Is FFXIV hinting Berserker, Necromancer, and Chemist next expansion?

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This game's Warrior is basically Berserker, Necromancer would not make sense at all in this game's lore (which kinda goes out of its way to say necromancy is a Bad Thing), and we already have Alchemist as a crafter.

So no, I wouldn't say it's hinting at any of them.

Have you even done any of the Warrior job quests? There's far more of a "berserker" quality to the class than simply having an ability called Berserk.

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I have not started warrior yet I thought about it but it looks more like a heavy armor 2hand warrior. Than a primal creature with brute berserking strength with little armor.

Next, you all know that jobs and classes are not good or villian in nature right?

you can have heroic lightfull necromancers and dark nature classes but working on the side of the light. Also do note in hero dungeon the necromancer and theif are warriors of light in there realms.. and they think your evil

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Dark Knight questline spoilers reply:

So might be interpretation of the quest, but the Warrior of Light never actually raises Fray from the dead to train him. The Temple Knights accuse him of talking to a corpse in the 30-50 quests, implying more that the warrior of light kind of went a little crazy and as carrying around Fray's dead body and thinking it was training him/her. Or at least that's how I always understood what was going on in the quests.

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That was the product of the English localization significantly rewriting the text in the level 50 quest. I really don't get the reason why, save for perhaps that the translator was a big fan of Fight Club.

https://haillenarte.tumblr.com/post/...quests-part-ii

It is actually pretty crazy how different the Japanese text is to the English text. But yes, the corpse-possession is explicit in the Japanese text, whereas the English text tries very hard to push the idea that Fray isn't actually real and the WoL is having a psychotic breakdown. From what I recall, the English text mostly stops pushing that angle after this. Nobody pretends "Myste" doesn't exist, and Sidurgu reacts to "Fray" in the level 70 quest just fine.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

They could definitely do another darker themed job though, just let the poor dead rest! ;)

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

That was the product of the English localization significantly rewriting the text in the level 50 quest. I really don't get the reason why, save for perhaps that the translator was a big fan of Fight Club.

https://haillenarte.tumblr.com/post/...quests-part-ii

It is actually pretty crazy how different the Japanese text is to the English text. But yes, the corpse-possession is explicit in the Japanese text, whereas the English text tries very hard to push the idea that Fray isn't actually real and the WoL is having a psychotic breakdown. From what I recall, the English text mostly stops pushing that angle after this. Nobody pretends "Myste" doesn't exist, and Sidurgu reacts to "Fray" in the level 70 quest just fine.

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That's so interesting!

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Originally Posted by Yencat

They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

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You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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Originally Posted by Yencat

They could "whitewash" it a bit, but we got BLU in the way it is because they wanted to stay 'true to the essence of the job' so it seems unlikely they'd steer so far what most people know a Necromancer to be or even the ones we've encountered in the game. I think what makes people buckle at the idea is that necromancy generally involves unwilling participants being turned/raised as mindless thralls and then being discarded when they've served their purpose, which could really only work well if our character wasn't such a goody two-shoes.

So while they could clean up the image and theme a bit, at that point just name it something else I feel like?

They could definitely do another darker themed job though, just let the poor dead rest! ;)

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Whitewashing would certainly be the easiest lol (it's why I didn't bring up zombies in my dark healer thread XD). Technically necromancers don't have to raise the dead to be one, certain games and history have this concept (the general definition has nothing to do with raising them), but obviously one of the more popular is skeleton army type stuff. But your response exactly what I'm trying to encourage, "well that'd be really hard... but like.. we could do this instead, has like 80% spirit of necromancer.." lol. Rather than NIEN NIEN NIEN, it's impossible. XD

Also to be clear not everyone going "eeh...." is going for the shutdown I'm arguing against (since some people might be like "bro I was just saying it's unlikely, jesus lol"), being hesitant or not for something is different than just flat out saying it's impossible like it's a waste of breath and screen space to wish for.

Also like Thief to Rogue they can make something's nature without it's name, so if someone wants Necromancer they might get much of what they wanted even if the name wasn't the same. So again why I was trying to prevent the straight bulldozing :p.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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Hype idea. If they do soul magic they might not require the dead either, could theoretically have like Goku Spirit bomb where you ask for the energy of your friends. Politely of course... "I swear if you don't lend your strength Urianger I will burn your books and never listen to another poem". He'll totally help out! :3

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Originally Posted by wereotter

You bringing it up this way makes me think of the story of another game.... during the Eldritch Moon story in Magic the Gathering, the remaining Cathars invoke benevolent spirits to help protect them against the eldritch horrors that were infesting their world. So I could see a more benevolent type of necromancer being a type of pet job that summons the spirts of the departed to help them fight. Though at that point, the job would be fairly fair removed from a classic necromancer and might not even be considered the same job by the players.

