Just remove healers.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

A) Having a decent DPS kit doesn't mean the overall damage has to be high, no one has complained that healers do too little damage.

B) Rebalancing DPS is something they do all the time anyway, so that can't possibly be an insurmountable challenge. And it's even easier to do on a party level - you just boost enemy health according to 2 party members doing x% more avg damage without even having to touch the jobs themselves.

C) You don't need to lower healing output just because you make room for DPS skills. Lower cooldowns, faster resource build up, etc. are all options.

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It has to do with the design of the game itself and I never said the output would be lowered, I'm saying that if they compensate for reducing the number of healing abilities it pushes the fight design far more towards mitigation. If you look at SWTOR and how they did the classes they all kind of do a lot of the same thing, but have a few role specific traits. FFXIV each job is like deep diving into that specific role so they base the fight design around that aspect.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

If an entire role could be seamlessly removed by giving everyone just two more buttons, without redesigning ANY of the game's content, it is redundant and should either be removed or completely rebuilt.

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This proves you don't do end game fights.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

This proves you don't do end game fights.

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Name five encounters that prove my statement false.
I'm already pretty sure you won't be able to given that you failed to answer the same question I posed on healer job diversity (instead turning it into an entirely fallacious whataboutism on the state of tanks, which is in no way comparable), and you'll again find some kind of nonsensical deflection.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

This proves you don't do end game fights.

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The depressing thing is, he's not wrong.

If DPS could load a basic lost action style healing kit, healers really would be largely pointless in much of Savage and just about everything below outside of mechanics that require 2 healers to resolve correctly (typically healer stacks).

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The depressing thing is, he's not wrong.

If DPS could load a basic lost action style healing kit, healers really would be largely pointless in much of Savage and just about everything below outside of mechanics that require 2 healers to resolve correctly (typically healer stacks).

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From memory, the only normal-mode fights that target healers specifically are Lakshmi, that one Alexander fight with the cages, and technically E8 when the party is split in 2 with a healer on each side. There's also a handful of dungeon bosses like Ilberd, but that's about it.

Literally the main reason healers are still "necessary" is because the duty finder says there HAS to be someone with a green icon in the party, otherwise, I'm fairly certain RDM would be the most popular "healer" in most scenarios. They just need an aoe heal (Vermedica?) or a regen added to their bubble and voila.

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Originally Posted by Martynek

You are not being forced to include Ninjas in your groups to be able to play the game. You are, however, forced to bring a healer.

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Those updoots feeling good?

You are forced to bring a tank. GL getting a DRG to actually tank something that's not the floor. You stated earlier that 8 tanks cleared one Savage fight - it's P1S BTW. Does that mean we need no DDs either? Compare by role, not by Job vs role.

I hate WHM right now. Yeah, I haven't been playing since 2014 or whatever like you so I'm not in the utter depths of despair about Healers like you. I'm new to Savage and I learn. I have my moments of anger, annoyance, sadness and frustration at myself, at the bad netcode of the game, at my Job. I'd rather lose none of that by getting the role deleted. I get you guys hate the Jobs you mained for a long time change for the worse (or in your case, um... spectate Healers? Not sure since you haven't played the role yourself) but this ridiculous sobbing and doomposting will get you mocked at other places. I've seen OF posts get linked and mocked at all over the place. If the average player doesn't take you seriously why do you think a developer of the game will?

Get it together FR.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

From memory, the only normal-mode fights that target healers specifically are Lakshmi, that one Alexander fight with the cages, and technically E8 when the party is split in 2 with a healer on each side. There's also a handful of dungeon bosses like Ilberd, but that's about it.

Literally the main reason healers are still "necessary" is because the duty finder says there HAS to be someone with a green icon in the party, otherwise, I'm fairly certain RDM would be the most popular "healer" in most scenarios. They just need an aoe heal (Vermedica?) or a regen added to their bubble and voila.

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I'm guessing you didn't do P3S at the least yet.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

You stated earlier that 8 tanks cleared one Savage fight - it's P1S BTW. Does that mean we need no DDs either?

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1. I never said anything about 8 tank savage fights. Someone else brought that up.
2. You have 4 options for tanking to cover 2 players. While limited, this is at least somewhat fair. You have one option for healing that both healers are stuck with.
Incidentally I already covered the whole "B-but tanks!" thing, like, twice, please at least skim-read the thread before adding to it.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

I'm guessing you didn't do P3S at the least yet.

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No, and I'll likely never do, but that's neither here nor there. One, or at best, a handful of ex/savage fights needing a healer doesn't justify the role being entirely redundant in the other 95% of the game. I REALLY hate that notion that healers have to be tailored exclusively and specifically for high-end content, yet, ironically, designed so even a literal 6 year old could use them effectively.

Yeah it's cool that you can't clear P3-4S or DSR without healers yet but 1 to 6 people are forced to play these roles for casual content or else the queue will never pop, and I sure don't want to spend the next 30m in Aglaia pressing Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil, so where do we go from here?

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

next 30m in Aglaia pressing Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil Broil, so where do we go from here?

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We remove broil going into the next expansion of Shadowbringers 3: The Musical 7.0, the new stress free rotation is: Biolysis > wait 30s > Biolysis
Feel free to sprinkle in Energy Drain wherever you want, if it still exists at that point too. ;)