Give Tanks Tank Stance at Level 15

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Originally Posted by Mattelot

As someone who works in business and has overseen training, it's human nature. We try to accommodate to the simplest person. Other MMO games I have played, people love to say "do research." Statements like that are too vague. People are playing a game. They want to pick up a controller (or keyboard/mouse) and "play." Many do not want to feel like they have to be a scholar (no pun intended... yeah... kinda) in order to play a video game.

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Yes, "do research" can be the wrong thing to say. The more correct response in those cases is "play the game". Spend some time doing your class quests and a couple of dungeons and you'll figure things out pretty quick.

You want to hold threat better as a low level GLA? Use Flash! The Class Quests tell this to you, but god forbid someone should need basic reading ability to play a game.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Giving them enmity bonuses early will make things too easy and not teach them to first jungle enmity, prioritize dps and watch the enmity meters.

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Wait wait wait...DPS are the ones that need to be juggling enmity here so they don't steal hate, not tanks. A tank's job is to always have all the enmity, no juggling involved. Saying the tank needs to be the one watching the enmity bars, while they need to (so they know when they lost something) is ridiculous, because the DPS should be watching to make sure they aren't stealing hate.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

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Maybe I was not clear, I am not concerned about a new class, but a new job that stems off from the MRD or GLD class.

If the tank stance is given to MRD or GLD and a new class, such as Samurai is added, whose PRIMARY job would likely be either MRD or GLD, they would by default get the tank stance. Much like WAR gets all the skills from MRD, and PLD gets all the skills from GLD.

This would be fine if EVERY job added that stemmed directly from MRD and PLD was intended to be a tank, but I would think they would want to branch out a bit and give players who enjoy those two classes more options than just Tank.

I guess they already added a way around this though with Dark Knights, as they are their own job with their own set of abilities that do not stem from a class. If they just followed this trend they could add anything they want without fear of balancing primary class skills.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Wait wait wait...DPS are the ones that need to be juggling enmity here so they don't steal hate, not tanks. A tank's job is to always have all the enmity, no juggling involved. Saying the tank needs to be the one watching the enmity bars, while they need to (so they know when they lost something) is ridiculous, because the DPS should be watching to make sure they aren't stealing hate.

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This game is set up in a way so that no one has to juggle enmity after the early levels. So long as the tank and the DPS are doing their optimized rotations, you don't have to watch your enmity as a DPS. This isn't a nuanced game where you have to worry about personal enmity like in FFXI. As for AoE, the tank can either keep the mobs off of a SMN or not, but that's on him.

As for the lower leveled stuff, Shield Oath feels like the big offender for not getting earlier. Doable without, but that level range is certainly easier on WAR.

Anyone who is against something like this (maybe not exactly this, but something to help lower leveled tanks) clearly hasn't played a brand new, low level tank character in a bit.

My brother, who has all jobs to 60 on his main and is a more than serviceable tank, started a gld alt out of boredom. Routinely he'd tell me that, even though he'd have the best gear for his level (dungeon drop rng not included) and he knew what to do, there'd be situations against level-synced dps where he had no chance at all of keeping aggro. I don't necessarily know if we need to give them their tank stance at 15 (I think it should be 30 for all of them), but something to help them seems like it would be nice. The last thing I want right now is more sprouts picking up tanks and putting them down because they felt like they were stressed and unable to tank properly.

You guys need to spend some time under the waterfall with Curious George.

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Originally Posted by Kindread

Maybe I was not clear, I am not concerned about a new class, but a new job that stems off from the MRD or GLD class.

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And what they were saying is SE doesn't intend to do any more of that. New jobs will follow Dark Knight, Astrologian, and Machinist, without a base class.

SE has needed to fix the low level tanking experience forever. It sucks. New tanks start out overwhelmed, unable to hold aggro, and get discouraged.

Tank stance should be available for the first group dungeon, or at the least tanks should get a "newbie buff" that gives them tank buff until they reach level 30.

The first job skill for all tanks should be tank stance.

No idea how people can argue against this. It would be like if healers don't get a heal until level 30 or dps can only autoattack until level 30; the player doesn't have the tools for their role.

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

SE has needed to fix the low level tanking experience forever. It sucks. New tanks start out overwhelmed, unable to hold aggro, and get discouraged.

Tank stance should be available for the first group dungeon, or at the least tanks should get a "newbie buff" that gives them tank buff until they reach level 30.

The first job skill for all tanks should be tank stance.

No idea how people can argue against this. It would be like if healers don't get a heal until level 30 or dps can only autoattack until level 30; the player doesn't have the tools for their role.

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leeches would like to have a word with you although i guess giving selene an aoe esuna was sort of a way they addressed the issue

This reminds me of the WoW debate and BLIZZ gave each tank an insane THREAT buff*. Tanking at low levels is a challenge for GLAD, but why not accept the challenge? Why stop at low level tanking? Why not give healers a healing stance buff up to 50? Melee dps can get a buff for standing behind the mob and ignore mechanics up to 50 too.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/articles...cern-for-tanks