Lets have class only abilities and spells

I know a good way they could improve classes and keep the balance of jobs in place.

Add a Class Trait that boosts your stats when your in a group under 4 players. This class trait only would effect players on classes.

Class Trait like Attack+20/Acc+15 if your MRD

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Add a Job trait that boosts your stats when your in a group above 4 players. This Job trait would only effect you when your on a Job & with 5+ players.

Job trait something like Hate+5/Attack+10/Acc+10/Vit+10 if u were WAR

These Class & Job Traits would turn off if you had too many players or too less in your group.

MRD only combo: Fracture Combo- Ability: Deflect (What ever damage last parry Blocked its reflected back to the enemy)

MRD only Ability: Pirates Pride: (Blunt+50%) 2mins.

ARC: Ranger's Eye: All AOE arrow based attacks +5% dmg on every target landed. Caps at 20%
ARC: Wind arrow: Next Arrow attack will use no arrows from your pouch.

Well ill let them decide.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

They should just decide what they want to keep. It's either jobs or classes.
The "class for solo, job for party"-idea is a failure, I don't see anyone using classes at all because jobs give you a bigger advantage even solo.

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Not sure you even play XIV. Plenty of classes give higher advantages than Jobs. Ask any PLD, MRD, THM who actually experience this game every day.

You're right about one thing, the idea is a failure, should just be that a job works in either case. It's supposed to be a heroic embodiment in the FF verse.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not really. I like classes because it prevents stupid things like PLD with a staff, PLD dual wielding, RDM with a staff and so on from happening again. It helps define each name and job assigned to it without going too far out of concept.

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You can still restrict weapons to a job .. Oo

SE did it wrong from the start and made the job system a mess, they should have changed the name of classes to jobs, then restricted some spells (which they did with classes anyway) and then added new skills (which they did with jobs anyway).

The problem is there is no need to have a subsystem behind a class system, when we get AF weapons Yoshi said you will have to have a class weapon equipped first > equip the soul crystal > equip AF weapon.

That's the most convoluted rubbish I've seen in ages and I hope it doesn't work like that in 2.0.

Why can't I just equip a BLM staff and be a Black Mage. ?

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Originally Posted by Denmo

You're basing your entire opinion of "Job = Better at everything" only by how Monk plays?

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And WHM. About the only thing I miss as WHM is Chameleon.

I don't see anything wrong with my point, because I'm merely stating how it looks like from my perspective - from the classes that I play. You state yours. Nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by SionDurant

Not sure you even play XIV.

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Sure I do. We partied at raptors some days ago. And I'm in one of the LS you are in, too. I'm just quiet.

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Plenty of classes give higher advantages than Jobs. Ask any PLD, MRD, THM who actually experience this game every day.

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MRD/THM surely experience the game every day. PLD not so much (maybe GLA), just like MNK and DRG, courtesy of our great community mostly stacking THM/BLM.

I don't see THM needing many cross class skills since they're so squishy. Sure, you can use second wind and cure + SS, but if you draw hate, it won't save you. By the time you finish casting cure/SS, not counting a big chance you get interrupted, you'll lose more HP for it to make a big difference. About the only thing that really saves you is chameleon, but you get that with BLM too, and BLM also gets convert, that potentially gives you a second HP bar...

GLA has an advantage over PLD because you get access to MRD skills, but that's because PLD needs adjustments badly, so you can't really bring that argument.

MRD? Not sure. WARs don't seem to have any problems surviving.

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You're right about one thing, the idea is a failure, should just be that a job works in either case. It's supposed to be a heroic embodiment in the FF verse.

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Well at least we agree that it's a failure.

To everyone making a case for CNJ cross skills, do you keep in mind that CNJ's versions are much more potent than what you get cross class? SS loses about a third (if not half, don't remember) of it's protection and you don't get Cura cross class either.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I don't see anything wrong with my point, because I'm merely stating how it looks like from my perspective - from the classes that I play. You state yours. Nothing wrong with that.

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This, people on here seem to get so offended that other people think differently to them.

