Just discontinued subscription due to Wuk and increased wokeness across SE corp.

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Yeaaaaaah.... About that.... i'm European so....We have a bit more than only 2 party in my country.... and we don't have a black and white tunnel vision on politics.

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My reply to you still stands and is not affected by your above statements. I in no way referenced North American politics and every country has to organize their society in some form. You have my deepest sympathies for originating from a cesspit of Western collectivist thought.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

You have the same angry baby energy as your character does.

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Damn you, now I wanna watch Ciderspider.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

SE is responsible for injecting politics by basing an entire expansion around a character voiced by someone with severe mental illness, according to the DSM.

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Damn, too bad about all of the voice actors out there struggling with literally any illness in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Guess this guy thinks actors with incredibly common conditions like depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress disorder, ADHD, autism, and literally any other condition mentioned in the book, shouldn't get jobs as voice actors.

Get real, Wuk Lamat wasn't good but that's not the actor's fault, it's the writer team's fault. Now you're bringing ableism into it? Weirdo behavior.

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Originally Posted by Petroglyph

It's not gonna get less woke, and if they don't can Hiroi, it's not gonna get better than AO3 tier storytelling either, because all language versions are upset. So if that prospective future isn't up to anyone's taste, hey, I gotta respect anyone that sticks to their guns and leaves. Especially USians. Company and product boycotts only last so long there when the product is one of convenience—at least, they don't last long when you don't have plenty of alternatives. One beer is easily replaced with another, and lucky for OP, one game is just as easily replaced. WoW is probably not in the cards, but I bet ESO will give you what you want. Conan Exiles, maybe, but I'm not sure if it's any good or not. I quit WoW because Shadowlands blew, and the company full chocked with outed sex pests and I haven't gone back, no matter how much "better" some of my friends say it is. May tou find your new home, OP, wherever it is.

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ESO has gay and trans NPCs. They're more inclusive than FFXIV by a long shot. OP should stay tf away from that community too, we don't want him there.

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Originally Posted by 1313

Let's pretend your opinion on this matters to the corporate suits who control things.
you think that your opinion on other peoples opinions is going to change how the devs perceive and utilize feedback? you've just cancelled yourself.

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You're a funny one :D I'll leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

SE is responsible for injecting politics by basing an entire expansion around a character voiced by someone with severe mental illness, according to the DSM. SE even modified the Wuk Lamat character model to not use a female Hrothgar/Xbr'aal model, just like it did for Zero in the previous expansion. Wuk even uses a male weapon pose.

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Being trans hasn't been in the DSM for 12 years. If you're gonna go whine and moan at least actually know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by victoriate

Being trans hasn't been in the DSM for 12 years. If you're gonna go whine and moan at least actually know what you're talking about.

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The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) defines gender dysphoria (GD) as clinically significant distress or impairment caused by a mismatch between a person's gender identity and their sex assigned at birth. The diagnosis was introduced in 2013 to replace the previous term, gender identity disorder (GID), in an effort to remove stigma.

The most current version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the DSM-5-TR, which was published in 2022 by the American Psychiatric Association (APA). The DSM-5-TR is a revision of the 2013 DSM-5 and includes updates and changes based on developments in mental health practice since 2013. It's considered the preferred and most accurate version of the DSM.

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Originally Posted by 1313

I still need someone to properly explain this whole 'woke' concept to me.

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Wokeness in a simple term to most people is political caving.Things that may be done to appeal to the political correct crowd, but not the crowd in general. So, let's use as an example, you own a company and put out an ad for hires. Let's assume you hired purely off of meritocracy, and for whatever reason, your workforce ended up being 90-95% white and asian. There is a crowd that would complain by default and say flat out that you need more diversity representation because it's not a good look politically to have your company dominated that heavily by that racial composition. They will say that diversity makes your workplace better and give you statistics that support them, and ask you to hire people that didn't meet your initial expectation.

This can apply to company hirings, this can apply to game features like male and female body representation (female and male stereotypes), script writing like women's rights and misogyny, lgbtq+ representation inside of games, handling/discussing political themes in the game the correct way instead of what you personally want to do or what you think might be the most interesting/give the best shock value. The general concept is normally uplifting minority races and demographics or some other oppressed viewpoint to be more included and represented, but this is often done at the detriment to what the majority demographic asks for or wants. For most people, there has been a shift over the years where this extra representation is flooding everywhere. So imagine as a hetero, cis male that enjoys male on female content, if everytime you saw a commercial, everytime you turned on netflix and watched a movie, every time you played a game, it was always male on male content or female or female content. Some would eventually get irritated and feel that that minority in society is now dominating all of their media and showing things they don't want to see. This is a semi-bad example, but imagine it being like someone with average/normal sexual interests that logs into a porn site and all of sudden, they start getting forcefed deep end extreme kinks/bdsm/taboo kinks often. There's a large demographic that is going to be like "I don't care what you do in your bedroom, but I don't want to see that by default everytime I turn on my screen".

