[Dev] Overtaxation of PC Hardware

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Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang

I strongly believe that many of these issues can be solved if the game is redone with DX11 capability. Many if not most of the community has DX11 capable hardware and OS.

On a side note, the manual that came with the collector's edition of the game specifically states that this game recommends a 460 gtx or greater gpu for optimal gameplay. Which generally means this game was designed with the 460gtx in mind, which is one of the earliest DX11 capable, mid-level GPU's.

The game config offers options such as Ambient Occlusion which benefits greatly from DX11. However the game is running off of DX9.

The development has recommended DX11 capable hardware but the game itself is based off of DX9. What gives?

Article on DX11:
http://gizmodo.com/#!5582218/what-di...t-means-to-you

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It's not about what API it supports it's about how powerful the card is to support the demands of the game.

Quite a few people are still stuck in DirectX 10 and only Windows 7 Supports DirectX 11...which not everyone has.

Kaedrian brings up a valid point, if DX11 is the recommended hardware then the game should be designed for DX11. Is it possible Depth of Field and AO and AA isn't really running right due to the DX version the game is running on? Is it even possible for said features to work right on DX9?

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

Quite a few people are still stuck in DirectX 10 and only Windows 7 Supports DirectX 11...which not everyone has.

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Last time we saw the PCs that the dev team runs FFXIV on, they ran winXP. That's DX9.

allz i know is, games that are made for DX10 and DX11 will still run on windows XP. that's how this game shoulda been.

The engine was built on DX9 and the PS3 GPU only supports DX9. >_> You guys are asking for the impossible and Belgian is wrong, like usual.

The game is built for DX9 but it is capable of being upgraded to DX11, as the developers wanted to make sure they can improve the game gradually as time goes on. PS3 version obviously is not going to get enhanced, but PC is a different beast altogether.

I doubt DX11 would fix all the problems but from what I've heard the optimization of DX11 is better than DX9 by miles. The game would definitely benefit from the switch.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

The game is built for DX9 but it is capable of being upgraded to DX11, as the developers wanted to make sure they can improve the game gradually as time goes on. PS3 version obviously is not going to get enhanced, but PC is a different beast altogether.

I doubt DX11 would fix all the problems but from what I've heard the optimization of DX11 is better than DX9 by miles. The game would definitely benefit from the switch.

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Could you please list a game that is natively made in DX11? Most games I have seen are DX10 with shoddy DX11 Options and implementation. Not that SE can add any of this if they are all running Widnows XP.

Can't think of any from the top of my head, why?

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

The engine was built on DX9 and the PS3 GPU only supports DX9. >_> You guys are asking for the impossible and Belgian is wrong, like usual.

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"CryEngine 2 was among the first engines to use the Direct3D 10 (DirectX 10) framework of Windows Vista, but can also run using DirectX 9, both on Vista and Windows XP.[22]"

Unreal Tournament 3 is a DX10 game. It can also be installed and run on Windows XP, and there is a PS3 version as well.

DX 11 games are not backward compatible from what I am reading, What games do to make themselves available for both version is they create modes. IE Launch Civ 5 in dx9.0c Mode or Launch Civ 5 in dx11 mode.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

"CryEngine 2 was among the first engines to use the Direct3D 10 (DirectX 10) framework of Windows Vista, but can also run using DirectX 9, both on Vista and Windows XP.[22]"

Unreal Tournament 3 is a DX10 game. It can also be installed and run on Windows XP, and there is a PS3 version as well.

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Regarding the first sentence it seems that it would automatically run in DX9 if played on XP. At least, that is what the wording alludes to and the Unreal Engine 3 was designed around DX9 so XP users could run it.

And DX11 is not better optimised yet, beteleguzah, Civ5 is a good example as are most games with DX11 features which hog system resources.

Besides, as has been pointed out before...if SE is indeed running XP then they only have one option.

