Tanks holding fights hostage in Roulettes

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Originally Posted by MalakRevan

Yeah because they're too busy nerfing dps sustain lmao.
https://i.imgur.com/ThBCZ4a.png

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That was a buff. The cure potency became a DoT for 9 seconds so it's effectively a 600 potency heal. Also, 10% damage reduction for 9 seconds.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It is because the needs of the entire team need to be considered and not just the desires of one or two people

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This is why Party Finders exist, you set expectations that everyone would be in agreement to not waste everyone's time.
Duty roulettes (except mentor roulette?) are there to fill bodies needed to clear content. Almost everyone there just wants their daily exp/tome/gil grind and want to be done with it.
You want to teach new players? that's fine, just don't expect that the others would have the same objective as you.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

If someone is new, they most likely need the practice to learn how to not die on the mechanics.

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Learning how not to die to the mechanics can be done by making a learning PF. (There's also an option to go in with NPCs)
Heck almost every mechanic in Valigarmanda is used and reused alot with some even used during solo duties.
Four Arrows converging on one player? stack, Big red glowy circle on tank? tank buster, serpentine boss doing a weird circling thing? inside safe spot.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

[]If there are a lot of wipes and the tank doesn't want to help instruct or be there supporting them figuring it out (which they're not required to do) then they can take a penalty and let the party get in a tank who will be what the party need

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If there are a lot of wipes, why not just [Vote Abandon] instead of having someone who queued for dailies leave and get a penalty.
If you are really inclined to help newbies, you'd reach out after the duty has been abandoned and teach them with a premade party that has the same goal.

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

This is why Party Finders exist, you set expectations that everyone would be in agreement to not waste everyone's time.
Duty roulettes (except mentor roulette?) are there to fill bodies needed to clear content. Almost everyone there just wants their daily exp/tome/gil grind and want to be done with it.
You want to teach new players? that's fine, just don't expect that the others would have the same objective as you.


Learning how not to die to the mechanics can be done by making a learning PF. (There's also an option to go in with NPCs)
Heck almost every mechanic in Valigarmanda is used and reused alot with some even used during solo duties.
Four Arrows converging on one player? stack, Big red glowy circle on tank? tank buster, serpentine boss doing a weird circling thing? inside safe spot.


If there are a lot of wipes, why not just [Vote Abandon] instead of having someone who queued for dailies leave and get a penalty.
If you are really inclined to help newbies, you'd reach out after the duty has been abandoned and teach them with a premade party that has the same goal.

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Honey this is duty finder not savage

Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Honey this is duty finder not savage

Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal

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Exactly, so why would you want the dreaded tank soloers to have to join your learning party for it through DF?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Not saying I disagree, but at the core the measurable or objective goal is to clear the content. Generally speaking that is the end goal the one goal everyone that goes into content can expect as a baseline. Everything else you stated can vary from person-to-person. While you cannot imagine why someone would want to try and see how far they can go while their party is dead, clearly some people do like doing that. Just as some people would rather the tank just reset the fight. Yes, we share a community but people only need to considerate of others gameplay experience within the scope of the content and the rules. Clearly no rule was broken, so having said expectation is fair, but it is not a guaranteed. As you suggest people who wish to solo content, or do whatever should do it on their own time, the same could be said for those that do not wish to gamble on a tank wasting 20 min of their time. End of the day the whole join a premade or FC can also be said to those that are annoyed when other players don't take their experience or time into account.

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I guess the only option at this point is to DC and take a break. Somebody wants to watch you for 15mins, but it's not me.

The second DPS can't use Tanks as a mob shopping cart and the sustain is used not how they want.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Exactly, so why would you want the dreaded tank soloers to have to join your learning party for it through DF?

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Because wiping once or twice because you don’t know the fight doesn’t constitute a learning party

I’d love to see you pull this shtick in a savage learning party, everyone else dies to mechanics they don’t understand and just go “sorry guys guess I’m more talented than you you’ll have to wait till the encounter kills me”, you’d be out on your ass in 4 seconds flat

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Honey this is duty finder not savage

Nobody is going to join a learning party for vali normal

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Exactly my point. With Duty Finder you are bound to take what you get.
Don't complain when some people in the party don't consent to wiping and redoing the whole fight when they are just there to complete their dailies.
Yes, I get it's nice and feels good to teach first time players but there would be a point when some would just say screw it and to get it over with.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Because wiping once or twice because you don’t know the fight doesn’t constitute a learning party

I’d love to see you pull this shtick in a savage learning party, everyone else dies to mechanics they don’t understand and just go “sorry guys guess I’m more talented than you you’ll have to wait till the encounter kills me”, you’d be out on your ass in 4 seconds flat

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We're just talking about normals here. Where does this thing about savage coming from?

