EC explains how the current progression system is flawed

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Originally Posted by SinisterJointss

Name one MMO out there that doesn't. Hell name one GAME that doesn't create addictive behavior.

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I hope this is your alt character, I have no idea how you can say you are still enjoying the content when you basically have done nothing from the expansion, you can't really talk about having fun with the current progression of the game when you haven't even reached the progression part of it, or what's being criticized in the video.

And that's the thing, this is basically the first MMO's ive played that it's "Addictive behavior" diminishes, as at the point the majority of players are at this moment is basically just log in a once each day per week for the lazy for capping esoteric, or once each reset to cap for the week, or just wait for raids, the content in this game has absolutely nothing of addictive in the longevity department. And the only addictive part of it that it used to have was the crafting and even that has been walled, effectively loosing my interest in it. Why haven't I left yet? because this is basically currently a glorified chatbox for me to talk with people of other cultures.

I'd say Warlords of Draenor is infinitely more of a Skinner Box than FFXIV. There is loot-related RNG here but with things like esoterics if you put in time you will, you WILL get your reward. That's not as true in Warlords, or the rewards you get are worse than the RNG-riddled ones. Not to mention everything about WoD is built on operant conditioning as a method of player retention. I don't see that here. I don't feel compelled to log in four hours each day in FFXIV but I do, at times, still WANT to. I think that means something.

The only thing we could take from this video is that end game could use more horizontal progression and that's something I've been seeing people say since I started playing. And I agree, it could use it. More ways for us to customize our own builds (though a cookie cutter one will almost always soar, unless we went full on Elder Scrolls Online) would be nice, as would boss fights having less to do with perfect execution of a mechanical rotation and more to do with group ability to react to unpredictable attack patterns. (I don't want this game to be WoW but WoW's best feature is and always has been its raids). ESO's exploration would be cool, too, for maps where we cannot fly.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

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Would you say that you're satisfied with the current amount of endgame content at this point then? That being Alex NM and savage plus Bismarck (which few ppl do more than once) and Ravana EX. Because I'm not, and I guess I made this thread to call out SE on how very tiny the end-game content actually is in relation to how long they want to string it out.

To single out Alex NM, it's content that you can experience all of in less than 2 hours with a competent group. They've gated it in such a way that if you want to get the most out of it, you're going to have to keep running it over the next ~month and a half. The ratio of time it takes to do content, vs. time SE wants it to be relevant is too big, that's my problem

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Originally Posted by Omskahn

Would you say that you're satisfied with the current amount of endgame content at this point then? That being Alex NM and savage plus Bismarck (which few ppl do more than once) and Ravana EX. Because I'm not, and I guess I made this thread to call out SE on how very tiny the end-game content actually is in relation to how long they want to string it out.

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I just said at the end of my post that the game could have more horizontal progression, world exploration, and dynamic raiding. I am still having fun here, much more so than I was in WoW when I left WoW but that doesn't make me magically blind to its faults. I know the 24 man is coming out soon, that will add to our end game as will the expansion on the story. FFXIV seems to churn out new content regularly enough, in my limited experience (then again that's as someone coming from wow where content cycles are a year and a half not a few months).

The one thing that grinds my gears is I wish there were more ways to get Esoterics, and I wish we could replay story quests through Echo as an alternative to FATEs just to mix class leveling up a bit. Or...if Esos can't come from more places could we at least see the Expert pool expand? Maybe the two new dungeons will be Expert. As it is the Fractal Continuum and Neverreap are burned into my retinas.

edit: Actually, yeah, I guess I am saying I'm "satisfied" with the endgame. It's released in bursts so people don't just burn through it all and then cry boredom a week later. When I find myself getting bored it's nice to know there will be future content patches.. There are things I'd do differently if I were the lead developer but I'm not and I think SE is doing a good job for the most part.

The only thing agitating me is, as I said, the Expert pool being only two dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Meya

Depression Quest, :P can crap game be called a game though.. :D

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You mean everquest? I love how people who never played EQ back in its hayday call it a crap game. You missed out, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

Duke Nukem Forever.

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name one game thats actually worth playing?

