ARC should not be a Bard

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Originally Posted by Arcell

You can't use the old skill list to make any arguments anymore. That was Tanaka's vision for Archer, the old vision. Yoshida's taking this game in a different direction. Honestly from the looks of it Archer won't lose anything when using Bard. In fact some of Bards combos link directly from Archer. So essentially you're Archer + party buffs. Nothing here suggests a loss in damage potential. You still pew pew at far away things.

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Originally Posted by Onji_T

If I might refer you to the new abilities listed for 1.2. They are more relevant considering those are what we'll have by the time brd comes into play.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...764#post449764

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You talking about new abilities but are you sure you read them well?
Even in the new list ARC abilities are dps oriented... <.< enhanced atk damage and ways to lower enmity (since, again, it's meant to be high dps class...)

Of course nothing suggest loss in damage pontential... problem here is it doesnt get any enhancement... so it's halfway dps useless crap + buffer. Surely it will find it's role in party and I even think it could turn out to be OP before further balancing but hey they gave us a job dps oriented (see the old abilities) and after 1 year they say us: "thanks for playing 50 levels of ARC but you're job won't be a full dps anytime soon :D"

What I mean is: they gave us a dps "old" class (strong or not it was a dps only class), they got people playing it (surely people didnt chose to play arc during this past year because they knew they would become brds), now instead of balancing it they changed it's role and all the people wishing to play a full ranged dps don't have any alternatives, they are simply f-worded XD

If you need to find a reason to justify this choice I can help you with that because you can find how many you want to. But if we are talking about a valid reason to justify it for people who: chose arc because it looked a dps ranged class from day 1, put efforts in it because it's their fav calss in rpg, got it to lvl 50 and now not only the related job is not a dps ranged one but also there's no ranged dps job at all... I challenge you to find one.

They want to give us brd from arc? Fine but at least give an alternative for those players who love full ranged dps role.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

By all means, go play those "Other MMOs" and don't bring conflict of interest to FFXIV. SE does their own thing and if they seem to borrow functions and systems from other games, look down the line of SE products first, from the first Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy to Crono Trigger and Parasite Eve etc. SE doesn't borrow or steal ideas because that would be infringement, duuuh!

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I do play those other MMOs, Thanks. Its not a conflict of interest to point out that its fairly standard in the genre for bards to be archers. Its just as or more relavent then all of the games that are not FF games that you mention. You sure are being a hipocrit to say not to mention other MMOs, just to go on and mention several games that are not even in the same genre as FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Lionheart

You talking about new abilities but are you sure you read them well?
Even in the new list ARC abilities are dps oriented... <.< enhanced atk damage and ways to lower enmity (since, again, it's meant to be high dps class...)

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So what. You just accuratly described THM and LNC as well. That said, you go on to make more assumptions. It has been hinted by the devs that ARC is meant to be a DD but not neccissarily a "High DPS" DD as you claim. Based on the fact that they felt high damage at safer distance = Lack of balance. That is the reason they mentioned having nerfed ARC the last time the did so.

At this point I can list 3+ abilities from the list of new upcomming abilities that would read as if it is meant to make the class a high DPS when looking at each abilities individual description. That doesn't make it wise to assume that will make each a "High DPS" DD class.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I do play those other MMOs, Thanks. Its not a conflict of interest to point out that its fairly standard in the genre for bards to be archers. Its just as or more relavent then all of the games that are not FF games that you mention. You sure are being a hipocrit to say not to mention other MMOs, just to go on and mention several games that are not even in the same genre as FFXIV.

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As long as we play the same game, there's no need to start disputes. Everything is opinion based.

You want to start name calling, you can leave it with your "other MMO forums".

When I mention games produced by SE in appose to the non-related MMOs your basing your argument (with off-topic comparisons not associated with SE or Final Fantasy...) you must be missing the context of my statement over dosing with too much exposure to gamma from your monitor 24/7.

One point I want to make on bard topic, it could work in the back row but it shouldn't be a associated with Archer or ranger etc. Just saying... not any of the two has to do with one another.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

So what. You just accuratly described THM and LNC as well. That said, you go on to make more assumptions. It has been hinted by the devs that ARC is meant to be a DD but not neccissarily a "High DPS" DD as you claim. Based on the fact that they felt high damage at safer distance = Lack of balance. That is the reason they mentioned having nerfed ARC the last time the did so.

