7.0 copium has got to stop

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsurayu

Tongue-in-cheek nature aside, I actually agree with their sentiment.

The homogenization of healers is starting to go down a dangerous path, but the actual ease of playing the class isn't really an issue. Healers need to be an approachable class for newer players as they level. If the experience of healer becomes too boring through casual content then challenge yourself or play something else. The whole design should not be changed to suit the whims of a few people who complain that they are bored playing it. That's selfish.

---

Every other role has one or more complex classes that challenge people who don’t want to play a class who’s ceiling is also it’s floor, now I don’t like the idea of sacrificing WHM at the altar of the casuals but why can’t healers have even one healer that actually has a skill ceiling (AST doesn’t count)

And why does healing “have” to be approachable more than any other role, if people just leave healer because it’s not fun to play you just end up starving yourself or one of the three essential roles

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Every other role has one or more complex classes that challenge people who don’t want to play a class who’s ceiling is also it’s floor, now I don’t like the idea of sacrificing WHM at the altar of the casuals but why can’t healers have even one healer that actually has a skill ceiling (AST doesn’t count)

And why does healing “have” to be approachable more than any other role, if people just leave healer because it’s not fun to play you just end up starving yourself or one of the three essential roles

---

Healer isn't more approachable going by numbers. The issue is the fact that healing is just a bad leftover from prior MMO designs where people had to firehose heal others to keep things going. Also pretty sure healers just stopped wanting to be healers during Abyssos savage due to the same reasons that are now plaguing Anabesios. Personally I preferred having things the way they were in shadowbringers more so than what they did in this expansion to make things "tighter".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colt47

Healer isn't more approachable going by numbers. The issue is the fact that healing is just a bad leftover from prior MMO designs where people had to firehose heal others to keep things going. Also pretty sure healers just stopped wanting to be healers during Abyssos savage due to the same reasons that are now plaguing Anabesios. Personally I preferred having things the way they were in shadowbringers more so than what they did in this expansion to make things "tighter".

---

I mean healer shortage wasn’t a thing when the healers were actually interesting to play

You can’t nerf healers enjoyment into the floor then use the resulting lack of healers to say that healers need to stay easy and boring to attract new people to healers because nobody wants to play healers

And let’s just say for the sake of argument that the entirety of 14’s healer shortage problems comes from the fact that MMO healing has always been a less popular role and not because of modern healing design, that still doesn’t mean all 4 healers have to be a watered down version of 4.0 WHM, who wants to enter a role that has no skill progression

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean healer shortage wasn’t a thing when the healers were actually interesting to play

You can’t nerf healers enjoyment into the floor then use the resulting lack of healers to say that healers need to stay easy and boring to attract new people to healers because nobody wants to play healers

And let’s just say for the sake of argument that the entirety of 14’s healer shortage problems comes from the fact that MMO healing has always been a less popular role and not because of modern healing design, that still doesn’t mean all 4 healers have to be a watered down version of 4.0 WHM, who wants to enter a role that has no skill progression

---

healer was always in shortage lol, it's just even worse now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koros

healer was always in shortage lol, it's just even worse now

---

Healers and tanks will always be in shortage compared to dps, it's the most popular role in pretty much every mmo ever.

But alienating the already few players who did enjoy the non-dps roles in an attempt to make them appealing to players who simply don't want to play them is a new level of galaxy brain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean healer shortage wasn’t a thing when the healers were actually interesting to play

You can’t nerf healers enjoyment into the floor then use the resulting lack of healers to say that healers need to stay easy and boring to attract new people to healers because nobody wants to play healers

And let’s just say for the sake of argument that the entirety of 14’s healer shortage problems comes from the fact that MMO healing has always been a less popular role and not because of modern healing design, that still doesn’t mean all 4 healers have to be a watered down version of 4.0 WHM, who wants to enter a role that has no skill progression

---

I don't even think it was to make healers more approachable. It was probably because by making mitigation a requirement and completely rendering what little good Tenacity could do moot in the process, there's even less room to let healers do anything else besides mit and heal. No, all healers get to do is throw two spells over and over while having to pay attention to the exact moment they got to use some mitigation or bubble shield and remove any kind of freedom for "lazy man" builds, like actually choosing tenacity because you don't want to waste time clicking mitigations and have more time to do other things.

just don't play the game if you don't like it m8. Plenty of people do, some don't. But to say its failing is the real copium here.