Most global companies should begin the migration to Windows 7 sometime this or next year. However most graphics and video developers don't use windows based systems for development they use apple.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

The engine was built on DX9 and the PS3 GPU only supports DX9. >_> You guys are asking for the impossible and Belgian is wrong, like usual.

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DirectX is a windows API for graphics. PS3 obviously does not run on windows, so no, it does not support any DirectX version.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

However most graphics and video developers don't use windows based systems for development they use apple.

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This is no longer true. Graphics design was done mostly on a Mac because it had more tools for it, but now windows offers the same software, so it's a matter of choice in the end. And as far as video games go, it doesn't make sense to develop them on a Mac if they are going to run on a Windows machine.

As for DirectX10/11 games running on XP: yes, but they have a DX9 compatibility mode for that. WinXP does NOT support anything above version 9. There are some hacks to enable that, but they are just that, hacks. Running instable if running at all.

My comp is i7-950, 8Gb, geforce gtx480-1,5 Gb: the game was fairly playable on highest settings some time before March, but after that I see terrible fps drop in an area where many npcs are staying, also the picture tears off the screen. Needless to say that i have updated drivers. So, the game changed for the worse!! Dev team must remedy the defects asap.

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Originally Posted by Finik

My comp is i7-950, 8Gb, geforce gtx480-1,5 Gb: the game was fairly playable on highest settings some time before March, but after that I see terrible fps drop in an area where many npcs are staying, also the picture tears off the screen. Needless to say that i have updated drivers. So, the game changed for the worse!! Dev team must remedy the defects asap.

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I haven't noticed any decrease in performance, and I actually pay attention to my FPS, CPU and GPU temperatures. Not saying you are wrong, just that some analysis would be required to check the possible causes.

At some point soon after stabilizing the game, SE should start working on a DX11 execution path. In three years the game will look dated, but DX11 features like tessellation, high quality occlussion, realistic shadows, much much more complex physics with directcompute, etc. could really help the game age better, way beyond increasing resolution or antialiasing.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

I haven't noticed any decrease in performance, and I actually pay attention to my FPS, CPU and GPU temperatures. Not saying you are wrong, just that some analysis would be required to check the possible causes.

At some point soon after stabilizing the game, SE should start working on a DX11 execution path. In three years the game will look dated, but DX11 features like tessellation, high quality occlussion, realistic shadows, much much more complex physics with directcompute, etc. could really help the game age better, way beyond increasing resolution or antialiasing.

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FFXI aged fairly well and it didn't have DX11 >_> I doubt this game will look dated in three years...until the next line of consoles comes out.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

FFXI aged fairly well and it didn't have DX11 >_> I doubt this game will look dated in three years...until the next line of consoles comes out.

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Consoles? Pfft. MMORPGs are all about PC.

Anyway, XI may not be WoW-ugly but if you compare it with PC games from the year it was released it already looked like crap. Just look at the water effects, plain low res texture layers? that was dated the day it came out.

Oh well, I guess if you don't like the idea of the graphics really scaling up with the hardware there's nothing to discuss. Just keep in mind that in 2 years a midrange CPU/GPU will be running FFXIV like it's nothing, and unless they prepare the engine to support DX11 advanced features our super GPUs of the future will be idling unable to make the game look better.

Hell, I wish my knees stopped popping through my haubergeon but that's too much for the current physics engine. Meanwhile my GPU is sitting there at 55% usage, when it could be doing a incredibly more efficient and powerful directCompute physics engine.

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Originally Posted by Finik

My comp is i7-950, 8Gb, geforce gtx480-1,5 Gb: the game was fairly playable on highest settings some time before March, but after that I see terrible fps drop in an area where many npcs are staying, also the picture tears off the screen. Needless to say that i have updated drivers. So, the game changed for the worse!! Dev team must remedy the defects asap.

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You aren't the only one....game runs like ass compared to what it used to.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

And DX11 is not better optimised yet, beteleguzah, Civ5 is a good example as are most games with DX11 features which hog system resources.

