Rescue is Griefing

With how this community plays on a day to day basis, it deserves Rescue and any minor downsides that come with it.

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Originally Posted by DeltaCyan

Even I think the worst part is the lack of trust, and lack of accountability on the healers part. In their eyes they did nothing wrong.

….

Meanwhile the janky, unreliable, upsetting ability that disrupts other people stays.

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Lack of accountability? Rescue has one of the most distinctive noises going. It’s pretty obvious who pulled you and if the group is actually paying attention, it’s easy enough to act on it. Eg in the one example where I have seen it used to actually grief in recent times, said healer immediately got vote kicked for it.

And sure it’s janky, but it’s also a useful optimisation tool in Savage. But you don’t care about that now do you? It’s all about the whataboutisms ;)

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Lack of accountability? Rescue has one of the most distinctive noises going.

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Uh i never heard any rescue noise at all. But then my sound effects are set to low volume cause I can't stand them so I only hear the loud skill effects.

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

Uh i never heard any rescue noise at all. But then my sound effects are set to low volume cause I can't stand them so I only hear the loud skill effects.

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That's probably why.

I have mine set on 50 (think that's default?) and it helps me to recognize what's being used by my partymates, especially my co-healer's i.e. like Earthly Star/Sacred Soil/Asylum being put down, Kerachole's, Lustrates, Lily spells, Divination, Chain Strat, Benison, Temperance, you name it! Rescue has a unique sound effect, pretty sure I've never heard anything else like it so it's easy to tell when it's used.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

minor downsides that come with it.

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This part here is how I feel about Rescue. Are there people who will try and troll with it? Sure, but there are also people who will try and troll with just about anything(like the two OTs in Aglia last night who kept trying to murder the group with their tank busters).

People do use it to grief even if they think they are being helpful. Its annoying as fuck and rarely used to actually save people in normal content. And all the moments I want someone to use it on me they never do.

On one hand, it makes for great comedy in streamer videos.
On the other hand, it shows the potential it has when paired with malicious intent, and the fact the dev team hasn't mused over it is just as bad.

"Just report the guy" is also not a valid thing. We all know that FF14 shoots first and asks questions never, so if you happen to dislike one use of Rescue even if it had zero malicious intent, you'll still report it and it can be construed as griefing simply because "it bothered a player".

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Originally Posted by Avatre

This part here is how I feel about Rescue. Are there people who will try and troll with it? Sure, but there are also people who will try and troll with just about anything(like the two OTs in Aglia last night who kept trying to murder the group with their tank busters).

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Yes, and? This isn't the "Well, I have a butter knife, and knives kill, so am I a killer for using a butter knife" argument.
This is a game, where skills can be altered to have fewer effects like those.

Also, TOS exists. So yes, people who chase or rescue with malicious intent are viable for getting the GM hammer (when they deign to show up for work). Doesn't mean it can't be prevented all the same, nor does it mean it still doesn't suck to have such a readily-available tool for griefing.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

This part here is how I feel about Rescue. Are there people who will try and troll with it? Sure, but there are also people who will try and troll with just about anything(like the two OTs in Aglia last night who kept trying to murder the group with their tank busters).

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You mean you don't chase down the alliance as a tank w/ a tank buster going "I'm gonna get ya!" in alliance chat? It was a beautiful sight and that tank really did teach me the true meaning of adjusting!

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Originally Posted by Stanazolol

People do use it to grief even if they think they are being helpful.

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This is a contradictory statement. How can someone be helpful—even mistakenly so—but also be purposely griefing? Seems more like the healer was trying to help, and the other person was simply misconstruing their actions. As far as I’m aware, there’s no such thing as “helpfully griefing” or “griefing helpfully”.

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And all the moments I want someone to use it on me they never do.

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Pardon, but healers aren’t all-knowing or clairvoyant. If you want to be Rescued for X mechanic, perhaps tell them. Don’t expect them to be able to read your mind. This is such a silly comment to make.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Also, TOS exists. So yes, people who chase or rescue with malicious intent are viable for getting the GM hammer (when they deign to show up for work).

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EXACTLY. Rescue is fine as is, and if it is used maliciously...there's the reporting function. The instances of it being used to grief are far outweighed by the instances of it being used in it's intended capacity.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Pardon, but healers aren’t all-knowing or clairvoyant. If you want to be Rescued for X mechanic, perhaps tell them. Don’t expect them to be able to read your mind. This is such a silly comment to make.

