New glamour dress on a male (art)

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Originally Posted by Galdous

No one is holding you back and the only reason you want dresses on men is because people think bringing politics into a game is to troll people who play a game to get away from real life? That is the only thing I can come up with when the solution is already there in being able to create both male and female characters.

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I HAVE male and female characters, and I want this in game. Not because of a political agenda but because of the fun roleplay possibilities and because I like being able to see a wide variety of individuals and styles and mixing and matching more feminine pieces with more masculine pieces could come to epic effect. I want this for the same reason I want more emotes - to allow more diversity of expression.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

accuse people of being sexist simply for having their opinions.

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Opinions can be sexist in nature. Simply being an opinion doesn't disqualify something from being sexist.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Opinions can be sexist in nature. Simply being an opinion doesn't disqualify something from being sexist.

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I said accuse people of being sexist. Do learn to read. There's been plenty of that in this thread, and it's abhorrent.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Actually, you're not. Most of this thread has been about directly converting female equipment to fit males, not making their own male version of it. Had it been the latter, I'd have happily added my support. Instead what people are doing is using this argument to attack other people who don't agree with their opinions. Much like the following quote.

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My comment was directed to someone very specific. I think some of their posts may have been removed.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

I said accuse people of being sexist. Do learn to read. There's been plenty of that in this thread, and it's abhorrent.

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Yes I read, did you read? People are free to accuse someone of being sexist when they display sexist opinions.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

I posted it in your JP thread, but traditionally belly dancers weren't only female and their modern counterparts wear outfits not dissimilar to this

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Can you rehost that image? It requires you to sign in or subscribe to see it.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

People are free to accuse someone of being sexist when they display sexist opinions.

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No, they're not. It's called jumping to conclusions, and it's the very reason this thread has become so poisonous. So, do everyone a favour and stop encouraging this behavior. Aside from being against the ToS, it's just downright rude.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

No, they're not. It's called jumping to conclusions, and it's the very reason this thread has become so poisonous. So, do everyone a favour and stop encouraging this behavior. Aside from being against the ToS, it's just downright rude.

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We are at an impasse.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

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We've had someone call men who wear dresses degenerates and you've decided to get on peoples cases for calling out sexism or bigoted behavior?

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

We've had someone call men who wear dresses degenerates and you've decided to get on peoples cases for calling out sexism or bigoted behavior?

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People honestly can't read between the lines these days. If I need to spell out every single little detail, we'd be here all week.

No, it's not on that people call others degenerates. Equally, it's not on that people are using this argument as a weapon to attack others on personal level. If people honestly want this thread to be taken seriously, then they need to act the part. With maturity, not with anger. For me, this is a topic close to the knuckle for several reasons which I wont enter into. Suffice to say, I'm on the side of those who want more gender equality.

Those who throw out insults is letting their side down and only turning this whole argument farcical. The more we can keep things civil on BOTH sides, the more constructive this thread will become. Trying to wield the 'sword of justice' and strike down a post you deem sexist is just as bad as those who claim crossdressing is degenerate.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

Outfits are not gender specific. For a mere 10 dollars or hit the button to create a new character you can have the outfit. The option is already there because you can make both male and female characters. No one is holding you back and the only reason you want dresses on men is because people think bringing politics into a game is to troll people who play a game to get away from real life? That is the only thing I can come up with when the solution is already there in being able to create both male and female characters.

The real issue though is RMT. SE should focus more on making a game as cheat free as possible.

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So much wrong here that it must itself be a troll attempt. The best way to keep RL "politics" out of games like this is to relax arbitrary restrictions on otherwise minor things like clothing. This only becomes a big deal because the designers have a very clear bias towards dressing female characters up in pretty things and making most of these outfits female-exclusive while the majority of "male" outfits are unisex.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Can you rehost that image? It requires you to sign in or subscribe to see it.

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Um, that wouldn't really be ok, but I don't have a WSJ subscription and I could see it. Try this link: http://jp.wsj.com/articles/SB1167214...992283867012#7

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Um, that wouldn't really be ok, but I don't have a WSJ subscription and I could see it. Try this link: http://jp.wsj.com/articles/SB1167214...992283867012#7

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I can vouch for Samcasar in that the original link was asking me for a subscription or to log in to view. This new link works just fine for me however.

