What XIV can take from XI to make it better

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Originally Posted by Biggs

No argument from me about the lower standards, although I don't think 2.0 will survive if it only manages to keep the number of hardcore gamers 1.0 has now. (although I think you are pretty much saying the same thing) As to grinding, it sounded to me like they are focusing on trying to combine it with questing. Sort of specualtion here but they have mentioned leveled dungeons in 2.0, meaning you get a quest to go to the level 40 dungeon with your party, where you then kill mobs grind style to level. While I prefer grinding as well, I think this sort of system would be ok. The biggest problem for me with that example is that it will prob be instanced, in which case you dont get the awesomeness that comes with seeing others ride by on chocobos, or seeing others in trouble and coming to help, ect. I feel like SE is simplifying many things in 2.0 to make certain things easier (that many of us have hated for years) but in the process they are killing the sense of community and open worldness that made us start playing these games in the first place.

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Very well put, I am not the best at writeing what I am thinking or meaning but you did sum most of it up. Yes I find it sad that everything will be instanced as well as I wont beable to watch some ls kill a high level mob like ifrit and the likes. What Yoshi needs to do is make all 3 types of leveling equal, because all the questing and dungeons for exp will turn off a lotta players. There is no need to go with the new aged MMO bs, all they need to do is keep things like mob grinding in open world just as effective as doing quests if not more efficent. Now lets not forget that the questing for exp is more than likely going to be slower than mob grinding, but the quest system is no different than mob grinding, its just called something else.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I'd like to think that most of the posts that seem to hate FFXI are actually just against specific ideas rather than the game itself.

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Hit the nail on the head.

I would love to see merits and level sync parties here in XIV. I find spirit bonding very tedious but I think I would enjoy it more if I could sync to friends who need to level or gain merits for doing so. Once again Id love for a more XI like party search and party flag option.

i love your idea with the harpoons Indira:
examples:
Lance = doomspike - does alot of damage, have bleed dot
Harpoon = doomspike - does modrate damage give 20sec tp gain.
Spear = doomspike - does mod dmg, reduce jump timer 5 sec per 100tp

Lance + jump = dmg w/dot
Harpoon + jump = jump ignores def
Spear + jump = jump give double dmg.

When tom said, "Gear swapping is problematic, because it's a cop-out for actual character building."
I would have to say I disagree. I would rather see the benefits added from full gear swaps attribute towards players skill and character building as right now it seems everyone's based on dps by being the fastest to spam buttons and use programs like mouse clicker to continuously repeat hit the main attacks.

In my opinion XIV already has a massive amount of potential and captivates me more then any of the mmo's out there. I wish it was a little harder, but I think only good can come out of Yoshi and the rest of the team by incorporating some of the things that made XI so wonderful. As much as I hear screams for a non xi-2 XIV I hear as many for them to make it a updated xi. Me personally I wouldn't mind a xi-2 like mmo, because nothing out there has ever captivated my attention or had me sneaking to bed at 5 am like FFXI did. Either way XI and ARR will be my mmo's and I await seeing the future of this game, the good, the bad and making it as memorable as my time in XI and the last three years of XIV.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

sounds fine to me, the game will always be better if it doesn't cater to consoles. I really don't care if they make ps3 only servers.

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This would break my heart. I'm totally turned off games where I have to use a keyboard. Many people are used to pc/keyboard games but it hurts my wrists to play more then a half hour. I will always choose games that allow me to use controllers and I know im just one in many who feels this way. Controllers should allow players to be as fast as keyboard players imo. FFXIV won't much have a choice in this matter unless they want to piss off a lot of their player base.
On a side note my favorite controller set up so far would be Tera. its amazing how many buttons you can set up on that thing. For those who love and feel "keyboard onry!" all the power to you man :) I just don't feel comfortable gaming that way.

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Originally Posted by Kyri

This would break my heart. I'm totally turned off games where I have to use a keyboard. Many people are used to pc/keyboard games but it hurts my wrists to play more then a half hour. I will always choose games that allow me to use controllers and I know im just one in many who feels this way. Controllers should allow players to be as fast as keyboard players imo. FFXIV won't much have a choice in this matter unless they want to piss off a lot of their player base.
On a side note my favorite controller set up so far would be Tera. its amazing how many buttons you can set up on that thing. For those who love and feel "keyboard onry!" all the power to you man :) I just don't feel comfortable gaming that way.

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He was being sarcastic more than likely, since everyone including SE realizes their last hope is the PS3 userbase above all.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

He was being sarcastic more than likely, since everyone including SE realizes their last hope is the PS3 userbase above all.