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DX11 is pretty much DX10 with added stuff, so it can be hardly not optimized enough.

However, DX11 features are indeed taxing, since they are mostly advanced techniques for extra realism and visual details. They are there to make the games look prettier and enabling them will cost extra cycles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPQ5V...feature=relmfu

Again, DX11 for the most part should be considered future proofing, as most of the people don't have the hardware for it right now. But again, I do believe than they should start working on it once (and only once) the game stabilizes. That way in a year or two from now they can release an improved DX11 engine and people with the hardware can take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Consoles? Pfft. MMORPGs are all about PC.

Anyway, XI may not be WoW-ugly but if you compare it with PC games from the year it was released it already looked like crap. Just look at the water effects, plain low res texture layers? that was dated the day it came out.

Oh well, I guess if you don't like the idea of the graphics really scaling up with the hardware there's nothing to discuss. Just keep in mind that in 2 years a midrange CPU/GPU will be running FFXIV like it's nothing, and unless they prepare the engine to support DX11 advanced features our super GPUs of the future will be idling unable to make the game look better.

Hell, I wish my knees stopped popping through my haubergeon but that's too much for the current physics engine. Meanwhile my GPU is sitting there at 55% usage, when it could be doing a incredibly more efficient and powerful directCompute physics engine.

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Download the FFXI benchmark. I doubt any generation of computer will run this like it's nothing.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

Ever think about investing in a better cooler? >_>

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I think about is as often as the title screen can make something so hot. <_<

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Download the FFXI benchmark. I doubt any generation of computer will run this like it's nothing.

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In a year, with a new GPU, CPU and the game on an SSD, you won't have any problems whatsoever. >_>

You know guys, most people don't change their gaming rig every 2 years anymore.

My $800 2 years old laptop before a few years, as it can perfectly run current games (and that's including a popular recently released MMO). I'll maybe consider changing in a year or two, but we are far from the 2 years-cycle.

The game engine is still crap and we can't reduce the details in decent conditions. They'll have to work on either of those points if they want a wider public.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

and only Windows 7 Supports DirectX 11...which not everyone has.

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Incorrect.

The platform update released in 2009 introduced DX11 support in Vista.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx


If I didn't say it before: As others have said; the game should've been built on at least DX10. They're trying to do too much with DirectX 9. If developers know how, DX10/11 will vastly improve rendering performance in certain scenarios, especially due to improved multithreading support in DX11.

There seems to be too much hate on DX10/11, like Crysis. Gone are the days where enabling DX10 over DX9 (with no added features) caused a massive framerate loss.

That aside; my system runs AvP completely maxed out in DX11 @60FPS all the time. What is this about DX11 features being taxing? Granted, it's no Unigine Extreme run (of which I get 40FPS on), but it's still tessellation.

I gotta got my hands on Metro 2033.


Still working on getting my webhost to fix my website..


Edit: Finally, my website is back up. Here's the extremely outdated forum thread: http://daow.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23

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Originally Posted by DAOWAce

If I didn't say it before: As others have said; the game should've been built on at least DX10. They're trying to do too much with DirectX 9. If developers know how, DX10/11 will vastly improve rendering performance in certain scenarios, especially due to improved multithreading support in DX11.

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As long as the vast majority of people still insist on using XP, that won't happen. I'd be all for DX10, my card doesn't support DX11 though.

A big +1 from me.

Optimize please SE!

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

As long as the vast majority of people still insist on using XP, that won't happen. I'd be all for DX10, my card doesn't support DX11 though.

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Well now, I was just typing out a big ol' reply to this and I just had to misclick and have my entire post erased, so I'm just going to leave you with this nutshelled version.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=pc

Windows 7 > Vista > XP. 50%+ DX10 capable. FFXIV made with consoles in mind, not PCs. Consoles severely outdated with current and upcoming hardware, holding multi-platform games back, especially FFXIV; but then again it's made by a developer who has only made console games their entire career.