There are times where inclusion and representation is done well and feels natural, but there are other times where it feels forced to a lot of people. Characters that ppl historically had placed as hetero now being written as lgbtq, race swaps in movies of certain characters, where significant lgbtq romance is shown on screen and doesn't add anything to the story, or when a game diverges from visual stereotypes of a gender mid-way through their series.

There is a constant fight in media and everything has shifted into a question of "why are you not the same as older media".

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Originally Posted by CuteBucket

Get real, Wuk Lamat wasn't good but that's not the actor's fault, it's the writer team's fault.

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The English VA from what illustrative snippets I heard is not just a character problem, there is a severe problem with the voice acting, the questions that came to my mind were not 'How do I protect this person' or 'How do I vilify others for disliking the performance', nor 'How can I attack this person for their bad performance?' they were 'Who allowed it to be this bad?', 'if the VA was this bad, how did they get through casting? And if not then how was the voice director allowed to fudge the job so thoroughly?' and 'Why was it allowed to be that bad?'

People have various answers for those questions, some rooted in political beliefs, others in speculation, the actual team have the answers in truth but we'll probably never know them.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

My reply to you still stands and is not affected by your above statements. I in no way referenced North American politics and every country has to organize their society in some form. You have my deepest sympathies for originating from a cesspit of Western collectivist thought.

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But i'm saying i don't live in USA.

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Originally Posted by 1313

I just hope you aren't misinterpreting my post.

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I did at first, (that was an impressive wall of text). That's why I deleted the post. What I stated still applies, though. None of us here are more important than another, no one has a right to be offended, and free speech should trump just about everything, so long as there is not a threat, direct or indirect, that is identifiable, immediate, and actionable.

Again, my apologies for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by Karious

"Noooo! Someone has a different viewpoint or way of life than me! This is unacceptable and I must harass them for living differently than me!"
Be more inclusive. Be better. Educate yourself on how diverse people are.

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Nope. Not how this works and is why your thread went the way it did. You and others enabled it, it got out of control and now it's locked as it should be.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Nope. Not how this works and is why your thread went the way it did. You and others enabled it, it got out of control and now it's locked as it should be.

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It got locked because you and your friends wouldn't stop showing up and calling everyone transphobes.

Because you enabled it.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Nope. Not how this works and is why your thread went the way it did. You and others enabled it, it got out of control and now it's locked as it should be.

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You mean people got super mad, threw transphobe labels, and called others “vile pieces of human flesh” over 2 pronouns used out of 800 words post that criticized not the VA’s identity, but poor VA performance itself.

Everyone has a reason to do something. I'm not going to go argue with the OP if they want to state why they are leaving before they go and can't respond on the forums anymore. However, think the better reason to stop paying a sub is that there is really nothing new to do that isn't "unfun" grinding and doing the exact same thing over and over again. The big weakness to FFXIV design is there is zero variance and they rely completely on building unique visuals and fights to carry the game. Crafters don't really even get that much as the levels are there to simply prevent them from just outright making new gear and equipping it.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Everyone has a reason to do something. I'm not going to go argue with the OP if they want to state why they are leaving before they go and can't respond on the forums anymore. However, think the better reason to stop paying a sub is that there is really nothing new to do that isn't "unfun" grinding and doing the exact same thing over and over again. The big weakness to FFXIV design is there is zero variance and they rely completely on building unique visuals and fights to carry the game. Crafters don't really even get that much as the levels are there to simply prevent them from just outright making new gear and equipping it.

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Meh--anyone who's played MMOs for a modicum of time knows that the overwhelming majority of MMO endgame is just a gear treadmill where you complete the most current raid content and "play Barbie" by outfitting your character with the most optimal gearset you can. People who call MMOs repetitive probably aren't fans of the core element of the genre. Speaking as someone who has spent endless hours grinding on console JRPGS and "killing rats" in MMOs, I'd venture to say that most of us like MMOs for just that fact; we enjoy variations on the same central gameplay loop. Whether it be BBS games (I preferred LORD and Usurper), Meridian 59, UO, EQ, WOW, or FFXIV, every one of them could be considered "boring" if played ad nauseam, but they also employ reliable systems where progression is guaranteed so long as you engage with the core gameplay loop. That's one reason why I absolutely detest the move from a JRPG system to an action focus in the mainline FF games.

