also, I feel rather sorry for Artoirel. He risked his life (more or less) to help in the Vault and all his father said was how he considers Aymeric another son and would not want to lose him, either. Didn't even bother to acknowledge Artoirel :(

Regarding Vidofnir, I do agree that she "must have been circling for hours" as Thancred said. She was most likely waiting for the right moment to make an appearance and her saving the girl-while not planned- could not have been a better moment to do so in a PR sense. At the very least she was waiting to have the "go to" to enter Ishgard. She may have been invited, but I'm sure she's smart enough to wait for a signal to enter

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Originally Posted by myahele

Also, I feel rather sorry for Artoirel. He risked his life (more or less) to help in the Vault and all his father said was how he considers Aymeric another son and would not want to lose him, either. Didn't even bother to acknowledge Artoirel :(

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I feel bad for him, too. He's both responsible and sane - a rare combination in Ishgard. The only time he made me upset was when he cosplayed as his half-brother. As a player I knew he would likely come out of the Vault unscathed but my character was so much in shock upon seeing his outfit and hearing those same words that she wanted to lock him in a tower to prevent another Fortemps casualty.

I saw an old post in reddit that showed part of Yda's face prior to 2.55

http://i.imgur.com/4NW1eeF.png

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Originally Posted by myahele

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Maybe she is half highlander, we discover she doenst have eyebrowns! xD

From the newest interview:
Yoshida: Speaking of "the void," what's on the other side in another world was also a theme back in FFXI. As things progress and you find out the true purpose of the Warriors of Darkness, you'll start to see connections with elements surrounding the void, so things should get interesting.

Preeeeeetty sure he's going to go WotG on us, as many of us expected.

And it's going to be amazing.

Edit: Translated source: https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12....1-Impressions

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

From the newest interview:
Yoshida: Speaking of "the void," what's on the other side in another world was also a theme back in FFXI. As things progress and you find out the true purpose of the Warriors of Darkness, you'll start to see connections with elements surrounding the void, so things should get interesting.

Preeeeeetty sure he's going to go WotG on us, as many of us expected.

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Isn't that the "depressing" xpac of XI (wouldn't know, haven't played the game enough to know its story)?

Yep, basically. Probably the most depressing FFXI expansion, but everyone knew going into it that it would be at least partially morbid for reasons I'm not going to bother explaining to someone not interested in XI's lore because it would take a rather large post.

tl;dr version of Wings of the Goddess that Yoshi is referring to:

It starts off with Atomos appearing in your world and sucking you into the past to the Great War against the Shadowlord, which wasn't too far before the events of normal XI. A bit longer than the time skip from 1.0 to 2.0 in XIV, but it had a similar effect on the game's lore.

You meet another girl from the present there and work with her to discern why you're there. Eventually, she starts fading from existence and people stop remembering her entirely, as if she never existed.

More things happen. Odin is involved, like he is in almost everything in FFXI. He's a much more powerful figure in XI, ruling the underworld and everything in it. The introduction of Hades made his role slightly more unclear when it comes to what he controls, but I won't bother getting into it, since that's a different expansion. tl;dr of the Odin tl;dr: Void, void, void, void.

Eventually it's revealed that the FFXI world you've been playing in the entire time is a "fake" world, created by the Goddess Altana because she did not like how the Great War ended. But this fake world is encroaching on the true world, and that's messing everything up. So Atomos, the Devourer of Time, is trying to completely devour your world to fix the "error" of your emotional, rather short-sighted but well-intentioned Goddess, which is collapsing all of existence.

In the true FFXI world (not yours), the girl you're with has a pact with Odin and you're her favored servant as a Spitewarden. Which basically puts you at the very top of the food chain, too. The most relevant comparison in XIV would be an Ascian, since the Spitewardens have control over Demons, many of which are voidsent in XIV, such as Imps and Shadowdragons - the AK NM final boss or that dragon in the recent FFXI event FATE.

You don't fix things, not really.

You satisfy Atomos by sending one anomaly (the girl you're with who is a demoness in the true world) to the other world to replace the demoness. Everyone forgets about her and it's as if she never existed in everyone's memory but yours. Also, your world still is the fake one and Atomos is still there, a looming shadow but no longer a direct threat.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

tl;dr version of Wings of the Goddess that Yoshi is referring to

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This is interesting, because I've read on the headcanon thread (I think) a theory/headcanon that the version of Hydaelyn we're playing on was in fact a Primal world created by the Phoenix/Bahamut battle during the Calamity (and that no one actually time traveled to the future)

There's about four alternate dimension storylines I can think of in XI and I believe the most recent one was the finale (which had direct ties to the Void I've heard). Wings of the Goddess is the first in that list, but there's still other "options."

Maybe the "rejoining" is meant to rejoin these split dimensions/time lines?

I think it's worth mentioning that once Exdeath made it known that his objective was restoring the world to its original form, Bartz's immediate knee-jerk assumption is that it is a world of evil.

(Classic Bartz: he's completely wrong. Sorta. The evil plan comes into effect after the worlds are merged.)

Which is, as always, not to say that this is what must happen here, just that there's an in-series precedent for this sort of misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by Rocl

There's about four alternate dimension storylines I can think of in XI and I believe the most recent one was the finale (which had direct ties to the Void I've heard). Wings of the Goddess is the first in that list, but there's still other "options."

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Abyssea, WotG, Rhapsodies, and which? Dynamis? I'm not entirely sure I'd consider Dynamis something he's referring to there, it's not an alternate dimension in the same way. It would fit Morningstar's "Primal world" though.

I personally see Abyssea basically doing exactly the same thing to the story of XIV as WotG would, which is changing history at one point for the worse due to things that did or didn't happen. This one has equally interesting implications, because it deals with Promathia's change, not Altana's.

Rhapsodies is a change in the future, yes?

Actually, all of the alternate FFXI worlds are depressing, what the hell.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Maybe the "rejoining" is meant to rejoin these split dimensions/time lines?

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Maybe the Rejoining is a transdimensional collapse of the Final Fantasy Multiverse back into a single world.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Abyssea, WotG, Rhapsodies, and which? Dynamis? I'm not entirely sure I'd consider Dynamis something he's referring to there, it's not an alternate dimension in the same way. It would fit Morningstar's "Primal world" though.

I personally see Abyssea basically doing exactly the same thing to the story of XIV as WotG would, which is changing history at one point for the worse due to things that did or didn't happen. This one has equally interesting implications, because it deals with Promathia's change, not Altana's.

Rhapsodies is a change in the future, yes?

Actually, all of the alternate FFXI worlds are depressing, what the hell.

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Every timeline but "the main reality" is royally screwed. The fourth in question was the Voidwalker/Provenance storyline where we end up in a world where the Mothercrystal never shattered or something. (And I have a whole lot of reservations about a lot of the XI-Alternates with the way their pantheon is structured.)

Dynamis was a side-pocket of "the main reality" maybe? Again, the way their pantheon is set up in XI is needlessly confusing to me, lol.

So where exactly would Zodiark fit into all of that though?

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

This is interesting, because I've read on the headcanon thread (I think) a theory/headcanon that the version of Hydaelyn we're playing on was in fact a Primal world created by the Phoenix/Bahamut battle during the Calamity (and that no one actually time traveled to the future)

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This would mean everyone other than those at carteneu would of been primals as well since bahamut's calamity didn't reach the entire planet from what i can recall, it changed it a fair amount but eorzea suffered the most damage.