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I had ment to copy both the quotes there as my displeasure is more to the lack of controllers(I might actually like GW2 if I could use one) but ty Elexia :) I do realize I should probably mention I don't particularly like that XIV will go to console just because of the ways consoles eventually held xi back. However I will be buying a extra copy for my ps3 when i can ^^
Also a small side note XI's new expansion next year wont be usable for console players if I heard right so it might be interesting to check out. However I have noticed a large amount of people playing on my server are Xbox players so it may cause problems. I guess well see.

Just out west, there's still PS2 support for it in Japan. The only issue with XI was it was basically a 1999 game so with the PS2 which is significantly weaker and more limited than the PS3 hit its limits after a few years of XI expanding. They didn't really redesign the 360 version so they mainly ported XI from PS2 > PC > 360 > Vita (most likely) while XIV is being designed with each supported platform in mind rather than complete ports.

The PS3 is also upgradable unlike the PS2 so it won't really hold the game back and even if it did it would take years to do so. They even mentioned going the route of PS4 if it seems viable at the time. If you compare specs, the PS3 will do fine with an MMO in it's early life, it's only down the line when they start nearing certain limits (usually memory) is when we start getting "(console) limitations" like XI's main limitation was the low memory and them hitting the zone cap with the last expansion, which is why for Seeker's they expanded the partition XI uses.

I think the only real worry about the console version would be how separate they keep certain updates, like on XI they're doing pure PC/360 updates and have been for awhile so I can already see them focusing on PC for certain updates while keeping the game content universal.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I can see how one might think that this forum is full of anti-FFXI players, but I don't think that's the case.

Much of the 'FFXI hate' might just be former FFXI players that just don't want certain aspects of the game brought into this one - for one reason or another.

For example, I've posted opposition to bringing back Maat/Sky/Galka Tails/etc. Not because I hated them, but because they belong in FFXI, not this game.

At a cursory glance, people might look at those posts and think "Here's another FFXI hater", but FFXI is the best MMO I've played and I spent 8 years with it.

I'd like to think that most of the posts that seem to hate FFXI are actually just against specific ideas rather than the game itself.

My guess is that the true anti-FFXI people are a very small (yet somewhat vocal) minority.

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And the opposite is true for FFXI "fanboys".

A lot of the desire for FFXI stems from players that really loved parts of it and want to see some of those concepts reflected here.

Some people really like the concept of roadblocks to progression, a zone dedicated to endgame activity, or stronger variation in races. Not because they hate how this game is, but because they feel it could embellish this games overall experience.

So it's really nauseating to see posts that just brush it off as 'oh just another FFXI-2 fan. Why don't you go back and play XI you love it so much.' And pretty much ignore the entire point.

It's not like people want this game to just be XI with a higher polycount. And the people that do are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

It's not like people want this game to just be XI with a higher polycount. And the people that do are few and far between.

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I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I know a bunch of XI players personally that don't want this to become FFXI-2. You can look into earlier posts in this thread and see that people want things from XI that make absolutely no sense being in this game considering they play differently from each other.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I know a bunch of XI players personally that don't want this to become FFXI-2. You can look into earlier posts in this thread and see that people want things from XI that make absolutely no sense being in this game considering they play differently from each other.

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And some people refuse to play with the notion of certain concepts from XI coming into play, in spite of it having no negative effect on the new system.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And some people refuse to play with the notion of certain concepts from XI coming into play, in spite of it having no negative effect on the new system.

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Ignorance is the issue, and they say you can't fix stupid.

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Originally Posted by ShivenCasull

Ignorance is the issue, and they say you can't fix stupid.

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There's no need for that. Really (like most things) it all boils down to a matter of taste.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And some people refuse to play with the notion of certain concepts from XI coming into play, in spite of it having no negative effect on the new system.

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Indeed..or they'll simply say "you want FFXI-2" even if that's not the notion or "you're living in nostalgia", simply because they have personal issues with a poster and refuse to see that a lot of ideas laid forth are usually something lacking in MMOs now. Very few if at all any MMO lately failed to capture a "world" feeling like XI did, probably due to almost everything being an instance that starts once you hit end-game levels..no smooth transition into content.

How many MMOs really felt like a world just by design alone? A lot of MMOs really feel like they're trying to be something they're not just to give the illusion that it's a world you're in, XI never really tried that which is why WoTG, something pretty much everyone asked for at one point, struck such a chord with people because even though the zones were "copy/paste" it still felt like you were in a different time period and a different mood. You can say this played on Nostalgia, but by design they captured the feeling of a war and something more sinister looming very well in it's design.

