New summoner is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by tearagion

Your rotation doesn't significantly change from level 22 to 85. It's a minute of mostly instant casts with some traits and a couple oGCDs sprinkled in here and there between the pretty lights. Specifically brand-new buttons per minute you get 1 Astral Flow (oGCD), half a Searing Light (raid buff oGCD), an Enkindle (oGCD), and Ruin 4 (GCD). Really incredible stuff. To add onto that, you get 3 more new buttons by 86 of which the only ones that have a rotational demand are Slipstream and Crimson Cyclone, the others are pretty much just silver platter'd. Reaper from 70 to 90 gets far more to sink its teeth into than Summoner from 22-85 and it's also regarded as a very simple class.

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Healers basic damage rotation is the same from lvl 4 to lvl 90 (All of 2 buttons, one of them being a 30s dot). Cry me a river.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Healers basic damage rotation is the same from lvl 4 to lvl 90. Cry me a river.

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I'm personally pretty okay with new SMN but in their defense, a common pain point for a LOT of healer players is that their dps rotation is so stagnant and none of the current content requires the bloated healing kits they currently have, leading to a large majority of your kit seeing little to not practical use and glare/broil spam to win the day, which is extremely boring

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Originally Posted by DezereDawn

I'm personally pretty okay with new SMN but in their defense, a common pain point for a LOT of healer players is that their dps rotation is so stagnant and none of the current content requires the bloated healing kits they currently have, leading to a large majority of your kit seeing little to not practical use and glare/broil spam to win the day, which is extremely boring

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Deceptus is one of many healer mains who have given up the healer role because of that glare/broil/malefic/dosis spam.

Even if we had the incoming damage to make use of our bloated healing kits, it would still be unacceptable because we still have do fates, hunts, solo duties, bozja, eureka etc.

Braindead is unacceptable state of affairs. The only reason sage is getting a pass right now is because its got the "newness" and is overpowered when in fact its the same 1 button spam nonsense and it plays like a mishmash of whm and sch rather than anything new.

give it a few months for the bottom of the barrel players to whinge about how they cant heal on sage and healers will be back to being in constant need.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Well please enlighten us as to what a realized summoner would look like other than just slapping a bunch of DoTs to upkeep in there.

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Any system to keep track of at all, at the moment the job gauge is is only useful as a timer to tell you how long you have to Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix and how many Aetherflow charges you have, a system that is frankly more vestigial than DoTs were and should have received much more attention than it has (which was none). There are many possibilities for expansion. You could bring back the concept of Aethertrail to augment the abilities your demi will use, say for instance you used all painflares, maybe Bahamut will only cast some AoE version of wyrmwave. Primal attunement could also be extended to the Aetherflow system, for instance maybe an Ifrit attuned Aetherflow gives Bahamut Flarebreath, maybe Titan gives Flatten, maybe Garuda gives Tempest Wing. Potencies adjusted, these could have different niches or interactions, or at the absolute least maybe you want one of each.

What I'm asking for I guess is for abilities to mean something to each other, right now you just go down the incredibly simple checklist in almost the same order every time without even the difficulty of finding a space to stand still and cast for more than ~7-8 seconds a minute. Bit of an unfair question from you, but I hope I've communicated that I do think this version has potential, and that Aetherflow and skill interaction are both pretty pathetic and what I would want to see change first.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Healers basic damage rotation is the same from lvl 4 to lvl 90. Cry me a river.

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Okay? That's a problem too in my opinion, not that this is the thread for it.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

Any system to keep track of at all, at the moment the job gauge is is only useful as a timer to tell you how long you have to Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix and how many Aetherflow charges you have, a system that is frankly more vestigial than DoTs were and should have received much more attention than it has (which was none). There are many possibilities for expansion. You could bring back the concept of Aethertrail to augment the abilities your demi will use, say for instance you used all painflares, maybe Bahamut will only cast some AoE version of wyrmwave. Primal attunement could also be extended to the Aetherflow system, for instance maybe an Ifrit attuned Aetherflow gives Bahamut Flarebreath, maybe Titan gives Flatten, maybe Garuda gives Tempest Wing. Potencies adjusted, these could have different niches or interactions, or at the absolute least maybe you want one of each.

