Not only that, but aren't they going to be releasing a new bunny outfit that's a bit more detailed and how it's dyed? Similar to i100 vs 110 PvP gearQuote:
Originally Posted by Eul
At this point, I'd rather they start focussing their attention in making ALL gear dyeable; when it come to glamour their reasoning never make sense: mages can wear metal plated armor ... law and gordian gear are metal-plated, color swapped gear for different jobs, DoW being able to wear DoM stuff.
The current Halloween even is perfectly shows what they think of male glamour.
So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?
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10-31-2015, 12:16 PMmyahele
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10-31-2015, 03:41 PMGemmaAm I the only one who is annoyed that they are planning to add Hairstyles to the Mog Station regardless of if its a MSQ one or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grekumah
I mean to me (Not like I was ever in favor of the Mog Station anyways but nevertheless) it's one thing to add past event items and call it "Optional Items" or dyes/minions/mounts because yes those are optional, they do not directly effect my Character.
But a hairstyle is Character Customization, that shouldn't be considered "Optional Items", everyone should be able to have access to all character customization options (Yes I am also including the Lightning hairstyles, not saying I want the event but it should be made available to everyone. Clothes/weapons on the other hand, go ahead and sell on the Mog Station).
To me that's the equivalent of SE adding one new face option to all Races/Genders and making you buy it on the Mog Station, or the butt sliders everyone wanted...
"You want to have some junk in the trunk? $10 and you can be bootylicious!" (-_-) -
10-31-2015, 03:47 PMBreathlessTaoAnd you know, besides these raw numbers, there's another part of the issue that should also be highlighted: how so much of the unisex glamour items (and indeed quite a lot of actual relevant/endgame gear too) are so clearly designed with only the females in mind. Whether it's someone's personal aesthetic or not doesn't even matter, because it is a fact - cue that other thread with OP asking for more masculine outfits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
...and then you get a new keyboard, I hope. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
YES thank you, I've been meaning to mention that myself, because I too remember them saying so, that because of that, they design the new things for female models first. And I do agree it's kind of ... shady, at least, to be quite honest (even if it would explain pretty much everything). But even if it's true - why does that seem to be stopping them from actually properly catering to male characters? I mean, gods, it's like you're at work and you get a pile of things assigned to do, and you're like "well these are easier, so I'm gonna do these and not really bother with the rest" - how is that rational??? :confused: It just ticks me off.Quote:
Originally Posted by raymon
On that note - one way they could take a slight bit of the edge of "cash-shop-exclusive-items" and give the tiniest bit of depth to the NPCs would be if the next time you meet an NPC whose outfit you're wearing (or maybe those closest to them), they would comment on it. Anything. How weird it is, how funny it is, how embarrassing it is - whatever, just have any sort of a reaction to it. Nothing big, a look and half a sentence would be more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
As for dyeability: yeah, it's not enough that we're gonna be seeing even more people who are even more clones of each other (sorry, but with how little options we have in certain areas / how very few of the numbers we have available is actually favoured by players, there's already way too much similarity between characters), clones of NPCs this time around, you'd think it rational to at least throw the option of colours into the mix, to ease up on all the similarities. Apparently, for some reason, it's another no.Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
The glamour restrictions: been saying this since day 1, the whole set of restrictions is so half-assed and not thought out at all that it should never have been there. The reasoning behind it I can understand, even if it's quite meta and doesn't really have much to do with any in-game practice or lore; however when the execution is a clear one-way street, it's simply bad and it should not have been forced. But of course that's tied to how gear itself is categorised: accessories are pretty much always "all classes", much of the mage gear is also "all classes", whereas warrior gear is almost always restricted to certain class group from lv1 onward, and of course there's no point in placing equip restriction on glamour items... And all in all, when it's just magicking the appearance of a certain item to another one - what does actually wearing that item have to do with anything, anyway??