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Seconding this. I have had people ask "could you Rescue me back to the group here" before for purposes of uptime (e.g. they know they have to leave melee range for a mechanic and have no gap-closer available), and if they actually ask, I'm usually happy to do so. Similarly, I'm happy to offer in a Susano trial "Hey, want me to do the Rescue uptime cheese, where whoever gets the stack marker and is knocked away from the group just gets Rescued right back immediately?" and if folks go "Yeah" then, hey, happy to do it!

But I am not psychic, and as I've mentioned before, Rescue is janky as hell. It is almost never going to be the first tool I try, unless I know for a fact that you're about to die. Someone with a sprout icon and the stack marker in Dun Scaith running away in a panic, for instance. Or are clearly about to kill everyone else.

(I have, on one occasion, rescued the person with the Crush Weapon exoflare prey marker in T.G.Cid away from the group at the last second when it became clear they were oblivious to the fact that they even had the marker; it killed me along with them, but the alternative was killing everyone else, and 2 deaths seemed less catastrophic than 7 would have been...)

If we're four pulls in and you consistently cannot get out of the bad in time, I may start eying the Rescue button thoughtfully, sure. But if you're hoping that I'll Rescue you unasked right out of the gate in the first pull, I guarantee you that you will be disappointed because the chances I will do that on my own without being asked are functionally nonexistent. As mentioned, most healers -- myself included -- don't really particularly like Rescue due to both the jank and the general ire it tends to prompt; even if it's the only tool we're given for certain scenarios, most healers I know will still avoid using it whenever possible.

I use Rescue a minimum of 3 times a night on Yilan to people who still can't learn to not stand in his Glare spell (or Mousse Princess). Guess I better let them die to appease the pearl-clutching gatekeepers on the forums. All guaranteed deaths I can prevent with one click.

Don’t stand in avoidable attacks, especially ones that will instantly kill you if I don’t intervene, and I won’t have ever have to use Rescue in combat then.

Rescue is fine and it can come in handy. I see the occasional mistake (not worse than a dps standing in stupid) but no malicious use.

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Originally Posted by vetch

Here's a person who's never rescued a melee DPS back to the boss for better uptime after they had to run away to drop an AOE marker.

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Why have I never thought of this. Brilliant

To some, apparently dying is better vs saving their healer’s 2.4k MP. /s

I’m aware we’re close to limitless in mana pool under general circumstances, but c’mon… lmao.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

To some, apparently dying is better vs saving their healer’s 2.4k MP. /s

I’m aware we’re close to limitless in mana pool under general circumstances, but c’mon… lmao.

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Honestly, given how rarely GCD heals get used in serious content, I feel like spending Swiftcast potentially hurts more than the MP does. :P

(That said, if multiple people are down, the MP bill starts to get painful.)

You know what else is griefing? Going into a fight and then proceeding to put minimal effort into dealing damage. Yeah. Like just make it take as long as possible for your party to clear the content. That's griefing. Should be remove it from the game? Oh wait, no! YOU CAN'T! Actually, technically you aren't even supposed to TELL when someone is griefing in this manner. But alas...

Let's say you COULD tell when someone is griefing with the method I mentioned earlier. What would your reaction be? I'm guessing you, like any other normal person, would simple make the perfectly rational and reasonable decision to remove that player from your party, and just simply not play with them again. Easy, right?

DO THE SAME THING WITH HEALERS WHO ABUSE RESCUE!

NOBODY IS ABUSING RESCUE. IF THEY DO, KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY! EASY SOLUTION. Also I know you're a troll, and that this whole-ass thread was done as a joke, but I felt like explaining this out anyway just to show how dumb you are.

EDIT: Another example of griefing - you know those AoE tank busters in dungeons? Just waltz over to the healer as a tank, and make sure they get hit as well. What's next? You gonna complain that tank busters should be removed because people are griefing with it? Or are you gonna STOP BEING A LITTLE BABY and just KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY?

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Honestly, given how rarely GCD heals get used in serious content, I feel like spending Swiftcast potentially hurts more than the MP does. :P

(That said, if multiple people are down, the MP bill starts to get painful.)

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I get that loud and clear since I use swiftcast as a part of my WHM DPS rotation. I often will not have it up to raise if someone dies, if I use it like that.

As for the MP bill with multiple raising, it's not too bad since you can use thin air, and lucid dreaming. I know, since I got called out for "not doing anything" in a raid, even though I was literally raising multiple people, because I had "too much MP" or something along those lines. Posted about it in the duty finder thread.

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Originally Posted by Zaniel

I use Rescue a minimum of 3 times a night on Yilan to people who still can't learn to not stand in his Glare spell (or Mousse Princess). Guess I better let them die to appease the pearl-clutching gatekeepers on the forums. All guaranteed deaths I can prevent with one click.