What I'm asking for I guess is for abilities to mean something to each other, right now you just go down the incredibly simple checklist in almost the same order every time without even the difficulty of finding a space to stand still and cast for more than ~7-8 seconds a minute. Bit of an unfair question from you, but I hope I've communicated that I do think this version has potential, and that Aetherflow and skill interaction are both pretty pathetic and what I would want to see change first.

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Unless all those things are somehow balanced incredibly well, you will only end up using one of those attunements for Bahamut, whichever gives the most DPS gain. If they all give the same DPS gain then they are just different particle effects for the same ability. While I actually like the idea of summons granting buffs or certain party wide effects, unless you force players to cycle through all of them in the way they do now you will only be using one of these summons, again whichever gives the highest DPS gain.

Do you think Square soft could improve the summoner gameplay according to this topic?

Do they usually care about what players say?

I'm asking that because I'm not very happy with the new gameplay which is too easy to play...

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Unless all those things are somehow balanced incredibly well, you will only end up using one of those attunements for Bahamut, whichever gives the most DPS gain. If they all give the same DPS gain then they are just different particle effects for the same ability. While I actually like the idea of summons granting buffs or certain party wide effects, unless you force players to cycle through all of them in the way they do now you will only be using one of these summons, again whichever gives the highest DPS gain.

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The point wasn't the specific changes, and aside from that there are a variety of ways to incentivise using specific skills only a few times and filling in the gaps with potency. Probably the simplest example is MNK's basic rotation, keep up Disciplined Fist and Demolish. Their different durations mean that your basic rotation is the most varied of all melee dps.

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Originally Posted by neolopia

Do you think Square soft could improve the summoner gameplay according to this topic?

Do they usually care about what players say?

I'm asking that because I'm not very happy with the new gameplay which is too easy to play...

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historically they don't take in much of what the non-japanese players have to say

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

Deceptus is one of many healer mains who have given up the healer role because of that glare/broil/malefic/dosis spam.

Even if we had the incoming damage to make use of our bloated healing kits, it would still be unacceptable because we still have do fates, hunts, solo duties, bozja, eureka etc.

Braindead is unacceptable state of affairs. The only reason sage is getting a pass right now is because its got the "newness" and is overpowered when in fact its the same 1 button spam nonsense and it plays like a mishmash of whm and sch rather than anything new.

give it a few months for the bottom of the barrel players to whinge about how they cant heal on sage and healers will be back to being in constant need.

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Yeah I have zero idea how and why SE determined that SGE is an advanced healer job that will be challenging and fun for veteran players.

It is just not.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Healers basic damage rotation is the same from lvl 4 to lvl 90 (All of 2 buttons, one of them being a 30s dot). Cry me a river.

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https://i.gifer.com/origin/2c/2cd20e...5ce7_w200.webp

If you didn't notice this isn't thread about how Yoshi-P screwed over Healers yet again, it's about how Yoshi-P screwed over SMN.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

historically they don't take in much of what the non-japanese players have to say

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Not true but we'll move along anyway.

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Originally Posted by neolopia

Do you think Square soft could improve the summoner gameplay according to this topic?

Do they usually care about what players say?

I'm asking that because I'm not very happy with the new gameplay which is too easy to play...

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They rarely make major changes to a job in the middle of a expansion cycle even went it's clearly needed. Thread can make an impact if; the Language speaking mods bring the ideas to the SE team and if the SE Team to include Yoshi-P would get off their damn high horse and really listen to the players feedback. I honestly think success have made the team rather arrogant from their humble beginnings.

I've played every iteration of SMN (played since beta), and this one is my favorite. It needs a bit more complexity, but overall I enjoy the feel of it.