Dear Square Enix! Make the game harder, not easier!

I kinda like the difficulty the way it is right now, and I don't think I'd want it easier. I am not talking about how easy it is to get gear (I was shocked to learn that AF gear is basically given to you for free, but hey, I get the cool looks), but the difficulty of the encounters is just fine in my opinion. I am talking about everything up to Ifrit HM. I don't know about after, although I know that everything after is harder.

I do like the fact that they are going to add more layers to the content, therefore giving more layers of difficulty throughout the game.

What I don't like is how grindy it is to level the other classes once you are done with the main story, and like someone else said, crafting doesn't seem very useful for end game. It's nice when you are levelling though.

I agree and also like the way it is right now. For example, Garuda normal is challenging including some of the later dungeons. I've not done HM but I guess it's quite difficult if you are a casual gamer. So far I've not experienced people leaving after the first wipe which is a good sign but people do drop out after 7-8 tries which could be considered better than average (compared to WoW).

Before having done any research I assumed that getting the relic weapon wouldn't be too hard but I see now that it will be. Me and the guys in FC will have to work extra hard!

People with a full time job, a family, and outdoor activities might only have 2-3 hours during the evening and maybe some weekends, currently used mainly to farm easy dungeons to get armor that improve your performance or fighting HM primals.
I play as much as I can, yet I find myself behind people who just have MORE TIME and already have relic and are in Coil.
Does this mean they are better players than me? Well, I'm sure some of them are, but being ahead in progression does not necessarily mean they are better and more capable. They simply have more time on their hands.
They pay for the game as much as I do (probably less, since more free time usually means no full time job, which in returns means less money to spend). I bought this game 3 times (1.0, 2.0 digital, and 2.0 Collector for the goods). I am willing to throw money to Yoshi-P.
I may be considered a casual, but I'm as much entitled as any hardcore elitist.
I am pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation.

As a Demon / Dark Souls fan I am fine with difficult games, really - I enjoy wiping a few times on Garuda, I will probably like wiping on Titan (except for lag). What bores me is the grinding required to access end-game which is clearly a time sink that discourages busy people. Getting rid of that grinding time would raise my enjoyment by quite a bit.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

Here's the thing for many of you, either its actually server lag, and its static so you can plan for it, just like very single person in 1.0 did for ifrit extreme, or its you personally lagging, so stop complaining and stop playing on a machine powered by a potato.

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lol at server lag being static. Thinking thats true and its still 'okay' makes your viewpoint rather useless since its heavily steeped in being apologetic. The fact you called server lag and 'personal' lag the same just from different sources speaks volumes of your ignorance.

How about minimal lag and the server polls player actions more often than the unusually high .3 seconds? Older generation games poll nearly 3x faster, older than WoW FYI.

I'm all for the game being harder but in the servers current states that would be financial suicide. I'm not going to embrace further difficulty in an interactive medium when my interactions aren't properly recognized in a timely fashion.

First off I will admit that my highest level character is only a 30 Arcanist. Obviously I have not done any "end game" content. At the same time I have to admit that to me an experienced MMO player the game has been mind numbingly easy.

Face it when I can solo kill a mob 4-5 levels higher than me on just about every class there is something wrong. Even the dungeons so far have been kind on "meh". No great we survived by the skin of our teeth fights to talk about yet. Well maybe tanking Lawrence the first time.

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Originally Posted by Squirrels

And i want an formula one car from 2008. theres new models anyway so why don't they just sell them for the price of a kia?

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Because they were never mass produced. Look at the price of a mass produced car from 2008 and you'll find it has dropped a LOT in price and MMOs are designed for mass consumption, not as a shiny thing only very few people have.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

You and Yoshi alike just don't get it, and apparently never will. Endgame LS's/guilds will always do what's more efficient, if you replace content every 2 months, why should we do it while its hard? We could quit for 2 months, come back, and steamroll it, which obviously isn't fun, so why play? You've made nothing worth doing, nothing has meaning to do it early. If a LS/guild does anything but what is the most efficient then you are wasting your members time and should not exist as a LS/guild, you are effectively attacking your members.