Sounds to me more like a select few people wanting it to fail, rather than it actually being even close to failing. Personally, I'm hyped for Dawntrail. If it's more of the same, then it's more of the same handcrafted world, compelling stories and engaging fights. What's not to like about that? Sure, it's going to follow a familiar formula. It's Final Fantasy. It's been following a similar formula for 26 years, and we still love it. There is literally no way to please every single person who plays the game, that much is true. But let's not pretend that it's failing just because a vocal minority are getting itchy over familiarity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Sounds to me more like a select few people wanting it to fail, rather than it actually being even close to failing. Personally, I'm hyped for Dawntrail. If it's more of the same, then it's more of the same handcrafted world, compelling stories and engaging fights. What's not to like about that? Sure, it's going to follow a familiar formula. It's Final Fantasy. It's been following a similar formula for 26 years, and we still love it. There is literally no way to please every single person who plays the game, that much is true. But let's not pretend that it's failing just because a vocal minority are getting itchy over familiarity.

---

FF11 actually changed with each expansion and implemented new gameplay systems. Even combat changed and meta changed each expansion. One expansion would be all about mana burns while another expansion would be skill chain burns and spamming certain weaponskills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koros

Seriously, I don't even know where people get the idea that 7.0 is going to fix or even partially fix the problems with this game, it's not just one or two people, it's like the majority of the playerbase.

If you don't like the game at all, unironically save yourself the money and quit now because at this point this game is irredeemable. There's literally no point in waiting for 7.0 to fix anything. Spoiler: they won't. Only reason to stick to this game is for secondary, non-game purposes.

Let me just spoil the ending for all of you: FF14 is going to start failing, slowly, Square Enix is going to put this on maintenance mode in like 8.0 or 9.0 or something, maybe they'll try to revitalize it but fail.

CBU3 has like literally no idea how to make interesting progression systems, there is not a single exploratory content or horizontal content that succeeded with the entire playerbase. They just don't know how. They also fired some devs and leads who disagreed with the vision of the game (rumor), clearly they're not open to feedback either. So don't huff the copium really, no need to wait for 7.0. It's already over.

---

gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8. They should hire you. I'm sure you could provide solutions to those problems you imagined.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Sounds to me more like a select few people wanting it to fail, rather than it actually being even close to failing.

---

You can insinuate that, i suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

Personally, I'm hyped for Dawntrail.

---

Why? Just because it's a new expansion?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

If it's more of the same, then it's more of the same handcrafted world, compelling stories and engaging fights.

---

Yes the areas are not made by AI. So i guess it's "handcrafted". Compelling stories... FFXIV has one of the most boring stories and really bad pacing, but ok. Engaging fights? I guess. Finding out mechs on the fly can be really engaging.
By the way does any Scion have any motivation to be a good boy/girl and save the world? Just asking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

What's not to like about that? Sure, it's going to follow a familiar formula. It's Final Fantasy. It's been following a similar formula for 26 years, and we still love it.

---

Most that loved turn based rpgs moved on. Weird that you claim the franchise was always this much stuck on a formula. Feels like they mostly give us memberberries now. But hey: I can't even blame them too much on that. Why make a fresh story like XIII or XV and be hated for it when you can just retell parts of old FFs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemuria

There is literally no way to please every single person who plays the game, that much is true. But let's not pretend that it's failing just because a vocal minority are getting itchy over familiarity.

---

I guess it depens if we get another Endwalker-like Streamer push. On the other hand the holy Yoshi-P is rather playing Zelda instead of doing a Liveletter. I mean, they can just NOT have those things. Seems like most they do for FFXIV is made out of obligation. I saw MrHappy's reaction to the Dawntrail fanfest event and trailer. He was actually excited about getting... 2 jobs. You know, like EVERY expansion since SB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheNight

This is ultra copium. They have quite brazenly disregarded and insulted fans giving feedback, such as by telling healers to go play Ultimate.

---

https://media.tenor.com/ASDQYluyn3oAAAAC/ultra-logo.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheNight

This is ultra copium. They have quite brazenly disregarded and insulted fans giving feedback, such as by telling healers to go play Ultimate.

---

Do you think they'll let me borrow the ultra copium when they're done with it? I'm gonna need it by the time 7.0 comes around...

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/39/90/59/3...3486f304e1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Hmm. Multiple gifs lately. Have you also gotten to the point where the convos are just too dumb to think much about them? lol

---

You're not playing Forum correctly if you don't post gifs and memes every so often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

https://media.tenor.com/ASDQYluyn3oAAAAC/ultra-logo.gif

---

Hmm. Multiple gifs lately. Have you also gotten to the point where the convos are just too dumb to think much about them? lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You're not playing Forum correctly if you don't post gifs and memes every so often.

---

I really do need new material. Image of Alisae sleeping is putting me to sleep.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Hmm. Multiple gifs lately. Have you also gotten to the point where the convos are just too dumb to think much about them? lol

---

https://media.tenor.com/O2znLBfKm1QA...scott-wink.gif

I think people who are expecting Dawntrail to refresh the game and make it seem like new again are going to be disappointed. There will probably be new bits sprinkled in, but dungeons, trials and raids will all be like what we have already been getting and that is the content that we interact with the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

I think people who are expecting Dawntrail to refresh the game and make it seem like new again are going to be disappointed. There will probably be new bits sprinkled in, but dungeons, trials and raids will all be like what we have already been getting and that is the content that we interact with the most.

---

Yeah, I really don't wanna be a 7.0 doomer (I genuinely mean that), but I can't say that I have much faith in it to make the changes necessary. I'm not going to be unrealistic just because a realistic viewpoint is negative. At best I'm hoping that it's just mid and less outright offensive than Endwalker.

Quote:

---

I think people who are expecting Dawntrail to refresh the game and make it seem like new again are going to be disappointed.

---

Thats one opinion, sure, on the other hand we dont know. From the trailer ( this will be one of three or so, as we havent seen the FULL trailer yet ), IMO theres no need to borrow disappointment. Ive enjoyed Endwalker immensely, yet whilst I agree that to a *point* it has been..well..formulaic, theres always room to see things changed up.

Quote:

---

There will probably be new bits sprinkled in, but dungeons, trials and raids will all be like what we have already been getting and that is the content that we interact with the most.

---

Not too sure I agree here, raids have their appeal, yes, but in looking at the ENTIRE picture, no.

There are a myriad of other activities that ARENT raiding, and have their own appeal. FF 14 is not and never has been 'raid centric", I think that if you had complete participation data ( which we dont have and never will ) you may find that perspective covers a much wider scope.

"If you dont raid you arent playing the game" is a narrow and idiotic stance.

Im happy to wait and see whats coming. That comment I saw about "maintenance mode" was kinda funny, as I KNOW we will be seeing a broad swathe of new content added over time. "Maintenance mode" and new content dont go together at all.

We have two more Fanfests and a lot more detail pending.

Why feed the troll?
ทำไมต้องสนใจคนเกรียน?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wingale

Why feed the troll?
ทำไมต้องสนใจคนเกรียน?

---

this thread is quite good atcually.

Now we have solid reason to tell people to quit using this thread as backup, and we can just redirect any retort to OP.

Believe me, no one will dare to say a thing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Not too sure I agree here, raids have their appeal, yes, but in looking at the ENTIRE picture, no.

There are a myriad of other activities that ARENT raiding, and have their own appeal. FF 14 is not and never has been 'raid centric", I think that if you had complete participation data ( which we dont have and never will ) you may find that perspective covers a much wider scope.

"If you dont raid you arent playing the game" is a narrow and idiotic stance.

---

"If you dont raid you arent playing the game" was said by no one except yourself... quoting... the voices in your head? What is it with you and putting words in other people's mouths?

The comment you responded to also mentioned dungeons and trials. I don't know why you ignore that. Can every bit of FFXIV be lackluster because it has (arguably) so many different things to do?

What should count? Chocoboracing which hasn't been updated since forever? Island Sanctuary and its boringness and weak updates? The lackluster new deepdungeon? Criterion and Variant dungeons? (We know how those went)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

There are a myriad of other activities that ARENT raiding, and have their own appeal. FF 14 is not and never has been 'raid centric"

---

And is crafted gear intended for those activities or for raiding, VelKallor?

I'll let you use your calculator this time :)

oh wait I forgor, you don't raid in FFXIV :(

This thread was part of this video lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMpj7FRukfY

I mean, having been playing since 1.0 I’m not really under any illusion of expansions actually progressing the game developmentally lol. We’ll get the same usual content as expected (msq, dungeons, trials, raids) , one or two badly implemented ‘new’ contents (e.g Eureka / Bozja / Criterion & Variant), and every job will play exactly the same as it has for the past however many years the game has been out.

And I mean, honestly I don’t really mind anymore. There comes a point where you just have to accept that the game is happy with a compulsive focus on aesthetics / presentation over actual gameplay that ultimately results in overall mediocrity. I mean, the game is literally designed for players to not be playing it lol, so it’s no surprise they don’t care about retaining players beyond the initial month or two they sub. The initial storyline will be great, music will be 10/10, it will look great. After that? Hope you like dressing up your character and taking screens lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This thread was part of this video lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMpj7FRukfY

---

Yeah - I'm just waiting to see if any streamers post reaction videos in response to Mr Happy's video!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This thread was part of this video lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMpj7FRukfY

---

This explains the few (very) insightful one-liners we got from forums newcommers yesterday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

This thread was part of this video lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMpj7FRukfY

---

Just a few minutes in and MrHappy is already extremely passive aggressive. I watched his Dawntrail reaction. Sorry that not all of us gasp with excitement about getting 2 new jobs (like he did).
Maybe he is mad because people called his behaviour out or it's the simple fact that a FFXIV Youtuber has to be a shill in order to make this their job. Gotta earn money somehow!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

Just a few minutes in and MrHappy is already extremely passive aggressive. I watches his Dawntrail reaction. Sorry that not all of us gasp with excitement about getting 2 new jobs (like he did).
Maybe he is mad because people called his behaviour out or it's the simple fact that a FFXIV Youtuber has to be a shill in order to make this their job. Gotta earn money somehow!

---

Pretty much every ff14 youtuber is like that now and shills for ff14 and are scared to criticize ff14 in fear that they might not preferential treatment or not be invited to a media tour.

I doubt it would be worth most content creators' time being a shill if they didn't enjoy the game. Could someone really drag themselves through raids and new content on a stream regularly if they just weren't enjoying it anymore? Usually content creators just quit when they have a burnout like that because it becomes the easier option, mentally, to just get a new job or switch games. We have examples of that in the FFXIV community where the content creator quit due to burnout, but we have a huge amount more from WoW who got burned out and either quit or switch games/activities.

It's also worth looking at MrHappy's history of being depressed and not making videos as much sometimes. He's making more than ever right now. When you're burned out that just slows down a lot.

There's a difference between being a shill and just being understanding and considerate of why SE makes the decisions they make. Not everyone is a negative nancy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

Just a few minutes in and MrHappy is already extremely passive aggressive. I watched his Dawntrail reaction. Sorry that not all of us gasp with excitement about getting 2 new jobs (like he did).
Maybe he is mad because people called his behaviour out or it's the simple fact that a FFXIV Youtuber has to be a shill in order to make this their job. Gotta earn money somehow!

---

To be fair, we're all passive aggressive when it comes to talking and criticizing this game. If you actually paid attention to the video, the discussion of this thread and other doomer threads he pointed out was more of people having terrible takes that lack major perspective on the state of the game. That doenst mean that we should all be super hyped happy go lucky excited for shit but also not go in the other extreme. Which for a lot of us, that tends to be the case for both the super positives and the super negatives.

Its a rare case to have a nice healthy in-between with these threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Thats one opinion, sure, on the other hand we dont know. From the trailer ( this will be one of three or so, as we havent seen the FULL trailer yet ), IMO theres no need to borrow disappointment. Ive enjoyed Endwalker immensely, yet whilst I agree that to a *point* it has been..well..formulaic, theres always room to see things changed up.



Not too sure I agree here, raids have their appeal, yes, but in looking at the ENTIRE picture, no.

There are a myriad of other activities that ARENT raiding, and have their own appeal. FF 14 is not and never has been 'raid centric", I think that if you had complete participation data ( which we dont have and never will ) you may find that perspective covers a much wider scope.

"If you dont raid you arent playing the game" is a narrow and idiotic stance.

Im happy to wait and see whats coming. That comment I saw about "maintenance mode" was kinda funny, as I KNOW we will be seeing a broad swathe of new content added over time. "Maintenance mode" and new content dont go together at all.

We have two more Fanfests and a lot more detail pending.