Circling back to OP. the screenshot provided is too blurry besides the LB3, party comp[WAR/DRK/RPR/VPR/MCH/SMN(?)/WHM/SCH(?)] and the timer to make anything clear besides something doesn't match up

1) Vali normal is only sixty minutes
2) Vali screenshot posted shows 41mins left
3) OP claims they sat there dead for 30mins

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Originally Posted by TojiSuzuhara

decided to just keep going and make us sit and watch and the encounter ended up taking almost 30 minutes.

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4) Vali was killed with 37 minutes left

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Originally Posted by TojiSuzuhara

ithis was right after adds phase where i believe the boss had around 50-60% left and the clock was at 37 min left when they finally killed it

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OP misrepresented and painted the two tanks in a bad light.

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

Exactly my point. With Duty Finder you are bound to take what you get.
Don't complain when some people in the party don't consent to wiping and redoing the whole fight when they are just there to complete their dailies.
Yes, I get it's nice and feels good to teach first time players but there would be a point when some would just say screw it and to get it over with.




We're just talking about normals here. Where does this thing about savage coming from?

Circling back to OP. the screenshot provided is too blurry besides the LB3, party comp[WAR/DRK/RPR/VPR/MCH/SMN(?)/WHM/SCH(?)] and the timer to make anything clear besides something doesn't match up

1) Vali normal is only sixty minutes
2) Vali screenshot posted shows 41mins left
3) OP claims they sat there dead for 30mins

4) Vali was killed with 37 minutes left


OP misrepresented and painted the two tanks in a bad light.

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This isn’t even about wanting to teach people. This is simply just the fact that it’s rude and shouldn’t be allowed for tanks to just ignore the rest of the party and solo the boss because they arbitrarily decide they don’t want to give others a chance when you are only surviving because you are a tank

The comment about savage wasn’t directed to you. It was simply “you shouldn’t be expected to treat normal content like savage in PF with learning parties just to avoid getting a tank who decides they want to solo the boss because they have 500% more EHP than anyone else

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Originally Posted by Plumerian_Ariadust

This is why Party Finders exist, you set expectations that everyone would be in agreement to not waste everyone's time.
Duty roulettes (except mentor roulette?) are there to fill bodies needed to clear content. Almost everyone there just wants their daily exp/tome/gil grind and want to be done with it.

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If your argument is people are just there to complete their dailies then why are you advocating for tanks to tack time onto the instance when the party could most likely reset and clear within a fraction of that time? 7 other people want to get their exp/tome/gil grind done but they're trapped because they can't leave in combat. Maybe the solution is letting people dead in combat just leave and then the tank can have their fun alone.

Most of the tanks that survive just survive on the basis of them having the largest health pool, not skill, and also sustain through the fight's damage because their 123 has built in healing. To say "just don't die" for other jobs that are far far squishier and have no sustain is so silly, because you can easily die as a non tank in ways that aren't your own fault

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I guess the only option at this point is to DC and take a break. Somebody wants to watch you for 15mins, but it's not me.

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That is within your right, you are not obligated to sit and watch the tank spend 15 min to kill a boss, just like the tank is not obligated to reset the fight.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

That is within your right, you are not obligated to sit and watch the tank spend 15 min to kill a boss, just like the tank is not obligated to reset the fight.

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So following along from this logic it’s my right to just run off the edge of the map at the start of the fight with the expectation the tank won’t want to reset and so will kill the boss for me?

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

That is within your right, you are not obligated to sit and watch the tank spend 15 min to kill a boss, just like the tank is not obligated to reset the fight.

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Ah what a choice:

Sit there actively feeling your braincells die while watching a guy get his rocks off on soloing a boss for 15m or take a 30m penalty.

Which would you choose?

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Ah what a choice:

Sit there actively feeling your braincells die while watching a guy get his rocks off on soloing a boss for 15m or take a 30m penalty.

Which would you choose?

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that person and most of the other people who play tank that enjoy this sort of thing have never actually played tank in an encounter that requires them to actually help their party members to clear.

Hey, you should hope to get me as a tank, I suck and would probably die to mechanics anyway!

I noticed this too. From now on everytime I see a tank do this I will report them. It's just not fair.

My opinion is simply... its a roulette. You don't get to pick and choose the strategy or your party members. People que in for different reasons and may not have patience to wait for someone to learn a fight. If you don't like it, you can attempt to kick them and if the kick fails then deal with it and que with pre-mades in future. You may not like them locking u out of the fight and finishing it solo but it seems like they dont want their time being wasted.