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If I could find an LS/FC like the one you describe I might be more inclined to see your point. Your argument about efficiency is a good one in principle but I am not sure I buy it. Everyone knows the new iPhone/car/PC will go down in price 6 month after its out so it's more efficient to wait and buy it later but millions rush to the store the first day. I don't think people are as logical as you give them credit for.

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Originally Posted by Aicasia

No. It's not about my pride or anything like that, it's about the fact that the content isn't even hard right now. Everyone has their limit, and it's better for everyone if they figure out where it is instead of having everything nerfed down so they don't have to. Honestly I don't see how anyone could find that anything but insulting. They're being patronized, pitied. It's basically them being told they're too bad to continue, so they're being given a major handicap.

I just can't understand the logic of wanting this. You don't need to see all the content in an MMO. You don't need to be able to do everything. It's good to realize and accept your limits.

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I'm glad you find the content easy. I am sure not everyone does although I haven't had many problems either so far up to DD. I do accept my limits, that was the crux of my argument but I foresee new endgame content being added every patch/release and not much else except housing. Look at how they've made crafting useless and because I do realize my limitations I have no interest in PvP. So if they basically focus on adding more endgame content and don't nerf the old then there will quickly be huge chunk of content that a lot of people can't do and very little they can do. I don't think that's good for the survival of the game.

I for one enjoy the present level of difficulty and would actually prefer that it be turned up one or two notches. Victory is as only as sweet as it is challenging. When WoW nerfed everything to full-blown ez-mode the game lost all amount of accomplishment associated with anything.

Please, do not limit difficult/challenging content to raid/end-game content. I very much enjoy my single-player story being difficult and challenging as well.

Sounds to they are just nerfing the fights instead of fixing the server, nice one SE ! /sigh

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Originally Posted by Baratan

I for one enjoy the present level of difficulty and would actually prefer that it be turned up one or two notches. Victory is as only as sweet as it is challenging. When WoW nerfed everything to full-blown ez-mode the game lost all amount of accomplishment associated with anything.

Please, do not limit difficult/challenging content to raid/end-game content. I very much enjoy my single-player story being difficult and challenging as well.

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When did Wow do this ? must have been after I left, last time I checked they offer standard and heroic end game raids (and no I'm not talking about the daily dungeons)

A Lot of the fights in WoW make Titan look like a cake walk.

i agree with OP plz dont bottle feed us

Yoshida has told us to take our time enjoying the game but at the same time we will play a nerfed version if we take too much time. It's a little contradictory. No wonder then that people rush to reach the endgame.

Well Ultimate Mode for Primal Fight is coming out and Hard Mode of Dungeon. So I hope those people who want the game to be hard would not be disappointed. I think Yoshida said somewhere he want to make the game have casual content and hardcore content for both the audience.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Well Ultimate Mode for Primal Fight is coming out and Hard Mode of Dungeon. So I hope those people who want the game to be hard would not be disappointed. I think Yoshida said somewhere he want to make the game have casual content and hardcore content for both the audience.

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The issue is not having easier content aside of harder content. The issue is making hard content the easy content just a few months after it's been added. That means people have to either rush through it to be able experience the original difficulty level or only do the easier version. It also lowers motivation to complete the harder versions in the first place because you can do the same thing with same rewards very soon without having to go through the trouble of harder difficulty level. Their plan doesn't serve any purpose.

I don't like the idea of reducing the difficulty as patches are released. When I play a single player game, I will often dabble for months or years, but eventually I aim to complete the game 100% on the hardest mode. I have achieved this with several games many years after I started playing them and it's very satisfying to eventually reach my goal.

Just because another player puts in more hours per week does not mean they are more skilled or capable of completing challenging content that me. If my ambition is to experience and conquer the most challenging battles the game has to offer, I feel the current plans to reduce the difficulty of content after a set time pressure me to play quickly or more frequently than I'm comfortable with (I have RL commitments, such as job and family, and other hobbies as well. I don't want to treat the game as a job).

Even if the difficulty is only reduced slightly, this would still not be my preference. Because I take my time while playing and play less frequently than some, I will always be playing easy mode.

I do understand that leaving content at "end game" difficulty after new content has been released would make it difficult for many players to progress to the new end game. I also understand that at any given time the difficulty curve of the game should gradually progress towards the final content, and that leaving ex-endgame content difficulty unchanged could result in a situation where the lvl.50 raids are equally as hard as the lvl.60, 70, 80 and 90 raids (which probably wouldn't make sense).

