Idea against Undercutting at the Marketboard (The next.. )

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

I generally will buy the highest price one as a lesson to the under-cutter.

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I have had a few buyers do this to me, and I find it a very frustrating and ignorant thing to do. Because what the buyer doesn't know is that the seller they bought from, who I undercut by a few gil, has been undercutting me by a few gil for days. Unless you've been tracking the market closely over a period of time, you have no idea who is undercutting who and how badly. So your "lesson" is totally pointless.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

<snip>If I see an item I need/want and the difference is one gil. I generally will buy the highest price one as a lesson to the under-cutter.<snip>

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OK, so you're the guy who walked up to the board and bought a South Sea Talisman for 100 gil higher than mine? (I know, you're not on the same server, this happened.) So I put one on the board and I used the average of the last 6 that sold since there were no others on the board. I get undercut by 30k. I stand my ground until 3 more appear under that, so I go under the bottom price. This guys undercuts me by 5 gil. I change my price and go about my business and the guy undercuts me again. I change and it happens again. I go lower and someone buys the higher priced one. To teach me a lesson? I'm not the one who started nerf'ing the price, but someone with an attitude like that buys the one above me. There's no history of who cut who, so why do you think your message is going to work?

Your logic might work for Ehcatl Sealant, because that's an in demand product. Like coke, Potash, Arachne Web, etc, those things are often bought completely out on the market, so eventually, if your price isn't exponentially high, you will sell it. But there are those things that you won't sell if enough people post lower prices, so your 'hold out' method won't always work.

Fact is that there is nothing but supply and demand to control the market. You can't stop people with no sense from posting an item that has 3 million gil in materials or an extremely rare item for rock bottom prices and you can't convince someone with limited gil resources that yours is a 'better' product. Unlike in real life, there's really only two options for product quality - NQ and HQ. Yeah, you can dye or add materia, but for the most part, there's nothing separating your item from the next person's. Therefore, there's no logical reason for someone to buy a higher priced item. You buy the higher price and then someone walks up to a board and buys the cheaper on right behind you. No lesson learned at all.

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Originally Posted by kiotsukete

I have had a few buyers do this to me, and I find it a very frustrating and ignorant thing to do. Because what the buyer doesn't know is that the seller they bought from, who I undercut by a few gil, has been undercutting me by a few gil for days. Unless you've been tracking the market closely over a period of time, you have no idea who is undercutting who and how badly. So your "lesson" is totally pointless.

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Originally Posted by EricCartmenez

OK, so you're the guy who walked up to the board and bought a South Sea Talisman for 100 gil higher than mine? (I know, you're not on the same server, this happened.) So I put one on the board and I used the average of the last 6 that sold since there were no others on the board. I get undercut by 30k. I stand my ground until 3 more appear under that, so I go under the bottom price. This guys undercuts me by 5 gil. I change my price and go about my business and the guy undercuts me again. I change and it happens again. I go lower and someone buys the higher priced one. To teach me a lesson? I'm not the one who started nerf'ing the price, but someone with an attitude like that buys the one above me. There's no history of who cut who, so why do you think your message is going to work?

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I understand that reading comprehension is not a common skill set here on these forums, but I did not know that simple mathematics, ie 1 gil is the same as a few, 25 or even 100 gil... Furthermore, neither of you are on my server/world... So your posts are pretty moot... (and yes I saw you state that I am not on your world so it was a stab back at you)<<<< That was moreso at the second person.

@kiotsukete I do camp the marketboard and see the 1gil undercutting war in action alot....

Also my post/point was moreso at the 1 gil cutter. Further I've been undercut many times by 1 gil, but I will repost my item IF I think I have room to move on its actual value. If not, I will wait for my profit. It's an MMO the item will disappear if priced reasonable and if it is not an Emery posted for 99,999,999,999

It's called supply and demand.

Too much supply not enough demand? Prices drop.(undercutting)
Too much demand not enough supply? Prices increase.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

I understand that reading comprehension is not a common skill set here on these forums, but I did not know that simple mathematics, ie 1 gil is the same as a few, 25 or even 100 gil... Furthermore, neither of you are on my server/world... So your posts are pretty moot... (and yes I saw you state that I am not on your world so it was a stab back at you)<<<< That was moreso at the second person.

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So the other poster and I were complaining about other buyers in general (not you to us specifically), but who do the same thing you do - buying the next lowest listing in a useless attempt to teach some stupid "lesson" against small undercutting. We are arguing the principle, that buying another seller's listing just because the undercut wasn't big enough in the buyer's opinion (whether 1, 5, or 100 gil w/e) is frustrating to the seller and ignorant of the buyer. It's called reading comprehension. You should learn it before whining about others' lack of it.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

@kiotsukete I do camp the marketboard and see the 1gil undercutting war in action alot....

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So what use is it to not to buy the lowest listing, then? There are few sellers who are innocent of such undercutting...

