Game dumbed Down a little to much

Please understand that while casuals, such as myself want goals that can be progressively achieved... that does not mean this theme park style lobby fest.

Casuals even played EQ and enjoyed the epically long quests there... not all "casuals" want dumbed down games. Just some styles of advancement paths available. I don't know what kind of players enjoy a repetitive lobby/instance grind.

^ I agree. That's what I liked about XI's approach to design - if you didn't like or couldn't do 1 event, you could simply do another for comparable drops.

Currently ARR's endgame is very cut and dry with strict limitations on both drops and participation and it makes for a rather dull experience, especially since crafted gear is pretty much worthless. You can make content accessible without having everything revolve around mind-numbing battles that simply boil down to pattern memorization and execution rather than testing a party's ability both to react & think on the spot, as well as employ tactics instead of simply spamming the same abilities over and over.

I'll use the Ouryu fight in CoP as an example. Back in the day the most common tactic was to simply manaburn him with a bunch of black mages. When I beat it we used a very unorthodox setup and we were all super proud for it. I was on my Warrior at the time, and we had a MNK, SMN, WHM RDM and I think a BLU with us as well I honestly can't recall (pretty sure it was a BLU anyway). It's also one of the few times I bothered using that god awful brady games guide as it came with a skillchain chart.

I quickly looked at our available WS and determined we could do a detonation (wind element) skillchain, which would allow our SMN to magic burst Aerial Blast with Garuda. I remember the others being a bit skeptical but they agreed to try it, and we were all taken aback by just how hard it hit him - Ouryu was of course an earth-based Dragon so his chances of resisting it were low and just 1 shot took out like a 1/3 of his HP, it was insane. It just made the victory all the sweeter because by all standards we had a pretty jank setup that probably shouldn't have worked, but it did.

And then there's all the videos of Avesta and Kanican soloing crazy stuff on RDM and BLM (when Kanican soloed that one Salvage run nobody could believe it - same with his Limbus solo run). That was the real beauty of XI's combat system, basic as it was it allowed for some pretty crazy stuff for anyone dedicated enough. PUP & BLU really exemplified this the most because of the insane level of customization on those jobs.


I know ARR is still "fresh" in its current form, but I'm not really seeing the foundation for anything amazing like XI eventually had just yet. I'll reserve final judgment until the 1st expansion, but that's still a fair way off and besides, we've already seen the great stuff YP is capable of in 1.23 - we're just wondering why we aren't seeing more of that instead.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

This game has so much potential and it's being wasted.


I absolutely hate myself for saying this, but... I want Tanaka back.

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Yoshi did a great job with the game, but this game does not and should not be another warcraft clone. While some may not agree with me, FFXIV should be its own stand alone title and stay true to the FF series before hand.

Tanaka's game lacked a lot of content, but I did enjoy playing it back in 1.x. So many things from 1.x were removed that I/many other players miss (1 example would have been the high level monsters you can find around the world).

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Originally Posted by NefGP

I absolutely hate myself for saying this, but... I want Tanaka back.

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The problem is Tanaka and yoshi are both extremes, I dont want either but I want them to work together to create a nice balance, instead being to extreme on either side.

Also less fan service, let this game develop an identity

This game had/has a lot of promise, and was so close to being truly enjoyable (for those who like strategic depth). If they made a few tweaks:

-- Variety of equipment (3 items at same level, but with different stats, so equipment is situational). Rather than pure linear progression.
-- Better materia customization (right now it's extremely trivial. They could borrow from FFVII and make it truly an art in itself).
-- Non-deterministic AI. It's not only boring, but rather silly, that we know the moves boss' will do before they do it. At the very least, make hard mode non-deterministic.
-- Battle Tactics. More advanced tactics (FFXI as an example since many know about it): Skill Chains, Magic Bursts, SATA.

If they added Skill Chains, MB, SATA, FFVII style Materia, better variety of equipment, and random AI in Hard/Extreme mode dungeons/bosses, I would be very happy indeed. And there is nothing stopping them from doing it. The 'casuals' (those who do not want to spend time learning/mastering a game) would enjoy all story progress without the need for advanced tactics/equipment. The 'dedicated' (those who want to learn and master a game, regardless of # of hours they have) would enjoy the need for advanced tactics in hard/extreme mode battles.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

-- Battle Tactics. More advanced tactics (FFXI as an example since many know about it): Skill Chains, Magic Bursts, SATA.

If they added Skill Chains, MB, SATA

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No, please no. I don't want to skill chain -.-;
Those 11 days are over, and I'm glad SC is over. Just imagine trying to save a skill (lowering your overall dps), dodging post heart in Titan EX, and all that for a shiny animation which will be lackluster damage. Heck even ff11 people didn't save tp for SC for a lot of content. Plus with the way our TP works this couldn't happen the way it did then, and if you want it to work differently then you are just asking for another form of LB. Now, if we had a way to make it so each group role in a party had their own special bar to build. That would be cool, then fights could be tuned a bit harder for this extra bonus.

SA is useless because we already have bonus from attacking from behind... called combos.
TA would be bad due to game design considering they would definitely give a new tank job a way to generate threat just as fast as WAR/PLD because otherwise "it would give reason to exclude them from fights." (which happens already ranged/melee - but you know this excuse would be used)


Now, new materia variety sure. I even mentioned before in another post about "melding soul stone" with materia that augments our abilities. "Cheaper medica 2", "Faster Cure 2", "Potent Cure 3" things like that.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

No, please no. I don't want to skill chain -.-;

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I'm using that as an example of a tactic since a lot of people are familiar with it. There are of course other different tactics that can be invented or borrowed from other games. There is of course no need to have that specific one. Just 'something' that makes the game more engaging and that you have to pay attention to others.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

Now, if we had a way to make it so each group role in a party had their own special bar to build. That would be cool, then fights could be tuned a bit harder for this extra bonus.

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Having your own bar would not be really that much extra strategy... it would be: Business as usual, oh, new flashy button, hit it! Something I (and i'm sure some others) would like is far more in-depth battle tactics. Obviously there will be others who don't. And that is the crux of the problem here.

I would say it isn't because the majority of the people in the game haven't beat Coil Turn 5. Either they lack the skill or coordination to play as a group to beat the fight.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

While I'm not new to MMOs, a friend of mine who is playing is.

He is overwhelmed by everything. There's a lot he didn't get; things that are common knowledge to all of us who have played a lot, were completely foreign to him. I had to explain things I learned more than 10 years ago and have become second nature to me.

If Yoshi-P was targeting non-MMO players, I'm not sure how well he succeeded. This game seems to be in an uncomfortable rut. It's more complex than people give it credit for, but it's not quite simple enough that just anyone can pick it up.

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This is a very clear definition of why trying to mix hardcore and casual MMO players is a bad idea, my son tells me a true hardcore MMO aimed at that playerbase would be too niche these days and fail. Somehow I don't think it would, your friend is new and so it makes sense he/she is a little overwhelmed. However veteran MMO players tire quickly of games made for new players.