Not to sh1t on good or bad players. Im just saying that PUG's aren't an ideal way of completing content with specific goals. Pre-mades are better for that cause you gotta deal with what u get in duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

My opinion is simply... its a roulette. You don't get to pick and choose the strategy or your party members. People que in for different reasons and may not have patience to wait for someone to learn a fight. If you don't like it, you can attempt to kick them and if the kick fails then deal with it and que with pre-mades in future. You may not like them locking u out of the fight and finishing it solo but it seems like they dont want their time being wasted.

Not to sh1t on good or bad players. Im just saying that PUG's aren't an ideal way of completing content with specific goals. Pre-mades are better for that cause you gotta deal with what u get in duty finder.

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This concept only works if we had any power to deny someone the right to solo the boss if the party doesn’t want it

If there was a vote force wipe the other party members could instigate on the offending tank if they want to wipe then they should have that choice

The whole problem with this tank soloing business is you are literally held hostage, you can’t leave, you can’t kick them, you can’t do anything besides wait for them or fully quit the game

This is the thing, the posters on here crying make it out like every single Tank does this when if you're lucky you'll see it once a month.

Healers have so much healing now that in normal modes or dungeons there is absolutely no excuse for letting your teammates die outside of one shot mechanics or getting hit with several things at once. Rez is at 40s with a swiftcast. What has possibly gone so wrong that you have 5-7 dead teammates in your party and somehow the blame is now on the Tank?

DPS, melee especially have a lot of self sustain now also and they can survive for several minutes also without a healer via potions/bloodbath/2nd Wind and other abilities. They also should not be dying to basic mechanics but no one says anything to them when they die.

Instead of flaming your Tanks for not dying, try asking your healers and DPS what went wrong and try to correct it instead. Did they use their self sustain? Did they use their mitigation? Most of the time you'll find the answer is no. You rarely see Addle or Feint up for raidwides, even when they know the damage will kill them, but they will absolutely be the first ones in chat to start complaining. When's the last time most of you used potions?

No one is holding you hostage, you just make yourself victims. It's not the same thing. If you don't like it leave and be done with it. You'll find hostages in real life just don't have the option to just leave when they don't like something, so stop calling it something it's not. Do the mechanics properly and you'll increase your chances of surviving. It's not a hard game, new stuff will trip you up and that's absolutely fine but you should never be dying to simple mechanics you were shown in ARR/HW. Catch yourselves on. How are you not embarrassed to show your faces on here complaining like 5 year olds. Shocking stuff.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

This concept only works if we had any power to deny someone the right to solo the boss if the party doesn’t want it

If there was a vote force wipe the other party members could instigate on the offending tank if they want to wipe then they should have that choice

The whole problem with this tank soloing business is you are literally held hostage, you can’t leave, you can’t kick them, you can’t do anything besides wait for them or fully quit the game

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I get you. But my answer is just do pre-mades if you don't want to run into that or play the tank yourself. If you don't want to, thats fine but my opinion remains the same. Its a pug so u just gotta deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Asako

No one is holding you hostage, you just make yourself victims. It's not the same thing. If you don't like it leave and be done with it. You'll find hostages in real life just don't have the option to just leave when they don't like something, so stop calling it something it's not.

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Can't leave whilst in combat.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Can't leave whilst in combat.

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Can leave if you revive, which is what you need to do anyway if everyone except the tank is dead.

... You didn't forget about that, did you?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So following along from this logic it’s my right to just run off the edge of the map at the start of the fight with the expectation the tank won’t want to reset and so will kill the boss for me?

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Yeah that is within your right, but in your that case if you refuse to accept the rez or something the group could report you for willfully not playing, now if you took the raise and kept doing it. Meh, outside of you saying something in chat or having an established pattern doubt even a GM would say what you are doing is inherently wrong since you could just say you are a bad player for whatever reason.

It is DF you run into all types, you are free to do what you want if it falls within the rules and the party does not remove you. Though the difference between the tank is they are actively playing, while in your case you are actively not playing which I do think is against the ToS if it can be proven but I do get that such a thing is hard to prove just like it would be hard to prove the tank is finishing the fight to troll their group.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

Ah what a choice:

Sit there actively feeling your braincells die while watching a guy get his rocks off on soloing a boss for 15m or take a 30m penalty.

Which would you choose?

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Would either watch something else while I wait, or I eat the timer just depends on what I am feeling in the moment.

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Originally Posted by localareanetwork

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that person and most of the other people who play tank that enjoy this sort of thing have never actually played tank in an encounter that requires them to actually help their party members to clear.