This year's Halloween outfit though... yeah, let's not even talk about that. -_-
Hang in there until it actually goes live. It might as well turn out to be a headgear piece (an actual wig if you like), instead of a proper hairstyle. With the mod response being so specific about it, I wouldn't be surprised - I mean mentioning that the colour of a hairstyle can be changed, in itself, is quite redundant, since...well...we all have all the colours of the rainbow available to all the hairstyle we have, by default.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
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10-31-2015, 03:54 PMColorfulWhy would they do that? There's already a system used for purchasing hairstyles in the GS, I am 99% sure it will be exactly like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathlessTao
SE is just pushing the boundaries of the playerbase inch by inch, I'm willing to bet in a few years time our cash shop will be far worse than FFXIV's that this community always like to hate on. Players will buy into this of course, and the higher ups at SE will see profits skyrocket and force the development team into pulling more shit like this without investing a single cent back into more developers or better servers. -
10-31-2015, 03:57 PMBreathlessTaoWhy are the doing this whole disparity between male and female clothing? /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
Why are they resisting rational ideas about glamours, inventory management, UI improvements, etc? /shrug
I stopped really looking for reasons a while ago, I'm just too baffled by it all tbh. -
10-31-2015, 04:01 PMColorfulIt's clear why they're doing those things and that's because it takes effort, but they literally already have this system in place and it would take more effort to hide the hair while the "wig" is on.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathlessTao
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10-31-2015, 04:09 PMMorningstar1337I have a theory as to why the comment about the hair being dyable was mentioned in the first place (Charatcer custimisation hair options are alray able to have their color changed ad no dye would be necessary for that). And once that isn't unprecedented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemma
It's not technically a character customization option, but a Wig. The precedent comes form the Bohemean headpiece, which game Snow's hairstyle to those that wore it (and since the Guardian Corps set has no head piece, the beaning+wig is the male counterpart to Lightning's hairstyle) and only until it;s work. The difference is that Minfillia's is not a beanie with the wig, but just a wig.
I'm not sure if that makes it (both the gender disparity and the fact that hairstyles are on the cash shop in any form, though the latter at least means that SE isn't going to such hyperbolic extremes as putting the Butt slider on the cash shop...yet) better or worse but I just felt like pointing that out. -
10-31-2015, 04:11 PMBreathlessTaoNo, it really wouldn't. All the hats and caps and even cowls do that already, a wig wouldn't work any differently in this case. And mind you, we already have a "moustache" that's not a character customisation option but an equippable "headpiece". So it's not really as insane to expect a wig, in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
As for the effort thing - just stop with that already. And I mean everyone, everywhere, in general. I understand that doing any work on the game takes effort (and time and money, yes) - but that is their job. That is what they get paid for - from our pockets. And I don't mean to even imply that they don't work hard enough or any such; but really, that "takes effort" thing as a reasoning/excuse is really getting offensive tbh. Towards us. See the points I've already made above. -
10-31-2015, 04:13 PMThirdChild_ZKI/disappointedQuote:
Originally Posted by Grekumah
But oh well. Can you perhaps send word to the team that designs gear to consider open front/open side long skirts? Those would not only look great with armor (a la Dark Knights and/or Foestriker's Tabards), but it's a nice style overall :D -
10-31-2015, 04:49 PMFallenArisen0990
Oh idk, SE has been keeping their word about glamours items in cash shop. No RPG that I know of, ever allowed you to wear NPC unique hair and/or clothing without a price. As for male glamours, I got nothing because females will always outnumber males in terms of stuff. This is just an unwritten law with JP games. Do I think males should get "Male only" stuff? Hell yeah. Make me jealous that they got something I would have loved to wear instead of making everything unisex. Even tho I don't play a male character, it annoys me when they go out their way to make something that should be male only, unisex. Almost half the gear looks pretty silly on females when they try to add a little "bump" around the chest area of the body piece.