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Originally Posted by Evtrai

I hope this is your alt character, I have no idea how you can say you are still enjoying the content when you basically have done nothing from the expansion, you can't really talk about having fun with the current progression of the game when you haven't even reached the progression part of it, or what's being criticized in the video.

And that's the thing, this is basically the first MMO's ive played that it's "Addictive behavior" diminishes, as at the point the majority of players are at this moment is basically just log in a once each day per week for the lazy for capping esoteric, or once each reset to cap for the week, or just wait for raids, the content in this game has absolutely nothing of addictive in the longevity department. And the only addictive part of it that it used to have was the crafting and even that has been walled, effectively loosing my interest in it. Why haven't I left yet? because this is basically currently a glorified chatbox for me to talk with people of other cultures.

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It indeed is my alt, and again just because you arent enjoying yourself doesnt mean that im not. It's your opinion (which you are entitled to)

My main I have 3 classes max level, all crafts and gathere's @ 60, penta melded working on my 2* mats. I do my weekly alex for filler gear, I do savage at my own pace, cap my eso's, and red scrips. Treasure maps etc. etc. The list goes on. I'm having fun, if I wasnt I wouldnt be doing it on a 2nd account nor would I be playing.


Bottom line however is simple. Could the game be better? Of course!

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Originally Posted by SinisterJointss

You mean everquest? I love how people who never played EQ back in its hayday call it a crap game. Shows how much you actually know.



name one game thats actually worth playing?

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Not sure what you mean by "addictive behavior". If you mean name a game that doesn't rely on operant conditioning my answer would be "Any game that is not reliant on constant cashflow to be sustained". That would be non-MMO games and non iOS games. ALL games are meant to be engaging and all games want you to keep playing but that's not the same thing as operant conditioning.

I mean it in the same context as the original poster of the comment.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Some of the things we do in this game are just a chore. It is fun to reap the rewards at the end but often the journey is tediously boring. That's why you hear so many in the community complaining how others want things handed to them without "working" for it. People don't want to make the journey because it feels like work. That speaks volumes about how unfun it can be. Not to say that there aren't some fun things but mostly it's about making behaviors addictive so we keep coming back for more. Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHfiKav9fcQ

FFXIV fulfills all the criteria to create addictive behavior.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Not sure what you mean by "addictive behavior". If you mean name a game that doesn't rely on operant conditioning my answer would be "Any game that is not reliant on constant cashflow to be sustained". That would be non-MMO games and non iOS games. ALL games are meant to be engaging and all games want you to keep playing but that's not the same thing as operant conditioning.

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There are tons of games out there that do not fit your criteria of "addictive behavior" that are quite addictive.

RPG's
FPS'
RTS


you name it.

If you mean "addictive" in that you play because you WANT to, not because some sly trick of human psychology compels you into it then I agree. Every game is "addictive" in that fashion. Every game wants you to keep playing and wants to engage you. The good ones do this through deep, meaningful design not conditioning.

I'll use WoW again since it's fresh on my mind: I'd log in every day hoping today I'd get useful treasure from my garrison and today I'd get my loot drop and today I'd finish those goggles...then I realized I wasn't having fun. The game compelled me to keep playing but when I thought about it I realized I didn't really WANT to keep playing.

Compare to, say, SE's own title THIEF (A lesser game than its predecessors but stay with me here): I played that game for hours because I wanted to search around every corner, get into every room, hear every conversation. The game wasn't using weird tricks to make me do these things, I did it because I wanted to and I enjoyed every minute.

Compelling and engaging aren't quite the same thing, I think.

One interesting thing about FFXIV is you can actually run past end game content like Coil and still be challenged because of level sync system. If you haven't done this content and bored, queue up for Coil and old trials.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

Compare to, say, SE's own title THIEF (A lesser game than its predecessors but stay with me here): I played that game for hours because I wanted to search around every corner, get into every room, hear every conversation. The game wasn't using weird tricks to make me do these things, I did it because I wanted to and I enjoyed every minute.

Compelling and engaging aren't quite the same thing, I think.

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I would agree with you but in the end I do things in XIV because I have fun doing them. Not because of some methodical trickery that makes me think im having fun. I have fun playing with my friends, pvp, crafting, the list goes on. I choose to play this game, the game doesnt force me to.