/Ending reply before the git gud comments; I'm old and set in my ways--I know kids these days generally don't have attention spans for JRPGs with all the TikTok brainrot, which has led to their decline.

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Originally Posted by Karious

That's not very inclusive of you. You need to respect the diversity of their viewpoint.

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I'll be inclusive of people who aren't bigots/racists/sexists/etc. People who unironically use "woke" tend to be from that sphere. And since the main poster is all butthurt over a boy having "too feminine a face" it seems likely that they might be like that. Or they don't actually know what "woke" means which may also be the case.

bigots/racists/sexists/etc don't get inclusion or respect from me. And since you're really trying hard to defend them by getting us to "respect" their hateful views, you're not looking much better.

The tags for this thread are literally "transparent bait"

Good stuff, outing the transphobes that are jumping in to agree.

Anyway, someone without Dawntrail purchased saying they aren't playing the game because of "wokeness" isn't someone to miss or mourn.

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Originally Posted by TKOtheKDR

SE is responsible for injecting politics by basing an entire expansion around a character voiced by someone with severe mental illness, according to the DSM. SE even modified the Wuk Lamat character model to not use a female Hrothgar/Xbr'aal model, just like it did for Zero in the previous expansion. Wuk even uses a male weapon pose.

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Oh hey another topic where people are claiming that calling people transphobes is the problem.

And then a post like this comes along which is blatantly and explicitly transphobic.

The clown show continues!

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

"This is my opinion and it's the right one, if you disagree you're a bigot !"

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It's funny that you're trying to make this sound like it's absurd and wildly extreme-

But it's not, you actually tried to satirize the generally accepted understanding of "If you insult and show disdain to a person for something innocuous like how they identify or the sex of their consenting adult partners, you're a bigot."

That you even tried really shows your sheer lack of self-awareness.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/n-HR8RFne...ng-popcorn.gif

This thread has not been a disappointment so far.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

You mean people got super mad, threw transphobe labels, and called others “vile pieces of human flesh” over 2 pronouns used out of 800 words post that criticized not the VA’s identity, but poor VA performance itself.

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Yeah nah, that's a flat out lie. The thread may have started off as criticising performance, but then it became an echo-chamber attacking the VA herself (and some were blatantly bigoted in their posts, which were rightfully removed and even temporarily banned). Hate the performance, not the actor and all that jazz. Stalking their social media hoping to find something to "justify" attacking someone is just being... a word I'm not sure I can use on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah nah, that's a flat out lie. The thread may have started off as criticising performance, but then it became an echo-chamber attacking the VA herself (and some were blatantly bigoted in their posts, which were rightfully removed and even temporarily banned). Hate the performance, not the actor and all that jazz. Stalking their social media hoping to find something to "justify" attacking someone is just being... a word I'm not sure I can use on the forums.

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The word you're looking for is "weirdo."

Doing that sort of stuff is weirdo behavior.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah nah, that's a flat out lie. The thread may have started off as criticising performance, but then it became an echo-chamber attacking the VA herself (and some were blatantly bigoted in their posts, which were rightfully removed and even temporarily banned). Hate the performance, not the actor and all that jazz. Stalking their social media hoping to find something to "justify" attacking someone is just being... a word I'm not sure I can use on the forums.

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Apparently holding someone, who's not shy to attack others and use derogatroy terms on social media, accountable for their past actions is stalking and weird.

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Originally Posted by CerusSerenade

The word you're looking for is "weirdo."

Doing that sort of stuff is weirdo behavior.

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Oooh, I like that!

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Apparently holding someone, who's not shy to attack others and use derogatroy terms on social media, accountable for their past actions is stalking and weird.

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So you don't deny you were lying. Good to know!

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Originally Posted by victoriate

If no one would care if you tell people that you are straight then why do you care when people say they're gay? Surely you would also just not care that they said it, right?

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Cause i'm forced to care they are gay? They make it their identity over everything else, it's what's demanded I pay attention to. Sorry, I understand the "who cares" is a bit misleading. I mean as in "Being straight doesn't make you special, so why are you talking about it?" I was always told being gay doesn't mean someone should be treated any different than any other person. Though that's kind of what's being demanded, being treated special. Sure, have it come up in casual conversation later, but not right off the rip. Plus, how awkward is it to try to make conversation with someone when that's THE FIRST THING they want to talk about? I can go "Oh nice, you have a boyfriend/girlfriend?" then suddenly, the focus shifts off trying to get to know them, and it's about their partner, not them.

