[dev1008] Petition to have Jumping implement

I don't want a space bar jump but I wouldn't mind an auto jump of sorts. I would like to run to a fence and auto hurdle over it or run up to a ledge and auto pull myself up onto it or auto jump down from other ledges.

The problem with it I believe is because SE like to MoCap the animations for these thing so they look nice rests with Lalafell's as silly as it sounds. As other races are much taller than Lalafells jumping to ledges and hurdling over things is fine but with Lalafell's as they are so small in comparison to other races will mean they have problems making the animation fit. A Roegadyn would be able to jump and reach ledges much higher than a Lalafell with a nice smooth animation, where as a Lalafell would have to jump a considerable distance from the ground to reach that same height and that would not look right.

So as much as I would like to be able to jump off a cliff and dive into a river or jump up ledges I think we are being held back by our little friends ; ;

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Originally Posted by Evangela

you're not the one who can make the decision

stop acting like you're a dev

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That is not my decision to make. Yoshida's decision was Jump isn't important and therefore put it on the backburner basically.

For people who spend so much time on these forums you dont read much do you.. Yoshi said he wants to add jump down the line "Emote style" you can use it to get over those pesky cliffs and not be so tied to the earth. He said nothing of active jumping.

Im not sure why vesperia even plays, sounds like he/she hates the game and all of us "ffxi nerds". This thread was started by a RPer. Are you surprised by her opinions? she wants to "run like the wind", peacocks gotta fly damnit! and Rpers gotta jump!

Nothing against decent RPers but only an RPer would think jump is the most important feature in a game.

im against jumping

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I don't want a space bar jump but I wouldn't mind an auto jump of sorts. I would like to run to a fence and auto hurdle over it or run up to a ledge and auto pull myself up onto it or auto jump down from other ledges.

The problem with it I believe is because SE like to MoCap the animations for these thing so they look nice rests with Lalafell's as silly as it sounds. As other races are much taller than Lalafells jumping to ledges and hurdling over things is fine but with Lalafell's as they are so small in comparison to other races will mean they have problems making the animation fit. A Roegadyn would be able to jump and reach ledges much higher than a Lalafell with a nice smooth animation, where as a Lalafell would have to jump a considerable distance from the ground to reach that same height and that would not look right.

So as much as I would like to be able to jump off a cliff and dive into a river or jump up ledges I think we are being held back by our little friends ; ;

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Mocap isn't the problem. "Swimming" and etc truly is a worthless mechanic unless the game is designed for it, which XIV is not. There's nothing under the water in XIV for example, it's not like FFX where there's a very obvious use for water mechanics even if it was physic raping.

FFXI Nerds, a good word

the fact is no one out of average MMO players can accept a 2010 3D MMORPG which can't jump

people who enjoy playing the game at this moment and don't want to jump is FFXI players because the other already left the game

every site/magazines review this game and listed "Can't Jump" as one of bad thing in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Mocap isn't the problem. "Swimming" and etc truly is a worthless mechanic unless the game is designed for it, which XIV is not. There's nothing under the water in XIV for example, it's not like FFX where there's a very obvious use for water mechanics even if it was physic raping.

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LOL, you told me you're a programmer or a developer? with your attitude like this.. I don't think any company want to hire you except Dragon Quest dev team

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Originally Posted by Evangela

people who enjoy playing the game at this moment and don't want to jump is FFXI players because the other already left the game

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Most of the people in my shell never played FFXI. If all other MMOs have the mechanic, why aren't you busy playing them? Serious question. If as you say:

"No one out of average MMO players can accept a 2010 3D MMO which can't Jump"

Why stick around here?

http://forums.riftgame.com/

Here you go. Why waste your time here then?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

LOL, you told me you're a programmer or a developer? with your attitude like this.. I don't think any company want to hire you except Dragon Quest dev team

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You're such a troll lol. Animation have nothing to do with it - If there's nothing there you can't utilize it; FFXIV's water is a bitmap then empty space, there's nothing there, hence in her example which compared FFX to FFXIV, if you're going to make a swimming mechanic you need something there - FFX had Blitzball and some Underwater boss fights; FFXIV has nothing but a bitmap.