And unless they think it's too spoilery, they could have characters like Hauchrafant, Ysale, and Papalymo being warriors of light we could invoke to perform greater feats

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I love that idea! It really makes all the difference whether you're petitioning benevolent spirits for aid vs. forcefully raising shambling, rotting corpses. There's a lot more dignity for the dead to it which is much more fitting for the WoL and the story.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also to be clear not everyone going "eeh...." is going for the shutdown I'm arguing against (since some people might be like "bro I was just saying it's unlikely, jesus lol"), being hesitant or not for something is different than just flat out saying it's impossible like it's a waste of breath and screen space to wish for.

Also like Thief to Rogue they can make something's nature without it's name, so if someone wants Necromancer they might get much of what they wanted even if the name wasn't the same. So again why I was trying to prevent the straight bulldozing :p.

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People could speculate about Psychic from X for example because AFAIK there's nothing stopping it from existing but we have several NPCs and quests that say Necromancy=bad. It sort of comes across as people wanting Necro because it's cool while ignoring all evidence the game gives in universe that you shouldn't touch it. Like it would be interesting and I'd love to have more Egis on SMN, they've said we've hit our cap of 3 so it's reasonable to say we won't or shouldn't expect any more in the future. Likewise we've faced numerous bosses that have dabbled with the dead (I'm using physical bodies for the sake of argument) that have lost themselves in the process, and from what we've seen desecration of the dead is nearly universally accepted as culturally taboo, so it's again reasonable to say that a Necromancer isn't likely at all to be a playable Job. It's shown to be far too evil of a concept in Eorzea, even if you set aside Yoshida's Thief comment.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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Even if she was a WoL she referred to herself as tainted and has gone insane which is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to the price to pay for Necromancy and the same thing happened to Edda and Nybeth. What she should tell you is we won't be any different if we did it too. And if they did add it and say that it corrupted everyone else, but not us because we're special then that easily pushes us into Mary Sue/Gary Stu territory. The WoL needs to have some limits of what they can do, and the ethics of tampering with the dead should stay one of them.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

I wonder if it's at all worth pointing out the Necromancer in Hero's Gauntlet is a summoned hero from another plane, implying it's possible to be a heroic Necromancer...

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Maybe, in her world, bringing people back from the dead to do your bidding, then spontaneously blowing them up, is considered heroic.

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Originally Posted by AncientWillow

I have not started warrior yet I thought about it but it looks more like a heavy armor 2hand warrior. Than a primal creature with brute berserking strength with little armor.

Next, you all know that jobs and classes are not good or villian in nature right?

you can have heroic lightfull necromancers and dark nature classes but working on the side of the light. Also do note in hero dungeon the necromancer and theif are warriors of light in there realms.. and they think your evil

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Warrior emphasizes controlling one's "inner beast", or essentially their primal bloodlust/rage. The job is inherently a bit risky as the weak-willed risk becoming consumed by their inner beast and becoming mindlessly aggressive to everything around them, while others willfully choose to let it dominate them which results a somewhat more coherent albeit still insane individual not unlike the berserker we see in the Hero's Gauntlet.

Necromancy is considered a huge taboo as the "true" form of it that lacks any connection to voidsent is likened to a perverted form of white magic (Which is already taboo) and I seriously doubt anyone would be on board with even the WoL getting involved with it. The spectral necromancer in the Hero's Gauntlet calling herself "tainted" kind of implies that's still the case even where she hails from.

The Hero's Gauntlet bosses are meant to be representations of Locke (Thief), Lenna (Necromancer), and Guy (Berserker). I don't believe they were meant to be hints to future jobs. It's supposedly been mentioned that there is a hint in the 5.3 MSQ of an upcoming job, but I think those three were not only there to be references, but also to be a bit of red herrings.

While it's entirely possible that the Yoshida could change his mind at any point, he's stated before that Thief won't happen due to them not wanting the WoL to be associated with any job that's objectively immoral, which stealing is. Dark Knight shows that dark themed things in general aren't off the table, but necromancy was painted with a strongly negative light in PotD (then again, the lore also paints summoners and BLM in the same boat, so who knows).

Apothecary seems to be the most likely candidate as we spend the first few quests surrounding an NPC who wants to be an Apothecary Warrior of Light, and those quests have literally nothing to do with the plot other than wag that in our face. Apothecary seems like a very strong contender for the healer slot.

Regarding the Ink Mage, I personally want to believe that was a more subtle hint the new DPS being Pictomancer (the thing that Relm Arrowny is in FF6) which I think would be a really nice option for a different Caster DPS. We just received our 3rd physical ranged in Dancer, and while we could receive our 4th right after, there's at least a bit of a reason to believe they'll avoid doing it back-to-back so players who aren't fond of physical ranged have a chance at something new. Casters technically have 4 options, but really that number is more like 3.2. Blue Mage isnt' even half a job if we're being honest. Counting it at all is being generous. My guess is Caster 4 will be 6.0 and Physical Ranged 4 will be 7.0.