I'm angry at losing my post, yay.

Win7 has an XP mode. Really no reason to be on XP. If you like XP so much, you can run XP mode and have full Win7 capabilities and the XP experience you are familiar with.

My system is a quad-core hyper threaded machine with a current video card. CPU usage runs anywhere from 20 to 48%, typically chilling at 30%. I don't consider this game CPU intensive whatsoever. I run a 4.6GHz i7-2600k.

Now my GPU is another story. For whatever reason, the title screen (which is just white with very hard to see smoke effects at the bottom; seriously why?) can ramp the usage up to 40% and change my idle temps of 26C to 35C. In game it's at 60C constant. I'm running everything max except the drawing preferences. I leave those standard (cause for no reason one option up on any of those drops FPS a ton). Without v-sync on I can run 45-150+FPS throughout the game but there is TERRIBLE tearing. It's disgusting the v-tear in this game during cut scenes. With v-sync forced It will typically throttle 35-40FPS during intensive areas and 60FPS for everything else. I use just one GTX 560ti 1GB 950MHz.

Imma go ahead and just assume a ton of debugging is going on so this why we have most lag. But I can't think of any type of debugging that would cause this type of GPU strain.

I never bothered to see how much RAM the game used at start and after extended game play. I'll look now on.

Once the major issues have been dealt with (you know, content and making a game that's fun), I would love for SE to optimize it to run as great as it can run. Cause right now it is very taxing.

i hope they figure something out soon for this. this is the only game i have so far that can make my fans speed up.
Crysis 2 and portal 2 (both awesome looking games) don't even make my fans spin up after 4+ hours 30 mins in FFXIV and its getting hot

AMD 1090T and AMD Radeon HD 6970

Core i7 930, 6GB of RAM (soon to be 12GB) dual ATI 5750 graphics cards and this game still really chugs at times :confused:

The alt-tabbing not being fixes still drives me CRAZY, as windowed mode only uses one of the graphics cards in crossfire configuration instead.

I admit the game looks good, but the game does not look THAT good. We should not be seeing the performance hits that we are seeing with this engine. I know that its a MMO but when I can run Bioshock 2, Portal 2, and various other games at max settings and XIV I have to keep turning it down to run at any sort of smoothness there is a problem.

If this was by design I am still confused, because a LOT of people tend to play MMO's on more underpowered machines (my friends play other MMO's on their netbooks) I would have hoped that they could have made the engine scale better. I am concerned to see how the PS3 version is actually going to look if it ever comes out (not that I will be getting it) if its struggling on pretty beefy PC's its going to take come crazy optimization to get it up to proper speed.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurVerde

It's not about what API it supports it's about how powerful the card is to support the demands of the game.

Quite a few people are still stuck in DirectX 10 and only Windows 7 Supports DirectX 11...which not everyone has.

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Originally Posted by Microsoft

Overview
Microsoft DirectX is a group of technologies designed to make Windows-based computers an ideal platform for running and displaying applications rich in multimedia elements such as full-color graphics, video, 3D animation, and rich audio. DirectX includes security and performance updates, along with many new features across all technologies, which can be accessed by applications using the DirectX APIs.

System Requirements
Supported Operating Systems:Windows 7;Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1;Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 2;Windows Server 2008;Windows Vista;Windows XP Service Pack 2;Windows XP Service Pack 3

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As was stated like first couple pages of this thread. DX11 is supported on XP. Not XP and XP SP1 (as MS has dropped support for them entirely), but if you run XP you shouldn't be running with out the latest service pack anyway.

The latest DX11 as 041811: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...a-9b6652cd92a3

(Latest version gets installed when you update to latest Nvidia/AMD drivers too since they both just came out with updated drivers)

Sadly nope.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr..._or_windows_xp

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Will DirectX 11 be available for Windows Vista or Windows XP?