Nothing wrong with being gay, just can we not have that be the most important and first topic of conversation?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah nah, that's a flat out lie. The thread may have started off as criticising performance, but then it became an echo-chamber attacking the VA herself (and some were blatantly bigoted in their posts, which were rightfully removed and even temporarily banned). Hate the performance, not the actor and all that jazz. Stalking their social media hoping to find something to "justify" attacking someone is just being... a word I'm not sure I can use on the forums.

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Don't worry bae, you and I can get back to flirting and chatting it up when I make my new thread. I know you won't be able to stay away. :)

This is peak american bigots brainrot, thank you for the entertainment

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

So the Nazis were woke? .....

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No, but the extremist woke ideology use tactics that are similar to the ones used by Facists in the past. As a wise man once said ''Political Correctness is Fascism Pretending to be Manners''

Damn, this thread devolved into pure transphobia and armchair psychology lmao. Kudos to "the Nazis were woke", that's really profound thought and logic here. Historians are in shambles.
(Honestly good thing that there's a limit to posts per day, thought it was 20 tho)

A few notes :
- The DSM also classified homosexuality and being left-handed as mental illnesses back then. Do not try and use a tool you don't comprehend and made a cursory Google search for, you're doing more harm than anything to people and to yourself.
- Side note, but same goes for IQ, it's not a measure of one's intelligence and a worthless metric taken as it is (always good to know, so here you go)
- These forums are truly where reason comes to die, it's Twitter on steroïds
- People have to remember that bigotry doesn't start at saying "I hate this category of people"
- OP is clearly a right-wing troll and everyone, including me, that answered this thread is a dummy and should log out. The only alternative is him being an old dude actively liking Babylon Bee, which makes it even worse.

As for politics : lmao.
As an aside : FF games have always had politics in the forefront of their stories. You've just been radicalized over the years, congrats, the problem is you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
You can shut down this thread

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Originally Posted by TBerry

Calling women "female" already says everything.

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I dont blame people saying female. The word ‘woman’ has been poisoned. I am a female who uses female and doesn’t find anything wrong with it.

Also the dictionary states that a women is a adult female being which is correct.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

No, but the extremist woke ideology use tactics that are similar to the ones used by Facists in the past. As a wise man once said ''Political Correctness is Fascism Pretending to be Manners''

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He also said:

Most comedians, myself included, pick on people who have some power and position and abuse it, but [Andrew Dice Clay], he picks on foreigners, homosexuals and women - who are all underdogs in this society."

"And it makes me wonder what he's thinking, because he says all these things and his audience responds because he plays to their prejudices. But he's Jewish and doesn't he know that these same people who hate gays and foreigners and women have Jews somewhere on their list?"

Trans women are women,
Trans men are men,
Gender isn't sex
Hard and soft sciences back this up. That's the facts. Your feelings that it's gross and icky and the world is a lot weirder and gayer than it used to be (which is true) is an emotional reaction, but not one based on current medicine or psychology. The first thing they burned was Hirschfield's Institute and it'd be good to remember what the pipeline from Weimar to Wehrmacht actually was.

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Originally Posted by Petroglyph

He also said:

Most comedians, myself included, pick on people who have some power and position and abuse it, but [Andrew Dice Clay], he picks on foreigners, homosexuals and women - who are all underdogs in this society."

"And it makes me wonder what he's thinking, because he says all these things and his audience responds because he plays to their prejudices. But he's Jewish and doesn't he know that these same people who hate gays and foreigners and women have Jews somewhere on their list?"

Trans women are women,
Trans men are men,
Gender isn't sex
Hard and soft sciences back this up. That's the facts. Your feelings that it's gross and icky and the world is a lot weirder and gayer than it used to be (which is true) is an emotional reaction, but not one based on current medicine or psychology. The first thing they burned was Hirschfield's Institute and it'd be good to remember what the pipeline from Weimar to Wehrmacht actually was.

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Your post reads like an Orwellian hellscape.

"War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength."

Baby's first pattern recognition

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Your post reads like an Orwellian hellscape.

"War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength."

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That's a reach if I ever saw one

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Your post reads like an Orwellian hellscape.

"War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength."

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This is why education and not skipping school are important, i wouldn't wish this lack of reading comprehension to anyone.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Your post reads like an Orwellian hellscape.

