Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

Any base line parses? No food, no pot, no party.

Any update on the: 990 parse/ 1040 with wildfire on what grp make up was? did you need a dragoon for pierce debuff? The opener used, lining up cooldowns later etc.

almost a shred of hope however sure this was almost perfect rotation just to hit bottom end of dps. Still worried Warriors/Whm can hit these numbers and if they can, why not bring them over us, the utlity of having extra possible tank with cooldowns to rotate through a burst, or another healer to step in is greater then what we bring.

I tried Ravana EX last night and was having trouble finding an opportunity to use my cool downs effectively since he shifts phases a lot. Anyone have advice on how I can approach this with efficient DPS?

The parse from Viola is with Ravana weapon and no dragoon debuff (the only one refear in the PT is a Scholar), i've seen parse for dragoon with i190 weapon at 1300 DPS soo the gap is more or less the same that the one at i180 weapon. Did someone know how do Bard with i190 weapon ? cannot find any parse the only one i've found was with i180 at ~1000 DPS.

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Originally Posted by Blacksyd

cannot find any parse the only one i've found was with i180 at ~1000 DPS.

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Doubt any bard can hit 1k dps with the law weapon.

There problem with MCH basically comes down to RNG and the Gauss Barrel. With Increased Action Damage and our turret, our potencies are on par with other classes damage. The problem is that GB, which is supposed to increase our damage at the cost of mobility is currently flawed. We actually suffer a dps loss because the 20% and Gauss Round don't make up for the loss of auto-attacks. There's also too much downtime between ammo stacks where you're just spamming a low potency ability and praying.

And does anyone know if GB is additive or multiplicative with Increased Action Damage? If it's the latter, it's even worse.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

Doubt any bard can hit 1k dps with the law weapon.

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I've seen a live parse on nico nico with a bard at 976 Dps i've just rounded to superior

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

There problem with MCH basically comes down to RNG and the Gauss Barrel.

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You've resume all the problem

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

We actually suffer a dps loss because the 20% and Gauss Round don't make up for the loss of auto-attacks.
And does anyone know if GB is additive or multiplicative with Increased Action Damage? If it's the latter, it's even worse.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G9m...ature=youtu.be

Guy does 980~990 dps with 100% GB uptime in 3:30-ish mins, which is what most people are parsing for. Havn't seen many people outparse that with GB dancing yet.



GB damage is multiplicative as are most things in this game.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G9m...ature=youtu.be

Guy does 980~990 dps with 100% GB uptime in 3:30-ish mins, which is what most people are parsing for. Havn't seen many people outparse that with GB dancing yet.



GB damage is multiplicative as are most things in this game.

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That means GB only really only gives us an extra 4% increase total. I'll look at the video when I get home.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G9m...ature=youtu.be

Guy does 980~990 dps with 100% GB uptime in 3:30-ish mins, which is what most people are parsing for. Havn't seen many people outparse that with GB dancing yet.



GB damage is multiplicative as are most things in this game.

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That entire parse is lucky crits and procs. I would not use that as a base line.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ps_990dps_330/

Many people talking about it there.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

That entire parse is lucky crits and procs. I would not use that as a base line.

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Wouldn't that apply to most parses posted recently?

The parse I posted from Viola Endstasis has him sitting at ~1010 dps without Wildfire or the 977 dps parse from Zetsu Tai 2 pages back can be cherry picked with a insane proc or crit rate as well, since I doubt people will share parses with poor performance or bad luck.

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

Wouldn't that apply to most parses posted recently?

The parse I posted from Viola Endstasis has him sitting at ~1010 dps without Wildfire or the 977 dps parse from Zetsu Tai 2 pages back can be cherry picked with a insane proc or crit rate as well, since I doubt people will share parses with poor performance or bad luck.

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Which is why I want base line parses. From what I am currently seeing MCH DPS can fluctuate from 880~950 with out party food or pots. I am more interested seeing what the class can do at its worse rather than its best.