If the content difficulty must be reduced after a time (which I agree it probably should), please leave the hard option there so slower players don't miss their chance. It's kind of cool that the Coils of Bahamut exist now before the preceding dungeons is released (creating an awesome challenge for extreme hardcore players), but I'm also kind of sad that soon that challenge will disappear forever, and I'll never see just how hard it was or get my chance to face it at that difficulty. The game is one big time trial now!

I know the developer can not please every player, and perhaps my situation / preference is not common, but I would truly love if the hard mode could be retained in some way for ex-endgame content (as an additional option), so I've posted here to express that wish.

I hope someone can understand my feelings on this. Edit: Looking back over other posts, it seems many players do feel the same way! I hope the developers can understand our feelings on this.

A slow player does NOT necessarily = a player who wants easy mode only!

A player who wants to experience the most challenging content does NOT necessarily = a player who wants to commit many hours per week to playing with a focus on efficient progression!

Can we not create an environment where a Lvl.60 player can respect the achievements of a lvl.50 player doing ex-endgame content, rather than a situation where the lvl.50 player is considered to be too slow and playing on baby mode!

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Originally Posted by Taika

The issue is not having easier content aside of harder content. The issue is making hard content the easy content just a few months after it's been added. That means people have to either rush through it to be able experience the original difficulty level or only do the easier version. It also lowers motivation to complete the harder versions in the first place because you can do the same thing with same rewards very soon without having to go through the trouble of harder difficulty level. Their plan doesn't serve any purpose.

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Wait, so did they say the hard primal battle content will be nerf once Ultimate or harder version of it is out? Or hard content will get nerf?

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

I'm glad you find the content easy. I am sure not everyone does although I haven't had many problems either so far up to DD. I do accept my limits, that was the crux of my argument but I foresee new endgame content being added every patch/release and not much else except housing. Look at how they've made crafting useless and because I do realize my limitations I have no interest in PvP. So if they basically focus on adding more endgame content and don't nerf the old then there will quickly be huge chunk of content that a lot of people can't do and very little they can do. I don't think that's good for the survival of the game.

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That is what the purpose of catch-up content like Zul'Aman was for in WoW. I have nothing against things being more ACCESSIBLE, but they shouldn't be made EASIER for the sake of being made easier, it's all perfectly accessible with minimal investment right now. I'm fine with catchup mechanics as long as they aren't extreme. Zul'Aman was fine, badge gear wasn't. I also don't think they should have removed attunements, but that is irrelevant to my point, so I won't go there. Zul'Aman let individuals and guilds get gear middling somewhere between T5 and T6 to allow newer guilds to catch up and get into BT/Hyjal. If they couldn't progress beyond that then they didn't deserve to be in Sunwell.

It's one thing to make things more accessible so that more people have a chance to see and experience it, it's another entirely to completely ruin the mechanics of the fight so that the guy who never bothered to learn his class could get phat lewt 'just because'. Add catchup content, don't nerf existing content for all the wrong reasons.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Wait, so did they say the hard primal battle content will be nerf once Ultimate or harder version of it is out? Or hard content will get nerf?

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Their wording implies that it will be something like Blizzard's system where once the next tier is released the previous tier will receive a nerf. I don't know if it will be the same percentage nerf that Blizzard does or not, but that's what I'm getting from their reply.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Wait, so did they say the hard primal battle content will be nerf once Extreme is out? Or hard content will get nerf?

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The former, which would also include Coil of Bahamut.

Noo... -___- don't make things easier.

Why? Why... nerfing existing content.

I really think people are over reacting a little bit here. more then likely they mean relaxing entry requirements. such as being able to able to enter a dungeon with two players and two chocobo's
or running uncapped for farming purposes. or running 8 Man on 4 man dungeons for farming purposes. More then likely you'll have to run it once the regular way before the easy way open's up.

So really whats so bad about that?

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Originally Posted by Haibel

I really think people are over reacting a little bit here. more then likely they mean relaxing entry requirements. such as being able to able to enter a dungeon with two players and two chocobo's
or running uncapped for farming purposes. or running 8 Man on 4 man dungeons for farming purposes. More then likely you'll have to run it once the regular way before the easy way open's up.

