Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

So are we getting a new fanta from the same NPC in Gridania? I'm a bit confused.

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Originally Posted by SchwarzwaelderTorte

I can't provide a link because it was probably in Japanese and thus hard to google, so you'll just have to trust me on that one, but as far as I know Yoshida said in an interview a while ago that the objective was to have the double dye channels fully implemented by 7.3.

Even if I've been puzzled by their logic and priorities that sometimes feel very counterproductive (even aside from the graphical update: releasing that new housing interior remodeling feature that requires you to remove every item BEFORE increasing the number of items that can be placed and stored, which is something that was announced some time before 7.0.....? and it's not available for FC rooms and apartments...? why???), it's safe to assume that textures, models, and dye channels are being updated at the same time. They've been prioritizing AF gear, relics, and lvl 1 gear like Island Sanctuary and premium stuff for now because they're probably the most popular (according to stats or their own biased opinion, who knows), but eventually they'll have to deal with every piece of gear.
I think that on this particular point it's simply a question of patience, even if it is frustrating that it's taking so long, and that so little official, international communication about it is being released.

But are the double dye channels on old gear going to be any good, or will it be another "you can now dye the thread on this button!!" situation, that's another question...

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Yoshida also said that viera and hrothgar hat compatibility would be something that would be gradually introduced throughout Shadowbringers, nearly 6 years ago. I can't take him at his word anymore, especially with timeframes.

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Originally Posted by Cherrizini

So are we getting a new fanta from the same NPC in Gridania? I'm a bit confused.

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Yes just for a treat in 7.3 we're getting our 3rd free fanta due to character adjustments again.

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Originally Posted by shinjyu

my 2nd post
https://i.ibb.co/c8Rv11W/IMG-0934.png

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I never imagined I'd have to suffer this long just because I chose a less popular face. The graphics update may have been a guide to heaven for someone, but for me it was just a way to hell. I don't want to argue with people who say, "No, your face looks absolutely fine," and I don't want to take screenshots for another comparison. The loss of my character's face has left me unable to paint. Running the game itself is a huge stress, and I can't even sleep properly because of anxiety, anger and frustration. When will everything be rewarded? I hope it will be this Tuesday.

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Originally Posted by Tarath

What makes you so certain of that?
The only mention of updated hands I've seen was on a PLL before DT release where Yoshi-p tried (and failed) to showcase the new hands on his lala.

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They have said many times they're updating all the gear eventually. While you're correct that I don't recall them specifically saying the exact words "while we're graphically updating all the pre-7.0 hand gear we're also updating the hand polygons as well," it is within reason to assume that they will do since it would be counterproductive and make little sense not to. I don't think it's necessary to spell out what can reasonably be inferred as a given in a sentence but it seems you disagree so we'll have to agree to disagree there. :)

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Originally Posted by Tarath

In addition shouldn't I be able to critique what's currently in the game with no mention of when it'll be updated?

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You can critique whatever you wish, never said you couldn't. In your original comment you said you weren't aware of something and I tried to assist.

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Originally Posted by Tarath

I would be delighted to be proven wrong, but only SE can do that by following through with their statements.

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True, we'll see what happens as the patches roll out.

instead of being excited for patch day, i'm sitting here worried about how they're going to butcher my character this time loool

I looked at my character in previous benchmark
https://i.imgur.com/NkZ4JLm.png This was her before graphical update
And this is her after:
https://i.imgur.com/SOToKqB.png

The lips have completely changed shape as they have for many others. For some reason, faces 1-2 and 3 on female viera got to keep a cute and defined cupids bow on most of their lips. Face four didn't. They now have very flat and wide lips. Like someone injected lipfiller to a really bad degree.
On top of that, her face has been so smoothed out that she looks alot younger and waxy, which I completely hate. I chose face 4 because she looked more mature. Now she just looks like she had filler that ages her. The shadows on her nose have also changed and when light shines on her face she now get a really big, wide nose that disfigures her. I am hoping that tuesday rectifies all of these changes. I am HOPING that the devs simply didnt have time to reach the face fours of each race to make them look good. But I have been struggling since the change. My viera was a huge part of my enjoyment of this game. I have tried to fantasia her but all the mouths and noses on face 4 look horrible. I have tried going other races and other faces but it really makes me enjoy the game less.
The comparison below ofcourse wont be as fair as the other due to light changes but this was my viera before in direct light:
https://i.imgur.com/hcxBjaC.png
And this is my viera now in direct light:
https://i.imgur.com/kg5h50G.png
Please change her back. give her mouth and nose definition again. Remove the sharp eyeliners and bring back her long eyelashes.