"War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength."

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https://www.infernux.no/img/obi.gif

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Originally Posted by Smallbunny

This is why education and not skipping school are important, i wouldn't wish this lack of reading comprehension to anyone.

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Why? So we can all become whiny, insufferable activists who openly spout contradiction as scientific fact and actively ruin every single community they infiltrate? This nonsense did not exist in-game when I first started playing, because people were there to play the damn game. Now everyone has to put LGBT tags in their bios and advertise every static as inclusive, as if who you're attracted to has any bearing on whether or not you can clear the content; and on top of that, the LGBT activists are claiming ownership of franchises and fandoms that never belonged to them in the first place. FFXIV is for the players and the people who pay a monthly subscription fee to be there, it's not a platform to sit on your soapbox and scream real-world ideology - and that applies to both sides of the argument. Both sides need to shut up and play the game, and stop actively ruining the experience for everyone who does just want to sit back, immerse themselves in a fictional setting and play for a few hours. Activists talk a bit game about human decency and inclusion, but can't stop their crusade for long enough to realise that you're negatively impacting the game for the vast majority of players who simply don't care for ideology in their video games. I want good stories from my games, I want good value for money and I don't want political talking points rammed down my throat by either the developer OR the playerbase.

But I'm sure that makes me a bigot, or a Nazi or some such slur seeing as I'm more right-wing than Chairman Mao and just want to play video games.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Why? So we can all become whiny, insufferable activists who openly spout contradiction as scientific fact and actively ruin every single community they infiltrate? This nonsense did not exist in-game when I first started playing, because people were there to play the damn game. Now everyone has to put LGBT tags in their bios and advertise every static as inclusive, as if who you're attracted to has any bearing on whether or not you can clear the content; and on top of that, the LGBT activists are claiming ownership of franchises and fandoms that never belonged to them in the first place. FFXIV is for the players and the people who pay a monthly subscription fee to be there, it's not a platform to sit on your soapbox and scream real-world ideology - and that applies to both sides of the argument. Both sides need to shut up and play the game, and stop actively ruining the experience for everyone who does just want to sit back, immerse themselves in a fictional setting and play for a few hours. Activists talk a bit game about human decency and inclusion, but can't stop their crusade for long enough to realise that you're negatively impacting the game for the vast majority of players who simply don't care for ideology in their video games. I want good stories from my games, I want good value for money and I don't want political talking points rammed down my throat by either the developer OR the playerbase.

But I'm sure that makes me a bigot, or a Nazi or some such slur seeing as I'm more right-wing than Chairman Mao and just want to play video games.

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"This nonsense did not exist in-game when I first started playing, because people were there to play the damn game."

You were a kid, and you miss being a kid, the time where all that stuff flew over your head. It did exist.

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Originally Posted by SlickPaws

Why? So we can all become whiny, insufferable activists who openly spout contradiction as scientific fact and actively ruin every single community they infiltrate? This nonsense did not exist in-game when I first started playing, because people were there to play the damn game. Now everyone has to put LGBT tags in their bios and advertise every static as inclusive, as if who you're attracted to has any bearing on whether or not you can clear the content; and on top of that, the LGBT activists are claiming ownership of franchises and fandoms that never belonged to them in the first place. FFXIV is for the players and the people who pay a monthly subscription fee to be there, it's not a platform to sit on your soapbox and scream real-world ideology - and that applies to both sides of the argument. Both sides need to shut up and play the game, and stop actively ruining the experience for everyone who does just want to sit back, immerse themselves in a fictional setting and play for a few hours. Activists talk a bit game about human decency and inclusion, but can't stop their crusade for long enough to realise that you're negatively impacting the game for the vast majority of players who simply don't care for ideology in their video games. I want good stories from my games, I want good value for money and I don't want political talking points rammed down my throat by either the developer OR the playerbase.

But I'm sure that makes me a bigot, or a Nazi or some such slur seeing as I'm more right-wing than Chairman Mao and just want to play video games.

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No, because then we end up like your last comment using terms without their meaning and you can't apply them to actual discussions since you don't actually understand them.

People have to "advertise every static as inclusive" because LGBT people in gaming often get harassed just for existing just like in real life. The fact that you can't even grasp this concept makes you look sheltered and lacking in empathy.

There's no "both sides" or "playing the devil's advocate" bullshit, because one of your so called "sides" just want to live without people harassing them.

Players who actually "don't care" wouldn't spend their energy crying on a internet forum about a made up scenario in their head.