[Spoilers, kind of] Characters who are completely different between JP/ENG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I remember reading the direct translation from Japanese to English of those scenes and comparing it against the English transcript from the NA version. Everyone I have shown it to agrees that the direct translation is clearer and that the English version is very difficult to understand by comparison with the direct translation. Most think that the NA English version is actually misleading and makes the player think that what's going on is the opposite to what is really happening. The French and German dialog is (if I remember correctly) created from a direct Japanese to English translation and avoids the flavor text added to the NA localization, and is thus much clearer.

---

Whereas I find the provided examples upthread of "direct" translation to be dry, lifeless, and sometimes even boring, so I'm happy with the direction they currently take in localization.

The direct translation is often very clinical and leaves minimal room for mystery or nuances. FFXII is my favourite of the main titles for many reasons but one of the most prominent is that the characters speak in a manner that fits a fantasy setting. Many MMO's simply lean on a rather dull approach where even the wisest and ancient of elves speak in modern day slang. FFXIV does something different and it does not suffer in the slightest for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The direct translation is often very clinical and leaves minimal room for mystery or nuances. FFXII is my favourite of the main titles for many reasons but one of the most prominent is that the characters speak in a manner that fits a fantasy setting. Many MMO's simply lean on a rather dull approach where even the wisest and ancient of elves speak in modern day slang. FFXIV does something different and it does not suffer in the slightest for it.

---

I agree. Between the colloquialisms and accents, FFXIV's language manages to feel like a fantasy world without falling back on generic, fantasy, Tolkien-esque English or bashing thees and thous over our head at every chance and nothing more.

There is actual effort put into Eorzea's version of English, and with the lone exception of the mind-bendingly old Midgardsomr and verbose to the point of it being running-gag Urianger, I've never once had a hiccup in understanding what is being said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

But it seems that thanks to being more vague with his motive, that this created some believe that he might not be nice to us.

---

To be fair, I don't think he really liked us until near the end of the HW story (also, he did attack us on sight).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino

This is a massive overstatement, and nothing they have ever said would point to the English localization team having even remotely an equal part...

---

Koji is literally both the English localization lead and the co-lead world and lore developer. I think that's nearly as equal as you can have. As for saying that nothing they've said indicates it, here's a quote from a dualshockers article from before arr even released

Quote:

---

One of the things that they do is instead of making things solely Japanese and then ask us to translate those, they’ll talk with the localization team and collaborate with us to get more western ideas in the game itself. This comes down to things like monster names, monster attacks, place names, item names… these are all conceived by myself and the other members of the English team and we work directly with the world lore planners to come up with these, and then help them translate them back into Japanese.

We make sure that there are stories connected with these as well, so it’s not just random names. There’s a reason why something is called an “Angry Gobbue” — the Gobbue’s angry for a reason. NPCs as well are actually a collaboration between all of the localization team members. For example, the hyur and miqo’te names for NPCs are all done by the English team, the Elzen names are all conceived by the French team, the Lalafell names come from the Japanese team, and the Roegadyn names are a joint effort between the German and English teams and so, again, you have all these aspects of the game that are being created by not just the Japanese side, but also by the localization side as well.

And then, again, a lot of the quests, when we do our translations, we will some times add things — Japanese can be a very vague language — a lot of important information is either cut completely or it’s implied heavily. It can be kind of confusing for western players and readers, so we’ll go in and tweak things to make it a little easier to understand and a little bit clearer. A lot of times the Japanese team will then go back and look at the English translations or the French translations and get ideas on how they can change the Japanese text in turn.

So a lot of stuff that we’ve done actually influenced the Japanese side as well. It’s going back and forth and there’s a lot of communication between us and the team. One of the greatest benefits of working on this project is being able to sit right next to the development team, so any time we have a question or any time they have a question, you just really stand up and walk for five seconds, and right there we’re able to have open communication and work together. I think it really makes the game that much better.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The direct translation is often very clinical and leaves minimal room for mystery or nuances.

---

Well it would be nice to be able to choose which one you want because I at least would find it quite good to get the direct meaning of things so one could discuss it without misunderstandings. Also imo one can still convey the same meaning with fantasy language but instead they make it more vague too.

Also lets not forget that its not always boring. Haurchefant was way more direct and "weird" in the Japanese version yet the NA translation changed him quite a lot. One could argue that they got a duller version of him thanks to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alleo

Well it would be nice to be able to choose which one you want.

