Things I'm starting to hate on AST

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08-02-2015, 01:43 PM
VanEinstein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Until you actually get out there and do the parses then you will see instead of magically downloading the power of astro buffs. You can computate the range off p possible cards being pulled but when dozens of parses over the course of a month adds the average of buffing my family in dungeons it shows a different light.

I have two questions.
1) Are you on some mind-altering substance right now?
and
2) Can I have some?
08-02-2015, 01:56 PM
SovereignAegis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoekes

Did you ever realise that someones numbers in a given fight will change from try to try?

Mechanics, perfomance etc. is what you see in your parser differences.
This has a tenfold bigger impact on DPS.

You might give balance to one particular DPS in a fight, but depending on mechnics he leaves with less DPS than the try before where you didn't buff them.

The issue is with this statement you're implying an AST can actually pre-prepare for mechanics in advance and choose when and where to use their mechanics. Unfortunately cards are completely random so no amount of mechanical ingenuity can help an AST if they don't get lucky.

Like yeah you can walk in knowing you'll have the balance on spread but that's it.
08-02-2015, 02:11 PM
Ghishlain

Quote:

Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn

Good times!

I genuinely appreciate most of your math work, Ghishlain. I'm not particularly adept at serious mathematics, so I leave the sleuthing to those better at it than I; however, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine that most of the numbers certain people have been claiming are just flat out made up and astronomically inaccurate.

Thank ya for the compliment~ Was gonna write a really long post about how "adding 400 DPS with card buffs is impossible" but it seems like everyone here got the point across about that.
08-02-2015, 02:15 PM
Spoekes

Quote:

Originally Posted by SovereignAegis

The issue is with this statement you're implying an AST can actually pre-prepare for mechanics in advance and choose when and where to use their mechanics. Unfortunately cards are completely random so no amount of mechanical ingenuity can help an AST if they don't get lucky.

Like yeah you can walk in knowing you'll have the balance on spread but that's it.

Where do I imply that? I read again I can't see where you get that from, its not what I mean.

I was just saying the differences in his parser are effected by more than his cards.
08-02-2015, 02:18 PM
SovereignAegis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoekes

Where do I imply that? I read again I can't see where you get that from, its not what I mean.

I was just saying the differences in his parser are effected by more than his cards.

Ah my bad, I thought you were meaning an AST's mechanic's will vary from fight to fight.
08-02-2015, 02:53 PM
Ritsugamesh

Vlady, the amount of mis-information you are spouting is insane. Just a quick look at lodestone shows you are basing all your metrics, information and performance claims come from having only played AST at 60, having never even played SCH and not having any experience as a 60 WHM either. It is categorically false to suggest an AST can output the same amount of healing as other classes, you literally only need to look at the abilities of the jobs side by side and it's painfully obvious.

I'm in Savage 2 myself right now and I cannot even begin to believe having myself playing AST in there instead of SCH would be anything but a massive hindrance to our chances of success. I truly would love to speak to these supposed double AST in Savage 2 and by luck I'm on Balmung so hit me up because I just do not see how even combined they can make up for the lost DPS I provide, let alone the mitigation, healing and buffs I can provide coupled with a WHM. Truly, I would LOVE to speak with them.
08-02-2015, 05:20 PM
DarkmoonVael

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Lol 800 from a scholar on anything is the real laugh. Ban e maybe but not single target.

Oh lol, well we now know you cant get anywhere near those numbers...... Thankfully there is now a parse in this thread proving me right. So what i claim is provable, but what you are saying, as per usual, is pulled from the nether-regions and has no veracity behind it.

Perhaps you should think on how good people have to be on a class to get those numbers. And then we shall think on your claim that you get 150dps on sch in the same encounter, and balance the probabilty in skill level between you and i on sch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

http://imgur.com/CIiffbS

Again, please stop spreading misinformation. This is with just a CNJ in party. With Foe's/Trick Attack/etc, our numbers go even higher on single target. SCH is fully capable of outputting high single target damage.