So I'm still waiting for SE to make me jealous with male only gear. If they ever do, they better not chicken out and make it unisex or I would rage.. -
10-31-2015, 05:27 PMBelhiPerhaps a better way of suggesting it is what are you willing to give up to get the things you want? If they have a set amount of work they are capable of doing then something has to be given up for new things to be developed. Game development generally seems to be 'try and squeeze in as much as we can within the deadline we have'. This is the very reason they had to give us only 2 dungeons instead of three so they could work on the Sky Island Exploration. And to be fair to other players, make it something you actually value in game since dumping something you don't care about is just being unfair to other players.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathlessTao
Effort can sometimes mean the actual benefits are outweighed by the amount of time and resources implementing it would take or in other cases its something that takes a lot of time to work on without a certainty it will actually work. Most developers have learned to be very careful what they talk about, particularly in detail, as players have a tendency to take everything as promises.
As for difficulty, some times it is simply technical. Many of the inventory issues are tied to there server structure and its backup system. Sometimes it has to do with managing game balance. I suspect one of the reasons often dungeon gear is undyeable is so they can add it as dyeable crafted sets later on. This makes sense because they want the items to be worth creating and they don't have the resources to create entirely unique sets for crafting every time.
I've also said this before but unless we assume that Yoshi P is always lying to us, which is pretty damn paranoid, much of the Cash Shop revenue goes back into the game. Didn't they say that the Cash Shop was originally implemented as a way for them to finance the EU datacentres? That's not to say that what goes into the Cash Shop shouldn't be scrutinised but its not like they are only adding things to the Cash shop. The Cash shop is getting 1 new wig and outfit that we know of, while the patch is adding 4 new hairstyles for each gender and a plethora of new gear sets. Shrinking the games income stream isn't going to get us the extra things we want. For our sub we get good value, certainly compared to what the norm is in the MMO industry today. Further, its distinctly possible that the resources used to create the stuff that goes into the Cash Shop never would have existed without it meaning they may never have been available in the first place anyway.
Finally, on the topic of the OP, I think it's safe to say it a general consensus among players that the disparity among male and female gear is an issue. We know they have at least noticed and its important to continue to make our voice known but lets try to keep a non hostile tone and the conspiracy theories to a minimum. This stuff doesn't get changed overnight. It will likely take months and potentially several patches to right.
Most game developers do game development because it is a passion when they could make a lot more money in other private sector areas. They work their asses off. Lets try and remember that and try to be a bit respectful about it. Too often discussions like this devolve into Angry Mob bitterness which doesn't help anyone. -
10-31-2015, 05:38 PMColorfulAre you really going to claim that it's offensive? Here I was thinking someone taking offense to calling them a "nugget" was bad enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathlessTao
Yes, it does take effort, but that's as you pointed out, effort directly translates into time, time they don't think investing into large amounts of time into such things would be worth the effort. Is that hard to believe? No, we've seen it happen time and time again when things get pushed back further and further to avoid patches being delayed, because they know the shitstorm that happens when things are delayed and they know their player base won't sit idly by, you might, but the majority won't and there's no arguing that. As for the glamour log, no, that's not about effort, it's about SE's president being an awful person to the development time. -
10-31-2015, 05:56 PMBelhiI suspect that part of the issue here is wether SE is providing sufficient resources to the dev team to meet the goals expected of them. Lacking any inside knowledge we cant fairly accuse the SE executive but I find that there was a two year gap between launch and their first vacation as a red flag. It worries me. Sure the game had to come back and pay off its expenses after the disastrous launch but that still sounds like a recipe for burning out employees, particularly when you take into consideration the overtime devs usually work during crunch times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorful
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10-31-2015, 06:21 PMPomelo
I suppose this means that Minfilla is getting a new outfit herself too :3
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10-31-2015, 06:26 PMBreathlessTao
Ok, the general "what's happening behind the scenes" and "how everything works up there" are definitely outside of the frames of this thread. So is the question "what would you be willing to give up?". (Personally, I sure as hell wouldn't be working furnishings when we already have an abundance of them, especially in comparison to the overall availability of housing, but like I said, that's just me.) But I will say this, and I've also said this in another thread: I know there are always other "more pressing" issues on those priority lists, but there are core elements of the game that are suffering and have been "pushed back" on those same list time and time again by now. If nothing else, at least that should warrant more attention to them. What's even more annoying are the numerous really minor things - can they really not be fixed over a span of months? A year? They could take the time to fix and tweak all those and do nothing else and release it as a content patch - it would be worth the .1 version number increase, that's how many/significant they are.
