Please do NOT alter Dark Knight AF for female characters.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.png

Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

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Makes just as much sense like the female version.
But why didn't the male get a fabulous skirt and some boob-plates? Sexist. (sarcasm ofc)
Oh, and a bellybutton plate. And open mouth-helmet. How would people see the fabulous facial hair?

Shock value to drive a point home, although I'm really not for one or the other in regards to the female. Just thought it'd be fun to give a visual on the issue.

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do you draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1kbrzup4.png

I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do we draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psrs2ibizd.png

I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

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I like that design o.o

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1kbrzup4.png

I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

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No, it's relevant. And a sadly accurate example.

Seeing as how it isn't AF, I could take it or leave it. And taken on it's own, the female version shown on the left isn't inherently bad (hell, we still need a good leotard-looking body piece). It's when you include both male and female versions in the image -- that's where the problem starts. That overbearing forcing of GIRLS ALWAYS GOTTA BE SEXY down everyone's throats.

I'm very grateful that, for the most part, FFXIV's artists avoid this. Other than the bewildering alteration they made to the DRG AF, they otherwise tend to only put in an occasional skirt where guys get pants. Scholar AF, the level 15 dungeon sets, etc. And that is very, very easily glamoured over. Seeing as how the chest piece tends to be the centerpiece of an armor set, chopping out a cleavage/belly window is the single fastest way to wreck the whole image you were going for in the name of sex appeal.

Also, the MMO Tera's only relevance to this discussion is they take that and run with it to an utterly moronic extreme. The demon-ladies dressed in a piece of string aren't even the worst of it. No, that dubious award goes to the obligatory 'short' race, whose females look like anime twelve-year-olds, and all of their gear is lingerie. It is skeevy as hell.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

For the sake of fairness, (although I know we'll see some people pull this off somehow with some creative subligar use...);
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.png

Does this make sense when it's on a male? Double standards?

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Now see, if male and female DRK AF shared that look? No problem!

Just, y'know, it'd tell a completely different story of what Dark Knight was supposed to be. In this case, it says that this job is the comedy option.

I agree with the op. Subtly adapting to the shape of boobs should be the maximum real. But not the boob / belly window thing.

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

I did another female version. This time of one of the generic armor sets that was previewed, this one assumed to be common for all melee dps (although it shows gunner equipped). Not as extreme, but where do you draw the line? Does an exposed chest and thighs belong in battle? Or maybe we assume the look is part of an identity for the character?

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1kbrzup4.png

I don't know if this really belongs here, but it's the same discussion (let me know if this is too off-topic, and i'll remove the image).

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I think your doing a great job, capturing the true issue through great visuals and use of talent. The only problem i see with it is many are going to ignore the message because their to busy hopeing your accurate in your presentations of the "female armor" option. Some people say prudes, some claim fantasy is greater than sense, few bother to understand that these characters are someones representation of themselves in the world of Erozea. Speaking as a guy, yes i don't mind the skimpy stuff on a female characters ( i have stated this in previous post in this thread).

My issue is when i to look at this as a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompom's like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I think your doing a great job, capturing the true issue through great visuals and use of talent. The only problem i see with it is many are going to ignore the message because their to busy hoping you accurate if your presentations of the "female armor" option. Some people say prudes, some claim fantasy is greater than sense, few bother to understand that these characters are someones representation of themselves in the world of Erozea. Speaking as a guy, yes i don't mind the skimpy stuff on a female characters ( i have stated this in previous post in this thread). My issue is when i to look at this like a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompoms like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

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This could actually also be part of why some people don't get why its so upsetting to some, myself included. The reason I include myself is because I know many women who would probably not care or even very much like it. Everyone has different tastes, it isn't just a straight up "men like skimpy women outfits thats why they made it this way" type of thing.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

So when I see these threads where people are clamoring for their female character to wear EXACTLY what a man wears, I shake my head in disappointment. If you want to play as a girl and look like a dude because you think it's more respectful, then just get a male character with long hair, problem solved.