Thanks for posting this here. Time to disprove Vlady et al with actual evidence, not random number pulled from the nether-regions. :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

I am sorry but show us a parse in actual raid environment where I think he is implying. That is practically in the same scenario as the 50 pages of people wanting a warrior nerfed because one did a 15k crit a while back.

Please notice that i specified that the 800 dps if from the faust fight only. Therefor your reading comprehension maybe needs some work. The expected dps of a SCH in a raid environment was seperated in my post, with faust and the subsequent fight being seperated. Please learn to comprehand what is being talked about rather doing this obtuse, flippant response. We are talking about possible SCH DPS obtained in faust normal by people who are highly skilled at this job. It make Vladys claim of 150 dps an absolute joke, and leads way to question his skill on this class, especially with his egregious clamin on SCH vs AST.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galdous

Except accuracy, stopping to go in and out of cleric stance to swap between eos and selene when the speed buff is used up. Easily missing faust from lack of gear vs a level 1 dummy that does not have any innate resistance or damage reduction.

Accuracy is absolutely not an issue in faust normal, i miss once or twice in the encounter. The SCH does no healing in this encounter. In a 2-2.5 min fight, fey wind is up for 1-1.5 min. This math is not difficult to do.

Also all of this is explained in my post. Did you actually read it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Lol. I am doing about 500 dps against a level 1 dummy even without dots right now. You cannot compare a raid level target to a level 1 training dummy.

Well it must be skill that makes up that last 300 dps then if you cant get it and others can. Proof has been posted in this thread about the specifics i have talked about. Once again, you can not prove a single thing you claim. Change the record.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

The reason the current healing meta is what it currently is because some groups are sticking to the quota. Astrologian puts out basically as much as a white mage without the cooldowns so to say that the astro cannot output enough healing to cover the scholar additional dps is not entirely true. They provide their utility around card buffs which are quite strong in the hands of a skilled player who can coordinate with other people. And from my own personal parse against a (lol dummy) I was easily pushing 800 dps as well. Nocturnal actually provides stronger single target heals potency wise then white mage is capable of and as a few pages down the math between sect stance and noc efficiency wise are the same unless I am mistaken so people who say that noc is in a bath situation right now need to do more then give it a small try.

Faust is not an aoe heavy fight minus his cleave and synastry easily covers the damage buff from 4-5 to let an astro solo heal as well as a white mage as long as he is not cleaving everyone. And the parse was from the mist ward but since I do not know if you can place higher level dummies in your house or not so I cannot say.

Its amazing how in one thread, you have gone from 150DPS, to 500DPS to 800DPS. Claims are not believable Vlady, unless you have suddenly figured how well the skilled healers are doing and learned from them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlady

Until you actually get out there and do the parses then you will see instead of magically downloading the power of astro buffs. You can computate the range off p possible cards being pulled but when dozens of parses over the course of a month adds the average of buffing my family in dungeons it shows a different light.

Hang on. So what you are saying is you want parsers to magicaly prove you right when it comes to card, yet when someone show evidence of the power of SCH DPS, it cant be counted?

SCH DPS is far higher than you claim it is and has been proven to be, albeit in once very specific case, but one in which you decided to argue against.

Sigh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yurimi

completely and utterly ignorant

I go for this one in regards to the person you are talking about :).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ritsugamesh

by luck I'm on Balmung so hit me up because I just do not see how even combined they can make up for the lost DPS I provide, let alone the mitigation, healing and buffs I can provide coupled with a WHM. Truly, I would LOVE to speak with them.

