Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Has anyone ever tested the dps difference between the i190 gordian chest and the i200 eso chest poece?

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Given the decrease in value for secondaries, even if the i190 body is better, it would probably take hundreds of parses to really confirm it.

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Originally Posted by ShanaShirayuki

Kind of difficult to test the exact difference when there are no NIN stat weights atm, though I've read that Dervy is currently working on it. For now we have to use what's posted for other jobs, such as DRG or MNK. Using those weights there is roughly a 3 DPS increase from the 190 to the 200 piece. Not to mention that secondaries took a nosedive in value with 3.0, with WD and Main Stat being more pronounced in importance.

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I meant testing more in the sense of parsing, because yeah, obviously we don't have weights yet. What I did was taking the det/crit weights from mnk, since they've been the closest to nin pre 3.0, and assumed that skillspeed didn't change all too much, which would mean somewhere in the 0.09 to 0.11 range depending on mudra lag. The weight difference would be only between 2 and 3 calculated dex.

I'll probably just get both and test it myself, even if it takes a considerable number of parses like Alahra said. ^^

It realy does not mater, much anyhow. Both have the acc you need mostly XD. The eso chest is still beter tho. Dont undervalue sks over det atm, its preaty tied...just depends on how much sks you have on other gear. Most of my gear is acc and crit atm so balances out.

Howdy all. I've been staying pretty silent on the updates lately mainly because they're QoL related, but this one is of great importance below:

I went ahead and did an update on BiS Loadouts which have >= 640 accuracy. I'm aware that Ninja does not have any stat weights posted yet so I used the MNK stat weights due to Greased Lightning and Huton's likeness. That will cover the acc caps for content up to A3S without any misses. Definitely expecting CRT to be the new king of the secondaries across all melee dps at this rate.

They will again be updated when either 3.1 comes out or when the published NIN stat weights come out; whichever is first really.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Suiton while tank is pulling, 1 (B4B), 2 (IR), Dancing Edge (Pot), 1 (TA+Kassatsu), Shadow Fang (Fuma Shuriken), Mutilation (DwaD), 1 (Mug), 2 (Duality), Aeolian Edge (Jugulate)

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I've been trying this the past couple weeks. My problem is the TA+Kassatsu, it delays the GCD slightly for me and I end up missing out on Duality + AE as the TA debuff expires just as that GCD is coming up. Do you not experience that? My latency is pretty good so I would be surprised if I am the only one.

Other question is...have you had experiences where the TA effect doesn't apply in time for SF if you don't double ogcd there?

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

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You could try doubling up on the damage buffs and doing Kassatsu a couple steps earlier. I am still leveling, but have been doing Suiton on pull -> SE (BFB+IR) -> GS (Kassatsu) -> DE (pot) -> SE (TA) -> SF (raiton) -> Mut (Mug+Jug) -> AE combo

Once I hit 60 I'll do SE (DWAD) -> GS (Duality) -> AE after Mut.

BFB doesn't always activate, but it usually works and I have seen a big improvement in my numbers. It is /really/ tight though, like AE will go out as the vuln debuff counts down from 1 to 0 (but the icon still hangs). I am not sure if I will have issues at 60 with the additional ogcds, or if more sks from gear will help at all.

I have not experienced what you are talking about with TA, but that sort of thing happens with SCH dots and bane pretty often. Seems like it takes an extra fraction of a second for dots/debuffs to register.

This is the exact reason why TA+Kassatsu is recommended, because if you do TA SF, more often than not the SF will not benefit from TA. Are you sure your duality AE doesn't fit? Like, did you check the damage it does? Because just like how a positional registers the second you press it, even if the animation ends when you already moved, it's pretty much enough to just fire off AE while the debuff icon is sttill on the mob. You don't need the animation to finish before TA falls off.

You sure that BiS on the OP is actually BiS? cause this set actually gives more like 2 or so more DEX : http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RJPF , and it also meets the accuracy cap.

Since Dervy can't share this personally i'll post for him
Nin stat weights
Ninja:

WD: 10.775
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.141
CRT: 0.166
SS: 0.074 (Mudra clipping is horrible)

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Since Dervy can't share this personally i'll post for him
Nin stat weights
Ninja:

WD: 10.775
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.141
CRT: 0.166
SS: 0.074 (Mudra clipping is horrible)

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Thanks a lot Pluvia. I did expect Skillspeed to be lower than Mnk, but I didn't expect it that low. ^^

So, looks like this is our actual BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RKNB

Which is basically the one already covered in the OP. :)

I still don't know where he gets his insano values for crit ._.;;

Not that it makes a difference in BiS at all. You could lower that crit value from the stratosphere and you'd still find that SS is just that suboptimal for today's NIN before even wondering about TP.