Whereas in Abyssea, you didn't really feel anything. This is the one thing XI did best, the atmosphere and the sense that you can really feel like these are actual locations and not just filler walkways to your instance like current MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

There's no need for that. Really (like most things) it all boils down to a matter of taste.

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All I meant is some players would throw themselves against an idea simply because they "don't like it" and complain.

Most ideas have merit, not all complaints do. (I wasn't calling anyone out :P)

Some people prefer the wheel and stick toy like 72-96 hour pops. (I'm against this)

Tier pops is the way to go in my opinion. Tier contents like sky, sea, znm, abyssea nm, trial of the magians.
These are the type of content I want the dev team to consider.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Some people prefer the wheel and stick toy like 72-96 hour pops. (I'm against this)

Tier pops is the way to go in my opinion. Tier contents like sky, sea, znm, abyssea nm, trial of the magians.
These are the type of content I want the dev team to consider.

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Oh, you want the easy stuff everyone can get so you don't cry when you get out claimed. LOL

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Oh, you want the easy stuff everyone can get so you don't cry when you get out claimed. LOL

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Yes standing in one spot waiting for a mob to spawn and pressing provoke was hard.............While XI had a few challenging fights none of it was rly hard. It got to the point in XI where my ls was letting sams tank stuff the content was so easy.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Oh, you want the easy stuff everyone can get so you don't cry when you get out claimed. LOL

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There are better ways to make camping NM's difficult. Like developing a random pop system (where the monster can spawn in multiple locations)

Sitting around for days on end is not difficult, just time consuming.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Some people prefer the wheel and stick toy like 72-96 hour pops. (I'm against this)

Tier pops is the way to go in my opinion. Tier contents like sky, sea, znm, abyssea nm, trial of the magians.
These are the type of content I want the dev team to consider.

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Have you actually ever tried the wheel and stick toy? It's actually pretty great.
Someone mentioned it earlier, and out of pure curiosity I grabbed an old hula-hoop and a wooden dowel and just ran with it. Seriously, try it.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Oh, you want the easy stuff everyone can get so you don't cry when you get out claimed. LOL

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LMAO no I simply don't have the time to sit for 72 hours twiddling my thumbs. I've got a few nidhoggs and fefnir in my days and it really wasn't worth it for a mere short fight. Frankly speaking I think its boring so I didn't take much part in it since they often times pop out of my time zone.

Now I don't know about you, but I like to play and get things done when I log in. I'm not saying its a bad thing you enjoy doing nothing but stare at the screen for a lottery window but, if that is your kind of entertainment then I solute you.

I did way too many HNM's in xi to ever want to sit and wait three days to voke something ever again >< It never left me feeling accomplished, just aggressive or pissed off when some other ls's bot beat us.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

You mean something like Sandworm and Dark Ixion where the JPs position hack to it as soon as it spawns with mules they don't care that get banned so NA players have absolutely no chance to ever claim?

That's a poop system.

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That's not a bad system because of it's own design. It was a failure because SE allowed players to packet sniff without consequence. Blame poor game policy for that mess.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Oh, you want the easy stuff everyone can get so you don't cry when you get out claimed. LOL

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I quit right before abyssea, but when the cap was 75, none of that stuff was easy to get - and it took years before the average player would have them.

In fact back then, FFXI players complained so much about the heavy competition over NMs that most of them either had their drops replaced with Rare/Ex versions, their drops were moved to BCNM, or they were changed to triggered spawns.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

You mean something like Sandworm and Dark Ixion where the JPs position hack to it as soon as it spawns with mules they don't care if they get banned, giving NA players have absolutely no chance to ever claim?

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Uh yeah, NA players were hacking and botting in XI more than JP players were lol. There was a whole forum dedicated to 3rd party bot using circle jerks for NA/EU players.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Uh yeah, NA players were hacking and botting in XI more than JP players were lol. There was a whole forum dedicated to 3rd party bot using circle jerks for NA/EU players.

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Everyone was boting no more than the other group.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I quit right before abyssea, but when the cap was 75, none of that stuff was easy to get - and it took years before it was common to see.

In fact back then, FFXI players complained so much about the heavy competition over NMs that most of them either had their drops replaced with Rare/Ex versions, their drops were moved to BCNM, or were changed to triggered spawns.

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Those were the cutsie little baby diaper changing items like Emp pin and leaping boots.

We're talking about big boy items here. D ring, Ridill, E body.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Those were the cutsie little baby diaper changing items like Emp pin and leaping boots.

We're talking about big boy items here. D ring, Ridill, E body.

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All those are triggered pop now.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Those were the cutsie little baby diaper changing items like Emp pin and leaping boots.

