Yeah. If you look at Kimahri from the FFX/X-2 Remaster and compare it to XIV it's pretty noticeable, but comparing it to other XIV in-game furry / fuzzy things it seems consistent. I think the way Hrothgar were visually designed is less of a design choice because of artistic vision but more of a choice because of technical limitations. So it's nice for what they had to work with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskane
Male Viera as a playable character! show your support
Printable View
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04-03-2019, 02:27 PMXebric
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04-03-2019, 02:38 PMKazranReminds me more of Trevor Belmont from the anime and I love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xebric
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04-03-2019, 02:47 PMzeylos
This is the type of armor we deserve in game uwu
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a14abc37...lo1_r1_500.jpg
(cant find source) -
04-03-2019, 02:53 PMTheodric
I could live without that. I much prefer subtle, tasteful fan service.
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04-03-2019, 02:54 PMEmmanellainHahahaha as great as that would be for starter gear, I'm afraid we could be lucky enough to get the top half, buuuut the lower part would most likely be covered in a pant.Quote:
Originally Posted by zeylos
The chest piece would be awesome though, it's less revealing and more flattering than say, the hellfire window from the Tank primal set.
Here's the scource. -
04-03-2019, 02:57 PMzeyloslol it was a jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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04-03-2019, 02:59 PMTheodricOh? Well, it's hard to tell around these parts given some of the requests so far...Quote:
Originally Posted by zeylos
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04-03-2019, 03:04 PMzeylosThere haven't really been that many bad requests :p (I haven't seen one in fact)Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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04-03-2019, 03:31 PMCeallachNo, people these days are becoming more confused because of that kind of propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by zeylos
Yeah, that tends to be the pattern. Very often the loudest people tend to be the craziest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabbs
You're welcome to your opinions, but you're objectively incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by jake200135
Not to as much as you think. We're basically paying SE rent. That doesn't mean we get to demand extra utilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falzer117
I'd just like to point out that this community is particularly hypocritical. While blue mage is a great example of that, I'd actually like to point out Yotsuyu. Every last one of you who is demanding that no playable race be genderlocked does so screaming either "we want it," "gender equality," or something along those lines. However, when faced with a character who was abused and literally sex-trafficked in her own nation, where that was legal, all anyone seems to care to say is, "Sucks for her."
I'm sorry, but I do not find it possible to take most people who play this game very seriously at all. -
04-03-2019, 03:33 PMzeylosSeriously if you are still living 20 years ago mentally and you are here to bash on ppl who want male viera (quote: I'm sorry, but I do not find it possible to take most people who play this game very seriously at all), just leave the threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
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04-03-2019, 03:38 PMThefatesAre you asking people to feel as much empathy for a virtual character as they feel desire for something completely unrelated? Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
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04-03-2019, 03:41 PMNalfein
Someone explain to me how the part about Yotsuyu is related to genderlock.. I don't get it at all.
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04-03-2019, 03:43 PMKelryth
https://i.postimg.cc/8crZfwF6/2019-04-03.jpg
Me and my loyal steed, Kirito -
04-03-2019, 03:43 PMBillyKaplanPosts like that really make you feel like we've stumbled down theQuote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Rabbit hole
[Sunglasses] -
04-03-2019, 03:48 PMAnselmetListen, I don't care for the sexist angel that people try to use when arguing for male vieras because in my opinion that is just pushing it but equating story elements to gender locks is just asinine. Yotsuyu's sex trafficking isn't shown in a positive light and is no way shape or form promoting rape etc. Just because people might be pushing feminism does not mean all of a sudden they cannot enjoy a narritive. Nor does it mean that they suddenly have to demand rape and anti-women plots from games, books, and tv etc. That is a really weak argument and does nothing in your argument against male vieras. We get it, you hate feminism but that does not mean everyone here is fighting for that agenda just bc they want male vieras. Nor does anyone wanting a weak, smaller, or slight male viera equate to yaaaaas queen, lets eviscerate that toxic masculinity with our feminized male vieras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
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04-03-2019, 04:13 PMCeallachQuote:
Originally Posted by zeylos
If male Viera and/or female Hrothgar being playable works from a lore perspective regardless of the players on this thread screaming about it, I don't mind. My original point was not, "These should never be playable and you're all wasting your time." It was, "Worldbuilding has to come before real life gender politics."Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselmet
The problem is not that people want things, it's why they want them. You think my argument is weak, but if people really wanted gender equality (e.g., the most cited reason for wanting male Viera and female Hrothgar to be playable), then perhaps there should have been more empathy for Yotsuyu, more anger for Hien for being rather wishy-washy about the subject, and more outrage over the Mithra and Galka in FINAL FANTASY XI, which was wildly successful in spite of having genderlocked playable races.