Crit not only afects your crit chance, but crit dmg, the more you have, the beter. After you hit the 750-800 mark its like a high watching all these big numbers pop out @@; as for ss, any mudra lag destroys the value of it completely.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

Thanks a lot Pluvia. I did expect Skillspeed to be lower than Mnk, but I didn't expect it that low. ^^

So, looks like this is our actual BiS: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/RKNB

Which is basically the one already covered in the OP. :)

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Np getting sick of dealing with all the stupid threads that keep popping up in the forums about ninja so haven't been around much here lol

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Originally Posted by Pluvia

Np getting sick of dealing with all the stupid threads that keep popping up in the forums about ninja so haven't been around much here lol

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Thank you for making the reply in the thread, Pluvia. Everything should now be up to date.

Speaking of, just a reminder @all to not talk about The-Program(s)-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named on the official forums. The moderation team does perma ban you over it.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuya

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The optimal opener depends quite a bit on the amount of mudra lag you have. Here's the one I use:


Huton pre pull - wait 20s

Suiton while tank is pulling, SE (B4B), GS (IR), DE (Pot), SE (TA+Kassatsu), SF (Fuma Shuriken), Mutilation (DwaD), SE (Mug), GS (Duality), AE (Jugulate)

I have quite a bit of mudra lag, which is why I opt for Shuriken over Raiton in order to fit Duality AE into the TA window. It's also the reason I don't double weave Mug+Jug. If you have good latency, you can go for Raiton and double weave Mug+Jug for a bit more potency.

After that it's really just reapplying everything and doing an occasional AE combo if everything else is running. Ogcd's are pretty much kept on cooldown, as well as Shuriken/Raiton (depending on lag) and TA once a minute. Duality might be the only exception here, because you generally don't want to use it on DE but instead for your next AC or AE. Don't try to save it for AE at all cost, if it's too many gcd's away, just use it for AC to get it on cooldown again sooner.

Anyone here has tips on ninja dpsing in a3s? I'm currently stuck with my static doing p3 in a3s as the adds are just so many and 1 or 2 just get out before we notice or kill it. I feel like i'm pulling low dps as well so far in a3s because my fflogs dps for the overall p1-3 is like 899.0 on our last run (although my living liquid DPS(a) is 1109.9 whatever that is and dps on gear lubricant is 773.6, dps on piston being 1021.3 (DPS(a)).

My rotation goes like AE>SF>MU>AE/AC...I don't do DE anymore because i trust my static's warrior to keep storm's eye up so I just AE all the way. I also use Fuma Shuriken only due to mudra lag with raiton and its unreliability as it is 2 mudra clicks instead of 1. I land duality whenever it is up with AC or AE whichever I currently need to use as well. I do DE for p2 though during the hand cleaves and stuff because I'm standing in front of the hand.

Thanks!

Might be a minor thing but you should Raiton with foe up from bard. Sounds like the rest of it is right though, just make sure your opener is fitting in all the major abilities within TA window and you should be good.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Might be a minor thing but you should Raiton with foe up from bard. Sounds like the rest of it is right though, just make sure your opener is fitting in all the major abilities within TA window and you should be good.

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Ahh alright thanks! My static's doing a MCH though so no foe requiem there ):

General Tips
P1-P2: Save Mudra if it comes back up while he's splashingx3 before the transition. Cast Suiton as he finishes transforming and TA right before or after cleave (will be up before hand of pain check).
Only stand in front for the cleave, hit rears/flanks otherwise.

P3:
You can hit the tornado to queue up your 2nd combo and run out of the puddle without getting damaged. Pop all CDs once early here including Sneak/Trick Attack for the Piston in the 3rd wave: save Jugulate for Piston stun, especially last wave.
You can also Katon the tornado right as a wave spawns and hit everything except the tornado itself for some damage.

For reference, I end at around 1200 dps as P3 starts at iLevel 200

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Originally Posted by Acayex

General Tips
P1-P2: Save Mudra if it comes back up while he's splashingx3 before the transition. Cast Suiton as he finishes transforming and TA right before or after cleave (will be up before hand of pain check).
Only stand in front for the cleave, hit rears/flanks otherwise.