So really whats so bad about that?

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yep, that's called nerfing

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

yep, that's called nerfing

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And they did the same thing in 1.0 with toto-rak and nobody had a fit about it.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Noo... -___- don't make things easier.

Why? Why... nerfing existing content.

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it's gonna nerf anyway as level cap goes up. there is a differance in nerfing and keeping things relevant.

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Originally Posted by Camate

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The real question is why are you already easing up content on a game that will have only been out for a few months at that point? Do you folks really think so little of your fan base?

I really wish Yoshida would change his prospective to be a little more in the middle between how he and Tanaka determined content difficulty. Content needs to be difficult (without the mundane extras) all the while not being nerfed and ruining content with each patch.

Nerfing content ruins content. Look what it did to CoP, a respected expansion that was demolished to a pile of rubble.

I swear I feel like Square-Enix has an annual subscription to Completelymissesthepoint.com with all the stupid decisions they make.

I'm not seeing the issue here. They're not saying they're going to nerf ALL the content so casuals/new players wear the same gear as endgame raiders. They're going to be nerfing PAST content, stuff completed by endgame raiders a few months before. What that will do is let new players not spend the same long amount of time doing past content but get through that faster so they can get to the current content. If they don't nerf the content, it'll be incredibly time-consuming to progress through all past content to get to the current content. And remember, while they will nerf PAST content, there will be CURRENT content that is still tough that you endgame raiders can be working on.

and it's not going to be next patch or 2.2 but probably sometime next year...

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

I'm not seeing the issue here. They're not saying they're going to nerf ALL the content so casuals/new players wear the same gear as endgame raiders. They're going to be nerfing PAST content, stuff completed by endgame raiders a few months before. What that will do is let new players not spend the same long amount of time doing past content but get through that faster so they can get to the current content. If they don't nerf the content, it'll be incredibly time-consuming to progress through all past content to get to the current content. And remember, while they will nerf PAST content, there will be CURRENT content that is still tough that you endgame raiders can be working on.

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The people you refer to as "you endgame raiders" is not just players that rush to end-game. As someone has written before there are people that cannot play as often but still want to enjoy the end-game as it was planned and not just a washed out version just because they were not able to play more than few hours everyday.

If Yoshida wants to help the casual players in beating some events he could just add casual content that adds tiers of equip that closes the gap a bit without "ruining" the current gameplay.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

The people you refer to as "you endgame raiders" is not just players that rush to end-game. As someone has written before there are people that cannot play as often but still want to enjoy the end-game as it was planned and not just a washed out version just because they were not able to play more than few hours everyday.

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and the nerfing wont come for months, if for months you cannot complete a 50 character and try to do the endgame soon then you will miss it out.

But the thing is that there will always be hard content, it's not like suddenly this game will become lego final fantasy.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

and the nerfing wont come for months, if for months you cannot complete a 50 character and try to do the endgame soon then you will miss it out.

But the thing is that there will always be hard content, it's not like suddenly this game will become lego final fantasy.

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I see, so if I didn't start playing from day 1 I gotta get screwed?

I see no problem with a Easy and then Hardmode version for different stuff. Worked in other MMOs and works here. Easy for the people who want to get the dungeon and mechanics down, then Hardmode for the real challenge with a couple added mechanics. IMO I'd rather see the game offer a lot of options and challenges.

I see no problem with this either, when the nerf happen we already have harder content for the hardcore players. Now the older content that was too hard for the casual players can finally do and catch up. You don't want to let them too behind or they will become frustrated and quit. I think it's a Win win situation here.

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Originally Posted by Zeila

I see no problem with a Easy and then Hardmode version for different stuff. Worked in other MMOs and works here. Easy for the people who want to get the dungeon and mechanics down, then Hardmode for the real challenge with a couple added mechanics. IMO I'd rather see the game offer a lot of options and challenges.

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Of course there is no problem with having multiple options.
The problem raises when the hard mode becomes the easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

I see no problem with this either, when the nerf happen we already have harder content for the hardcore players. Now the older content that was too hard for the casual players can finally do and catch up. You don't want to let them too behind or they will become frustrated and quit. I think it's a Win win situation here.

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You make it sound like casual players are dumber than hardcores. The only difference I see is their game time availability. I could understand if they just reduced the price required to gain equip pieces because in the end that's what takes most of the time.