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http://i.imgur.com/R83uHva.jpg?1

No

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Originally Posted by Alacran

My issue is when i to look at this as a father, a brother, someone who loves the idea of sharing this with the females in his life, how do i explain to them why when i play a DRG i look like a warrior that is trained and outfitted to fight dragons, when they do it it looks like should just sit on the sideline with some pompom's like good little cheerleaders waiting for me to be done being the hero?

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This is a good way to illustrate the point. Speaking personally, fully half the people I know who play MMOs (which are a lot of people) are women -- and demographic studies have shown that this isn't far off from the greater whole. I don't think I've ever heard a single one of these ladies say they object to sexy imagery altogether, but most of them agree that having the choice is better and makes it feel as if the game's artists are paying them due respect, as fans, by providing that choice. That means keeping a job's core look relatively under control and not going in dramatically different directions for each gender.

Putting myself in the FFXIV artists' heads over the DRG thing: It's possible that they figured the belly-window was fine because the DRG AF is supposed to look outlandish anyway. This is backed up by dragoons' depictions in Heavensward media as being almost kamikaze-crazy -- they're Ishgard's meanest and most fervent, they're less interested in self-preservation and more interested in being these ominous, deadly-quick bladed-armored nightmares to Ishgard's enemies. Yet even still, the belly-window still comes off as a weird off-color attempt at sex appeal, because the look of the male set already does just fine for this image.

Compare the Scholar AF. While Scholars have Eorzean lore, the concept itself is far more self-explanatory than those of Dragoons. They're students of higher learning, and this is their uniform. Guys get pants, girls get a skirt. The skirt gives them a touch of the classic "schoolgirl" image. This is absolutely fine. It's recognizable, doesn't detract from the Scholar's persona, and is a perfectly excellent fashion choice in it's own right.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Mahri (OP) actually says they feel like sexy time has its place in game so... not the OP's point to be prudish and devolved. Are you talking about someone in particular?

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Heh, most of them aren't actually reading the post, they're just seeing the thread title and their shrill little "SJW-alert" goes off. Oh my GOD you guuuyyyss someone on the INTERNET wants to take my wank-material aawaaaaaaahhhhhhayyyyyyyyyyyy.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

This could actually also be part of why some people don't get why its so upsetting to some, myself included. The reason I include myself is because I know many women who would probably not care or even very much like it.Everyone has different tastes, it isn't just a straight up "men like skimpy women outfits thats why they made it this way" type of thing.

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You are correct as a person you are entitled to your taste in fashion ma'am. Quite simply i would like the job to come first and foremost, i am a DRK fan, i believe altering a great design would be damaging to the lore of the character. Uniformity lends wight to appearance, the old saying you never get a second chance to make a first impression comes to mind.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/connecti...niform-new.jpg
(this is a uniform i wear in my professional life)

Obviously the officers here are of different appearance and gender, however i feel without question they are of the same profession.

http://goodmenproject.com/wp-content...15/01/nypd.jpg
These are male Police officers.


http://www.easyshopping2010.com/imag...ths/su18-1.jpg

All jokes aside (and yes there are many (and yes that has a dual meaning)), can you honestly tell me that is a proud female Police officer? This was found with the following goggle image search "female police uniform".

nah, I want my character to looks good.

I just love how this topic only comes up in the English forums. What is the problem of western people with exposing some skin on a VIRTUAL character. Or try to make a point with "WELL IN real live they don't wear this" yeah reality in a game with dragons and stuff.
I don't agree with OP because women in male armor is just ugly and boring. I play a female character because female armor just looks better in my eyes. Female's should have more feminine armor and not run around in a Burka. And people going on about wank material, i mean really? It's about pleasing to the eye and when you need a game to get off than you are doing it wrong on the internet xD.

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Originally Posted by mekia

I just love how this topic only comes up in the English forums. What is the problem of western people with exposing some skin on a VIRTUAL character. Or try to make a point with "WELL IN real live they don't wear this" yeah reality in a game with dragons and stuff.
I don't agree with OP because women in male armor is just ugly and boring. I play a female character because female armor just looks better in my eyes. Female's should have more feminine armor and not run around in a Burka. And people going on about wank material, i mean really? It's about pleasing to the eye and when you need a game to get off than you are doing it wrong on the internet xD.