But this issue itself? "This stuff doesn't get changed overnight"? (Neither does anything else, I think everyone's aware of that and nobody's demanding "changes right now or else".) Here's the point - this very issue has been noted in April, that is if we agree on the fact that an actual official person's reply made in another thread means it does get forwarded to the relevant developers/designers/whatnots (the reply in question has also been quoted in this thread, at least once). Since then - I know, we've had Heavensward. But it's been another 4 months now, since HW, we're preparing for another content update - another addition to the cash shop, and the issue is not only not being addressed, but keeps growing. And someone did ask, in the other recent relevant thread, "why do these threads keep popping up" - or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact words. And I replied there as well: because it keeps being an issue. And it had been an issue quite a while before that, I think for more than a year now, refer those raw numbers Serilda posted... So, yeah, sorry if some of us are getting disgruntled.
I'm not accusing anyone and I don't want to get into conspiracy theories (at least I try not to) - which is why I keep saying "from what we can see" and "from what we're experiencing". Those are not empty phrases, those are pretty much the only things we can base anything off. -
10-31-2015, 07:14 PMBelhi
I respect your passion for the game Tao. Its good for the health of the game for players to be proactive in feedback.
I will make a couple of points.
Firstly, its very hard to judge how minor things really are. What might seem minor to us might have a lot of repercussions to deal with when seen from their end. Ignoring conspiracy theories about them trying to squeeze extra money out of us, Id say in general, if there is something minor they haven't done, there is probably a good reason why. Its not like they don't want a happy fan base and if small things offer a lot of happiness they would be mad not to at least get some of them done.
Secondly, if we look at this patch there is really 1 new 'cosplay' outfit which is gender specific only to one gender that we have seen. The bunny outfit is a minor recolor of an existing outfit, with a bent ear. People point out the All Saint's wake outfits and seem to not notice they are literally reskins of existing armor pieces. All the bits your see for both sets are existing pieces with a few extra bobs and bits.
Now one can argue reasonably fairly that releasing the Minfilia set without something similar for males if unfair and that argument has some traction. I would point out that save for Cid, most male NPCs and the Scions specifically don't have many unique sets. Raubahn, Amyeric and Cid are the obvious ones. They also might be waiting for updating outfits for NPCs before allowing us to access their old ones. I'm almost certain at this point all the Scions are going to have a new look when we see them. However its a fair point. If the next 'cosplay' set released isn't Male or doesn't balance out what females are getting then I agree that its a bad sign. I also never said that pressure should continue to be applied. But we shouldn't leap to conclusions that there has been no change at all yet. We haven't even seen the full release yet.
