Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

If we look at the steam chart numbers they are fairly stable between the endwalker patches. We're down from the massive endwalker release spike. Call me a crazy person or whatever but retaining those numbers was never realistic, the game has left its niche status and with that comes people who drop it after the main update. If JP population is stable aswell then steam users and console users might not be so different afterall.

Well, game numbers aside, the OP's argument that the game should be more alt-friendly and that content should be uncoupled from the MSQ would require a fundamental shift in the way the dev team handles its development cycle. Which is to say, unless they're given a REALLY goodreason to believe that there's a lot of money in it, it's highly unlikely that it'll change now.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I've just been struggling a bit in this latest conversation what the basis is for using Steam numbers as a predictor of anything except trends among Steam users, because we don't have the numbers for other platforms so it seems to be a big blind spot.

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This is why it makes no sense. Steam Numbers, are for STEAM Users. Its been brought up multiple times that there are people who play on Playstation Consoles (4 & 5), and then there are people who play on the Official Launcher. All these Steam Charts do, is target Steam Users. It does not factor other Users of the Playerbase, its not an entirely accurate representation. But for some reason the rebuttal or "Defense" is Copium, (I dont understand how this is a defense or a point at all) and Its a Trend. Which...ok sure, cute.....but you still arnt factoring in the Entire Playerbase. Maybe Steam has the biggest userbase, but we can't prove that unless we have all the Numbers.

Even then...who knows, maybe the number isnt even that big.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

Well, game numbers aside, the OP's argument that the game should be more alt-friendly and that content should be uncoupled from the MSQ would require a fundamental shift in the way the dev team handles its development cycle. Which is to say, unless they're given a REALLY goodreason to believe that there's a lot of money in it, it's highly unlikely that it'll change now.

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There is no reason to have Alts considering how the game Functions.
But honestly, even with that said the game could stand to be more Alt Friendly. It would be beneficial to the player to be able to interact with all of their characters amongst eachother. I guess the question is how far would they go with it? Probably the one thing is they just wouldnt allow is sharing Gear, Mounts and Minions. Forcing you to play the content if you want things.

And Uncoupling Content from MSQ, I dont see that happening because, as said, its a Fundamental of FFXIV.
Its part of how their world & Game Functions, that it changes and evolves with the changing and progression of the MSQ, which allows some events to even happen. Much less how you get so some areas with said content.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

You are too much in denial and on copium, honestly it's whatever at this point, I have nothing to prove to you, all FFXIV players are the same, no matter if you play on a gameboy color, a nintendo, a playstation 5, a computer, an xbox, everyone behind the screen is a human and everyone does different activities in the game



That doesnt change anything about what activities they do, everyone in FFXIV does different activities, be it raiding,housing,fishing, crafting, hanging out, venues, we are all human behind the screen.

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When doing different things was brought up it was about the different games and genres people might like to play or do. It had nothing to do with in game activities. You're the one who somehow read that wrong and has continued to go on this rant about the wrong thing.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

There is no reason to have Alts considering how the game Functions.
But honestly, even with that said the game could stand to be more Alt Friendly. It would be beneficial to the player to be able to interact with all of their characters amongst eachother. I guess the question is how far would they go with it? Probably the one thing is they just wouldnt allow is sharing Gear, Mounts and Minions. Forcing you to play the content if you want things.

And Uncoupling Content from MSQ, I dont see that happening because, as said, its a Fundamental of FFXIV.
Its part of how their world & Game Functions, that it changes and evolves with the changing and progression of the MSQ, which allows some events to even happen. Much less how you get so some areas with said content.

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Having everything on one character is great...until you get to endgame gearing where it all falls apart and its just better to gear alt jobs on an alt character instead (or do split clears but tomes are still an issue xD)

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Having everything on one character is great...until you get to endgame gearing where it all falls apart and its just better to gear alt jobs on an alt character instead (or do split clears but tomes are still an issue xD)

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uh. other then causality being capped at 450 weekly (as its current tier currency), poetics and astronomy flow into you like a raging river lol. so unless you going for pure lunar stuff and augmenting it. you can literally get the crafted set, trade it in and mass farm astronomy to make that into an augmented set. if you go out of your way for the raid tier stuff though..then thats on you but they removed the caps on those recently as well.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

uh. other then causality being capped at 450 weekly (as its current tier currency), poetics and astronomy flow into you like a raging river lol. so unless you going for pure lunar stuff and augmenting it. you can literally get the crafted set, trade it in and mass farm astronomy to make that into an augmented set. if you go out of your way for the raid tier stuff though..then thats on you but they removed the caps on those recently as well.