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they want everyone to wear full heavy armor from head to toe. why do we need character creation at all if we're gonna dress like that?

they're people who like Kratos, the Hulk, Juggernaut, and all the boring musclehead protagonists. FF devs shouldn't listen to them. imagine if all the JRPGs have a protagonists like Dark Souls protagonist. can't even see his face. imagine Cloud Strife & Sephiroth in full armor with stupid iron helm. I wouldn't even bother to play it.

Hahaha, it's like clockwork. See what I mean about them not actually reading my post?

Nearing 300 upvotes for the point made. Listen to the kiddos scream.

Anyway, a visual, thanks to Kanemano's art.

This, right here, is ridiculous:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Now these taken both at the same time? Is infuriating (seriously I just got an instant five Wrath stacks just posting it -- they don't call it social justice warrior for nothin', rawrrrrr):

http://i.imgur.com/ypeUNms.pnghttp://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

THIS, however? Is hilarious:

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0q1ufxqm.pnghttp://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Learn to parse. It's about equal treatment, kids. This ain't rocket science.

One thing I like about JRPG is how women can look tough and beautiful at the same time.

and it's always like this from the beginning.

you don't need to make a big hole on your armor to be sexy. I think SE can get it right (the female dragoon AF is ridiculous though).

http://i.imgur.com/iBIEfwX.jpg

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Originally Posted by Evangela

FF devs shouldn't listen to them. imagine if all the JRPGs have a protagonists like Dark Souls protagonist. can't even see his face. imagine Cloud Strife & Sephiroth in full armor with stupid iron helm. I wouldn't even bother to play it.

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I would respect em, instead of laughing at them.

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery...ysswalker1.jpg

or

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Beachwear.png

Yeah... i know what i would choose.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

imagine if all the JRPGs have a protagonists like Dark Souls protagonist. can't even see his face

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Excuse me, I spend like an hour in character creation in a Souls game each time. I wear that stuff because I want to protect my beautiful face, okay (which may or may not be all gross and zombie at any given time but WHO CARES, I'M PRETTY ON THE INSIDE)

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Originally Posted by Evangela

you don't need to make a big hole on your armor to be sexy. I think SE can get it right (the female dragoon AF is ridiculous though).

http://i.imgur.com/iBIEfwX.jpg

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Your posts on the last page didn't lead me to believe you'd not be putting up something sensible here, but there you go and do it. Bare legs? Hell, Romans are fine with 'em.

My main complaint on that note is more the fact that most races get really twiggy legs. Especially females. Seems only Highlandresses got respectable thigh definition.

Since we're doin' this, here's my own character in the presently-armored look. Not fully armored head-to-toe, see. This is pretty much my own standard for "sensible" in this game.

http://i.imgur.com/4XsItBl.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ashrak

I would respect em, instead of laughing at them.

http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery...ysswalker1.jpg

or

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Beachwear.png

Yeah... i know what i would choose.

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play western games then. don't play JP games and ask the devs to change stuffs.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

play western games then. don't play JP games and ask the devs to change stuffs.

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Dark Souls is by FromSoft a Japanese company, Japanese are not incapable of well geared females.. Even though I must repeat because I think people are not reading into the OP right, the OP is not saying all females must be covered up but that there should be equal and logical treatment. OP does not want to see all the sexy outfits to be removed.

Also skirts, just to add to the photo you posted, are not an uncommon real life gear piece - as they offer a lot of mobility so long as your training incorporates saving your legs lol (though probably a bit longer than your photo its still a skirt armor- still would be real"ish").

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Originally Posted by Evangela

play western games then.

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But... the Dark Souls-Franchise is a japanese IP?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

don't play JP games and ask the devs to change stuffs.