P3:
You can hit the tornado to queue up your 2nd combo and run out of the puddle without getting damaged. Pop all CDs once early here including Sneak/Trick Attack for the Piston in the 3rd wave: save Jugulate for Piston stun, especially last wave.
You can also Katon the tornado right as a wave spawns and hit everything except the tornado itself for some damage.

For reference, I end at around 1200 dps as P3 starts at iLevel 200

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Ah thanks for those tips! I've never thought of most of them haha I'll definitely try out suiton right after the transition and also doing the katon thing for p3

If i pop my cds in p3 will i be able to have them for the actual dps check in p4?

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Originally Posted by Risaka

Ah thanks for those tips! I've never thought of most of them haha I'll definitely try out suiton right after the transition and also doing the katon thing for p3

If i pop my cds in p3 will i be able to have them for the actual dps check in p4?

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Yeah, P3 is about ~92 seconds or so. Popping everything besides X-Pot and Kassatsu (should be on CD from hand of pain) at the beginning will have it up as P4 starts.

Another tip is to make use of Shikuchi to cancel out one of the knockbacks during P2. It might take some trial and error but once you get it, it'll help increase your dps uptime.

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Originally Posted by Acayex

Yeah, P3 is about ~92 seconds or so. Popping everything besides X-Pot and Kassatsu (should be on CD from hand of pain) at the beginning will have it up as P4 starts.

Another tip is to make use of Shikuchi to cancel out one of the knockbacks during P2. It might take some trial and error but once you get it, it'll help increase your dps uptime.

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Ah yes I do use Shukichi for the first wash away so I can still DPS while digititus is being handled

1200 dps as p3 starts though, dang that is a lot :o sucks that my dps goes down during p3 haha

They're going to be adjusting mudras come 3.1

Wohoo~♪

Mudra fixing for smoother use!!
Aka not as much clipping?!
Then easer use of GCD with them?!
So more TP Consumption!! YAY FOR A DPS LOSS!!
(Im just exagerating btw, of course Im happy about the Mudra fixing comment)

They did also announced other stuff? I'm trying to find a note so I can read up on all the stuff and changes

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

They did also announced other stuff? I'm trying to find a note so I can read up on all the stuff and changes

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Mostly they started off talking about Mudras and saying that in 3.1 there will be adjustments and after that they went into the 3.1 stuff. I'm sure at the Fate on the 25th we'll have more info about any other class balance changes if there will be any since they only had 1 hour becasue of TGS

Here is the document that people are passing around from Mrhappy
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...xtiXl8/preview

Awesome thank you. I heared something about hunts now dropping gear like ilvl 200 as well? I don't rmember

gear up to i210. Aetherial type (pink gear), so main stats will be static, but the secondaries will be randomized, so time for some serious gear fishing~♪

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Originally Posted by Butcherboy

Awesome thank you. I heared something about hunts now dropping gear like ilvl 200 as well? I don't rmember

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Not the hunts we have now, the new FC airship alliance type thingy that can be done without FC and without an actual airship. ^^

Ahh. Yeah I read about it found a link.

seems like the general opener for suiton precast is split into 2 atm

low skill speed - bfb up for 2nd trick attack
huton 20s>suiton>SE (IR, BFB)>GS (Dex Potion)>AE/DE (Kassatsu)>SE (Trick Attack)>SF(Raiton)>Mutilate(DWaD)>SE(Mug)>GS(Duality)>AE(Jugulate)

high skill speed - bfb not up for 2nd trick attack, but up for 2nd DWaD and Duality
huton 20s>suiton>SE (Kassatsu, IR)>GS (Dex Potion)>AE/DE (BFB)>SE (Trick Attack)>SF(Raiton)>Mutilate(DWaD)>SE(Mug)>GS(Duality)>AE(Jugulate)

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVA8CzA-WIc

pretty sure these two by far outclass doing suiton in the opener (the only benefit to that is getting your suiton buffed by IR+BFB+pot, but that's not worth clipping your GCD at all)

now, someone go re-explore the dot opener (that i never bothered with). here's something i scribbled up from pushing buttons for 5 minutes

suiton>se kassatsu bfb>sf>dex pot>mutilate trick attack>se raiton>gs duality>ae dwad>se mug>sf jugulate

Do you get the TA debuff guaranteed for SF on these two openers? I still double weave TA+Kass after SE for that reason.