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Originally Posted by kiotsukete

So the other poster and I were complaining about other buyers in general (not you to us specifically), but who do the same thing you do - buying the next lowest listing in a useless attempt to teach some stupid "lesson" against small undercutting. We are arguing the principle, that buying another seller's listing just because the undercut wasn't big enough in the buyer's opinion (whether 1, 5, or 100 gil w/e) is frustrating to the seller and ignorant of the buyer. It's called reading comprehension. You should learn it before whining about others' lack of it.

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Firstly, I have no issue with reading comprehension. I was making a general statement, but I was stating you had more of a mathematics issue, because I was SPECIFICALLY pointing out 1 gil undercutting, not next lowest price. BIG difference with the two. Perhaps you should, read, re-read or re-re-read my post and work that tid bit out before calling anything ignorant when you did not understand my post in the first place... THAT's reading comprehension. OH and by the way, save the snappy flame for a nice set of firewood, not me...

And for the record the second person made a joke about referring directly to me about buyin x item because it was 100 gil difference, but yeh you get reading comprehension... right.... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kiotsukete

So what use is it to not to buy the lowest listing, then? There are few sellers who are innocent of such undercutting...

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If it is a reasonable undercut as I tried to point out previously, then I will consider it. 1 gil undercutting is not a bargain so I pick what I want to pick. If you think it is a bargain, then you are delusional... Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

...snip... 1 gil undercutting is not a bargain so I pick what I want to pick. If you think it is a bargain, then you are delusional... Simple as that.

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I would agree. I don't think anyone would say it is.

I am curious however as to why 1 gil undercutting is such a bad thing in your opinion. So bad in fact, you think they should be taught a lesson.

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

I would agree. I don't think anyone would say it is.

I am curious however as to why 1 gil undercutting is such a bad thing in your opinion. So bad in fact, you think they should be taught a lesson.

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1gil under-cutting is an insult to the original seller, who might've taken their time to price the item properly and competitively, and then some jerk comes along to post their item without reasonable thought or competitive pricing for a quick sell. It's one thing to under-cut competitively by 500 gil or a margin that would make taxes less, but 1 gil under-cutting is a lot of things, but nothing positive in my eye...

It's like someone relabeling "Fruity Pebbles" and selling it a penny cheaper in a local store rather than what the knock-off brands do with a total rename and "competitive" pricing. A single penny does not make a difference in competitive pricing, thus I do not buy items that are marked 1 penny/gil less than the next seller for that reason. And if the original seller ends up doing what the offender does by under-cutting the under-cutter by 1 gil, that's called stooping to their level, and therefore you'd get caught in the crossfire and your item maybe the one left in the dust. Post your items competitively... That's my point.

@Zedd702

Thank you for your honesty. I can respect that.

I'm also guilty of letting my emotions dictate my buying habits as well at times. I said this in a earlier post:

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

The only people I don't buy from are people with retainer names like: stupidslutface and dghjusyndgtf.

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I know that's bad for business. And don't get me wrong, if one of those retainers were selling vanya silk or a blue bird for 500 gil I'd buy it in a heart beat. We all have our quirks I suppose.

I'm just trying to clear up the notion that "1 gil undercutting is always bad and there's never a reason to do it". I'll give a couple examples, and maybe this will give people a more clear picture of what happens on the MB from the perspective of a seller who doesn't specialize in anything other than quantity and low-mid tier distribution.

*Selling fleece. I keep HQ fleece for my own use, but put NQ on the MB more often than not.

Example 1:

500 - randomseller1
600 - randomseller2
600 - randomseller2
600 - randomseller2
950 - randomseller3
1200 - randomseller4
1250 - randomseller5

I this case I won't undercut. I'll list my fleece at 500 gil. Not because I'm trying to protect market integrity (fleece are not worth 500 a piece, imo) but because there is a low risk of me being bottom paged.

Example 2:

599 - randomseller1
599 - randomseller1
599 - randomseller1
600 - randomseller2
600 - randomseller3
600 - randomseller3
600 - randomseller3
1200 - randomseller4
1250 - randomseller5

In this case, my fleece are going up at 598. Not because I think I'm offering someone a "deal", but because I now have competition for top page.

Example 3:

600 - randomseller1
600 - randomseller1
600 - randomseller1
600 - randomseller2
600 - randomseller3
600 - randomseller3
600 - randomseller3
700 - randomseller4
700 - randomseller5

In this case, the undercutting has "technically" begun. And as I said, in all these cases the product I'm selling seems overvalued to begin with (which is the case for a majority of products available on the market board). I'll list my fleece at 575. I would prefer it to be listed at 599. A price of 599 would seem to protect whatever integrity the MB has, but I'm still experimenting with the "does undercutting by 25,50,75 gil snare the people who are so opposed to 1 gil undercutting?"

And for anyone who might ask, "If you think it's overvalued, why don't you list at what you think is appropriate?"

It's simple. Anyone can go get fleece, just about anyone anyway. It's almost impossible to determine the value of this product. The only reason you buy fleece from the MB is convenience....how do you price convenience? I might as well capitalize on the current value.

Anyway, unless something is so grossly overvalued my 5 year old could point it out, I'll never undercut by a large margin. So in comparison, my selling habits seem rather "stand upish".

I don't undercut, and I dislike undercutter; however, I am against any changes to this system. I like the freedom.