Please give archer a dagger.

In FF universe at least, pet classes are specialist, unlike the generic styled MMO where everyone can tame a pet and the only limitation is if it requires an item with a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a level 190 Boss.

Some weapons are 1 handed, others are 2 handed.

Bow and arrow is a 2-handed system.

Mages get clubs and staves but they can't both be equipped at the same time. They are both also similar weapon types. It's one thing to complain about weapon variety for Archer, but you really can't demand a different weapon type considering the rules mentioned above. Otherwise you're only equipping a dagger and fighting close range which is not what an Archer is as defined by the developers.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

In FF universe at least, pet classes are specialist, unlike the generic styled MMO where everyone can tame a pet and the only limitation is if it requires an item with a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a level 190 Boss.

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i agree that is the norm in the FF universe....but 14 isnt exactly the norm in the FF universe either from simply looking at the job classes...

most the classes are a mix of the classic FF jobs...so why not mix another pair? ranger and bst?

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Originally Posted by Sypherblade

i agree that is the norm in the FF universe....but 14 isnt exactly the norm in the FF universe either from simply looking at the job classes...

most the classes are a mix of the classic FF jobs...so why not mix another pair? ranger and bst?

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Let's also not forget they're bringing back the classic jobs for the job system, as well as the fact there's a pet class already present -- Shepard.

I think this is a big misunderstanding and a lot are blaming code and other ridiculous reasons for why they won't give you daggers.

The armoury system is named because it revolves around the weapon you use, the classes are named after each weapon. In the Japanese version the class names are simply "Fist user" "Bow User" etc etc. this sounds stupid in English so were given fancy names that mean the same thing by definition.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=20024

The way the new job system sounds is adding a template onto your "Bow User" to make it more then just an archer. I think Matsui is trying to explain this without giving details away but given the name scheme it makes no sense to give archer a dagger or pugilist kicks. "The nature of the armoury system".

I think we will see this kind of thing down the road with the job system so im not worried about the current classes as they are just building blocks to a stronger job.

How about no auto attack for archers.....just spaming CD

Ironically they couldnt give archer a dagger but had no compunction whatsoever about giving it a harp, lol.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Ironically they couldnt give archer a dagger but had no compunction whatsoever about giving it a harp, lol.

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Harp will be on a different job though, which doesn't effect the armoury system.

I still don't understand why they can't give Archer Auto-shot.

Hopefully they will eventually, although here's hoping that this combo system they're adding in 1.20 will make it feel less necessary.

Is this necro-thread week or something?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Harp will be on a different job though, which doesn't effect the armoury system.

I still don't understand why they can't give Archer Auto-shot.

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wtf.lol.

Please for the love of god I hope they never give Archer Autoattack!

Archer is the only fun combat class anymore ever since they ruined the combat system for every other class.

As for the harp thing. JOb is supposed to be specialisation of a class, not a new class altogether, which is what a harp creates.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I still don't understand why they can't give Archer Auto-shot.

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If you don't get this, it is because you don't understand how to properly play the class.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

If you don't get this, it is because you don't understand how to properly play the class.

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Oh got the archer brigade in here have we ?? !!

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As for the harp thing. JOb is supposed to be specialisation of a class, not a new class altogether, which is what a harp creates.

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Yea they already said that Job would have access to new weapons and armor (AF etc)

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Oh got the archer brigade in here have we ?? !!



Yea they already said that Job would have access to new weapons and armor (AF etc)

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Once you get multishot and some of the more advanced archer abilities, you will understand better why ranged AA is not a good option for Archer.

Archers should auto-attack with bow & arrow, which is the whole point of being an archer. Furthermore, they should have two auto attacks, one with arrows at a distance and one that switches to dagger at close range.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Once you get multishot and some of the more advanced archer abilities, you will understand better why ranged AA is not a good option for Archer.

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I have multishot !!, pisses me off when someone acts like a condescending scrote just because he has a class at 50.