Obviously, those who dislike this concept won't agree with those who support it. With that said, arguing against differing opinions is fruitless and self fulfilling. I'm leaving this thread, and I suggest others do so to. Pretty sure your voice has been heard.

While I hold no opinion about the whole gender equality, I can figure out why the Dev's wouldn't do it, which is the same reason that popped up in the Au'Ra argument about why they aren't beastly.
Simply, if the dress is only used by say 20% of the male population, while the female one is used by 70% of the population, in the eyes of management and of strict schedule, making the male one is simply a waste of time if only a few are going to use it.

In the eyes of the designer, if they see that their design isn't popular enough, for them that is a complete failure.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

pfffhahahaha, is that where you think you stood?

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Yes I do. Unlike you I never insulted anyone.

Okay guys, things are getting a bit personal in here with the aggression. Let's cool it a bit, yeah? ^_^'

Been busy all day but gonna get started on a version of the top with no fabric now.

Wow... the tumblrism going on in this thread.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

Um, that wouldn't really be ok, but I don't have a WSJ subscription and I could see it. Try this link: http://jp.wsj.com/articles/SB1167214...992283867012#7

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Oh that one works, thanks Eagledorf.

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Originally Posted by R-Kine

Wow... the tumblrism going on in this thread.

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Lmao, most of this stuff is hardly "tumblrism", but sure.

im all about this i'd love the skirt piece particularly for my soon to be au ra
im not about to get my hopes up though unfortunately

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Lmao, most of this stuff is hardly "tumblrism", but sure.

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The whole "you either support this or you're a bigot" vibe I'm getting from this thread is what I'd call tumblrism. You don't have to be a terrible sexist monster for finding men in dresses to be out of place and unappealing. It's like putting a saddle on a cow. If SE adds this option, even though I very much doubt it just on account of how much they avoid extra work (Miqote no longer getting tail slits on gear), I'll still find it clumsy looking.

Just like some women make a scene over "objectification" with bikini armor, there are guys who don't like seeing men in women clothing.

This thread started off as a reasonable discussion and quickly turned into hatred and petty bickering to the point of after this post I won't be reading it no more or showing my support, The biggest thing you people have to realise is it's not eachother you have to convince to allow these changes but its the Dev's and artist teams as they will be the ones refitting the outfit models to look as good as possible on each model & then there's the old equipment thats gender locked from females like the seabeads that would have to be remodeled and retextured to fit a womans model if you want all things on a fair an equal level.

In my opinion there's no male-specific clothes, except a few underwear. Like i pointed out in an earlier post, men tend to wear more functional clothes, and those are uni-sex, which is why women look better in it, than men in fem clothing.
So there's functional clothing, and sexulized clothing that fit different body types/looks.
Not all women look good in fem clothes; have you seen fem bodybuilders wearing dresses and such? they look like male cross-dressers basically. In bikini? i wonder why they even bother wearing tops...
People look good in clothes that fit their body - and well feminine clothes fit feminine bodies....masculine bodies, not so much.

I mean this is a cute story, dress, and guy, but....doesn't really fit.
http://www.etonline.com/news/2015/03...ss_uncle_1.jpg

And really, what's the point of this bikini here?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...ume-31-jpg.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UlEaGvy529o/maxresdefault.jpg

And this is why female looks good in "male" outfits
http://orig06.deviantart.net/f5b5/f/...ha-d79rcm0.jpg

MM i think it's fine as long as they add options in game to let us turn it on or off meaning we can choose if we want to see it or not. I for one feel it will make things look more goofy i mean remember http://i62.tinypic.com/vyva0y.jpg i feel ppl will just poke fun and troll. And seeing as how a guy can play as a girl or a girl as a guy do we need this? anyway ppl can live and do as they like just as i can choose what i like to see {i'm not not against guys in real life who want to cross dress but i also don't want to see it everywhere i go} nothing about what i am saying is rude or wrong it's how i feel. I'm not pushing my ways of life on anyone

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

MM i think it's fine as long as they add options in game to let us turn it on or off meaning we can choose if we want to see it or not.

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I think Lalafell are fine as long as they add options in game to let us turn them off or on meaning we can choose if we want to see them or not.

Seriously. That is a horrid suggestion. And while I may have this weird hatred of Lalafell, I don't demand anything be given to me for it - let people play what they want, and let 'em have fun with it. No different than from the Elin for me.