If you think you can't change it, you can't do it because of this because of that

then stop calling yourself a developer

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You're such a troll lol. Animation have nothing to do with it - If there's nothing there you can't utilize it; FFXIV's water is a bitmap then empty space, there's nothing there, hence in her example which compared FFX to FFXIV, if you're going to make a swimming mechanic you need something there - FFX had Blitzball and some Underwater boss fights; FFXIV has nothing but a bitmap.

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And adding props and mobs in the underwater areas is impossible.

No wait, it's not, it's pretty easy.

That and a shader that simulates underwater visual distortion and you've got bioshock style underwater areas.


I agree, for a developer he is too shortsighted lol.


And yes to jumping, anything that can be later used for more engaging fights is welcome.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how badly designed XIV is - Then people want underwater content? You do know that AO is horribly bugged, correct? That means if they were to "add a shader that simulated underwater distortion" it would do nothing but kill your FPS and thus render it unplayable while underwater for many.

AO is a basic shading technique and it's horribly bugged.

oooh yeah! bitmap eating my legs

http://images.wwe.in.th/uploads/1306065418.jpg

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Originally Posted by Evangela

oooh yeah! bitmap eating my legs

http://images.wwe.in.th/uploads/1306065418.jpg

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You all will never walk again :(

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I demand one of these choices

1. Move it back to high priority task

or

2. Just tell me in the next letter... Will you ever implement jumping or not?


It might be silly but their answer is important

if they can't make a decision about this, I'll see the future of this game

while another big name MMOs coming out this year with a lot of features and contents if SE still bother themselves, thinking about they should add jumping or not and need half a year to decide... this game not gonna go anywhere else

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Lol, I was trying to resist replying to this thread because we all know it's not going anywhere. But my lord, this has to be the most childish thing I've ever seen someone post on these forums. "Give me what I want or I quit." That's the mentality of a spoiled 5 year old. Do you REALLY believe that not adding jump will doom this game??

Seriously, if you believe that jump is more important than, say, a complete battle system overhaul, then perhaps it's your priorities that are completely out of whack, not SE's. There's SO many MMOs out there with jump already, and content designed around it. I'm sure you'd have much more fun with them. Not having jump is one of the better "being different" approaches they took with this game IMO.

And you do realize how long it would take for them to implement jumping and swimming content? They would have to rework the whole foundation all over again. Surely even you could see that the current battle system, and likely the incoming one, would not work with jumping. I was fine waiting this long for the changes they're doing now. But to do it all over again for jump? No thanks.

If it's that important to you, there's plenty of other games that you might find more suitable for your tastes. But for FFXIV, I'm glad they've decided to focus on much more important issues.

LOL, now mr. game developer is using the FPS excuse.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how badly designed XIV is - Then people want underwater content? You do know that AO is horribly bugged, correct? That means if they were to "add a shader that simulated underwater distortion" it would do nothing but kill your FPS and thus render it unplayable while underwater for many.

AO is a basic shading technique and it's horribly bugged.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

LOL, now mr. game developer is using the FPS excuse.

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You don't even play the game lol, anyone who does knows AO kills your FPS and if they can't even get a basic shading technique how do you expect them to get "underwater" distortion to not kill your PC?

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Originally Posted by Ilean

LOL, now mr. game developer is using the FPS excuse.

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Ile[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

You wrote:

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That and a shader that simulates underwater visual distortion and you've got bioshock style underwater areas.

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You do know Ambient Occ is a fairly basic shading technique right? You also know that if you cut it on it will take off 50% of your FPS no matter how good your rig is. So you expect them to get something like this to be bug free when the most basic of options is bugged to holy hell?

Then again, you don't even play the game or you'd know that it's universally accepted the graphics in this game is bugged to ***.

AO is not bugged, but unoptimized. It gets applied to the whole world and that kills performance. Just like Player Characters tax the engine the same if they are in front of you or at the max draw distance.

But here is a shocker for you: Water reflections are a shader too and I don't see it killing my performance.

You guys should probably stop with the "I am a developer", "I know coding" thing, you obviously lack the most basic technical knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

AO is not bugged

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It's bugged. Unoptimized AO doesn't kill your FPS by up to 50%, sometimes more if your rig isn't up to par. I've played games with unoptimized AO and that's just not properly shading the areas it should, not killing my FPS.

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But here is a shocker for you: Water reflections are a shader too and I don't see it killing my performance.