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Hey, nice parse! Mind sharing what your opener was, and if that parse was with GB active or only active during burst? Also, was Heartbreak being used?

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GB only active during burst and no heartbreak.

Rotation goes

Raging strikes & Blood for blood
Hotshot
Hawks Eye & Hypercharge
leadshot
Rapidfire & Reload
split shot
Wildfire & Gauss barrel(In that order)
Slug shot
Head graze
Split shot
Reassemble
Clean shot
Ricochet & Gauss Round
Slug shot
Blank
Cleanshot
Gauss off & Quick Reload
Splitshot
Slugshot
Wildfire goes off

I've hit a 2k burst with that rotation but normally goes for 1600-1900


Also 989 in 3.5 mins
http://i.imgur.com/GTwfsw8.png

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

GB only active during burst

Rotation goes

Raging strikes & Blood for blood
Hotshot
Hawks Eye & Hypercharge
leadshot
Rapidfire & Reload
split shot
Gauss barrel & Wildfire
Slugshot
Head graze
Split shot
Reassemble
Clean shot
Ricochet & Gauss Round
Slugshot
Blank
Cleanshot
Gauss off & Quick Reload
Splitshot
Slugshot
Wildfire goes off

http://i.imgur.com/O54Ue2V.pn

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Nice i believe i mentioned GB should be on for Split - Slug - Split - Clean - Slug - Clean earlier and i think OP told me no, nice to see that the number back up my thoughts.

I must be really unlucky then, because in most of my parses while my opening damage is fantastic same as everyone elses, afterwards my damage goes down the drain fast as i pray for procs until our burst comes back up. Confused as to how you guys are keeping your damage up there afterwards.

Are....people really being this ridiculous? As soon as a MCH gets semi-decent parses people say it's unrealistic and start comparing it to the 1300 DRGs (which I haven't seen) that are also unrealistic?

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Are....people really being this ridiculous? As soon as a MCH gets semi-decent parses people say it's unrealistic and start comparing it to the 1300 DRGs (which I haven't seen) that are also unrealistic?

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Can you deny that the parse is cherry picked, full of lucky crits and procs? If so you not watching the same video I'm watching.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Can you deny that the parse is cherry picked, full of lucky crits and procs? If so you not watching the same video I'm watching.

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Can you say that every other parse for every other class you've seen is not? People are only quoting the numbers from other people's parses but aren't actually showing videos or anything. Regardless this person is NOT the only one to get a MCH parse is the upper 900s.

Guys, guys... the issue is the inconsistently in the DPS.

The RNG causes it to flux too severely. Can't you see?

Yes, they're capable... but you need to be absolutely lucky. And when you're not, well the Job gets boring quick (1-1-1-1-1-1-1...) or it makes GB too fickle (which I don't think it should be that fickle) which' poor design.

If they give us more ammo (QR>15/R>45) or up Split Shot proc chance to 75%, that would almost entirely fix the Job.

It'd fix everything except for MP/TP regeneration's being turret-gated & the blandness of the debuff-mechanisms (e.g. Dismantle/Rend Mind.

Adjusting the power-curves for Split-Slug-Clean (and their proc's) slightly would help too but it's less essential if being granted more ammunition.

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Originally Posted by PlumpyMcduff

Guys, guys... the issue is the inconsistently in the DPS--the RNG causes it to flux too severely. Can't you see?

Yes, they're capable... but you need to be absolutely lucky. And when you're not, well the Job gets boring quick (1-1-1-1-1-1-1...) which' poor design.

If they give us more ammo (QR>15/R>45) or up Split Shot proc chance to 75%, that would almost entirely fix the Job.

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^ point I am trying to make. People posting lucky parses showing what the class can do at peak instead of posting what their "normal" DPS is. This gives people inflated idea of what the class can actually do when in reality you have to be quite lucky to pull that off.