---

I dunno how much the staff's salary is but that sounds very expensive for just a small percent of the playerbase that isn't keeping subs going.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Emstidor

Whereas I find the provided examples upthread of "direct" translation to be dry, lifeless, and sometimes even boring, so I'm happy with the direction they currently take in localization.

---

Are they the direct translations used by SE, or the direct translations provided by Google or some anonymous player who claims to speak Japanese? A decent direct translation retains the meaning and mood of the original dialog without pandering to the localization niceties of recreating idioms and other colorful expressions in the target culture and language. I don't find translations to be dry or lifeless, just occasionally there will be a reference or cultural trope that I don't quite get.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsukino

This is a massive overstatement, and nothing they have ever said would point to the English localization team having even remotely an equal part in crafting the story of the game. Koji posted one thing talking about how they have more involvement than most localization teams, being called on to do things like create the dragons' language and most of the player titles that get used across versions, and for some reason a bunch of people took that and ran with it. For everything they help contribute there are 10 other examples of things they've had to double back on and change because they overdid localizing them.

The Japanese version is the original, they write it first, and then the localization teams, including the English one, localize it for their audiences.

---

The English localization team does have input into the lore, but you are correct that the Japanese version is the primary version. If I remember correctly (and it's been a while since I dug up all of the information on this), the Japanese script is translated into English preserving the original intent and mood of the dialogue, along with all the Japanese idiom and cultural references. That original translation is where the localization team gets a chance to provide feed back into the Japanese version. When the final script is completed, the translation becomes the 'master version' of the script. That master is then used to create the foreign language versions (French, German, etc...) of the game script, and the full localization in English is also created.

This is where the Localization team can take some liberties with the original as they transfer idiom and cultural references into something relevant to English players. It's also where Dragon speak went from the more direct to the obtuse and flowery. It's also where we must needs interpret the intent of the script; mayhap the characters are a little chagrined by their odd phrasing at this point - or in other words this is where all the ridiculous "olde English" crap that people love to make fun of, is thrown into the mix.

I feel that too much latitude is given and taken by the localization team at this stage. A good translation preserves the original content and maintains the emotion of the original. A localization tries to make the script feel like it was created in the local language, including cultural reference and idiom. An overdone localization extends that further applying an entirely new cultural filter to add flavor or character to the script taking it 3 steps beyond the original, two steps past the translation and a step beyond a straight localization. I prefer a good translation to a localization. I prefer a good localization to one that attempts to get creative with things.

With as much work, time, effort and creativity as Koji Fox and his team put into the game I will give them major Kudos, but at the same time I will continue to beg them to steer clear of the creative localization and stick more closely to the original script. Otherwise we are not all playing the same game. All players in FFXIV should have the same understanding of the events and dialog as it unfolds. That hasn't always been the case. If the game were a solo game then the creative localization would be very much more appreciated because it doesn't matter if there are a few differences here an there, common experience and understanding is not needed.

But in an MMORPG we need a common experience; all players should be experiencing the same game, plot and dialog. That means less creativity in localizing the game. To be honest I would prefer a good translation over localization. To me a good translation works by translating the meaning and intent of the words, not simply by doing a literal translation, and not by changing things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMax1087

Koji is literally both the English localization lead and the co-lead world and lore developer. I think that's nearly as equal as you can have. As for saying that nothing they've said indicates it, here's a quote from a dualshockers article from before arr even released

---

Since then they've come back and admitted that they do not have a lot of input and future prospects told to them and have had to change many things (like monster names which has occurred many many times). Koji seems like a nice person, but he seems to be a bit of a fanboy of the game and what he says definitely reflects this so I kind of take what he says through a reality filter lol. He wasn't lying but it could be taken as more than it really was. I think also is during that time (in between 1.0 and 2.0) the team actually started taking input from the western side of the team when Yoshida came along, so to them it was like being a part of the process and is probably why it came off stronger than it really was. Also a part is probably they come up with scenarios and simply don't tell the west people as well lol. I don't really know, but with Koji sometimes I take the enthusiasm down a notch lol. He's like the opposite of Yoshida's "look forwad to it" lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

But in an MMORPG we need a common experience; all players should be experiencing the same game, plot and dialog. That means less creativity in localizing the game. To be honest I would prefer a good translation over localization. To me a good translation works by translating the meaning and intent of the words, not simply by doing a literal translation, and not by changing things.

---

And we technically are. Haurchefant is pretty much the only time I believe the localisation team has admitted they made a mistake (as his personality is different between JP and EN, FR, DE) and apologised. Ever since, they now work more closely with the scenario and cutscene teams, which implies that they're given the okay with what they do.

Midgardsormr was also explained.