At this point no one is EVER going to be happy about any changes. People got used to things they changed in 7.1, and now will possibly have to redo everything all over again depending WHAT changes. At this point in time, players have to pick the lesser poison to drink. Everyone has different expectations for their characters. One may be happy, while another will be upset. There is no winning here for everyone. I hope one day they can bring back EW options but up to 7.0 standards but i doubt they will do that. A whole character creator overhaul is needed as I've seen mentioned multiple times. SE just needs to stop doing random graphic model changes as it will continue this vicious cycle.

Players will just have to bite the bullet and do their best to adjust. No one will is going to be happy and nitpick /everything/. I'm sorry some people lost their WoLs they had before the graphic update. I hope and wish you find something that works for you.

A more robust character creator is the only true solution, as many have pointed out. But again, I feel the need to say: This update was mishandled from the start, and though I feel bad for those who disliked the changes from 7.0 to 7.1, I cannot hold that attachment to the same degree of importance as people who had literal years with their characters before the update ruined them.

I'm starting to think that a single Fantasia that's limited to only one patch before they're entirely removed from the game is their cheeky way to bribe people to stay subbed rather than just come out and admit all these weird deliberate design changes.

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Originally Posted by switchblades

instead of being excited for patch day, i'm sitting here worried about how they're going to butcher my character this time loool

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Same. Now that we're down to the wire I'm so stressed ;-;

I can't imagine there are any big changes happening. They have completely ignored some of the complaints and sent them to "working as intended" so this is probably something minor.
And for those saying to "just accept": I have had my character since vieras came out. I have taken thousands of pictures of her. She was mine and in the glamour community she was even recognized by some. I TRIED during Dawntrail to just live with the changes. I tried to think what the people on this forum were saying "I am just overreacting, I am sure I will get used to this" but after seeing her in cutscene after cutscene where she was unrecognizable and ugly I just couldn't anymore. And I say "ugly" because to me she isn't HER anymore. Her smile looks like a banana, her cupids bow is gone, her nose looked massive in every cutscene.
And I CAN'T fantasia her to look like herself anymore because THERE ARE NO OPTIONS TO.
I agree the character creation needs a massive overhaul. The options, as they are right now, are TOO limiting.
Also if anyone has any ideas on how to deal with the changes, how to get used to them or how to get used to playing a different character and staying happy then do say so because I have tried and I can't. It just isn't HER.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Yoshida also said that viera and hrothgar hat compatibility would be something that would be gradually introduced throughout Shadowbringers, nearly 6 years ago. I can't take him at his word anymore, especially with timeframes.

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That was during Endwalker, not Shadowbringers. During Shadowbringers they maintained the stance that not having hats or the opposite sex was by design and wasn't a priority.
That narrative changed when they announced male Viera and female Hrothgar were in the works, but stated the other two variants for the races would take priority to hats.

Having a face 1 male Miqo'te, I'm feeling a little nervous. It feels like this race/sex/face combo is so unpopular that it's been at the bottom of the priority list, but on the other hand, it's 7.2 now. So I'm currently going between "it'll be the same as every update" and "maybe this is the time something good happens!" Or just something happens so I know where to go from there.

It seems like Thancred will stay the same. According to the reading session, the NPC with faces adjusted are

Lyse, Aymeric, and Emet Selch/Solus.

I'm starting to worry about Aymeric.

I'm fearing for the quality of the dinner scene. : (

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Originally Posted by Argantaelle

It seems like Thancred will stay the same. According to the reading session, the NPC with faces adjusted are

Lyse, Aymeric, and Emet Selch/Solus.

I'm starting to worry about Aymeric.

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If they fuck up Aymeric and either version of Emet, there are going to be a lot of people going feral.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

If they fuck up Aymeric and either version of Emet, there are going to be a lot of people going feral.

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You mean like this?

https://i.imgur.com/T1lB9lu.jpeg

do we know conclusively if they updated the elpis npc models? if they have, then I'm not as worried about emet-selch as I could be. however if those still aren't updated, I'm nervous. any npc with a distinct lip shape is one i worry will get nerfed by the update...

Aymeric has a modified Au Ra face and I don't like what happened to those. :(

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Originally Posted by eohippus

do we know conclusively if they updated the elpis npc models? if they have, then I'm not as worried about emet-selch as I could be. however if those still aren't updated, I'm nervous. any npc with a distinct lip shape is one i worry will get nerfed by the update...

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They've changed the Ancients' eyes a couple times, but I think that's it. They almost completely lost their glow in 7.0 unless they were in complete darkness, then 7.1 changed it so that there's some vibrance in lit areas but still less than 6.X.

The servers went live.

None of the issues I've posted multiple times were addressed. The eyebrows are still transparent, Raen scales are still dirty, and the second Au Ra male face still has its ugly new mouth.

Well, I expected nothing, but still SE managed to disappoint me even more. Good job!

It's especially funny because the first benchmark was released about a year ago. For a year players (at least some of them) have been trying to make their voices heard.

P.S. Smiles are still terrible (especially if a NPC is talking with a smile on their face); I've checked a few. I wonder if SE did anything at all.

This is still bad (minimal ARR spoilers)

https://i.imgur.com/2v93e7U.png

P.S.S.
When I was looking through cutscenes to check on Thancred (he hasn't changed sadly) and Aymeric, I noticed that the eyes started to look more lively. It almost seemed like SE decided to combine both reflective light and hard-painted highlights. But I might be mistaken, of course, future testing is required.

Praise the Twelve, Aymeric looks like himself (the only drastic change is his ears).

Male Midlander young face has still skin issues aka dirt on their cheeks, female Aura face 2 still has wrong mouth shape, Dunesfolk still has much more dead washed out eyes than before DT. All bad as before. Well...
Did someone notice any change?

*edits:
Things I saw:
My lalafels smile seem to be worse than before, compared to how it was pre DT.
It used to be just a cute wide : )
Since DT it became weird because the mouth corners became very sharp while smiling. Now they are sharp AND bending. xD
I just want the : ) back. :c

I am not sure but I think they changed something on the mouth from aura face 2, but yeah, it's still the wrong shape und the lower lip is still bending unnaturally upwards, instead of being just normally round (pre DT it also was normally round).

Something positve:
The new texture of the magitek jacket is really nice imo. : )

The only thing I can confirm right now is that the male midlander face 6 "simper" is where I can notice change but literally only in the eyebrows. The eyebrows don't dip unnaturally anymore but the lip shape and the mouth expression are unchanged and uncanny.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the eyes stay quite wide when doing the expression compared to 6.58

Edit: I take it back...eyebrows are still weird during "scoff"...it's more likely nothing changed.

I do not see any changes to vieras. The nose is still really dark, and lips still look weird.

Very unhappily reporting in from the Miqo'te Face 2 Eyebrow Thread.

There are no changes to this face's features. The only difference I can tell is that the shadows on the face were adjusted a little; toned down and slightly more saturated in color. Without the much preferred changes to our eyebrows though, why even bother giving out the free Fantasia? It's a waste when they refuse to actually make changes to the features that we ask for.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

The tail is supposed to be coming out of the patch on the lower spine, but instead that patch is far above where it should be

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The scale patch has always been above the tail, they were never connected. I know this as its puzzled me since they were introduced in Heavensward, its just a scale floating above the tail with no rhyme or reason.
You can load up any benchmark from Heavensward all the way to Dawntrail to see this same scale configuration, its nothing new.

AAAAAAAH SHE WAS RIGHT

Did I gaslight myself? My god, why have that there--

My brain is eating itself.

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Originally Posted by Jatoi

AAAAAAAH SHE WAS RIGHT

Did I gaslight myself? My god, why have that there--

My brain is eating itself.

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No worries. Its been there all this time and now you too can suffer in the knowledge that for some god awful reason, they thought a 1-2in gap above the tail made sense artistically ><
I have been so annoyed by this detail for years, but clearly its intended. lol

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

No worries. Its been there all this time and now you too can suffer in the knowledge that for some god awful reason, they thought a 1-2in gap above the tail made sense artistically ><
I have been so annoyed by this detail for years, but clearly its intended. lol

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( God, how awkward that looks. It's like an itch I can't scratch. )

I always drew the tails coming out from the patch, no wonder it felt so jarring when I noticed the gap.

On a note that doesn't feel so strange, some of the NPCs listed on the page before don't feel so plasticy and the textures aren't smudgy either ( skin isn't barbie smooth now ).

They seem to have slightly darkened Femroe Face 2 Roes nose ash which I love to see but is still does not seem to be as dark as it was before? They have adjusted the top lash line, which WAS bugging me.

However the round bulbous nose (Still the only Femroe face with this issue, everyone else has a sharp nose and the shadows don't give them this hyur nose impression) and worst of all the dark snake eyes remain.

There might have been some other changes with expressions, nose don't seem to bend the same as before and for some expressions the under eye it feels less warp hard? Might post pics later for what I noticed, but I'm just... Tired. and some stuff I was so upset with looking at since 7.0 I couldn't even take pics but I do have a video going through all the weird expressions from when our faces use to twitch like a heart beat pulsing in our face.

Will look at my darker girls later to see if they've adjusted the gastly oily look or not. OTL

I am failing to see any of the issues the community raised about character adjustments having actually been addressed at all.

Looks like they didn't do much if anything to male miqo face 1. Which is a travesty because the mouth is still utterly fucked. I want the god damn frog mouth gone already :(

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Originally Posted by HawkeScream

I am failing to see any of the issues the community raised about character adjustments having actually been addressed at all.

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"Maybe we'll fix your character next patch!" is CS3's new carrot on a stick.

Damn, I was hoping when they said they’d update characters, especially the corners of mouths that appeared to be lifted or lowered, they didn’t touch Miqo Male face 4 at all…

Guess this is me forever now

https://i.imgur.com/OI1HYMT.gif

I'm not seeing any changes on my char either.

I doubt they have done much judging by the replies in this thread...

I will log on later and see if they have addressed some of my issues but I will not get my hopes up :(

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Originally Posted by Daralii

"Maybe we'll fix your character next patch!" is CS3's new carrot on a stick.

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Fool me once as they say. Carrot looking kinda dry and unappealing at this point though.

Does anyone know if it's better if we keep it up in this thread or if it would be better to start a new megathread for 7.2?

I think folks need to expect just the slightest of tweaks moving forward. They seem more focused on lighting, gear updates and environmental updates. Anything character-related will most likely be highly selective and minor. They can't do this forever and keep giving out fantasia every patch indefinitely. Folks expecting every minor nuance to be addressed at this point (and I know for many something minor seems major cuz it is personal and your character) are setting up for disappointment.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

"Maybe we'll fix your character next patch!" is CS3's new carrot on a stick.

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Except the infamous Lodestone post only covered the plans for 7.1 and 7.2. And given how more and more reluctant they are to express themselves on this subject (not a single extra comment in the patch notes reading session stream yesterday), there's very little reason to believe they'll spend any more time or resources on this issue, unless they resort to silently change things from now on. Still I think there's no reason to have any expectations at all for 7.3 and beyond, except if after 6 months of silence we get another official announcement about the graphical update (extremely unlikely).

So I guess it's up to the players to decide what to do from now on: accept the current state of things despite a year's worth of feedback, start breaking ToS, or stop p(l)aying entirely.
Feels great :^)