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Yes they removed the cap....8 months after the tier came out xD, and causality is still capped at 450 until 6.4.

And im not sure how "thats on you" is an agrument lmao.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Yes they removed the cap....8 months after the tier came out xD, and causality is still capped at 450 until 6.4.

And im not sure how "thats on you" is an agrument lmao.

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because if you going for raid tier stuff on multiple classes then its YOUR CHOICE to do it. thats why the "thats on you". end of it all this game is still a mmo and no mmo makes it easy for gear progression. i did learn one thing after my first character. i learned to only have classes i will actually use. that cuts down majorly on what gear i need end of the day and saves me time. however, as most people feel the need to gear up multiple classes then expect it not to be that easy. still need to farm and as a mmo that won't change. only way it would is if this became a true single player experience. those games have simple ways to get gear.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

because if you going for raid tier stuff on multiple classes then its YOUR CHOICE to do it. thats why the "thats on you". end of it all this game is still a mmo and no mmo makes it easy for gear progression. i did learn one thing after my first character. i learned to only have classes i will actually use. that cuts down majorly on what gear i need end of the day and saves me time. however, as most people feel the need to gear up multiple classes then expect it not to be that easy. still need to farm and as a mmo that won't change. only way it would is if this became a true single player experience. those games have simple ways to get gear.

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??????

Lmao

The game encourages having everything on one character but you cant get gear for it and your response is "that's on you"

ok bud

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

because if you going for raid tier stuff on multiple classes then its YOUR CHOICE to do it. thats why the "thats on you". end of it all this game is still a mmo and no mmo makes it easy for gear progression. i did learn one thing after my first character. i learned to only have classes i will actually use. that cuts down majorly on what gear i need end of the day and saves me time. however, as most people feel the need to gear up multiple classes then expect it not to be that easy. still need to farm and as a mmo that won't change. only way it would is if this became a true single player experience. those games have simple ways to get gear.

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But if i choose to gear an alt job using a seperate character instead of gearing all on one character, the process is sped up exponentially which makes no sense considering this game advertises its ability to play all jobs on one character. I can have 2 characters each with a job BiS around the same time. If i did it all on one character, i wouldnt have BiS on the second job for awhile after depending on shared gear + luck.

A system that is flawed isnt "on me". Stop defending a system built for gearing a single job. We have 19 and counting.

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Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

i did learn one thing after my first character. i learned to only have classes i will actually use. that cuts down majorly on what gear i need end of the day and saves me time.

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Man, back when I was HARDCORE into this game, back on SB I geared EVERYTHING.....once I got to ShB, I realized how dumb that was.
Im still going to level every job, because Actually playing the jobs is better to learn what you like/dont like. And pick a Tank, Healer and/or Dps you like and just focus on that. Unless you wanna mix it up.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

??????
The game encourages having everything on one character but you cant get gear for it and your response is "that's on you"

Lmao ok bud

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They aren't wrong. "Its on YOU"
But how are you gonna sit here and say you can't gear a class....when you very clearly can? Im confused by alot of your replies to people....

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

But if i choose to gear an alt job using a seperate character instead of gearing all on one character, the process is sped up exponentially which makes no sense considering this game advertises its ability to play all jobs on one character. I can have 2 characters each with a job BiS around the same time. If i did it all on one character, i wouldnt have BiS on the second job for awhile after depending on shared gear + luck.

A system that is flawed isnt "on me". Stop defending a system built for gearing a single job. We have 19 and counting.

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Some people are ready to defend ANYTHING that Square does, its just the true reality, the person you are responding to is just one of the many, they'll always come back at you with "it's on you" or other random arguments of the like because they have no idea what to say to defend the company but they have to defend it anyway

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Man, back when I was HARDCORE into this game, back on SB I geared EVERYTHING.....once I got to ShB, I realized how dumb that was.
Im still going to level every job, because Actually playing the jobs is better to learn what you like/dont like. And pick a Tank, Healer and/or Dps you like and just focus on that. Unless you wanna mix it up.



They aren't wrong. "Its on YOU"
But how are you gonna sit here and say you can't gear a class....when you very clearly can? Im confused by alot of your replies to people....

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I think the issue here is we have people defending systems they dont interact with. No, you did not gear every job to BiS in any expansion. You and Raven do not do savage or ultimate content which is where the gear matters. Why argue when you clearly dont know what you are talking about, and it simply doesnt impact you at all?