I tend to play devil's advocate in these types of threads simply because I think its important for people to consider the other side of the situation when setting their expectations. Mistaken assumptions are probably the number one cause of forum rage in games. -
10-31-2015, 08:16 PMReinhaI can't for the life of me think on a good reason why they made a "minor recolor with a bent ear" for females but nothing similar for males. Where is the recolor of Riviera Doublet and Slops? We are talking about using the exact same model and clicking the paint button, for crying out loud. Resources are not an excuse, yet somehow they only bothered to recolor an outfit for female characters. Releasing scion gear one by one I can understand, but not the way the handled the "minor recolor". No one is leaping to conclusions here. No matter how you look at it, female glamour got more attention from the devs again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
If they somehow make the bunny gear unisex, I will take back everything I said above. But I don't see it ever happening. -
10-31-2015, 08:24 PMPomelo
^ They did say somewhere that the bent bunny ears were going to be for males, the bunny stuff is already dye-able so I think they were just showcasing those ears, and not a new bunny outfit...but if this is the case
WHY showcase it on a female model and not a male one? -
10-31-2015, 08:27 PMEulReally? I do hope the bunny ears gonna belong for all gender. *hype intensifies* Maybe we will see it until it's gonna live in patch noteQuote:
Originally Posted by Pomelo
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10-31-2015, 09:00 PMSerilda
Sadly that's unconfirmed. This exchange with the community team (who I believe are genuinely doing their best and being held back by a bias in the design team they can't control) stated that the ears (and specifically the ears) were planned to be unisex but they're not sure whether they actually will be. Furthermore the new bunny costume is a whole new outfit; there were already two different sets of ears/bustiers on the NPCs and it's been noted that the dye patterns seem different on other parts.
Even if the new outfit is unisex - and I hope it is, in spite of the indication that it might not be - they still have work to do to address the size of the gap they've created between the genders. The community team is listening to us so now we have to keep talking about it and spreading awareness until the actual development team follows suit. -
10-31-2015, 09:25 PMPomelo
The bustiers look the same to me, or I'm just having a really blind moment :s
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10-31-2015, 09:44 PMSerildaRegrettably I can't show the current one on my own character but I believe we currently have the more conservative version (look at the shoulders and lack of gap under the bow). Whereas the one shown in the preview is this 'sexier' version. Given the theme, I find it difficult to believe that the number of locked items isn't going to increase again in favour of the ladies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pomelo
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10-31-2015, 09:52 PMFallenArisen0990I wanted the sexier version from the start and was disappointed that it wasn't available. Now, I is happy. I just wish SE would release a High Heel version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
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10-31-2015, 10:03 PMPomelo
^ Oh god.
Thanks for the comparisons Serilda. -
10-31-2015, 11:59 PMBelhi
I stand corrected on the Bunny outfit.
/sigh
Did we really need another bunny outfit for females? Oh well. -
11-01-2015, 01:19 AMKemonologist
Please, Don't be Thancred, Louisoix, Urianger, or Papalymo for male. They have similar look with low level gear already. Moreover, Alphinaud outfit can easily adapt for unisex too. I think dev no avoid the chance for raising more money surely.
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11-01-2015, 01:34 AMFallenArisen0990For the twins, Males get blue ribbons and Females get red ribbons hopefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemonologist
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11-01-2015, 01:59 AMIromiOh wow I never noticed this..glad I waited to buy my bunny outfit! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Serilda
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11-01-2015, 02:03 AMOrchidias
I just don't see why they can't be unisex in their entirety. Female characters get a whole lot more glamors than the males, so honestly it's just unfair at this point. Sure, you can give me all the reasons and of course they're acceptable reasons- I just feel it's unfair. I'd have loved to see some kind of male equivalent for the Minfilia outfit, or a lot of the female-only outfits. I'd much rather have all of them unisex than gender-locked.
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11-01-2015, 02:21 AMTheodricEven if they do make them unisex it doesn't really solve the core issue. Many people who play male characters want to have access to more gear suited to male characters first and foremost. Which essentially means that they should be fairly masculine. Whenever we get a thread asking for more male attire it is almost always hijacked by the vocal portion of the community that wants to dress up their men in dresses...which isn't really what a lot of people making these threads want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidias
It's not a bad thing for female characters to have gender locked equipment. It's only a bad thing when there's not an equal amount of gender locked equipment for male characters. Making male stuff gender neutral just lessens the quality of the design since it isn't specialised and ends up being androgynous. It's not as if there's a shortage of that sort of gear anyway... -
11-01-2015, 06:03 AMVintaAbsolutely not. We are not asking for more "masculine-looking" gear, we are asking for more "male-exclusive" gear. The two are not explicitly tied to each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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11-01-2015, 07:58 AMAlphaDragoon
If they do an Alphinaud outfit, please let it be his ballin' Heavensward outfit.