Just accept that people have different opinions guys and leave it at that, you don't have to argue this stuff into the ground.

about the only thing i would like to see done as far as this goes is long term change. say you take and add new skills for each class that's suited towards the second job that will be added.

let's say thm for example give 5 dot's that can only be used on thm or once you specialize in the dot job, but cannot be used on the blm job. it's the same the other way around with make certain thm spells that go towards blm only allowed to use on thm/blm, but not the dot job.

this would allow thm to have a little more versatility and basics of both of its jobs, but would not be nearly as good at either job as the advanced versions of spells you get when you go onto the individual job. i've always felt the class should be more of a jack of all trades and master of none. it could do a little of everything and have the basics, but for max effectiveness in party play you would need the job because of it's advanced spells.

edit: i'm not saying just do this for thm only, but just giving an example. it could be done for each class and give them a few abilities that go with the secondary job.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You can still restrict weapons to a job

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No, you can't. Because what'll end up happening is people will whine about their job having only one weapon and then we'll have FFXI all over again.

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The problem is there is no need to have a subsystem behind a class system, when we get AF weapons Yoshi said you will have to have a class weapon equipped first > equip the soul crystal > equip AF weapon.

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How is this different than current AF gear? It works within the systems in place.

I've come up with a few ideas as far as creating some diferent uses for Classes and Jobs.

One of the ideas I came up with involved the revamping of Battle Regimen system.

Creating unique Regimen for classes and Unique ones for Jobs.

The class ones would focus more in it's classic form, debilitation the monsters and weakening them down, and they could be done with basic attacks that are cross-class. Meaning, you could solo Regimen if you had the TP built up for it.

The second structure, between jobs. Would involve the job specific abilities combining Crono-Trigger style to create unique attacks and effects specific the jobs working together (And would help against class/job stacking.)

The first would accent the flexibility of Classes allowing them to create several different chains together between any combination of Classes and bring the monster down. While the second accents the uniqueness of Jobs and the importance of containing multiple different jobs in a fight.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

How is this different than current AF gear? It works within the systems in place.

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Because I don't have to equip a felt robe to equip a healers robe .. hmmm

My point is why do they not make it so that when you try to equip a BLM staff it looks for the blm soul crystal, if it find the player in possession of said item it will automatically equip both.

That being said it doesn't even need to go to this extent, the quest to obtain the BLM staff will require the job anyway so you can't obtain the staff without the job.

Player equips staff .. switch to blm .. simple.

My other point was that if classes were jobs we wouldn't have any of this, because it would use the current system to switch class, THM weapon would becomes BLM weapon.

It's completely bizarre how SE think.

Interestingly if we only have jobs the quests could act as road blocks to the levelling system, similar to Genkai in FF11.

While I like the addition of iconic FF jobs, I feel like the whole class/job system is hacked together. I doesn't have to be that way, but I think the issue lies in faults with the armory system as a whole.

Originally, classes were intended to be skills - no different than the skills in Ultima Online or the weapon/magic skills in FFXI. It seems like the idea was that players would invest time and effort into skills - learning a variety of abilities. These abilities could then be mixed and matched to create your "job" or your "role". I think the original design was so ambiguous (are they skills? are they classes? or both? ) and the underlying logic complex that it obviously needed a revamp. While it functioned, it just didn't work.

Right now, the whole relationship between jobs and classes is just so odd in concept and functionality. They really need to tighten up the system - both conceptually and functionally.

Solution #1 - Jobs are too dependent on Classes. Most jobs should be able to use multiple weapons. For example, Paladin should be able to equip Lances, Swords and Axes.

This would further the Armory systems original intent... allowing players to adjust on the fly to meet the current needs of their party and situation. For example, if two lancers join a raid party (Lancer being both their only level 50 class). One lancer could equip the Paladin job stone while the other could equip the Dragoon job stone. The Lancer/Paladin is now better able to tank as opposed to Lancer and especially Dragoon/Lancer.

This would also allow the developers to add Jobs and Classes independently from each other. So long as a class is compatible with an already existing job, no additional job is required. And vice verse, the developers can add an additional job without needing to design a class to go with it. For example, the Thief job can be added as it could conceptually be compatible with Gladiator, Pugilist and Archer classes. The Musketeer class can be added assuming it could job at least Bard.

Solution #2 - Get rid of classes all together and keep jobs. Players would change jobs as they do now - via job stones. The armory system can still exist in some fashion. Equipping a different weapon will enhance a job's role in some way. For example, if a Paladin needed extra dps - he would equip a lance as opposed to a sword/shield. If he wanted some aoe capability, he would equip an axe. For mages, the various wands/scepters/staves/rods would innately impact various aspects of a spell. For example, using a wand may increases range and overall accuracy whereas a staff increases the accuracy and potency of enfeebling effects. Or maybe the weapon affects the combo action?

Once again, the developers would be free to add weapons and jobs independently from each other.