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

you did not gear every job to BiS in any expansion.

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No, I didnt.
But My response still stands that "its on You" to Gear your job. And you can in fact gear it. Or is there some argument here that you literally Cant Gear your Jobs?
Thats all Im getting at. I dont have to do Savage or Ultimites to say you can gear your jobs...because (unless there is a forcefield literally stopping you) you can.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Some people are ready to defend ANYTHING that Square does, its just the true reality, the person you are responding to is just one of the many, they'll always come back at you with "it's on you" or other random arguments of the like because they have no idea what to say to defend the company but they have to defend it anyway

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Choose any variation of "its on you" "its always been like this" "i like it that way" or "but wow bad"

This thread in a nutshell:

OP Miqo'te makes thread about MSQ. Angry Anti-WoW Miqo'te gets mad, and proceeds to have argument with based Miqo'te. Raider Miqo'te mentions how bad alt gearing is, and casual Miqo'te claims it's his fault.

I've read through 22 pages of this nonsense so you don't have to. You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

No, I didnt.
But My response still stands that "its on You" to Gear your job. And you can in fact gear it. Or is there some argument here that you literally Cant Gear your Jobs?
Thats all Im getting at. I dont have to do Savage or Ultimites to say you can gear your jobs...because (unless there is a forcefield literally stopping you) you can.

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Lactose intolerant person gives strong opinion on flavors of milk. lol

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Originally Posted by R041

Lactose intolerant person gives strong opinion on flavors of milk. lol

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I mean, you still can.
Just your body wont be able to digest it very well.
But that doesnt mean you cant taste it.

Such a weird take lol

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I mean, you still can.
Just your body wont be able to digest it very well.
But that doesnt mean you cant taste it.

Such a weird take lol

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Woosh the point over your head

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

Woosh the point over your head

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Idk man, Flavored Milk is pretty good, even if I don't drink a whole lot of it.
But even then I can still taste it and give an opinion

ok decided to come back to this thread and skimming through the last few pages and now we're talking about milk?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

ok decided to come back to this thread and skimming through the last few pages and now we're talking about milk?

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I think its about Gearing Alt Jobs with BiS and because I dont do savage or Ultimates I have no room to talk when all I said was that I agree that its up to you to gear your Jobs, and unless there is some force-field stopping you, there is no reason you cant gear your Job..
Then some analogy about flavors of Milk and being Lactose. Even though you can still drink the milk, just your body will have a weird reaction.

IDK, these forums are weird sometimes.
But they are never dull even if its the same people.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I think its about Gearing Alt Jobs with BiS and because I dont do savage or Ultimates I have no room to talk when all I said was that I agree that its up to you to gear your Jobs, and unless there is some force-field stopping you, there is no reason you cant gear your Job..
Then some analogy about flavors of Milk and being Lactose. Even though you can still drink the milk, just your body will have a weird reaction.

IDK, these forums are weird sometimes.
But they are never dull even if its the same people.

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What bothers me is understanding where the hardcore mentality is even coming from wanting to gear up multiple roles when (checks savage raid min.ilv) the current savage raid tier which is the only hardcore combat endgame raiding content we have (sides Ults but thats not the case) has an entry of ilv.610. BiS isnt necessary to clear these fights, and if we're talking about wanting better gear anyway, may I remind people that due to FFXIV's consistent patch cycle the window relevancy for that gear is so short because by the time the next patch comes, the discrepency of ilvs is triviliazed due to the catch up gear you get by then?

There is no reason why you would feel that you need to bis multiple roles when the current raiding content is clearable with the bare minimum. If they added another raid tier where ilv.630 is required for entry then YES I can 100% get behind people's frustrations with gearing because you would want to have multiple roles accessible to you for the prog. But with how endgame raiding content is currently handled? savage gear is almost trivial.

This game needs better raid progression, that should be the focus of the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

What bothers me is understanding where the hardcore mentality is even coming from wanting to gear up multiple roles when (checks savage raid min.ilv) the current savage raid tier which is the only hardcore combat endgame raiding content we have (sides Ults but thats not the case) has an entry of ilv.610. BiS isnt necessary to clear these fights, and if we're talking about wanting better gear anyway, may I remind people that due to FFXIV's consistent patch cycle the window relevancy for that gear is so short because by the time the next patch comes, the discrepency of ilvs is triviliazed due to the catch up gear you get by then?

There is no reason why you would feel that you need to bis multiple roles when the current raiding content is clearable with the bare minimum. If they added another raid tier where ilv.630 is required for entry then YES I can 100% get behind people's frustrations with gearing because you would want to have multiple roles accessible to you for the prog. But with how endgame raiding content is currently handled? savage gear is almost trivial.

This game needs better raid progression, that should be the focus of the discussion.

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Its refreshing to see more level-headed takes that actually make sense sometimes

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Man, back when I was HARDCORE into this game, back on SB I geared EVERYTHING.....once I got to ShB, I realized how dumb that was.
Im still going to level every job, because Actually playing the jobs is better to learn what you like/dont like. And pick a Tank, Healer and/or Dps you like and just focus on that. Unless you wanna mix it up.



They aren't wrong. "Its on YOU"
But how are you gonna sit here and say you can't gear a class....when you very clearly can? Im confused by alot of your replies to people....

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When was you hardcore into the game again? Dunno. Forever hardcore in gray? Cmon. You are starting being really annoying. First, you take steam graphs as totally not represantive of userbase, without even knowing what that data means, and now you trying to act like you know how it is to gear savage character, when you dont. Please stop talking about stuff you have no idea about. Go touch some grass. YoshiP will not give you pats on head for defending bs systems.

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Originally Posted by SaltyDaddy

When was you hardcore into the game again? Dunno. Forever hardcore in gray? Cmon. You are starting being really annoying. First, you take steam graphs as totally not represantive of userbase, without even knowing what that data means, and now you trying to act like you know how it is to gear savage character, when you dont. Please stop talking about stuff you have no idea about. Go touch some grass. YoshiP will not give you pats on head for defending bs systems.

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What have I defended again?...Sorry I need a reminder. Otherwise this just sounds like "I dont like you because you dont agree with me"
I was hardcore into the game for 7 years straight. If I remember correctly I came in just 2 patches after Thordan.
Correction: Steam does not represent the WHOLE playerbase, repeating myself because it sounds like I need to: The playerbase also plays on the Official Launcher and on Playstation consoles - PS4 & PS5. Steam charts do not factor these people, and we do not have those numbers (from what I know). That is a very basic fact that people I guess want to ignore for some reason. And my argument is: nothing is stopping you from gearing your class. People should really try to actually read what Im saying, or at least ask for clarification.

I dont play this game hardcore anymore my dude, I have other life obligations, I have a Job, play other games, and do other things in my life. I dont need YoshiP-Senpai to notice me for anything. Its just a videogame.
So please take the low-tier insult and put it in the trash. Its garbage.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

What bothers me is understanding where the hardcore mentality is even coming from wanting to gear up multiple roles when (checks savage raid min.ilv) the current savage raid tier which is the only hardcore combat endgame raiding content we have (sides Ults but thats not the case) has an entry of ilv.610. BiS isnt necessary to clear these fights, and if we're talking about wanting better gear anyway, may I remind people that due to FFXIV's consistent patch cycle the window relevancy for that gear is so short because by the time the next patch comes, the discrepency of ilvs is triviliazed due to the catch up gear you get by then?

There is no reason why you would feel that you need to bis multiple roles when the current raiding content is clearable with the bare minimum. If they added another raid tier where ilv.630 is required for entry then YES I can 100% get behind people's frustrations with gearing because you would want to have multiple roles accessible to you for the prog. But with how endgame raiding content is currently handled? savage gear is almost trivial.

This game needs better raid progression, that should be the focus of the discussion.

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I know you said besides ultimates but they are essentially the post savage raid tier which requires you to have pretty much BiS if not BiS to complete. If your argument is you only need to meet the minimum ilvl to do savage the question I have is why bother doing savage after your first clear then? Sure you might like doing the fights but most do it so they can gear their characters and progress them as well as get them ready for the next savage tier. FF14 is an MMO with no horizontal progression system so there is only one way to progress characters and that is by getting the new BiS through savage and tomes. I think that should be the real focus, finding more ways to acquire BiS or almost BiS outside of taking months to gear one role through savage and tomes whether it be through making criterion dungeons content worth doing by having it drop in between gear (ie ilvl 625) or making alliance raids drop higher ilvl gear as another source of alternate gearing for savage raider alt jobs since they have to wait almost 8 months for the raid tier's gear lockout to be removed.