Another option is to make easy modes drop items that could be exchanged for the same item dropped from the hard modes. That way "casuals" could little by little work towards it if they really feel that the "hard" mode is too hard.

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Originally Posted by Zeila

lol1000characterlimit

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Please no. I'm more than happy with eventual nerfs of content or stacking buffs (ala ICC in WoW:WotLK), but a big part of MMOs is swinging around your e-peen (read as: gear) and when that gets devalued to having slightly different colours of gear to differentiate between someone who is terrible and someone who is at the peak of progression it becomes quite disappointing. WoW handled this somewhat well with the mounts/titles but at the same time it felt like the drive for the average player to improve and get into a good/high-end guild dropped very dramatically as soon as WOTLK came out and this setup was introduced.

Don't get me wrong - everyone should be able to see the content in the game, that's what they're paying for, but having easy modes of fights (i.e. not hard modes by default) you simply wind up with an epidemic of people in "welfare epics" who have no drive to ever improve.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

I’m happy to see that you adventurers are up for a good challenge and ready to get down and dirty with some difficult content!

Of course in addition to supplementing the end-game with extreme battles and other challenging content, we will also reduce the difficulty of the existing high level content at the same time, as Yoshida has mentioned in previously during Letter from the Producer LIVE.

We're always reading and reporting your feedback, but please understand that when we introduce new content and supplement higher-level events, it allows us to ease up on earlier content. (Of course there will be things added in patch 2.1 that isn't focused on end-game.)

We’ll be announcing details about the specific content to be released in the near future, but I wanted to just remind you about the general plan.

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Please don't nerf the current content. I hope to play at my own pace. If you plan on nerfing the content, I'll be forced to abandon my pace atm, finish the current content, then continue on my pace till the patch. Honestly, I'm not sure how many patches I'll last until I feel to pause my subscription. It's too stressful just to think that I have to rush now or I'll never experience the original difficulty contents ;____;

I'm pretty sure everyone here cleared Binding Coil of Behemot!

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

I'm pretty sure everyone here cleared Binding Coil of Behemot!

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Behemoth is out there in Coerthas free, roaming and crashing servers. If the Coil of Bahamut gets nerfed, I don't see any meaning in weekly turns. It'll be incredibly dumb to do it more than once to progress the quests once it's dumbed down. In games like this one, a simple level limit increase will make the Coil easier to do once higher level than 54, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

I’m happy to see that you adventurers are up for a good challenge and ready to get down and dirty with some difficult content!

Of course in addition to supplementing the end-game with extreme battles and other challenging content, we will also reduce the difficulty of the existing high level content at the same time, as Yoshida has mentioned in previously during Letter from the Producer LIVE.

We're always reading and reporting your feedback, but please understand that when we introduce new content and supplement higher-level events, it allows us to ease up on earlier content. (Of course there will be things added in patch 2.1 that isn't focused on end-game.)

We’ll be announcing details about the specific content to be released in the near future, but I wanted to just remind you about the general plan.

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The only time older content should become easier is when an expansion is released or the level cap is raised.

Hi, I have alot of great IL90 gear and my relic weapon. Can you please now adjust the game to where nobody else can be on my level and look l33tzor!

What ever happened to feeling pride in your hard work? Don't nerf anything keep everything the same way because if you start nerfing things so people can get to end game when they actually GET to end game they will have 2x more difficult a time because they wouldn't have grown and developed from fights instead they would be sleeping through content.

I'm sick of all this entitlement bs and this "Oh we're casual so they should cater to us because we're the majority" guess what you're just as selfish as the elitists going "I beat this game in 2 days more content now or this game is stupid /quit."

Casuals stop complaining about how unfair the game is because its "too hard" grow and develop like all gamers did at one point.

"Elites" stop complaining because you decided to shovel through content as fast as you can on a new game and demand everything.

It hasn't even been a month yet come on people, give it time and leave suggestions instead of bashing everything all the time.

No nerf pls. At least not to nerfy any content before extension game out.

Have completely different servers to cater to casual and hardcore. The casuals can enjoy all of the content with each other and not have to put in as much effort. The hardcore server can have super ramped up exp scales and increased difficulty. We shouldn't mix these crowds in my opinion.