---

You really only focused on the raiding part, when there are two other things in there which make up the entirety of the roulettes that we take part in every day or week. I am most certainly not a raider, but I still do the normal ones at least once to see the story bits attached to it. I am completely expecting combat content to remain wholly unchanged in Dawntrail as it has been since 2.0, we will be getting the same style of dungeons, trials, and raids (which includes the 24 man alliance raids) as we have been getting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BRVV

Just a few minutes in and MrHappy is already extremely passive aggressive. I watched his Dawntrail reaction. Sorry that not all of us gasp with excitement about getting 2 new jobs (like he did).
Maybe he is mad because people called his behaviour out or it's the simple fact that a FFXIV Youtuber has to be a shill in order to make this their job. Gotta earn money somehow!

---

yeah. I can't see this as anything other than a thinly veiled attempt to just point and laugh at the forums for having haha funny crazy people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

yeah. I can't see this as anything other than a thinly veiled attempt to just point and laugh at the forums for having haha funny crazy people.

---

But it’s true. Forum is indeed full of haha funny crazy people. I’m one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VentVanitas

yeah. I can't see this as anything other than a thinly veiled attempt to just point and laugh at the forums for having haha funny crazy people.

---

Since the developers don't read the English forums, I think he genuinely wants to bring issues from the official forums to the developers' attention. And he already succeeded.

One of his forum videos recently looked at a post discussing the alliance raid issue. And suddenly, SE announced it will be addressed. We know the developers watch him, and they had ignored this issue up until now, and suddenly addressed it after his video. There isn't any other explanation here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Since the developers don't read the English forums, I think he genuinely wants to bring issues from the official forums to the developers' attention. And he already succeeded.

One of his forum videos recently looked at a post discussing the alliance raid issue. And suddenly, SE announced it will be addressed. We know the developers watch him, and they had ignored this issue up until now, and suddenly addressed it after his video. There isn't any other explanation here.

---

At the very least, its very much easier to read feedback where a lot of people talk about it in a video platform rather than in written form, since Youtube is still extremely popular. Its interesting how many of the usual FFXIV content creators generally agree with some of the feedback (such as terrible healer design, lack of retention content, endgame gearing etc) given in the forums where they do address and discuss it with their community but thats still considered bad? Or I dont know, it feels thats the general attitude I see here

This thread, from the OP made me finally decide to comment on a forum post for the first time ever.

And it's simply to say "Cool stuff, don't care". Clearly a troll post to make people comment and such. Is there issues with the game? Of course, but all of the stuff in the OT is so screwed towards Spoony level hyperbolic that I can't imagine it's anything more than a troll thread. And I don't care about finding out either. I just wanted to say that it gave me a good hearty laugh and that I plan to go back to not caring and just enjoying the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

At the very least, its very much easier to read feedback where a lot of people talk about it in a video platform rather than in written form, since Youtube is still extremely popular. Its interesting how many of the usual FFXIV content creators generally agree with some of the feedback (such as terrible healer design, lack of retention content, endgame gearing etc) given in the forums where they do address and discuss it with their community but thats still considered bad? Or I dont know, it feels thats the general attitude I see here

---

The one that immediately comes to mind is mr happy, no matter your actual opinion on him you get the distinct thread that he kinda just plays 14 now because it’s his job, anytime he makes old videos about coils or Alexander there is just an excitement there you don’t see much from him anymore

Like a lot of the remaining ARR boomers I think he is desperately clinging to a game that has moved past what Drew them to the game but refuses to admit it’s kinda over at this point, I’m in the same position

Edit: just read up further in the chain and realised this conversation started about mr happy, glad I’m not the only one who gets said impression from him

For me I hate that the game makes me play through the msq without being able to play with a friend as an option. Hard to get friends to stay when they give up because they have to do so much alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Natalyah

For me I hate that the game makes me play through the msq without being able to play with a friend as an option. Hard to get friends to stay when they give up because they have to do so much alone.

---

Natalyah: theres a good reason for this. You wont be burdened with someone telling you "Ive done with the cutscene it doesnt matter just skip it and lets go". MSQ is meant to be your own personal journey.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Natalyah: theres a good reason for this. You wont be burdened with someone telling you "Ive done with the cutscene it doesnt matter just skip it and lets go". MSQ is meant to be your own personal journey.

---

Personal journey

MMO

Pick one, if you want an epic personal story play FF 6/7/9/13/16