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11-01-2015, 08:11 AMErcapoteYes and no, yeah we want more male exclusive gear, no we do not want to dress like draqueens/metrosexual we already have enough gear like that, we want glamour's exclusive for male but of good taste not some alphinau 2.0 time of thing showing half of your waist for no good reason, some European style type of clothes would be really nice or hell make something ff-Ish of a good casual style that fits men like some sport fit shirts or something, or even something like the new FF15 type of style that I know own it goes more into that (metrosexual) type of style but still I would gear some open up shirt showing some abs to give a "fresh" styleQuote:
Originally Posted by Vinta
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11-01-2015, 08:20 AMSerilda
I think we need to stop speaking for one another and weakening our position by sending out mixed messages :)
Some of us want access to the more 'feminine' outfits, others want more macho-looking outfits; but either way what both camps want is fair treatment and more choices. Once we get the good news from Square-Enix that they're going to start treating us like equally important customers, we can push for specific looks that we want for future sets (the Ishgard theme has inspired a few traditional European-style garments already, and I agree that more of those would be nice once the favouritism stops hampering our access to glamour outfits). -
11-01-2015, 08:21 AMAdire
If it makes the guys feel any better, I'd gladly trade in the reskinned bunny outfit and the minfilia outfit if it meant you could finally have 2 unique outfits in their places.
Not thrilled about either of them. We already have a bunny outfit that looks identical to it minus a little bit of color and bent ears (the stockings should dye on the original bunny outfit in the first place), and the Minfilia one should stay exclusive to Minfilia and not be just cheapened and tossed into the cash shop because MONEY -
11-01-2015, 08:44 AMBelhi
I think you have two different arguments here and we should probably define them:
1. Male characters don't have as many glamour sets as the Females.
and
2. The style of the sets available or potentially available doesn't suit enough of a wide variety of tastes.
The first issue is pretty cut and dry. Its a fact and one CMs have pretty much admitted exists.
The second one is more a taste thing. People will argue plenty over this. Some people want more 'macho' gear while others want more 'feminine' gear. Both opinions are valid but its an issue which isn't directly tied to the first issue. Its a taste, rather than fairness issue.
Further, I'd argue that the second issue is a cross gender issue. People talk about female sets being 'feminine' but I feel that's a pretty narrow definition of feminine. Female only glamor tend to be bikinis, things like bunny suits or outfits that look like what you would dress porcelain dolls up in. Again this is an opinion and I know these sets are quite popular with people but there is a distinct lack of variety.
When discussing these topics its probably best we don't get them tangled up.
I suspect Minfilia, along with the other scions, will be getting new looks when they come back. I suspect what we will be getting access too is their old looks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adire
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11-01-2015, 12:10 PMCosmicKirbyGasp, someone entirely aware that they're sharing their own opinion and feelings on the forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchidias
Without trying to make any drastic or sweeping statements built upon said opinion and feelings?
I commend you good sir. -
11-01-2015, 12:18 PMLyner1
This guy would rock Minifilia's outfit and the Thavnairian Bustier come on!!
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11-01-2015, 03:54 PMEloahI find it funny that a community rep responded to someone's inquiry regarding dyeability of the Minfilia outfit, but nothing in regards to the actual reasoning for this thread. The whole point of this thread isnt about Scion outfits for males, though yes we would like those, it's about giving male characters more gender specific glamours!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grekumah
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11-01-2015, 04:05 PMBelhiWell there is a limit that Community reps can say until there is an official response. Would you prefer they said nothing at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah