The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by enil

kukurumei, you really add nothing to the discussion, you keep telling people to not use DoTs/Bootshine and other abilities because its TOO HARD.
Difficulty is entirely subjective, it's not something you can determine for someone else, yes I would recommend a simpler rotation to someone who has problems doing something more optimal or changing the way they fight for the boss but you should always be trying to achieve the maximum dps for each fight especially in a theorycrafting thread. You are telling people to be mediocre because it's too much effort otherwise.

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It looks to me like people wants to slack on their roles and try to make it as global and common as possible (a la "why do you always hit from the side, isn't your class really positional?" - "yeah but every monk is doing these rotations because it doesn't really pay off") so that they're not looked down on / compared to other monks who actually play their class to the fullest :p

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Originally Posted by enil

kukurumei, you really add nothing to the discussion, you keep telling people to not use DoTs/Bootshine and other abilities because its TOO HARD.
Difficulty is entirely subjective, it's not something you can determine for someone else, yes I would recommend a simpler rotation to someone who has problems doing something more optimal or changing the way they fight for the boss but you should always be trying to achieve the maximum dps for each fight especially in a theorycrafting thread. You are telling people to be mediocre because it's too much effort otherwise.

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That's an elitist attitude.

Again
knowing the dungeon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rotation.

This thread is about discussing and giving out advice, not be "if you cant be super mnk, don't play mnk" That's bullcrap and gives mnks their rightly deserved bad name.

Since mnks in particular have a large cliff, I'll say it again: 90% of your effectiveness is done simply 1-2-3. So I tell people 1-2-3 it. It works, stop having a bee up your rear. Once you know 1-2-3 works, 3+1 3+2 3+3 comes easily.

If you're doing super mnk, you don't need to be taking advice, but don't expect people to be super mnk or bust.

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Originally Posted by Vektrat

It looks to me like people wants to slack on their roles and try to make it as global and common as possible (a la "why do you always hit from the side, isn't your class really positional?" - "yeah but every monk is doing these rotations because it doesn't really pay off") so that they're not looked down on / compared to other monks who actually play their class to the fullest :p

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How about people actually winning. Who cares if you slack or don't slack or just drunk. Pay attention to cues, do what you are suppose to be doing, and be where you should be. That wins the battle.

All you are boiling down to it is, go big or bust...and in reality, this is game is designed the exact opposite. All you're doing is squeezing out another 10%, that doesn't really make a difference between winning and loosing most of the time.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

That's an elitist attitude.

Again
knowing the dungeon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rotation.

This thread is about discussing and giving out advice, not be "if you cant be super mnk, don't play mnk" That's bullcrap and gives mnks their rightly deserved bad name.

How about people actually winning.

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Then you're in the wrong forum, this thread is about discussing and giving advice to MONKS.

Everybody knows that dungeon > rotation > skills (honestly, it's the other way around), but people interested to get better at dungeons will go to the dungeon section.

People is here to maximize MNK performance, yes, it is not the first in the chain, but either they don't care, or either they already know the first one and want to progress further with the following, so let them become better at MNK.

And if they are not here to max MNK performance and just want to get "OK" results, then they will read one of your comments and be happy, but if people is actively asking and pushing to try to go past this slack-phase, then don't try convincing them of the opposite.

Maybe it is just a 2% performance increase (it is actually greater than that), well what if it was? People still wants to reach it. I personally enjoy trying to play ANY class to its maximum, and MNK is no exception regardless of its difficulty, in the end I may fail or not, but I prefer to try than to feel like I'm half-playing the game in a boring way. At least for myself I'm not happy with being an OK monk, I always aim to be an exceptional one.

And let me tell you one thing, you may still be winning by average-performing, but you'd be contributing more if you worked it harder. Things get easier as the team AND INDIVIDUALS gets better at doing stuff, and this is also progress, if you're happy with your team having to carry you, that's ok for me as long as I'm not there. For many, it is not over once you win the encounter, and just out of respect if there's people in your team that feel like this, you should at least not try to turn them into players that aren't happy to aim for the best performance possible, because if they slacked it would still be a win.

It gets a tad bit more complicated at LV 50 when you get Perfect Balance and Dragon Kick

...Why drop any of your Opo-Opo Bonus moves from the rotation? 100% critical hit rates from Bootshine and the 10% blunt resistance decrease are both pretty helpful to your overall DoT. Touch of Death, Demolish, and Fracture are not bad either but It's a priority to make sure you stay in Greased Lightning as best as you can during fights.

So I was doing some "Testing" on a Striking dummy with DoTs Fracture, Demo, and ToD and it seems better to try not to keep them in your rotation. Maybe at the start Frature and Demo was out doing ToD. Now when they crit hit they did ok dmg, but no where near close enough to a crit hit on your other skills so I don't think they are worth using. I was testing them for about 2hrs.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

So I was doing some "Testing" on a Striking dummy with DoTs Fracture, Demo, and ToD and it seems better to try not to keep them in your rotation. Maybe at the start Frature and Demo was out doing ToD. Now when they crit hit they did ok dmg, but no where near close enough to a crit hit on your other skills so I don't think they are worth using. I was testing them for about 2hrs.

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Try to think more deeply ...

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Originally Posted by Arkista

So I was doing some "Testing" on a Striking dummy with DoTs Fracture, Demo, and ToD and it seems better to try not to keep them in your rotation. Maybe at the start Frature and Demo was out doing ToD. Now when they crit hit they did ok dmg, but no where near close enough to a crit hit on your other skills so I don't think they are worth using. I was testing them for about 2hrs.

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Under full buffs I find my Demolish and Fracture ticking for well over 100 damage each, not even counting crits. That alone puts their total damage over any other attack you can do as long as they can tick for their full duration.

Pls monk sayin dont use dots are so stupid... keep those 3 dots up, dont mess up ur GL and you will be fine.

This make no sense. I was testing on dummies. If I use Bootshine in rotation I lose 20-30 DPS.

If I just use Dragon Kick -> Twin Snake -> Snap Punch//Demolish while keeping Fracture and ToD up seem best dps. I have no idea why using True Strike and Bootshine in rotation the parser is giving me DPS loss. Maybe its the time required to reposition?

Opinions?

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

This make no sense. I was testing on dummies. If I use Bootshine in rotation I lose 20-30 DPS.

If I just use Dragon Kick -> Twin Snake -> Snap Punch//Demolish while keeping Fracture and ToD up seem best dps. I have no idea why using True Strike and Bootshine in rotation the parser is giving me DPS loss. Maybe its the time required to reposition?

Opinions?

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between bootshine and dragon kick: It's because of the 10% blunt damage debuff you put on the enemy, if it was a few seconds longer you'd might be able to go bs, dk,bs, dk, like demo/snap instead of only dragon kick. However if there is another monk in your group, one of you can keep the dragonkick debuff up, and the other person will also benefit from it and then they can use bootshine instead by piggy backing off the other monk applying the debuff for the most group dps.

between twin snakes and true strike: it's because twin snakes gives +10% to ALL damage, you don't want that thing to fall and it only lasts 12s, if it lasted 6-8s longer, then you can switch between twin and true like you would demo/snap.

and no it doesn't have to do anything with time to reposition which you can easily do within the global cooldown window.

so you want:
DK>twin>demo/snap
BS>twin>demo/snap if in a group with another monk who agreed to be the one applying dragon kick.