We're talking about big boy items here. D ring, Ridill, E body.

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None of those items was hard to get. If you wanna talk big boy items where was your haste sash from AV w/o using k-club burn. I'll wait for your answer tho.

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Originally Posted by Firon

None of those items was hard to get. If you wanna talk big boy items where was your haste sash from AV w/o using k-club burn. I'll wait for your answer tho.

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That's forced popped baby NM, no competition. That's for lower tier linkshells that can't handle the pressure.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

All those are triggered pop now.

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Yeah because the game is 10 years old and bad.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

All those are triggered pop now.

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Yep.

/10char

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Yeah you just go kill it. Nothing to it. No competition.

For example, what if the super bowl was just one team casually walking the football to one side of the field over and over. Someone like you would probably enjoy watching that. Can't take the heat.

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competition is boring though when I have to stay up all night to kill a single mob which is basically tank and spank and get crappy loot out of it... I mean after the first kill it loses its WOW factor.. HNMs were boring as stale piss and no one did them because people had monopolies on them so no one else could do them o.o and my little pony friend in the time out corner with you or I'm restricting your tv and pc right lil buddy o.o/

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

Yeah you just go kill it. Nothing to it. No competition.

For example, what if the super bowl was just one team casually walking the football to one side of the field over and over. Someone like you would probably enjoy watching that. Can't take the heat.

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Football is closer to PVP so your analogy is bad.

If you want real competition, let people pvp for NM spawns. Trust me, it's a lot more intense than XI claim wars.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i thought the thread was things to make ffxiv better...

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Fighting system
More possibility to chat with other people during fight
basically you want slower ff11 style combat, no thank you


No action bar that is kind of abused right now.
tab menu combat optimized for controllers, no thank you

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1)Different opinion...
But without this you have a copy of GW/WOW combat style...where if you are in party with different language people you have very little possibility to communicate (you can't write or you miss an entire fight)(you can't use Team Speak or other stuff because it's difficult with random encountered people)

2) Why FFXI system work pretty well (seems to me) and mage can have access to a complete magic list at the same time
Again Action bar is another copy from GW/WOW.

Why we need a system similar to other games when Square with her first MMO make a completly different but functional one?

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Originally Posted by Zephir

1)Different opinion...
But without this you have a copy of GW/WOW combat style...where if you are in party with different language people you have very little possibility to communicate (you can't write or you miss an entire fight)(you can't use Team Speak or other stuff because it's difficult with random encountered people)

2) Why FFXI system work pretty well (seems to me) and mage can have access to a complete magic list at the same time
Again Action bar is another copy from GW/WOW.

Why we need a system similar to other games when Square with her first MMO make a completly different but functional one?

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1.cept in WoW they restrict you to your language servers which is what FFXIV is going to do and everyone is expected to know the language which makes that point irrelevant...

2. FFXIs combat UI... i played for 9 years and hated combat and the UI >.> and combat was kind of stale (i wish i had an action bar because the list was god awful to sort through with hundreds of spells)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The .1 second competition Is silly argument though, sports maintain the factor muuuuuch longer.

Claiming monsters is not the place for competition.

Besides pop content you could also have monster hunter competitions, rewards based on best performing team.

Anyway open world shouldn't use "claiming" as a source of competition.

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You don't want to compete, therefore you think it shouldn't be in the game.

The other side to this is nothing in this game is rare. If you can beat the content you can have the items. It's just boring, like the game currently is. Something comes out, everyone who is good beats and never does it again.

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Originally Posted by PinkiePie

You don't want to compete, therefore you think it shouldn't be in the game.

The other side to this is nothing in this game is rare. If you can beat the content you can have the items. It's just boring, like the game currently is. Something comes out, everyone who is good beats and never does it again.

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Never said I don't like competition. I said a .1 second claim war is a crappy idea of competition. If the purpose is to compete then make it a better competition.

And nothing is rare, it just takes time. You can create gaps of time through many systems.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla

1.cept in WoW they restrict you to your language servers which is what FFXIV is going to do and everyone is expected to know the language which makes that point irrelevant...

2. FFXIs combat UI... i played for 9 years and hated combat and the UI >.> and combat was kind of stale (i wish i had an action bar because the list was god awful to sort through with hundreds of spells)

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Oh OK.

I hate action bar....

Thread: What XIV can take from XI to make it better

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Unrelated, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Musketeer --> Red Mage would be awesome.

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Fits with the original RDM in XI, had access to x-bows and some guns lol.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Fits with the original RDM in XI, had access to x-bows and some guns lol.

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No shit? I don't remember that but red Mage was one of my later jobs.

Still.. Was this before it came to NA?