Whether or not any of the rest has any merit, this is a grave accusation. I trust you've some evidence to substantiate this claim? Else I'd find it strange that one would attack the 'class' of another player or entity while effectively engaging in baseless slander themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delsus
Order of the Blue Garter: Open Recruitment Season
Printable View
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08-08-2012, 11:39 PMIkkenoe
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08-08-2012, 11:48 PMDelsusGo to their website, go to forums (not forums new) and applications to BG, then to Applications to Order of the Blue Garter post, scroll down to their questions and you will see this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikkenoe
The only third party tools I can think of that don't affect game balance (ie not hacks) are fraps and parsers, posting it all under "3rd party tools" is very wide from parsers and fraps, all the way through to bots and hacks, also the only linkshells in both FFXI and FFXIV I have seen that have this kind of question are HNMLS that are known botters.Quote:
If we asked you to use a 3rd party tool, would you do it? Why or why not?
BG also have a reputation for using bots and hacks from FFXI, and none of this "hardly any of us are from FFXI" comment, you have the name, the name is what gives you the reputation not members. Need any more proof that there is a high possibility this is what they do? Their silence on the matter also shows they have something to hide -
08-08-2012, 11:58 PMThePatriarch
Blame all this madness on Isladar for not reaping the whorenado
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08-08-2012, 11:58 PMLaughlyn
Just out of the blue, this has got to be the most boring thread on the forum.
Im quite fammiliar with the BG name since ages back from FFXI.
Maybe it's time you guys go 2.0 aswell, maybe even change your LS name.
Just a suggestion... -
08-08-2012, 11:59 PMZozor
Not to respond to anything particular in this thread:
I would encourage everyone who is unfamiliar with how the BG core players clear new content to watch them do it live on one of the feeds that we stream. After the live stream has ended I would encourage everyone to watch the demonstration videos, which remain available forever.
Although I have never been in the core group of players getting a world first on new content I have watched them in the live stream, have listened to them in vent, and am very proud of their accomplishments and my affiliation with them. -
08-09-2012, 12:00 AMdaemian
Not every linkshell suits everyone. Some of us like social, some others like small or big guilds, some others are casual and this is a hardcore (focused on results) one.
How they do things and what is wrong or right is just subject to perception... a personal point of view... so I don't understand why attacking other's options will make lead to something productive. You won't change them so it's pointless.
Just let them recruit what they need, the way they want. I'm pretty sure there are other players out there that will fit in here.
Tolerance should start in oneself... -
08-09-2012, 12:02 AMThePatriarchAbsolute truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by daemian
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08-09-2012, 12:03 AMMolly_MillionsI disagree, it's thoroughly entertaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughlyn
I knew nothing of their rep from XI until this thread came up. Regardless of who it is, watching a big name LS get raked through the coals is like watching a train wreck in progress. It's hard to look away.
It could just as easily be my shell, so I certainly sympathize, but that doesn't make it any less entertaining. -
08-09-2012, 12:07 AMIkkenoe
I quit a while ago, but have recently been trying to keep up with Square's efforts to rejuvenate the game. Even I've heard of a windower app with several plugins for the XIV client. Those are third party tools. Log/data parsers are third party tools. Recording software like fraps is a third party tool. One could even argue something like Photoshop is a third party tool.
A question is evidence of nothing. It does not even signify intent. For all you know, it could be weeding out applicants who assume it is referring to bots or hacks and have no problem employing them. You're taking what you see and inventing your own context, based on your own assumptions.
One can argue that it would be natural for some people to arrive at those assumptions, and that much is true. But again- this proves nothing. And why should they answer to your unsubstantiated accusations when it clearly will do nothing to change your mind?
As for the XI version of the LS hacking, do you have evidence of that? Whether it was considered to be widely accepted public knowledge or not, that isn't proof. And if you do have proof of the XI linkshell hacking, how does this automatically implicate the XIV linkshell? Whether there is any association or not, it's a stretch. A particular incarnation of the Patriots football franchise cheated. Does this mean all Patriots teams from now until the end of time are cheaters- especially without proof?