Both my boyfriend and I play female characters (we're a heterosexual couple. Just throwing that out there to avoid any confusion) and I know that we have quite a few amazing Glamour options that the men-characters don't have and we even have access to quite a few of their sets (Best Man's Suit being one of my favorites for my boyfriend's Midlander. He looked really dashing at our Eternal Bond Ceremony).

I love Glamour and I like the amount of options and the freedom I have and I can understand why having limited options is unfair and why others want those restrictions removed. If they're going to release what seems to be male and female only outfits and then announce the male outfit can be worn by females too, then they should also unlock the female one. Either keep them gender-locked or allow them both to be worn by either.

I mean the tank Noct Chest was clearly designed for men-characters and the women-characters could still use it (even though, imo, it looks really silly on a female, lol). But we still had the ability to have rock hard abs and amazing pecks if we wanted to! Why shouldn't the guys be allowed to have some more skirt and top options too.

Glamours for everyone all day everyday all the time!

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Originally Posted by Radacci

http://www.etonline.com/news/2015/03...ss_uncle_1.jpg

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The dress really emphasizes his tattoos actually. I think it looks great on him <3

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

The dress really emphasizes his tattoos actually. I think it looks great on him <3

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Eh, I'd like it if the colors were darker and less saturated due to his dark hair and faded tattoos and if the top was just flat rather than... idunno lumpy? Because it looks like it was obviously made for someone with bewbs, which at least to me looks out of place on a guy.

But I agree that he could look great in a dress. I just think he picked the wrong one for his figure and such. :P

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Originally Posted by Miya_Carbuncle

Eh, I'd like it if the colors were darker and less saturated due to his dark hair and faded tattoos and if the top was just flat rather than... idunno lumpy? Because it looks like it was obviously made for someone with bewbs, which at least to me looks out of place on a guy.

But I agree that he could look great in a dress. I just think he picked the wrong one for his figure and such. :P

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Well if his tat's were brand new aka blacker than the night, and he had a bit more pecs to fill those cups out. Hot dang <3

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

The dress really emphasizes his tattoos actually. I think it looks great on him <3

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See, from my perspective it looks ostentatious and pointless.
But then again I feel the same way about tattoos, but that's neither here nor there.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Whole subculture that does it there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otokonoko and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_kei I don't think they view themselves as clowns.

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First I said "hard to find"" not "impossible." Also, just because YOU don't view yourself as a clown doesn't mean others don't.
Of course there are subcultures that embrace certain ideals, and often those subcultures will bleed out into the mainstream, but there is a very, VERY steep divide, especially in Japanese society, between subcultures and the "primary" culture.
We're talking about a society where if you can't find a job by the time you graduate college, you're basically screwed. And to find this job, you must wear a conservative suit (regardless of gender) and have black hair, no piercings (except for ears for women), and ESPECIALLY no (visible) tattoos.
From this, it becomes obvious almost immediately where all these subcultures come from, and they become popular not because people actually want to dress like a victorian age woman, or dress like a black face cartoon, but simply because they run counter to the norm, because they're different.
So you have things that become popular explicitly because they're NOT normal.
Of course there are people within the subcultures who have legitimate desires to dress like a woman, but because the majority care more about standing out than truly embracing the subculture, they get lost in the sea of the fad. You won't see men in dresses walking down the streets in Japan (Akihabara, Harajuku, Shibuya, and Shinjuku being possible exceptions) but you WILL see men in scarves and wearing make-up...flanked by a few girls fawning over him.
By that same token, you'll see men in colorful caster robes in this game, but you won't see any men but hildibrand in an actual dress.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

And this is why female looks good in "male" outfits
http://orig06.deviantart.net/f5b5/f/...ha-d79rcm0.jpg

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Um really, you're comparing people who wore feminine outfits for fun and a woman who clearly has a lot of experience in cosplay and professional make up, with a wig and fake facial hair. Those men just put clothes on, that wren't made for their body shape, while she did much more work to get to look like her character and more than probably created the clothes to her own shape, so of bloody course it's gonna look normal on her, she literally turned herself into a man, you can look up at a lot of men crossplaying also and find some very decent ones! (especially some japanese men)

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

I think Lalafell are fine as long as they add options in game to let us turn them off or on meaning we can choose if we want to see them or not.

Seriously. That is a horrid suggestion. And while I may have this weird hatred of Lalafell, I don't demand anything be given to me for it - let people play what they want, and let 'em have fun with it. No different than from the Elin for me.