The fact of the matter is that this is not your game. You're not a developer. You have no real power. None of us do. We pay SE rent to enjoy a world they created, and they can cancel anyone's services at any time for any reason. Perhaps if people were more thankful for the chance to enjoy such a creation, however flawed it may be (after all, it was made by humans, so flaws are inevitable), there would be less idiocy from the community as a whole. But instead of gratitude, people demand their way no matter what, forgetting that Japan has very strict laws against transgender people and still follows traditional gender roles. And lastly, feminism is something that each person seems to have a different definition for, considering some try for the actual ideal, some drag it through the mud and call the result "feminism," and some don't even really know what it is or is supposed to be.
In short, all I really see is players bullying the devs in order to get their way, and the reasoning behind it is weak for me. I've seen several posts ask for positivity, and I'm for that. If players want to ask for something, fine, just be civil about it. I'm not even really trying to be cruel here. I can show you cruel if you prefer. I just think there are better reasons and better ways to ask for things. -
04-03-2019, 04:17 PMXebric
I understand the "Equal rights" flag is popular to wave lately, but can we stay on topic and keep the focus on inclusion / exclusion of male Viera / female Hrothgar? Political issues may sway one's opinion about the exclusion of these two but the political issues should be discussed elsewhere since it's off-topic in all honesty. I have no idea why sex-trafficking even got brought into it since that's a topic about what's in the story and what would be considered "appropriate" for a game rather than a conversation about including content that fans love and want (or hate and don't want). They're completely unrelated.
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04-03-2019, 04:24 PMCeallachWell, like I said, I don't really care either way, as long as it's for lore reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xebric
To explain, I brought up Yotsuyu and the lack of empathy from players for her because in my opinion it reveals that the players don't really care about any type of sex or gender issue unless it's already something that's personal for them. Genderlock a race you can't play as, such as the Ananta, and nobody bats an eye. But genderlock playable races, and suddenly it's extremely personal and vilified because people can't see past real life gender politics in favor of understanding that this game does not depict real life. It's a game. It's not even supposed to be that big a deal whether we can play as men or women. Heck, in the entire Legend of Zelda series, how often do the Gerudo complain about Ganondorf being their king? What if we met a Gerudo king that wasn't Ganondorf? It just seems like a giant double standard to me, and people need to realize that people with all kinds of political views play this game, and to use real life politics to insist on one's own way being implemented in a game is what's truly asinine. -
04-03-2019, 04:27 PMHalivel
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04-03-2019, 04:33 PMEmmanellain
(to avoid social issues and arguments lets just keep the tone positive and continue the exchange of ideas and feedback)
I've seen this being passed around in the JP forums, and I personally find it a very good visual representation, it has its feet in both camps and could be widely customized.
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...cf31af34c5.jpg
Scource
What do everyone think? -
04-03-2019, 04:35 PMHalivelToo short, imo. Fran was taller than female elezens, and here we see a guy who is shorter than male miqo'te (they are shortest after lalafels). It will look just ridiculous (I'm not against of making them shorter, but not this difference, really). But I like main body line, he's slim but has muscles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
Though, if SE will make them like this I will not be really against but... c'mon. We have one "WTF IS THIS!?" race already. -
04-03-2019, 04:40 PMXebricAccording to lore we currently have the male Viera tend to stick to the treetops in their woodland homes and are so good at sneaking around / hiding that even female Viera rarely see them. They show up to collect male Viera children to train them in their ways so they can then grow up to defend their homes as well. So they're numerous but not necessarily common enough that people would be tripping over them constantly, which could honestly be accomplished by having few (if any) male Viera NPCs. Canonically there is only one Warrior of Light and s/he always travels with his/her allies or other "adventurers", and there's only a handful of certain class characters (Azure Dragoon, Astrologian's, White Mages, Dark Knights, etc.) but yet if we bring players into it there are thousands of Warriors of Light, thousands of Azure Dragoons, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
As far as justifying a male Viera becoming the Warrior of Light... I think it's fully reasonable. If Hydaelyn convinces the male Viera to quest out because the world (including his home) is in danger if he does not aid Hydaelyn, then it's feasible that a male Viera might venture forth to answer this call to put the needs of his home ahead of his own desire to "stay Viera" (A Viera that leaves their home is no longer considered "Viera" in the eyes of their people.) This exiled Vieran male would be ostracized by his people and would not be allowed into his (the Viera's) home because he's "not Viera". It would even be easy to code in since the same interaction would likely happen with all race / gender combinations someone could pick for their Warrior of Light - including female Viera. "Leave! You're not Viera!"