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Here's a shocker for you:

So is Bloom.

Know what else is a shocker?

There's varying levels of what a shader does. Some require more performance than others. You speak of people not knowing basic knowledge, you seem to forget that different shaders are manipulated through different means.

Ladies ladies, your all pretty

enough with the dumb bickering :P


this discussion is pointless at this point

jump will eventualy be added
but its low priority(with good reason)
yelling at SE and making ultimatums will not get it in faster

Let's say you get your jump feature. Guess what? You're still not going to be able to jump across that rock. Want to know why? There's still an invisible wall there, DUH! Jump will NOT do anything neither in nor of itself to even remotely improve gameplay.

Contextual jumping is all ANY MMORPG needs, at best.

P.S. AO in XIV is indeed extremely bugged, period.

I say make jump only activate when you collide into something that is jump-able, and not necessarily a button to push. Simple enough.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's bugged. Unoptimized AO doesn't kill your FPS by up to 50%, sometimes more if your rig isn't up to par. I've played games with unoptimized AO and that's just not properly shading the areas it should, not killing my FPS.



Here's a shocker for you:

So is Bloom.

Know what else is a shocker?

There's varying levels of what a shader does. Some require more performance than others. You speak of people not knowing basic knowledge, you seem to forget that different shaders are manipulated through different means.

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Whatever, you call it bugged if you want, doing what it's supposed to do at performance cost is called being unoptimized in my book, but I am done arguing semantics with you.

Bottom line is:
You are arguing against possible underwater content because Ambient Occlusion is inefficient.
You are vilifying shaders because AO is inefficient.
You are probably too ignorant to understand or purposely ignoring the fact that the engine already has tens of shaders running.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Bottom line is:
You are arguing against possible underwater content because Ambient Occlusion is inefficient.

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Bottom line is:

You're drawing your own conclusions and adding words to other's posts, especially when they counter your argument. For example you decided to bring up renders, I mentioned they didn't get even a basic shading technique to not be bug free, you then say my arguement is based on AO's bugginess because you feel it gives your argument more weight.

If you recall, my argument was:

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Mocap isn't the problem. "Swimming" and etc truly is a worthless mechanic unless the game is designed for it, which XIV is not. There's nothing under the water in XIV for example, it's not like FFX where there's a very obvious use for water mechanics even if it was physic raping.

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Therefore plopping in mechanics for no reason not only makes zero sense because they would have no immediate use, Yoshida himself said he won't make mechanics unless he has a proper use for them, i.e Group Crafting.

Other things are more important than jumping asap.

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Originally Posted by Archon_Diabolos

I say make jump only activate when you collide into something that is jump-able, and not necessarily a button to push. Simple enough.

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That may not be a bad idea either.

Water reflections is a basic shader technique. To the best of my knowledge it's bug free.

Also it was you who jumped into my discussion with the lolomgheisagamedeveloper guy, I never said anything against the point you made, which by the way I agree with.

I am hoping for underwater being implemented at some point, perhaps as a feature in an expansion, and yes, once it makes sense gameplay wise.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Bottom line is:

You're drawing your own conclusions and adding words to other's posts, especially when they counter your argument. For example you decided to bring up renders, I mentioned they didn't get even a basic shading technique to not be bug free, you then say my arguement is based on AO's bugginess because you feel it gives your argument more weight.

If you recall, my argument was:



Therefore plopping in mechanics for no reason not only makes zero sense because they would have no immediate use, Yoshida himself said he won't make mechanics unless he has a proper use for them, i.e Group Crafting.

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Originally Posted by stardrifter

Jumping is not really a game breaker... I'm going to assume most played FFXI if your playing FFXIV and prolly for awhile... couldn't jump then why jump now... you can't jump in ANY FF game! go back to WoW or something i like the game the way it is =P well sorta

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no matter what people write, please just stop useing "go back to wow" thats so retarded and has nothing to do with a jump feature... WOW didnt invent the jump feature AND a lot of people didnt even play WOW...
"go back to wow" posts are worse then any troll posts i've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yoshida likes PvP and Jumping yet he himself says it's low priority and basically unneeded currently.

So I assume you're also blaming him for holding the game back? Besides, you're an idiot if you think Jumping will progress this game compared to..oh...say content and land expansion.