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Lalafell have been in this game since day 1 deal with it men in dresses have not if ppl are allowed to express why they want men in dresses then others have a right to express why they do not want men in dresses. It's called having a opinion and if ppl don't like others opinions then don't post or learn to deal with them nowhere in my other post was i rude i just said why i dis like the idea {because it looks goofy men do not look as good as girls do in dresses or at least to me} its my opinion if you dis like it move on

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Originally Posted by R-Kine

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You know that sort of thing has been going on in discussions since the 60's right? Like even MLK Jr has views in line with it. You've got to critically examine why your opinions the way they are. Why do you find it uncomfortable? Chances are, if it's "I just don't want men in dresses"or "It's just not right" you're thinking along the of, well, bigoted people, ie "I don't want people to do this because I (morally speaking) think it's wrong and my morals are the right ones".

Yeah, weird how there is bikini armor in this game? And it is somewhat of an issue in video games (You know, direct pandering to make female characters hot and appealing to strictly male audiences), so it's kind of patronizing for you to put it in quotes and act like it's a nonissue.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

Congrats for playing the "well you're problems are clearly insignificant to mine so you have no right to complain" card. You've just lost my support. I wasn't trying to dilute your issue, merely show we're on the same boat. But golly gee, guess I should just be happy and shut up now.

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LMAO you have the right to complain, but you said it as if oh poor people who play as female character get it hard too when obviously you get the big end of everything so far??? Go on and make your complain thread that you want that piece of gear if you want, but I stand by what I said, complaining here that you didn't get one version of an outfit FOR ONCE in this game while the other side is used to get nothing seems like nothing to me.

I'm saying this as a VIDEO GAME matter, not irl situation, thanks for trying to make me look like I would say the same thing if it was an important real life problem.

And your support doesn't really mean a thing in the end since it's not the opinion of the community that will decide if we get those gear or not but the devs themselves.

I don't know if I already posted this but all races and all genders in Lord of the Rings Online can crossdress and one would think that Middle Earth would be more strict about things than here? XD

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Originally Posted by Ymal

Um really, you're comparing people who wore feminine outfits for fun and a woman who clearly has a lot of experience in cosplay and professional make up, with a wig and fake facial hair. Those men just put clothes on, she did much more work to get to look like her character, so of bloody course it's gonna look normal on her, she literally turned herself into a man, you can look up at a lot of men crossplaying also and find some very decent ones! (especially some japanese men)

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you kinda missed the point.
female fits in male clothes, cause male clothes are uni-sex, fem clothes aren't.
A guy would need to transgender, to fit into fem clothes, while she doesn't have to; She could have skipped the facial hair, and been Jackie Sparrow.
Ya asian men are generally a bit more feminine looking, so it's easier for them to make it look good.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

you kinda missed the point.
female fits in male clothes, cause male clothes are uni-sex, fem clothes aren't.
A guy would need to transgender, to fit into fem clothes, while she doesn't have to; She could have skipped the facial hair, and been Jackie Sparrow.

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I just want to pipe up and say ALL clothes are unisex. Its society that chooses and labels what gender fits into what. This isn't even about being transgender lol.

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

I don't know if I already posted this but all races and all genders in Lord of the Rings Online can crossdress and one would think that Middle Earth would be more strict about things than here? XD

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Yea but this game was made in Japan and in Japan crossdressing is not a big thing and is more goofy. But sometimes works well if done right

I may have missed the point but you gave such bad pictures example for men in women clothes that I had to react. Only the first guy fill up that dress pretty well. If that woman took some random man clothes not her size she would probably look pretty bad in those too.
A good example of a young man crossplaying.
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800...0/542/ze1b.jpg
http://orig02.deviantart.net/4edf/f/...ie-d4vvqqq.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

I just want to pipe up and say ALL clothes are unisex. Its society that chooses and labels what gender fits into what. This isn't even about being transgender lol.

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Agreed. What make the 'gender' of the clothe is simply the cut if it, men don't go wear women clothes because it wouldn't fit them right or at all, while women can because men clothing usually a larger fit and can turn out to be more comfortable for them to wear.

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

Yea but this game was made in Japan and in Japan crossdressing is not a big thing and is more goofy.

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You can look at JP games like Akiba's Trip. They support crossdressing so male can become maid, schoolgirl, or anything (but you can't crossdress underwear LOL). They even gives fanservice of stripped male character too.