Didn't someone post that using the simulator that RNG procs counted as alike a 5% damage flux in numbers or something? which isn't that bad. However in GB the lack of procs will be much bigger hit and not sure if simulator was done with GB on 100% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

^ point I am trying to make. People posting lucky parses showing what the class can do at peak instead of posting what their "normal" DPS is. This gives people inflated idea of what the class can actually do when in reality you have to be quite lucky to pull that off.

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I agree. All those parse videos pulling 900-1k DPS on a dummy does not make sense.

I have a question.

So you the OP starts the opener without Gauss Barrel off, puts up hot shot and Lead shot, then puts on Barrell for Burst with wildfire, then takes it off.

Why not keep it on the entire time until the end of Wildfire. Let me explain.
If you start casting Hot shot with Gauss barrel when the tank is running towards mob, you can land it right away. This is essentially making it Instant Cast. But you get the +20% on initial Damage.

The only difference is Lead shot would be a 1.45 second cast. So is it that big of a deal? I mean +20% initial damage vs. 1.45 second cast? This would also save you one use of Rapid fire not having to put on the barrell.

Am I making sense?

Also, when do you put back on the barrell? Do you just use it when stacking buffs with wiildfire? Or do you jsut keep it off for the rest of the fight?

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Originally Posted by Shortie

I have a question.

So you the OP starts the opener without Gauss Barrel off, puts up hot shot and Lead shot, then puts on Barrell for Burst with wildfire, then takes it off.

Why not keep it on the entire time until the end of Wildfire. Let me explain.
If you start casting Hot shot with Gauss barrel when the tank is running towards mob, you can land it right away. This is essentially making it Instant Cast. But you get the +20% on initial Damage.

The only difference is Lead shot would be a 1.45 second cast. So is it that big of a deal? I mean +20% initial damage vs. 1.45 second cast? This would also save you one use of Rapid fire not having to put on the barrell.

Am I making sense?

Also, when do you put back on the barrell? Do you just use it when stacking buffs with wiildfire? Or do you jsut keep it off for the rest of the fight?

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GB would only be turned back on with Rapid Fire for the Wild Fire burst window.

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Originally Posted by Griffeth

GB would only be turned back on with Rapid Fire for the Wild Fire burst window.

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I agree, I guess thats what I am asking. So you do turn it back on with Rapid Fire for burst window, then back off. Ok.
What about the opener question... :)

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Originally Posted by Ephier

^ point I am trying to make. People posting lucky parses showing what the class can do at peak instead of posting what their "normal" DPS is. This gives people inflated idea of what the class can actually do when in reality you have to be quite lucky to pull that off.

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They're trying to make Machinist look better than it is, flat out.

It needs buffs. Anyone that has played it knows that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk4cLNei0SE

This is one of my parsing attempts. There's more info in the description. It's a little deviated from OP, but it does reflect what I normally do in dungeons.

I've read through the OP and it seems like the usage of Hypercharge wasn't much touched on.

Similar to to BRD's Battle Voice, it is being used in the opening pull, but dealing with Hypercharge after pull is another matter compared to Battle Voice.

Depending on fight, the BRD might choose to BV the next full Foe, or choose to BV a short Ballad/Paeon and switch out the remaining MP to Foe. Some might hold BV for a phase where deaths are more likely to occur and use it as an emergency MP recovery tool should the WHM fall.

There is no problem with holding BV for a calculated use, but Hypercharge is a little different - it affects your turret's auto attacks too.

I think we can have some discussion on this - should it be used on CD, or hold till sync with Wildfire?

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

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The 5% damage increase to contribute to wildfire is incredibly minute imo, esp when defense is being calculated twice against it. It's definitely not worth holding off when the primary boon is the doubled potency from the turret.