I guess I can talk down to you just because your CNJ isn't 50 huh ?

Fact is I want archer to have auto-shot, so take your attitude and shove it. :D

So for Archers that want Auto shot.. you really want a slower rate of attack? I find archer to be able to deliver the fastest attacks...

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I have multishot !!, pisses me off when someone acts like a condescending scrote just because he has a class at 50.

I guess I can talk down to you just because your CNJ isn't 50 huh ?

Fact is I want archer to have auto-shot, so take your attitude and shove it. :D

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Then where is your multishot achievement on your lodestone and/or xivpads profile?

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Originally Posted by Nuru

So for Archers that want Auto shot.. you really want a slower rate of attack? I find archer to be able to deliver the fastest attacks...

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Thats true, they are also the highest enmity chasers (it has been nerfed somewhat though) and then cry up when they die from pulling too much aggro.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats true, they are also the highest enmity chasers (it has been nerfed somewhat though) and then cry up when they die from pulling too much aggro.

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Then wouldn't it be more difficult if Auto shot was implemented? I find it easier the way it is now. I can understand if people wanted Auto Shot, but it would only slow the rate of attack, and that is pretty much all that would change :P

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats true, they are also the highest enmity chasers (it has been nerfed somewhat though) and then cry up when they die from pulling too much aggro.

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This used to be true. It is not anymore. You're a couple patches behind in your knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Nuru

Then wouldn't it be more difficult if Auto shot was implemented? I find it easier the way it is now. I can understand if people wanted Auto Shot, but it would only slow the rate of attack, and that is pretty much all that would change :P

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No it wouldn't be much different, you can only spam so many skills per second and only fire so many auto shots per second.

In fact from a balancing point of view auto shot is better as it is normal value across all players. (of course this doesn't matter much seeing as SE couldn't balance a paper plate on a table)

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This used to be true. It is not anymore. You're a couple patches behind in your knowledge.

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I was playing with an ARC an hour ago, I was GLD and he would not stop pulling hate, but then I guess it mine and the MRDs fault huh for not being able to keep hate?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I was playing with an ARC an hour ago, I was GLD and he would not stop pulling hate, but then I guess it mine and the MRDs fault huh for not being able to keep hate?

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I would imagine so. If you have Intimidate on, Provoke, Taunt, Disorient, Warmonger, Wardrum for Gladiators and most importantly Accomplice one of you should have no trouble holding hate. Hell I remember once for fun I tried to pull hate off a Gladiator on my Marauder, couldn't do it because they kept using Accomplice on me lol.

Edit: Also the Archer should probably have Out of Sight on at the least, though Chameleon would be good to. Hate management can be a group effort and is often better for it when people do work together to keep it going in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Miliant

Archers should auto-attack with bow & arrow, which is the whole point of being an archer. Furthermore, they should have two auto attacks, one with arrows at a distance and one that switches to dagger at close range.

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Switch to gladiator if you want to use a dagger at close range...

Giving classes (which are weapon specialists) access to multiple branches of weaponry, some of which are already monopolised by pre-existing classes is just confusing and would make the game even more stupid than it already is by giving archer a harp.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I would imagine so. If you have Intimidate on, Provoke, Taunt, Disorient, Warmonger, Wardrum for Gladiators and most importantly Accomplice one of you should have no trouble holding hate. Hell I remember once for fun I tried to pull hate off a Gladiator on my Marauder, couldn't do it because they kept using Accomplice on me lol.

Edit: Also the Archer should probably have Out of Sight on at the least, though Chameleon would be good to. Hate management can be a group effort and is often better for it when people do work together to keep it going in the right direction.

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We were level 15-18, I doubt you could put all those abilities on your bar at that level nor would he had bought out of sight.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

We were level 15-18, I doubt you could put all those abilities on your bar at that level nor would he had bought out of sight.