Whether you draw the association or not, whether you have difficulty shaking that association or not- it is fallacious. To take it one step further and post it publicly, attempting to posit that it is fact- slanderous. -
08-09-2012, 12:18 AMDelsusI have already said that the term 3rd party tools is very wide, and yes it could just mean fraps, and a parser, Windower with plugins is a hack, it alters game balance, whether it shows the distance from a target, it means people using it know for example when they are in combo distance of a mob, this few seconds to reposition and get tp will lower dps and it could cause a wipe. It shows you instantly when you are out of range of AoEs but still in healing, AA, combo range etc where as people not using it may have to reposition, and ultimately get killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikkenoe
When I see this kind of question in an application it instantly brings memories of FFXI linkshells that do bot and have this question.
Also the FFXI BG site publicly posted hacks for everyone to use, these had to have been used and tested who would test them, perhaps BG themselves, they have a reputation, which through the FFXI players they brought to FFXIV, the only way to get rid of this reputation is to rename the LS. If someone comes in here and proves BG do not bot/hack and never will I will I will take back these allegations, but silence is just proving their guilt because these allegations can tarnish their LS, its within their interests to prover their innocence. -
08-09-2012, 12:25 AMfusionalQuote:
Originally Posted by Zozor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozor
>.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozor
<.<
>.>
http://www.roboticbees.com/wp-conten...do-it-live.jpg -
08-09-2012, 12:28 AMJennestia
Yes a lot of stigma comes from the simple fact if you hop over the BG forums FFXI section, you see open discussion and support for Clipper and Plugins that give you an advantage in end-game -- while someone said "we have to use windower for basic ffxi features" I don't remember ever playing an MMO that allowed me to run through walls and use a 'fill mode' type system as a standard or even accepted additional feature unless it was a bug.
We're not talking about Drawdistance or Tparty, so I guess the line between "shady 3rd party" and "standard 3rd party" has been heavily blurred in recent years. Given the benefit of the doubt, Windows itself would be considered 3rd party program -- that's why it carries a certain weight when you ask a question like that. -
08-09-2012, 12:39 AMRoosterAgathoswholeheartedly disagree. Its fascinating to see the communities feelings on endgames LS's. At some points the tread has veered off in a odd direction (3rd party app's) but what i particularly found interesting was peoples perceptions of the app process and the "catch-22" issue. I for one hope more people comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laughlyn
side note. LMAO at the "do it live"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khbel2p7ou0 -
08-09-2012, 01:07 AMChurchill
http://www.bluegartr.com/ has never hosted hacks for FFXI, lol.
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08-09-2012, 01:09 AMJennestiahttp://www.bluegartr.com/forums/53-F...e-New-StandardQuote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
Openly talks about using them however. -
08-09-2012, 01:10 AMYucieLet's take this silly quote, and look at it a moment.. especially the part about being subject to perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by daemian
This may not be the case when it comes to FFXIV.. however..
Would you be willing to say that using bots, hacks, and anything to get an unfair advantage over other linkshells, especially in HNM, which is also against ToS and can get you sued, or banned, merely 'subject to perception' and not actually wrong? Well, it IS wrong. The question in the app seems suspicious enough, but having the namesake of the former Bahamut LS was going to get them this kind of flak from the very outset of this endeavor.
Also, why the hell is this thread still on the front page? -
08-09-2012, 01:17 AMChurchillSo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
10chars -
08-09-2012, 01:25 AMChardrizardSpellcast triplecate your salvage drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill
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08-09-2012, 01:32 AMAsterBarniverehttp://www.bluegartr.com/threads/110...July-28-2012)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
forgot that too..
and these:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/111....9.2-Released?
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109...resources-XML? -
08-09-2012, 01:37 AMTwentytwo
We do not use or encourage bot use, the bot craze in 11 happened -after- we moved to WoW. The question on the app is referring to parsers/fraps/xsplit etc. Discussion over.
We also do not run, or have anything to do w/ any 11 bot discussion that may or may not happen on bluegartr.com We have been separated from them as a guild for years now and use our own site. -
08-09-2012, 01:39 AMMolly_MillionsI think the problem here is guilt by association. Sorry man, you're not gonna get out from under the bus that easily. It certainly is open season in this thread, I'll let you guess who the hunted is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
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08-09-2012, 01:39 AMLaughlynDiscussion over?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
In a public forum, not to mention the "General Discussion" section?
Wise posting decision. -
08-09-2012, 01:40 AMChardrizardLIES YOU DUPES DARKLIGHTS :|Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
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08-09-2012, 01:53 AMMolly_Millions
So what went wrong here?