I have been waiting a long long long time for someone to take up his offer like this :). Can you do us all a favour and keep us updated on this proposal and how it goes when you are introduced to Balmung cutting edge progression raid groups who are running AST permanently in their raid groups, and especially the ones who are running 2 x AST :).
08-02-2015, 09:53 PM
AlexanderThorolund

The only thing I hate about Astrologian is the cool down time for celestial opposition. It feels like forever and I just want to spam it because it's so beautiful ;____;
08-02-2015, 10:48 PM
SovereignAegis

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderThorolund

The only thing I hate about Astrologian is the cool down time for celestial opposition. It feels like forever and I just want to spam it because it's so beautiful ;____;

Yeah it's pretty but then you realize that it's basically just half of a WHM's spammable holy then it's like just a giant sparkly thing (Which yes is spammable, I have just chugged through The Vault yet again spamming holy to AOE mobs!).

The 5s duration extension is nice though.
08-02-2015, 11:30 PM
Vlady

If you would have showed me the faust parse I would gladly have not pointed out the difference in a dummy and Faust. And after the 5 damage up buff as an Astro I guess I can say that the white mage has to take over helping to heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

Oh lol, well we now know you cant get anywhere near those numbers...... Thankfully there is now a parse in this thread proving me right. So what i claim is provable, but what you are saying, as per usual, is pulled from the nether-regions and has no veracity behind it.

Perhaps you should think on how good people have to be on a class to get those numbers. And then we shall think on your claim that you get 150dps on sch in the same encounter, and balance the probabilty in skill level between you and i on sch.

Thanks for posting this here. Time to disprove Vlady et al with actual evidence, not random number pulled from the nether-regions. :).

Please notice that i specified that the 800 dps if from the faust fight only. Therefor your reading comprehension maybe needs some work. The expected dps of a SCH in a raid environment was seperated in my post, with faust and the subsequent fight being seperated. Please learn to comprehand what is being talked about rather doing this obtuse, flippant response. We are talking about possible SCH DPS obtained in faust normal by people who are highly skilled at this job. It make Vladys claim of 150 dps an absolute joke, and leads way to question his skill on this class, especially with his egregious clamin on SCH vs AST.

Accuracy is absolutely not an issue in faust normal, i miss once or twice in the encounter. The SCH does no healing in this encounter. In a 2-2.5 min fight, fey wind is up for 1-1.5 min. This math is not difficult to do.

Also all of this is explained in my post. Did you actually read it?

Well it must be skill that makes up that last 300 dps then if you cant get it and others can. Proof has been posted in this thread about the specifics i have talked about. Once again, you can not prove a single thing you claim. Change the record.

Its amazing how in one thread, you have gone from 150DPS, to 500DPS to 800DPS. Claims are not believable Vlady, unless you have suddenly figured how well the skilled healers are doing and learned from them?

Hang on. So what you are saying is you want parsers to magicaly prove you right when it comes to card, yet when someone show evidence of the power of SCH DPS, it cant be counted?

SCH DPS is far higher than you claim it is and has been proven to be, albeit in once very specific case, but one in which you decided to argue against.

Sigh

I have been waiting a long long long time for someone to take up his offer like this :). Can you do us all a favour and keep us updated on this proposal and how it goes when you are introduced to Balmung cutting edge progression raid groups who are running AST permanently in their raid groups, and especially the ones who are running 2 x AST :).

If you cannot understand the difference between talking about normal Alexander and Savage then I really believe you are the one making yourself look like a fool and if you have issues healing alex normal with 2 astrologians then I would question your skill over anything else.

Yes when we start to raid against training dummies I will gladly take your advice on maximizing my damage output since two astrologians will be able to full dps during this fight.

Once more I only said that astrologian can keep up with white mage as a healer until you consider cooldowns then we should not be on par with the white mage because strongest on demand healing power is the realm of the white mage and its realm only.

Our utility buff wise is above the scholar which it should be. Instead of trying to always downplay the astrologian go out and do a few parses yourself with a dragoon and use balance on him once he uses his cooldowns (yes even on a training dummy.) and you will see where I get my numbers from.

The Astrologian has healed all content so far in this game and the bad attempts to downplay a job that very strong and only needs cooldown changes is silly.

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