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How do you define help? Like being in a static and stuff? Yeah I am in one. If I don't want to deal with the random nature of DF I would queue with friends instead of complain about the people you get in DF.

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Originally Posted by Asako

snip

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Lol, lmao even.

Tank: *sticks nose up in air* "Yes you simpletons, talk amongst yourselves on the ground while I, THE TANK HERO, go to fight the boss" *skips into puddle*

See, the things is that this is a party game. No one should have this much of a grand mindset. We are generally here to have fun and if mistake happen, then oh well. I am happy when I get to work along side my tank, but seriously that kind of mindset can go kick rocks.

I do hope you have a good day though! Oh! And Asako is a really pretty name, "Morning child" is the meaning and it is lovely.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The whole problem with this tank soloing business is you are literally held hostage, you can’t leave, you can’t kick them, you can’t do anything besides wait for them or fully quit the game

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You could also
1) Pull out your phone, post [SE pls. These tanks are holding us hostages, send help] on twitter, and watch the shitstorm
OR
2) Adopt a dont care attitude and browse cat memes while someone is having their hero moment.

I'm going to reveal the secret cheat code to avoid this.
People were mad and tried to stop me, but I won't budge!

Are you ready?
Here it comes:

/fc Hey I'm going to run [insert here], anyone wanna join?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Can leave if you revive, which is what you need to do anyway if everyone except the tank is dead.

... You didn't forget about that, did you?

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Can't revive and leave the group when the tank refuses to wipe.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Can't revive and leave the group when the tank refuses to wipe.

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The second you die a window pops up that asks you if you want to return to the start of a dungeon. It only doesn't work if it's a trial or normal raid.

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Originally Posted by TBerry

I'm going to reveal the secret cheat code to avoid this.
People were mad and tried to stop me, but I won't budge!

Are you ready?
Here it comes:

/fc Hey I'm going to run [insert here], anyone wanna join?

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- Sorry im doing [insert here] right now.
- We are farming Mount/Fate/Hunt
- Im' doing my roulette, maybe later
- too busy crafting
- Im' not in the mood

Etc... etc...

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The second you die a window pops up that asks you if you want to return to the start of a dungeon. It only doesn't work if it's a trial or normal raid.

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You still cannot leave the instance as a party member is in combat

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Originally Posted by TBerry

The second you die a window pops up that asks you if you want to return to the start of a dungeon. It only doesn't work if it's a trial or normal raid.

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It not working in trials and normal raids is what is being talked about.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It not working in trials and normal raids is what is being talked about.

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Vote abandon?

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Vote abandon?

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Can’t do that in combat either

If the core of the issue is having periods of inability to play during a duty, then by that same logic it could be argued that healers are guilty of the same thing if they dont rez you the instant you die.

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Originally Posted by Falvern

If the core of the issue is having periods of inability to play during a duty, then by that same logic it could be argued that healers are guilty of the same thing if they dont rez you the instant you die.

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No, it's two different matter.
We're not RDM, we can't rez 4 to 5 person in 10S flat.

And the priority goes to keep all the party alive, rez can wait the next refresh of swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Heartnet

My opinion is simply... its a roulette. You don't get to pick and choose the strategy or your party members. People que in for different reasons and may not have patience to wait for someone to learn a fight. If you don't like it, you can attempt to kick them and if the kick fails then deal with it and que with pre-mades in future. You may not like them locking u out of the fight and finishing it solo but it seems like they dont want their time being wasted.

Not to sh1t on good or bad players. Im just saying that PUG's aren't an ideal way of completing content with specific goals. Pre-mades are better for that cause you gotta deal with what u get in duty finder.

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It wastes more time soloing a boss as a tank than resetting

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Originally Posted by Falvern

If the core of the issue is having periods of inability to play during a duty, then by that same logic it could be argued that healers are guilty of the same thing if they dont rez you the instant you die.

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it’s not always the healers. Sometimes the tanks (and occasionally dps) are at fault for the death of the healers (cleave, not stacking). Sometimes it’s a sequence where healers are on CD to and they have to move or provide extra healing for the remainder of the group due to an incoming mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You still cannot leave the instance as a party member is in combat

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Please fix fhis SE and ty.

Because we could allow the problem to persist and just keep seeing threads like this more and more over time or we could just implement the trivial line of code and fix it

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You still cannot leave the instance as a party member is in combat

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Not true. The other day while leveling DRG, the PLD was holding everyone hostage on the first boss of Amaurot(SGE died around the 70% mark, DNC died shortly after, and then I just followed the meteors around to get myself killed). PLD kept going while we waited outside the arena for him to die and reset...both the SGE and DNC were using skills thinking they were helping the tank somehow. After 5 minutes I just left the instance.