if you do TA normally you'll always get it buffed, yeah

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

seems like the general opener for suiton precast is split into 2 atm

low skill speed - bfb up for 2nd trick attack
huton 20s>suiton>SE (IR, BFB)>GS (Dex Potion)>AE/DE (Kassatsu)>SE (Trick Attack)>SF(Raiton)>Mutilate(DWaD)>SE(Mug)>GS(Duality)>AE(Jugulate)

high skill speed - bfb not up for 2nd trick attack, but up for 2nd DWaD and Duality
huton 20s>suiton>SE (Kassatsu, IR)>GS (Dex Potion)>AE/DE (BFB)>SE (Trick Attack)>SF(Raiton)>Mutilate(DWaD)>SE(Mug)>GS(Duality)>AE(Jugulate)

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVA8CzA-WIc

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Interesting. I've been doing pre-pull Suiton for a while now, I normally go pre-pull Suiton, SE (BFB + IR), GS (Pot), DE, SE (TA + Kassatsu), SF (Fuma or Raiton), SE (DwD + Mug), GS (Duality), AE (Jugulate), Mutilate. I was doing this based on A: Being advised it's best to use TA and Kassatsu together to ensure TA is applied for SF as folks on here have stated, and B: earlier posts in here theorizing that a Duality AE is higher priority than Mutilate in the TA window.

I'm going to try these to see if the output is better. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Interesting. I've been doing pre-pull Suiton for a while now, I normally go pre-pull Suiton, SE (BFB + IR), GS (Pot), DE, SE (TA + Kassatsu), SF (Fuma or Raiton), SE (DwD + Mug), GS (Duality), AE (Jugulate), Mutilate. I was doing this based on A: Being advised it's best to use TA and Kassatsu together to ensure TA is applied for SF as folks on here have stated, and B: earlier posts in here theorizing that a Duality AE is higher priority than Mutilate in the TA window.

I'm going to try these to see if the output is better. Thanks.

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TA would only not apply to SF if it was used too late before SF (hence people not doing Kassatsu + TA). With Suiton Pre-cast, you can move Kassatsu to after DE and use TA right after SE to have the same TA timing since TA + Kassatsu shouldn't bleed into your GCD unless bad lag.

Hrm...
How nice must it be to have such a ping :/

Well, as someone in the 109+ ping world my opener differs a bit, tho I can't remember when the buffs will be up again...
It works under the condition that it must end in 20 seconds, and work in most if not any situation:

You cast Huton:
Tank pulls in the Huton window 20~50 seconds:
Suiton > Kassatsu > Spinning Edge(B4B) > Gust Slash(IR) > Dancing Edge(Pot) > Spinning Edge(TA) > Shadow Fang(Shuriken) > Mutilate(DwaD) > Spinning Edge(Mug) > Gust Slash(Dual) > Aeolian Edge/Armor Crush(Jugulate)

Tank pulls before 20s of Huton wait time (so typical~♪):
Kassatsu > Suiton > Spinning Edge(B4B) > Gust Slash(IR) > Dancing Edge(Pot) > Spinning Edge(TA) > Shadow Fang(DwaD) > Mutilate(Mug) > Spinning Edge(Jugulate) > Gust Slash(Dual) > Aeolian Edge

If the Tank did the pull after 51 seconds of Huton, better reapply Huton and go for the 2nd option.

i take it back about the low sksp bfb first opener - your 2nd one wont have a mutilate in its duration if you use it 1 GCD before your 2nd trick attack (so, AE/DE/AC>BFB>SE>trick>SF, bfb not up for mutilate)

so the 2nd opener ("high" sksp) one is probably the best. adjust jugulate timing if you want (jugu+mug) and if it doesnt clip your GCD

Hello :) I'm a european player and I was wondering if the change of server will change our "rotation" (if we could call it that :p ). I hope that we won't have mudra lags anymore ! I can't wait :)

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Originally Posted by Yunnae

Hello :) I'm a european player and I was wondering if the change of server will change our "rotation" (if we could call it that :p ). I hope that we won't have mudra lags anymore ! I can't wait :)

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Nothing huge will change. I will try if double weaving ogcd's during my opener will be an option for me after the mudra fix/european data center is here, but that's it. The regular priority rotation is the same with and without lag anyway.

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Originally Posted by Yunnae

Hello :) I'm a european player and I was wondering if the change of server will change our "rotation" (if we could call it that :p ). I hope that we won't have mudra lags anymore ! I can't wait :)

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The EU servers will be a straightup DPS increase for Ninjas, however nothing on our rotation changes. Ever wondered why so many people say Ninja DPS is fine? Because it is with <50ms.
There might be a slight change depending on how good our latency becomes exactly, we might be able to fit Raiton in.