DirectX 11 is built into Windows 7, and it is available as an update for Windows Vista (see http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=160189). This includes the Direct3D 11 API, DirectX Graphics Infrastructure (DXGI) 1.1, 10Level9 feature levels, Windows Advanced Rasterization Platform (WARP) 10 software rendering device, Direct2D, DirectWrite, and an update to the Direct3D 10.1 API to support 10Level9 and WARP 10.

For the same reasons noted in the preceding question (Will DirectX 10 be available for Windows XP?), Direct3D 11 and related APIs are not available on Windows XP.

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Originally Posted by Cascade

i hope they figure something out soon for this. this is the only game i have so far that can make my fans speed up.
Crysis 2 and portal 2 (both awesome looking games) don't even make my fans spin up after 4+ hours 30 mins in FFXIV and its getting hot

AMD 1090T and AMD Radeon HD 6970

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I have the same Processor and my graphics card is a HD 6950 flashed to a HD 6970 now but even on the 6950 Bios it still runs FFXIV at 80°C any other game and it would be easily under 60°C, glad to see I am not the only one having cooling problems. When I play FFXIV I have to set the fan to 50% just to keep it around the 60°C mark which is annoying because it is noticeably loud.

Is it ok to let it run at 80/85°C and keep the fans on auto which is around 35% and is much quieter or should I keep them at 50% to keep it cooler?

I have GTX460-SLi and my temps dont go over 65 degrees and am running 16xQ CSAA everything maxed beside drawing quality and Ambient Occlusion.
And Am running in a 800D with their factory fans nothing more nothing less.
And if you wonder I live in Central America where temps of 20-35 degrees under a roof are normal

This latest patch introduced some awesome glitches. Now my PC will just randomly lock up and the power/reset buttons no longer function. Have to pull the fucking cord out the back of my PC. Awesome SE. Well played. Thank you for now not just heating my pc up with over used GPU but now halting and crashing the CPU and HDD.

DAMN YOU SE!

Oh wait, maybe your PC is simply crapping out and you are too dumb to realize that since others aren't having the same issue it must be simply a coincidence that it happened after yesterday's patch.

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Originally Posted by JAH

This latest patch introduced some awesome glitches. Now my PC will just randomly lock up and the power/reset buttons no longer function. Have to pull the fucking cord out the back of my PC. Awesome SE. Well played. Thank you for now not just heating my pc up with over used GPU but now halting and crashing the CPU and HDD.

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THE NEW PATCH

KILLED MY FAMILY

HIDE YO KIDS HIDE YO WIVES

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Originally Posted by Lavinia

I have GTX460-SLi and my temps dont go over 65 degrees and am running 16xQ CSAA everything maxed beside drawing quality and Ambient Occlusion.
And Am running in a 800D with their factory fans nothing more nothing less.
And if you wonder I live in Central America where temps of 20-35 degrees under a roof are normal

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you've got to be shitting me.
please download afterburner and include your temps on a picture in let's say the black shroud.
soon i'm running around there both cards boost up hard, and i'm allready giving them alot of cooling, more then they'd usually get, and my tower has a great cooling aswell, but staying below 80°C is like imposible when both cards are at around 80%~90% load.
your cards are either underpowered or their cooling fans are made of ice, because my gtx460's surely don't stay that cool x.x

My 2 470s will be locked at 92C in Afterburner while crafting in Gridania.

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Originally Posted by Lavinia

I have GTX460-SLi and my temps dont go over 65 degrees and am running 16xQ CSAA everything maxed beside drawing quality and Ambient Occlusion.
And Am running in a 800D with their factory fans nothing more nothing less.
And if you wonder I live in Central America where temps of 20-35 degrees under a roof are normal

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Afterburner or Precision screenshots or it doesn't happen.

I run a single GTX580 on nearly max settings ( 8x AA since anything higher is useless, 8 Draw Quality, no AO or DoF ), and I'm at about 70c in Uldah. Capping out at 77c in The Black Shroud. Fans at ~60%, and insane airflow through my case.