At this point I can list 3+ abilities from the list of new upcomming abilities that would read as if it is meant to make the class a high DPS when looking at each abilities individual description. That doesn't make it wise to assume that will make each a "High DPS" DD class.

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Can anyone translate what he just said? o.O

This is so far beyond stupid words do not exist for it. I have officially lost most of my respect for the whole team... why the heck would I want to pay for something where they cant even get a simple RA DD remotely correct.

Every single patch and update is designed to screw over and ruin ARC, which was, my paws down favorite class. Now it's a BRD... really have all the devs gone retarded? What idiot thinks heavy DD wants to be a singer? Guess they figured instead of fix their screw up on ARC they'd covere it up and just make them sing about when they used to be a good class, and used to do damage.

Starwars is looking better every single word that gets posted in updates these days.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

You can't use the old skill list to make any arguments anymore. That was Tanaka's vision for Archer, the old vision. Yoshida's taking this game in a different direction. Honestly from the looks of it Archer won't lose anything when using Bard. In fact some of Bards combos link directly from Archer. So essentially you're Archer + party buffs. Nothing here suggests a loss in damage potential. You still pew pew at far away things.

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idk if you ever played a brd in xi, but as I remember it the buffs generally didn't last very long, and it was magnified by the fact that you were expected to provide full buffs for both the front line, and the back. Between the short song duration, the long casting time, and the constant moving between the front and rear lines, you had no time to ever use that dagger. In all likelyhood, barcher will be doing nothing but buffing, to the detriment of everything else; Since our damage curve is already among the worst in game atm, it'll barely be above nonexsistant when you add continuous buffing to the equation.

Little wonder there's a fierce pro-DD archer camp.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

I do play those other MMOs, Thanks. Its not a conflict of interest to point out that its fairly standard in the genre for bards to be archers. Its just as or more relavent then all of the games that are not FF games that you mention. You sure are being a hipocrit to say not to mention other MMOs, just to go on and mention several games that are not even in the same genre as FFXIV.

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It's also not unusual for archers to be associated with rangers, which is the job arc should have been in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

And for the record, ARC wasn't even a strong DD at the beginning of the game. It was only strong just before Darkhold was released until about 1.18. That was a balancing issue from the start. ARC/BRD is still going to be a spike damage job if you take the time to read the new class and job descriptions:

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I know I'm late but this is completely false pre 1.19 archer was the most powerful DD in the game period. Fully buffed 3 arrow light shot on the top of a BR stack would easily do 1.3k per arrow. The job was pure DD no buts about it, of course the problem was that pre 1.19 LNC/MRD did terrible damage. Now 1.19 MRD is best damn DD in game with high damage output, high HP, high defense, and etc. Archer is just pure shit to the point that 99% of archers dropped the job on Figaro.

I really hope that 1.20 brings all the jobs back into balance because right now its pretty messed up with OP MRD/LNC.

My opinion on this is that Brd is going to do the same damage as archer in 1.19 which we all know is terrible. I just don't see the job getting melee stats to do good solid DPS/Spike damage. The other factor depends on how long the buffs last. If it takes the FFXI path and the songs last a good minute or so then you won't have to do shoot anything. I want to try to be optimistic but this is SE we are talking about and they always seem to find a way to screw it up.

Well, they did say that Archers will be capable of burst of damage, which hopefully if designed right would mean that when Bard comes, the buffing will take place when your burst cooldowns are down. So to be effective Barchers, we'll be doing buffs, and our DPS will be coming in the form of burst in between the buffs.

If the burst damage is significant enough, we may not be the top DD, but keep up with the pack, or at least contribute. (As of now, Archer dps is pathetic.)

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Originally Posted by Imagene

Well, they did say that Archers will be capable of burst of damage, which hopefully if designed right would mean that when Bard comes, the buffing will take place when your burst cooldowns are down. So to be effective Barchers, we'll be doing buffs, and our DPS will be coming in the form of burst in between the buffs.

If the burst damage is significant enough, we may not be the top DD, but keep up with the pack, or at least contribute. (As of now, Archer dps is pathetic.)

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= last wheel of the cart among dps jobs. My life's dream u_u'