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wait! WAIT! You are the one who wants the Dark Knight receives a completely pointless Boobwindow? Mahri, me and 300 other players want the aesthetics of the armor is also maintained for women?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

they want everyone to wear full heavy armor from head to toe. why do we need character creation at all if we're gonna dress like that?

they're people who like Kratos, the Hulk, Juggernaut, and all the boring musclehead protagonists. FF devs shouldn't listen to them. imagine if all the JRPGs have a protagonists like Dark Souls protagonist. can't even see his face. imagine Cloud Strife & Sephiroth in full armor with stupid iron helm. I wouldn't even bother to play it.

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http://i.imgur.com/blXwFLq.jpg

Excuse me?

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Originally Posted by Ashrak

But... the Dark Souls-Franchise is a japanese IP?

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It's a Japanese game created to make money off of westerners. there you have a JP dev that will listen to you, go play their games and you can beg for boring heavy armors.

What??????

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Originally Posted by Evangela

It's a Japanese game created to make money off of westerners. there you have a JP dev that will listen to you, go play their games and you can beg for boring heavy armors.

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http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/04/...-drops-to-6th/

AYYYY

"Dark Souls II dominates the Ps4 PSN sales chart in Japan while bloodborne drops to 6th."

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

Female Dark Knight with major changes;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Which would you prefer?

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This. Because the SJW meltdown would be hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

It's a Japanese game created to make money off of westerners. there you have a JP dev that will listen to you, go play their games and you can beg for boring heavy armors.

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I guess you should play Dead or Alive instead of Final Fantasy XIV. <3

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Originally Posted by Ashrak

I guess you should play Dead or Alive instead of Final Fantasy XIV. <3

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and you should play Dragon Age instead of FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The double standard exists in real life, but the opposite. Females can wear male clothing, and female clothing, but if men go into, say, Victoria's secret and start trying on stuff, they would be thrown out.

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So i got curious and decided to look this up.

Best I can tell is that while company policy of victoria's secret is actually all inclusive, but not a lot of people at the company know about their own company policy :V Maybe they've gotten better about it in recent years who knows.

So whether or not a dude can use the fitting room in a victoria's secret is usually up to the store manager.

-shrug-

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Originally Posted by Evangela

and you should play Dragon Age instead of FFXIV.

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Name one FF where they specifically design skimpy armour over the personality of the character. If there has been any character in skimpy armour then there has been a reason for it in FF.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Name one FF where they specifically design skimpy armour over the personality of the character. If there has been any character in skimpy armour then there has been a reason for it in FF.

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well, besides lightning?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2..._Nightmare.png

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

Female Dark Knight with major changes;
http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psdsv7qnnd.png

Which would you prefer?

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This looks awesome. Good work! Can see me wearing that on my DRK for a long time. The alteration you made for the male exposing more looks good too.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

snip.

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Please no, I don't want to get stabbed in the stomach all the time.

There's a Kickstarter Board Game (that might see the light of day soon) where one of the armors for the characters - Dragon King armor, has the chest exposed, for both Male and Female version, to represent the one weakness the Dragon King has~

http://kingdomdeath.com/ks_images/dr...malepose1d.gif
http://kingdomdeath.com/ks_images/dr...malepose1a.gif

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Originally Posted by Nephera

well, besides lightning?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2..._Nightmare.png

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Lightning Returns FFXIII DARK Knight.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ark_Knight.png

Please do alter it.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Name one FF where they specifically design skimpy armour over the personality of the character. If there has been any character in skimpy armour then there has been a reason for it in FF.

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http://cdn8.staztic.com/app/a/994/99...-s-307x512.jpg
I see her navel


Her original outfit from FF X cover more skin (but still show the navel)
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...ya-d5u5zzr.jpg

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Name one FF where they specifically design skimpy armour over the personality of the character. If there has been any character in skimpy armour then there has been a reason for it in FF.

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http://www.platformnation.com/wp-con...10/11/Yuna.jpg And most of her other costumes.

Lightning (especially) and also all her other costumes

High fantasy style, from Mevius Final Fantasy.

http://otavafiles.fi/plaza/s/f/edito...us-sankari.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kanemano

High fantasy style, from Mevius Final Fantasy.

http://otavafiles.fi/plaza/s/f/edito...us-sankari.jpg

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I thought they actually toned that one down,sadly. :/