Current fix for Warrior is not using Warrior Skills?

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Originally Posted by AsbelLahnt

That's why your other CD's will increase your wrath stacks, for a quicker progression to Infuriate. The Warrior just requires more micromanagement than most people will give the time for.

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So you're saying we should hold on Berserk for after IB because it gives one stack back ? And Vengeance on 2 min CD ?
Foresight... nope
Bloodbath... nope
ToB... nope
Conv... oh wait
AoE shit I forgot the name... woops no

There's no fast way to 5 stacks except Infuriate.

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Originally Posted by Uliq

The difference of the damage lost and the enmity modifier works off of different bases. While your damage reduction scales with leveling your enmity modifier on defiance doesn't. This is why level 50 PLD deals the same or more damage then warrior. This is also why Warriors (who stat all vit) are complaining they don't hold hate.

BTW - Enmity works as such:
Damage % (primary heal effect or inflicted) = Hate
Hate + Enmity mod = More hate
Damage + Minus enmity mod + enmity mod = Hate

In short. The greater your attack power the greater the loss of enmity. With defiance up and no strength stat your hate levels are the same as any dps while using enmity modifing moves.

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Attack power has nothing to do with it because it works on your damage mod, not your AP mod.
Every attack in the game has a base enmity modifier, for abilities like Cure, its an enmity of 1.
For abilities such as butcher's block, its something like a 5x mod.
Your enmity is calculated according to the following as you stated earlier.

enmity mod x damage = hate created

It is correct that PLD and WAR use different bases which is why War does about the same damage as a PLD in Shield oath, BUT, you are incorrect in your assertion that a Warrior generates significantly less threat than a PLD.
In fact, a WAR using the BB>BB>SE combos is going to generate the same amount of hate if not more.
Frankly I have no idea where you got the idea that Warriors have trouble holding hate, but it is a false one.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Attack power has nothing to do with it because it works on your damage mod, not your AP mod.
Every attack in the game has a base enmity modifier, for abilities like Cure, its an enmity of 1.
For abilities such as butcher's block, its something like a 5x mod.
Your enmity is calculated according to the following as you stated earlier.

enmity mod x damage = hate created

It is correct that PLD and WAR use different bases which is why War does about the same damage as a PLD in Shield oath, BUT, you are incorrect in your assertion that a Warrior generates significantly less threat than a PLD.
In fact, a WAR using the BB>BB>SE combos is going to generate the same amount of hate if not more.
Frankly I have no idea where you got the idea that Warriors have trouble holding hate, but it is a false one.

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Heck I find it too easy to take hate off Paladins in comparable gear. No way are we generating less hate.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Every attack in the game has a base enmity modifier, for abilities like Cure, its an enmity of 1.

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Cure is 0.5.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

In fact, a WAR using the BB>BB>SE combos is going to generate the same amount of hate if not more.

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Neglecting crit rate differences, you get 1.25*(2150+2150)+610*1.125=6061.25 equivalent enmity-potency per 3 combos, while PLD generates 2050*3 = 6150. WAR's bonus crit will depend on the situation, but if we assume 2.5 stacks average and neglect base crit rate, you'd get 6212.78125 -- just an example. PLD will drop up to an additional 550 potency from GCDs per 30s, which is going to give it a small lead. Regardless, all pretty close.

//EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Heck I find it too easy to take hate off Paladins in comparable gear. No way are we generating less hate.

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In the fight of PLD vs. WAR, the better-geared or higher-strength one will win.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Cure is 0.5.

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Ah, I must be mistaking it with another healing ability.
Was it CUre 2?

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Neglecting crit rate differences, you get 1.25*(2150+2150)+610*1.125=6061.25 equivalent enmity-potency per 3 combos, while PLD generates 2050*3 = 6150. WAR's bonus crit will depend on the situation, but if we assume 2.5 stacks average and neglect base crit rate, you'd get 6212.78125 -- just an example. PLD will drop up to an additional 550 potency from GCDs per 30s, which is going to give it a small lead. Regardless, all pretty close.

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Why do you assume 2.5 stacks?
Wouldn't the average be higher since typically, a Warrior will only use stacks for IB then replenish it with infuriate immediately.
But yeah, assuming crit rate is what I assumed due tot he 10% bonus from Stacks.

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Originally Posted by AsbelLahnt

I definitely see where you're coming from, and I've been behind that all the way. I am all for a tweak to the class, and happy that it's coming. I had seen way early in the posts that someone had said that infuriate was useless, along with seeing so many warriors just sucking in my world, and I wanted to get a mechanic out there that can be very useful.

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Infuriate as a 1 minute cooldown ability IS useless as a cooldown, unless you're fighting a boss who happens to only have 1 big move that they do once a minute. If warrior's had other useful cooldowns, other than TOB, it wouldn't be an issue. If you are clearing content as a warrior, you aren't a special snowflake. Your healers are.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Ah, I must be mistaking it with another healing ability.
Was it CUre 2?

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All healing magic has 0.5 enmity multiplier.
In the previous example if a WAR lands a combo (1.25*(2150+2150)+610*1.125=6061.25), a healer would need to heal you for 12K HP (to generate 6000+ enmity) to steal aggro.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Why do you assume 2.5 stacks?

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Totally arbitrary. Just an example case. You aren't going to see some huge difference anyway, and IB use actually reduces your enmity gain.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

In the previous example if a WAR lands a combo (1.25*(2150+2150)+610*1.125=6061.25), a healer would need to heal you for 12K HP (to generate 6000+ enmity) to steal aggro.

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I have never actually tested healing bonuses to see whether they increase enmity. Has anyone tested it?