If you try to hold it off, its gonna be an entire minute of hyper charge not being used. Of course this also falls into if you even want to use hypercharge for dps or to boost regen. I've personally never had to use the latter unless the fight has gone completely south with healers dying.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

The 5% damage increase to contribute to wildfire is incredibly minute imo, esp when defense is being calculated twice against it. It's definitely not worth holding off when the primary boon is the doubled potency from the turret.

If you try to hold it off, its gonna be an entire minute of hyper charge not being used. Of course this also falls into if you even want to use hypercharge for dps or to boost regen. I've personally never had to use the latter unless the fight has gone completely south with healers dying.

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For me right now I am using it on CD

But yes, I'm contemplating on the 2x recovery speed for TP/MP. Back when I was a BRD there isn't a lot of times where a BV'd Paeon/Ballad is critical other than the time when things go south and your WHM has to die, then yes, double'd MP regen can be critical benefit.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

For me right now I am using it on CD

But yes, I'm contemplating on the 2x recovery speed for TP/MP. Back when I was a BRD there isn't a lot of times where a BV'd Paeon/Ballad is critical other than the time when things go south and your WHM has to die, then yes, double'd MP regen can be critical benefit.

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I've never used BV on habit with the exception of T13, paeon after the first shadow goes down. Beyond that, I've always saved it for incase of emergencies, it's just not good enough to use on foe req considering the 4 minute cooldown.

Hypercharge on the otehr hand, is still considered one of our dps cooldowns. If we try to save it for a clutch moment like battlevoice, it's a fairly decent dps loss over a period of time. If we pop it every two minutes, we won't have it on hand for when we do need it.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

I've never used BV on habit with the exception of T13, paeon after the first shadow goes down. Beyond that, I've always saved it for incase of emergencies, it's just not good enough to use on foe req considering the 4 minute cooldown.

Hypercharge on the otehr hand, is still considered one of our dps cooldowns. If we try to save it for a clutch moment like battlevoice, it's a fairly decent dps loss over a period of time. If we pop it every two minutes, we won't have it on hand for when we do need it.

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Oh hello there little ant *squish*

It should be in the opener most definitely but after that you should start making calls based on the status of the fight. Its not always about vomiting up the largest number possible as soon as its ready. Beating the enrage timers is something, yes but holding back a small percentage of DPS for a better time or to assist in another phase or mechanic is just as crucial but it shouldn't be held indefinitely (Like a new mechanic is coming up within 30 seconds or something like that, not the full length of the CD)

well RiP stance dancing. Doesn't work anymore as of todays hotfix patch.

So is full time Gauss now best practise?

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Originally Posted by SasakiNori

well RiP stance dancing. Doesn't work anymore as of todays hotfix patch.

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Which I'm personally fine with and saw coming. If they wanted stance dancing they wouldn't give that ability a stupid cast time. Still hoping for a buff to the dmg GB gives tho. . .

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Originally Posted by FantasyForever

Which I'm personally fine with and saw coming. If they wanted stance dancing they wouldn't give that ability a stupid cast time. Still hoping for a buff to the dmg GB gives tho. . .

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Yeah it was most likely inevitable, but this is still somewhat of a nerf to a class that's already behind.

Welp, no more rapid fire stance dancing.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

For me right now I am using it on CD

But yes, I'm contemplating on the 2x recovery speed for TP/MP. Back when I was a BRD there isn't a lot of times where a BV'd Paeon/Ballad is critical other than the time when things go south and your WHM has to die, then yes, double'd MP regen can be critical benefit.

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In a raid situation, the use of hypercharge after the opener, should be called and discussed with the raid. Since our damage is considered low end, the 5% buff you probably want lining up with your top dps's burst as remember this is a raid buff, that 5% is for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Zorzi

So is full time Gauss now best practise?

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I'm wondering the same question. Especially for the Wildfire situation.

rip mch burst dmg hell rip GB in general since that was the only way to use gb without it heavily affecting dps in fights. now you got to find a phase where you can cast it before boss is attackable or leave it off entirely now