That being said I am someone who doesn't care about my own gearing since I don't do content where gear really makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I know you said besides ultimates but they are essentially the post savage raid tier which requires you to have pretty much BiS if not BiS to complete. If your argument is you only need to meet the minimum ilvl to do savage the question I have is why bother doing savage after your first clear then? Sure you might like doing the fights but most do it so they can gear their characters and progress them as well as get them ready for the next savage tier. FF14 is an MMO with no horizontal progression system so there is only one way to progress characters and that is by getting the new BiS through savage and tomes.

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You must've not read my whole post because at the end there I gave the counter-argument in that by the next patch, the catch up gear available (via tomestones, raids, dungeons, augments etc) will be more than enough to get ready for the next savage raid cycle. They never increase each raid's entry ilv. Literally I have all of my jobs currently at ilv.610 and above and I got that without touching a single Abyssos savage raid. This is how you obviously get entry to do Savage and the items are a mix between the normal raid drops, crafted and tomestone gear. The entry for Abyssos was ilv.600 which doesnt take much time or effort to get to at all and the last 2 savage raids are ilv.610 which again, this is already gotten by non-savage gear anyway.

The thing that hardcore raiders are missing is the obvious lack of meaningful progression because of how totally lax and easy it is to get into and clear the raids. The BiS fallacy is just to get a slightly bigger advantage on a fight you can already clear at the bare minimum.

Like I said, if you want FFXIV's raiding to be more meaningful and lasting they need to introduce more battle content where it requires you to be BiS in order to do em and not just involve it around Ultimates which come twice in the post-expansion patch cycle (and quickly lose relevance once that ilv discrepency comes during the next patch).

The game needs a Mythic+ system...well without some of its terrible affix and keystones things they have going on in WoW.

Still imagine that at some point they're going to create an alternate start as that, imo, is one of the most logical yet 'stable' solutions to this. An expansion or two ago I can understand some people's eyebrows raising at skips being a default offering (at least once), but I cannot foresee it being maintainable concept on and on. If they are as they said 10 more years rick and mor-- FFXIV then lets say if each expansion is an average of 60 hours, with an expansion every 2 years (2013 ARR release, HW 2015, StB 2017, ShB 2019, EW 2021, +10 more years = 2023, 2025, 2027, 2029, 2031), that totals approximately 600 hours (likely more, given you're probably not going to always be doing just the MSQ).

To put that into context, that would be like 100%'ing Skyrim almost 3 times (approx. 232 hours per 100%). Or being able to watch all of One Piece currently (1000 episodes), and then enough time to spare to also watch all of Friends.

For real world example my wife who was big into the One Piece comics when she asked how many episodes were out when we were talking about starting to watch it again was like "LOL, no- we'll watch something else" and that's media content that you could technically just jump into and mostly be fine. Books, movies, and honestly most games, have theoretical or literal 'alternate starts' all the time, like reading the wrong Dune first.. might help to read them in a certain order but people do it all the time out of order, or start an episode randomly on TV, especially before all this on the demand internet streaming, and then watch older stuff when it re-aired. Most MMOs that are large are doing similar things, though usually with potions which I feel are very bad. Massive series games are similar in that they come in pieces.

I like FFXIV and I think it is great, but if you wiped my mind of everything, and I had to pay a monthly fee, I legitimately do not think I would attempt to engage with the game if you told me I'd be locked from a lot of content I was interested in until I did x% of 600 hours. Smartly FFXIV does offer many expansions of content for free without a sub... which would potentially take a hard no into a "I might try it sometimes, but I'll probably not dedicate a lot of focus to it unless it grips me as the best game in the world".. but given the nice free expansions you can actually low commitment play the game, that said I don't believe such an idea entirely alleviates all the of the hesitancy or concerns that begets such a large wall either, and ultimately I feel the alternate type of entry is going to just be one of the most obvious solutions. Also reminding that 60 is really generous and it's probably at least 25% more than that, given that you will be probably doing some other content here and there (Gold Saucer, events, friends, gil making, DoL, Doh, whatever).

Now taking a fair step back we are not in 2032 are we? ... Are we..? COVID Part.. 5.... Mask.. Quarenti--- Anyway, we're more like 250 - 500 currently (pace dependent on person, I imagine most around 300 hours). The range also given the likely new expansion, but also because technically 60 hours per expansion is generous as mentioned before.

I say alternate entry because I think skip potions are Dodo Dumpster Fires of a means of being an intro to the game, just because you need to move someone deeper into the game doesn't mean "no intro"- I still strongly believe intros are really important. Also disregarding any lore breaking suggestions people counter with because why in Thal's name would that be suggested as a solution... like when I read that as a response I swear people are trying to make a strawman.. DONT do that, it might have some FFVII Remake vibes temporarily but whatever.. it's still very possible given someone smart enough to weave things back into a /single/ strand (Even the lengths FFVII Remake are too far and more of a joke suggestion, just conk the WoL on the head or something lol).

It's still true you could dig heels into the ground, I just don't see the point of it over time. 2 Expansions ago an alternate start would have been aggressive measures, at this next expansion I would call it a logical decision, 2 - 4 expansions from now (6.0) and not having one and I'd seriously doubt the vast majority of people make it through the free expansion and both admire the dedication to not budging on the vision and be amused at the decision and imagine it is directly causing very tangible burden and damage to the game. So I generally doubt there wont be some change in the next expansion or two, but at least there is the free expansions :3

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Forever hardcore in gray?

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This really doesnt help you.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

This really doesnt help you.

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After taking a look at the website, it's actually true, so it does help.

I dont talk about things I dont know if I have absolutely 0 clue.

This is like a player doing a trial roulette every day and that's all they do, and they ask for ultimate nerfs, it just doesnt make sense.

WoW isn't that much difference, you have to play through specific expansions before you can join the current one.
But it's also a story-driven game, so it's expected you go through the expansions. If you dislike it, cough up the cash for a skip.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

WoW isn't that much difference, you have to play through specific expansions before you can join the current one.
But it's also a story-driven game, so it's expected you go through the expansions. If you dislike it, cough up the cash for a skip.

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I can be done with WoW's story in a few days time, can you say the same for FFXIV ? Very different amount of hours to put in.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I can be done with WoW's story in a few days time, can you say the same for FFXIV ? Very different amount of hours to put in.

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As I was saying, it's two different games, my point was you couldn't jump into the latest content immediately as a new player without buying skips.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

I can be done with WoW's story in a few days time, can you say the same for FFXIV ? Very different amount of hours to put in.

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I can take one of each class to maxlevel + early/mid m+ / heroic raid ready in half the time it takes someone to go through all FF14 expansions even if they skip cutscenes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

I can take one of each class to maxlevel + early/mid m+ / heroic raid ready in half the time it takes someone to go through all FF14 expansions even if they skip cutscenes.

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Exactly, I mentioned this earlier in this thread, by the time you are done with the story in FFXIV, you can have multiple characters fully decked in m+ gear and hc, its really a terrible comparison

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

As I was saying, it's two different games, my point was you couldn't jump into the latest content immediately as a new player without buying skips.

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Of course not immediately, but I'd rather do 4 days to a week of story than do an entire month.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

snip

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I think the ship of a alternate start has sailed with the trust system

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

I think the ship of a alternate start has sailed with the trust system

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Certainly I see the trust system delaying such a concept lol, without it I'd be thinking we need an alt start now.. like already for this expansion; however, even with trusts I just can't imagine someone looking me in the eye with a straight face after reviewing the conceptual impact of 6+ games of forced content prior to whatever is 'current' and saying it's not a concern (doesn't mean alt start will be the only potential solution, skip potions is the dirt cheap option, but imo worse).

I'm not sure why it was suggested WoW isn't much different when WoW's current solution is 1 prev + 1 current (and is faster than even just two FFXIV expansions, given it's less story driven*), but that's akin to what I had mentioned long ago (but with the added 'alt start' concept so the beginning of an expansion is smoother). Though it made more sense to me to close off the saga and then make an expansion where that concept flowed more easily (like in the new ones coming up, 7.0, 8.0). In a new expansion not bound to the saga that 2.0 to 6.0 was, the 'alt start' might just be "the intro of the expansion".

*That WoW is faster per expansion isn't really the point, 60 per expansion is fine- just that 120 hours is substantially different than 300++ (+60 per new expansion) lol.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

WoW isn't that much difference, you have to play through specific expansions before you can join the current one.
But it's also a story-driven game, so it's expected you go through the expansions. If you dislike it, cough up the cash for a skip.

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Not really true, for WoW. I think currently they drop you into tutorial island then into BfA for 1-60 on a fresh account, then 60-70 in current expac. Subsequent characters you can level in any expansion you want then go into current expansion at 60.

Leveling a new character takes basically no time at all. As an example, looking at an alt I started recently, my time played to max level was about 24 hours of /played, and I wasn't trying to go fast really.