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Well that makes things a bit different, at that level though I mean there's nothing you can really do for hate management. Of course Archer's going to grab hate, Gladiator does pretty lousy damage and Marauder doesn't have most of its best AoE abilities yet and as such also does pretty lousy damage, especially against a single target. When damage is the only deciding factor for enmity of course Archer is going to pull hate over Gladiator and Marauder.

I would Hate to lose my basic attack for an Auto attack.
I'd love the other classes to go back to having the short basic attack like archer and not have AA on any class tbh.
Or the option to do that anyway lol. AA drives me nuts on most classes other then ARC..

Sso for me 100% no on less control and Ranged AA on archer.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Once you get multishot and some of the more advanced archer abilities, you will understand better why ranged AA is not a good option for Archer.

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Pretty much this.

Even generic MMOs don't give their ranged classes an auto-shot depending on mechanics.

or how about to do a ranged auto attack with the bow? for the playstyle of an archer i think, its sensless that an archer has a melee attack for close combat.

archer is the only class who feels like that it didnt received the feature of an auto attack.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Pretty much this.

Even generic MMOs don't give their ranged classes an auto-shot depending on mechanics.

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Eh? In Lineage II the archer had an bow type auto attack... and why not??
its stupid that the class performs an auto attack without any weapon eh?

the weapon of an archer is the bow, and he should auto attack with the bow!
its sensless how it is now.

its the only class right now which doesnt auto attack with his weapon. silly isnt it?

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Originally Posted by Esk

I would Hate to lose my basic attack for an Auto attack.
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And why? because you dont hear the "*weep* *weep*" tone every second? or that you dont have to click every second for a silly standard attack?

And i can only say for the mage classes.. although they received a melee auto attack for their staff weapons they havent lost their basic ranged attack..

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Once you get multishot and some of the more advanced archer abilities, you will understand better why ranged AA is not a good option for Archer.

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And why? whats the reason? elaborate please.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And why? whats the reason? elaborate please.

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You get more benefit for stacking up arrows and spiking your damage with multishot, even if attack buffs aren't as potent for multishot now (personally I felt they were ridiculously broken before the patch). Alternatively you can add some spike damage and use Quelling strike to make sure you don't get too much hate in the process.

A lot of the changes have been made over the last couple of major patches with long-term goals in mind, so when we see class revamps we might get more incentive to time shots/multishots.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

its stupid that the class performs an auto attack without any weapon eh?

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Archer is the only good class anymore, specifically because autoattack is not a basis for its gameplay.

Archer has an arrow in the left hand the whole time it is active mode, why not just use that, arrows have their own damage stats already as well.

Yeah, I know it's a silly idea to use something that is already there. Forget I typed this and that you read it....

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Originally Posted by XyonicS

Archer has an arrow in the left hand the whole time it is active mode, why not just use that, arrows have their own damage stats already as well.

Yeah, I know it's a silly idea to use something that is already there. Forget I typed this and that you read it....

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While I like the visual, Archers shouldn't be fighting up close anyway. Dagger, hand, arrow thrust through someone's eye socket... Doesn't really matter because an archer who is in melee range needs to play a melee class and stop making the rest of us look bad.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

While I like the visual, Archers shouldn't be fighting up close anyway. Dagger, hand, arrow thrust through someone's eye socket... Doesn't really matter because an archer who is in melee range needs to play a melee class and stop making the rest of us look bad.

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I am sorry, I tend to solo, so I guess I should just stop trying to level Archer then so I never get it into melee range again, Ok I will do that, or maybe they should make it so the mobs see it's an Archer and so as not to make it look bad, will it self only use ranged, hmmm, maybe not. Some 1337 players should maybe try to think first that we are not all as good as they are, casue if we were they would not be 1337.

Anyway as I said forget my post from before, should have read that bit, maybe.