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jumping would need so much more resources (which i think they don't have), since the game wasnt designed for it and i bet the landscape is even more boring if you find some "hidden" empty places you just jumped onto.
If the landscape was /will be designed for it, im all for jump though. But atm its not much more then jumping around on a VERY restricted terrain. Swimming would be worse (i love swimming and diving if its implemented right), since you would just swim around in the already artificially looking jelly-water...

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Originally Posted by Vesperia

I hate the battle system too but auto-attack is just another problem, not a solution.

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well i hope the battle system isnt just "autoattack" with the rest almost the same, i really hope its has some interesting new aspects to it that makes it more fun and challenging. If that works good together with the autoattack feature i don't midn it at all but honestly... does anyone know how the new battle system will look in the end? Since they don't have a clue how to treat the "not very beautiful" BR system,... the system might be fully changed and implemented in a few months even....

to me jumping is a very high priority and the dev team is being ignorant of its usefulness. jumping adds travel benefits realism boss or mob mechanics and opens up new ways to design ingame zones. with the implimentation of jump you will see a massive increase in player population just from 1 feature....when people new to FF mmo start this game one of the first things they see is "oh i cant jump this sucks"

Let me summon this guy quote here

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Originally Posted by Dizmo

Looking at how many people want less features rather than more, sigh.

Bizarre FFXI(V) fans demanding the game to lack a standard feature which almost every MMO player expects are the game's worst enemy when it comes to attracting new players.

It seems like a lot of them haven't played any other games other than WoW so can't imagine a jump feature that doesn't involve doing a backflip 6ft in the air, as opposed to the ability to hop down a 3ft ledge.

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they really should put jump in sooner than later it should be a high priority function (i mean how long could it possible take to impliment it)

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Originally Posted by PikachuLink

they really should put jump in sooner than later it should be a high priority function (i mean how long could it possible take to impliment it)

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Doing the animations which are people moving.
implementing the code for button presses.
changing invisible terrain walls.

There are probably more and probably more difficult than we think they are.

yeah i bet it is a bit difficult but imo its a pretty standar and necessary step foward in this games development

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Originally Posted by PikachuLink

yeah i bet it is a bit difficult but imo its a pretty standar and necessary step foward in this games development

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Explain or don't make ridiculous claims please.

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Originally Posted by PikachuLink

to me jumping is a very high priority and the dev team is being ignorant of its usefulness. jumping adds travel benefits realism boss or mob mechanics and opens up new ways to design ingame zones. with the implimentation of jump you will see a massive increase in player population just from 1 feature....when people new to FF mmo start this game one of the first things they see is "oh i cant jump this sucks"

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I Really do not see Jumping as being a independent feature that would bring people back to the game. And has been said before the only jumping that should be possible in combat should be from Dragoon.

My problems with jumping are the huge logistical problems of implementing it and the realism factor (insofar as that can be applied to a fantasy game):

In real life people can't do a standing jump much higher than 0.5 metres, a person wearing 200lbs of metal could barely get both feet off the floor at the same time. You can clear that sized obstacles currently.

For logistical/level design purposes Suppose someone jumps off a tower in Limsa and ends up in the harbour. Does this person a) die? b) be forced to use return or c) somehow scale a sheer cliff to climb back out? What if this person jumps down a cliff where there is no designed path back out. If your argument is that they must redesign all areas with this in mind, the amount of man-hours involved in this is staggering and would set back any other updates for months.

And on a related note for swimming: I really don't want that, in every game i've seen it in apparently all people have no problem treading water in full plate mail, a task that is just physically impossible.

Hope I made enough reasonable points to 'score' against jumping

If they add jump, lets keep it realistic like Aegis was pointing out. Have some manner of encumbrance value that will determine how high and how often you can jump. I don't know if they are keeping the ol stamina bar there but it could be quite handy for allowing you to jump but only a few times thus stopping the dreaded "bunny hopping" many are worried about in it's tracks.

Same could be done for swimming if they decide to implement it, hell I think they should let you drown if you tried to do something crazy like swim to Limsa. For example, if they added PVP content involving ships like they had in the demo video way back perhaps if you got knocked off the boat you could swim back over to it to climb back up. Logical uses for the mechanic that wouldn't ruffle any feathers really.