1. Semi-infalmitory 'about us' page
2. Same name as an XI LS known for botting (guilt by association)
3. posting a recruiting thread in general chat (on a forum filled with trolls waiting to pounce)
4. publicly viewable applications
5. tendency to rub wins/firsts/etc in people's faces
I think the saying "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" applies here.
imo, this is a lesson in what not to do when recruiting. -
08-09-2012, 01:54 AMTwentytwoYou're right, it won't be that easy, but it was a completly different linkshell with different members that botted, and many years ago, that does not represent us. People will continue to troll, but I'm making a statement for our XIV LS that is 100% accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-09-2012, 01:59 AMAshTSGuilt by association of what? A website? A popular gaming website in which a multitude of things are discussed? Hardly. As was mentioned before, if you want to call the 2012 New England Patriots "cheaters" for what they did in 2001, then I can't stop you. If you want to scream and shout and accuse and browbeat us or anyone in this thread over it, I can't stop you.Quote:
I think the problem here is guilt by association. Sorry man, you're not gonna get out from under the bus that easily. It certainly is open season in this thread, I'll let you guess who the hunted is.
All we can do is simply point out what the truth is. We don't condone botting or hacking or whatever you want to call it. We can control what other people do in this game about as well as you or anyone else can. Which is to say we can't.
Again, we are not affiliated with www.bluegartr.com, and that is a website that transcends any one linkshell or guild for that matter. You can say you want to associate us with them all you want. Doesn't make it any less false.
Fact of the matter is, we are as strong as ever. We have a plethora of great applications over the last few days and we are going to be in great shape headed into 2.0. We appreciate all of the interest that's been shown and it really flatters us that so many would find something as simple as a guild name incite this much discussion. -
08-09-2012, 02:00 AMTwentytwo
On another note
Just wanted to thank everyone for the apps they've submitted so far. We'll be in contact soon and set something up in game, or to hang out on vent. Keep them coming we'll enjoy meeting all the interested people. -
08-09-2012, 02:01 AMAsterBarnivere
http://www.bluegarterls.com/home-mainmenu-1/topic?id=8
Totally innocent guys... please try harder.. -
08-09-2012, 02:01 AMMolly_MillionsIt's gonna be an uphill battle I'm afraid. As an LS leader myself, I feel for you. Especially since you're obviously looking for members. Correcting what you can out of the things I listed would be a good start. Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
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08-09-2012, 02:05 AMTwentytwoThanks, we will be making some changes, we were unaware that people could be offended by the About Us page. "Phrasing!" as Archer would say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
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08-09-2012, 02:05 AMJeronlmo
Obviously they "MUST" mean bots... i mean... theres so many things to outclaim people on... so many HNM's out there... wait... what?
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08-09-2012, 02:05 AMMolly_MillionsAll I can tell you is what I see as an outsider looking in. Don't get mad. I've got no interest in joining a shell besides my own, and am not interested in a server hop.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshTS
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08-09-2012, 02:07 AMJennestiaAs said, what you guys had in mind won't be taken the same exact way as someone looking in from the outside. Usually only like minded people (example: Yuri) would get what you were stating in it, but the general playerbase? Not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
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08-09-2012, 02:07 AMTwentytwoQuote:
Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere
The parser is not a hack btw, it reads the battle log and does some math, simple stuff.
It merely polls data, much like the program that made your signature. -
08-09-2012, 02:10 AMMolly_MillionsSeriously. A parser is the best way to improve your game-play. IMO, we should all be using one. There's also nothing wrong with a windower, if that's all it does either. We all know SE screwed the pooch by not allowing alt-tab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
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08-09-2012, 02:10 AMAsterBarnivereDoesn't change the fact that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Twentytwo
A: It's a third party tool
and
B: It's against SE's TOS which you guys continually break -
08-09-2012, 02:11 AMmysterytaruThe attitude present in this post and the attitude presented in your sig image, is the exact reason for the length of this thread. Bravo, good sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by AshTS
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08-09-2012, 02:13 AMMolly_MillionsA is true, but I'm not so sure that B is. It seems like a grey area. The TOS states that 3rd party apps that give players an advantage are not allowed, a parser doesn't really give you an advantage, it merely shows that you could be doing better, or how you stand against other players in your party.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere
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08-09-2012, 02:13 AMLaughlynoooh he changed it ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterytaru
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08-09-2012, 02:13 AMTwentytwoSo is you signature, reading game data outside the game. omgomgomgQuote:
Originally Posted by AsterBarnivere