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Originally Posted by XyonicS

I am sorry, I tend to solo, so I guess I should just stop trying to level Archer then so I never get it into melee range again, Ok I will do that, or maybe they should make it so the mobs see it's an Archer and so as not to make it look bad, will it self only use ranged, hmmm, maybe not. Some 1337 players should maybe try to think first that we are not all as good as they are, casue if we were they would not be 1337.

Anyway as I said forget my post from before, should have read that bit, maybe.

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Try close shot. It has this nifty bonus. It not only does damage but it binds your enemy in place so that you can get away. Amazing that it does that. It's almost like the devs want archers to be able to keep their distance.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Try close shot. It has this nifty bonus. It not only does damage but it binds your enemy in place so that you can get away. Amazing that it does that. It's almost like the devs want archers to be able to keep their distance.

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Yep I use it, but sadly in most leve quests you are not taking on one mob. While I know you get a lot more stuff at the top end of the class, at the lower end it is not to great, I use shadowbind and close shot, but often with multi mobs at my level, it's still melee time. Also in this case as well, if the bind fails either with the first shot or is broken with the following shot, it will still have some melee. It's different to when in a party and you have a tank holding the mob.

EDIT: I also don't just stand and melee, lol. I fire the bow as fast as the game will let me till the next chance to run away a bit. I just figure while in that spot why not do more than the lowest damage in the game with an auto attack. I would prefer that just removed the auto for Archer and put back the attack that was there at the start, let us control it better, Also save stupid auto attack breaking the bind I just put on the mob before I could even turn to move away.

Is funny cause in real life if I was hunting something that would attack me if I shot at it at range, I would be in a place where it could not reach me. Sadly we can't do it in MMO's, but then it would not really be fair either.

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Archer is the only good class anymore, specifically because autoattack is not a basis for its gameplay.

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I totally forgot that the whacks from a wand or a scepter makes auto-attack on Conjurers and Thaumaturges so essential to the doings of their class roles and is so exceedingly gratifying....

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Originally Posted by ellohwell

Archer is the only good class anymore, specifically because autoattack is not a basis for its gameplay.

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well i think then you are alone with your opinion... its inconsistent, that archer was the only class which hasnt received an auto attack for his weapon.

and my conjurer and thm make much more fun than before.... where i always had to draw my weapon first if i want to cast a spell... now it plays a lot of smoother (not that smooth than it could be).
but its a step into the right direction. but non-autoattack systems are "trendy" and overvalued like you can see in Wahrammer Online (and saw in FF14). And i think in WoW it wont be that popular either after a while.

why you hold down to the non-auto attack system? is it important to press every 2 secs a meep* meep* button to perform an unimportant basic attack which only is there for generating tp? while i could concentrate much more on more important skills at that time. the combat feels overloaded and unsmooth without auto attack. i didnt liked it as well in Warhammer online for example.. it leaded to a button smash orgy with global cooldown to all skills (yeah its so "trendy" lets try out something "new" and these things.)...

hum... dont really get it sorry. its only annoying. i posted that video of Final Fantasy 12 combat in an other thread yet.. but i think this is how a FF MMorpg combat should be ... and it plays very smoothly with an auto attack:

I still believe that punching a monster with your fist as an archer doesn't make any since. After all, if you were to hurt your hand, you couldn't fire your bow. (Not in this game, but in real life, and also I know this is a game).

That being said, having a tagger, or stabbing them with the arrow would make more since, for an auto attack then a punch. The dagger/dirk if you will, or arrow, wouldn't do more or less damage then the punch does now, all it really changes is the animation. Perhaps they have something planned with Bard.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

hum... dont really get it sorry. its only annoying. i posted that video of Final Fantasy 12 combat in an other thread yet.. but i think this is how a FF MMorpg combat should be ... and it plays very smoothly with an auto attack:

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FFXII's combat is a modified FFXI combat system (it was stated they basically took XI's system and redid it to how they wanted it to be originally.)

Something along those lines. Therein lies the problem -- With FFXII they took something that worked and made it better, but with FFXIV they took something that worked and threw it out the window.