I honestly don't see lore being an issue at all. -
04-03-2019, 04:42 PMDuskaneid be alright with itQuote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
between male miqote height or fran height preferably -
04-03-2019, 04:47 PMTheodric
Viera men being as short as Miqo'te would be disappointing. As far as I see it, if the only difference is in the shape of the ears then it'd be a very bland addition to the game. Thankfully, there appears to be a lot of appetite for tall and well-built Viera men across all of the game's regions. I was very pleased to learn that Geralt of Rivia is very popular over in Japan. He isn't overly bulky, but he's rugged and muscular. If Viera men had a physique like his and classically handsome features then I wouldn't complain at all.
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04-03-2019, 04:55 PMCeallachI'd like to use this post as an example of what I really wanted all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xebric
At the end of the day, I don't care what your political beliefs are. I have mine, you have yours, and this is a game. I'm not the first person to bring politics into this thread. I probably won't be the last. But at the end of the day, this is a game with a fantasy setting, its own worlds, and its own continuities. It has to make sense within itself. Why do you think series like The Lord of the Rings are so compelling? Worldbuilding. Worldbuilding is key. This quoted post is a great answer as to why male Viera could be playable without disrupting or disrespecting the worldbuilding the devs have already gone through. This is an answer that works, and Xebric should be proud. But to claim not having male Viera or female Hrothgar be playable is somehow homophobic or something? That's disrespectful toward the devs. That completely ignores what it means to build a world, or even to tell a story. That's why I have no respect whatsoever for that point of view.
All I really ever wanted from this thread and the Hrothgar one is thoughts like this one and a civil debate as to why that could or could not work. The problem is too many people are either unable to do so or unwilling to do so, and often for very silly reasons. -
04-03-2019, 05:06 PMEmmanellainI mean, we gotta remember most heights are adjustable with a slider, say, if this was the minimum height for the male Viera and the tallest being in line with the females or a tad higher, would that be acceptable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
I don't see how that height puts the male viera in the "wtf" camp, it shows on the chart the height for the viera would be that of the smallest hyur male height, which is a good minimal height for a male imo, he wouldn't be out-of-place-short. -
04-03-2019, 05:14 PMHalivelBig slider would be acceptable, but usually there is only 10-12cm of difference and I think it will be same for males. So let's say that if Vieras are shorter than Miqote. Miqote height is 160-170 range. Then male would be, for example, 150-160. Females will be around 190-200 most likely, because they are taller than female elezens but a little bit shorter than male au ra (accoring to Fran). 40-60 cm difference. 40-60! Just NO, please. I'm really enough with this craziness on au ra.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
If males will be 180-190 while females are 190-200 - then okay, it's reasonable. -
04-03-2019, 05:18 PMEmmanellainTo be fair bud if you comb through this thread, you will find that there's extremely few that claim the exclusion of the fem Hroth and Male Viera is homophobic or sexist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Mostly everyone agree that they'd like the genderlock lifted in the future as a baseline in this thread.
Yoshi said they'd review feedback.
and thus people are giving feedback and sharing art and ideas.
I see more people being outraged that people dare request stuff, than actual hostile claims towards the devs in this thread.
¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ -
04-03-2019, 05:22 PMEmmanellainI'd be fine with that, that would visually be pretty adorable and not look too morphed. (would also give them more of a stealthy advantage over the females)Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
Kinda wish there was more range in the sliders on all the races, but I suppose that's due to limitations rather than preference in development. -
04-03-2019, 05:27 PMAnselmetHonestly I wouldn't mind if the male Vieras could be considerably shorter than the females. We sort of have that going on with midlander male hyurs at their minimum are much smaller than female highlanders. I think that would be nice if male vieras could work the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
While there is a vocal minority that has made this a gendered political issue it does not mean this thread nor the topic of having no gender locks is a gendered issue. Most I've seen is that people see NO point in make gendered locked races when it did not exist in ffxiv after ARR launched. Sure, there is those that do say 'in the year 2019 we should not have over sexualized females and overly masculine males', but that is not the main focus of the thread. It only becomes the focus of the thread when people make it. Many of which are those who are anti male viera who come in and tell us that we shouldn't get them bc of gendered politics etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Hate to break it to ya but this outrage did exist. Not saying they were right but uh...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Excuse me, but I invest in this game by buying things on the mogstation and paying a subscription and buying merchandise. If I want to give feedback, I very well can and I will especially when I really support something. This is also an MMO that is constantly updated which means that player feedback is very important. Which means I can request and wish for things however I see fit. It is not up to you to tell me, or anyone else, otherwise. Like I get it, you don't like that we are requesting male vieras for reasons. But what do YOU personally lose from this by us requesting for male vieras? Its up to the devs what they implement. Most of us understand that, so stop assuming we don't. It will also be up to them if they take our feedback. Hardly anyone is hostile towards the devs in this thread other than those who are saying we are. I'm not sure if you read the title of the thread but uh, it says 'Thread: Male Viera as a playable character! show your support'. And we can show support any way we want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
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04-03-2019, 05:27 PMHalivelI have no idea what is adorable in this, Because that's how it gonna look:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
https://www.instagram.com/p/BaIm3GLg...d=kzf75fkg72nd
Just look, where is her head. -
04-03-2019, 05:29 PMEmmanellainI meant I agreed to your suggestion of the males being 180-190 bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
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04-03-2019, 05:32 PMHalivelah okay then. Becuase I feel "WUT" when I look at this height example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
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04-03-2019, 05:37 PMLukhaYotsuyu's fate and the story that led her there absolutely broke my heart, and will probably be a sore point for me for a long time, but I fail to see how that has anything to do with wanting male Viera added into the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceallach
Personally, my goal is just to get male Viera added, 100%, and to that end I'm open to basically any bodytype that could be considered a reasonable match to female Viera; meaning, given that female Viera are beautiful and relatively civilized in appearance, with minimal animalistic features, the males ought to be similarly attractive and civilized, with any animalistic features kept to the same level as females are able to display. The sort of nonsense that produces a huge, grizzly looking monster as the 'male counterpart' to a green, but otherwise human-looking woman needs to die out. That has nothing to do with it being 2019 and everything to do with that sort of design sense having always been in utterly poor taste.
That said, my preference leans toward making the males shorter and cuter than the females, to balance the scales (no pun intended) after Au Ra. Quite frankly, if it's okay and not 'creepy' for female Au Ra to be such tiny waifs compared to the huge and intimidating-looking males that they barely look like the same race, then the reverse is also fine and not creepy at all! Double standards are silly.
Something slim and elegant along similar lines to Elezen would be a close second choice, however! Nix the elongated effect Elezen have and give them a little bit more muscle without making them bulky, and you'd be golden in my book.
It does seem that most of the arguing over this stems from the sad fact that we have entire races restricted to one body-type, though? I wonder how feasible it would be to allow for limited body-type customization by allowing players to select, for example, a male Highlander-style physique when making a Miqo'te? All the gear in the game is already modeled to fit a male Highlander body, so that shouldn't be an issue? Sliders would cause the servers to spontaneously combust, but surely a little mix-and-matching using existing assets couldn't be too taxing?
Anyway, I have cancelled my sub, though I've got over a month of playtime left, so I'll be around for a while yet. I really don't want to lose my house or FC, so I'm hoping SE sees sense and makes a statement that they'll be adding the locked genders in the future, before my time runs out; if I lose my house it's likely to kill any interest I'd have in returning to the game. I'd even be perfectly content with a time-frame like 'some time in 5.XX' or 'at 6.0 release', as long as they 100% confirm that they plan to do it! -
04-03-2019, 05:38 PMEmmanellainTo be honest it does look hilarious, it reminds me of the picture of the mountain and his smol wife lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Halivel
https://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/av8Z1QM_700b.jpg -
04-03-2019, 05:40 PMBillyKaplanPictured: A max height Highlander and min height female Miqo'teQuote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
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04-03-2019, 05:44 PMHalivelH.E.L.P. *crying in the corner*Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmanellain
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04-03-2019, 05:49 PMAnselmetI don't know if people realize this about male Elezens bc we aren't widely played, but we are actually quite muscular. Slim waist but we do have quite a bit of muscle definition in our models.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukha
http://i68.tinypic.com/iz0v9f.png -
04-03-2019, 06:04 PMLukhaThat IS rather less noodly than I remember them being. That level of definition would be lovely for Viera.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselmet
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04-03-2019, 06:32 PMxbahax92I just hope they wont be as stiff as them, and the arms could also get more muscles. Also the small head is rather, ugh. I think there will be a bit of difference to Elezen - atleast thats what i hope about our stealthy, dextrous jungle assassins. And if they are a bit smaller, they might make actually a great body contrasts to existing races (male Miqote are rather athletic)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anselmet