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Sometimes it's better to let them die so they learn. And the problem with the one click is you can't save all 3 people that need to be saved.

The problem with Yilan is that Rescue only works if you use it before Mini-Light finishes casting. That can be difficult depending on where you end up relative to them after the forced march. Once they're debuffed, nothing will save them if Yilan targets them. It will chase them down just as Supay would chase players who were petrified by her gaze mechanic.

It's definitely much easier to use with Mousse Princess but you need to be far enough away and time it with the flail cast end so they don't automarch back into range as the cast ends.

Another place I use it would be on non-tanks for Petalodus's Tidal Guillotine. Tanks can usually take the hit and knock up where it can kill DPS and healers.

(You probably know these things, the descriptions are to benefit those who don't.)

Still, I'm not a fan of an ability that is very sensitive to latency ("oops, thought I had you out in time"), gives the healer the presumed responsibility for saving a player when the player should have saved themselves, and ends up used for griefing as often as not. Want to design an encounter where Rescue plays an important role? Great, make it a Duty Action so it's only available when it's intended to be used..

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

You know what else is griefing? Going into a fight and then proceeding to put minimal effort into dealing damage. Yeah. Like just make it take as long as possible for your party to clear the content. That's griefing. Should be remove it from the game? Oh wait, no! YOU CAN'T! Actually, technically you aren't even supposed to TELL when someone is griefing in this manner. But alas...

Let's say you COULD tell when someone is griefing with the method I mentioned earlier. What would your reaction be? I'm guessing you, like any other normal person, would simple make the perfectly rational and reasonable decision to remove that player from your party, and just simply not play with them again. Easy, right?

DO THE SAME THING WITH HEALERS WHO ABUSE RESCUE!

NOBODY IS ABUSING RESCUE. IF THEY DO, KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY! EASY SOLUTION. Also I know you're a troll, and that this whole-ass thread was done as a joke, but I felt like explaining this out anyway just to show how dumb you are.

EDIT: Another example of griefing - you know those AoE tank busters in dungeons? Just waltz over to the healer as a tank, and make sure they get hit as well. What's next? You gonna complain that tank busters should be removed because people are griefing with it? Or are you gonna STOP BEING A LITTLE BABY and just KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY?

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Kicking a healer can be rough since the window is so small.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Kicking a healer can be rough since the window is so small.

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It is rare, but I have had some success with getting rid of AFK DPS or an AFK healer in 24-mans by first bringing up in party chat that they’re AFK; and then, if loot is opened, I have very rarely gotten the other two to wait before pulling the next boss for the loot to expire to allow us to kick. It doesn’t work every time, though, sadly. Especially if we’re in something like CT or Void Ark because apparently it’s just okay to carry someone not doing anything.

Not sure how well it would work if you brought up a healer that kept purposely using this skill to kill people on the times it happens.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It is rare, but I have had some success with getting rid of AFK DPS or an AFK healer in 24-mans by first bringing up in party chat that they’re AFK; and then, if loot is opened, I have very rarely gotten the other two to wait before pulling the next boss for the loot to expire to allow us to kick. It doesn’t work every time, though, sadly. Especially if we’re in something like CT or Void Ark because apparently it’s just okay to carry someone not doing anything.

Not sure how well it would work if you brought up a healer that kept purposely using this skill to kill people on the times it happens.

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True, in truth if someone asked me to stop pulling because a healer was using rescue to kill people I most likely would let it go unless for some reason it lead to a wipe. Generally even with someone AFK most the time I just go vroom vrooom and just speed blitz everything I rarely wait out the timer for a kick tbh. Not worth the time imo rather just carry the dead weight and be on my Mary way.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

As for the MP bill with multiple raising, it's not too bad since you can use thin air, and lucid dreaming. I know, since I got called out for "not doing anything" in a raid, even though I was literally raising multiple people, because I had "too much MP" or something along those lines. Posted about it in the duty finder thread.

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Yeah. I ended up going SGE this tier (my co-healer wanted to try AST instead of SCH, so it was my turn to be barrier healer), which meant I ran a lot of stuff as SGE instead of WHM just habitually, even outside of savage. So I often didn't have Thin Air (though what they call "Thin Air" now is like... imitation diet Thin Air Lite; it is but a pale shadow of its former glory), but even just topping someone off with a charge of addersgall after getting them back up did a lot to erase that MP cost.

Still, a group sufficiently determined to really turn content into a series of unfortunate events -- or just unfortunate deaths -- can still deplete a healer's MP. Especially if one of those repeatedly on the ground is the other healer.

I mean, I had a run of Mothercrystal in trial roulette where I got to use healer LB3 three times. In the same pull. The number of rezzes I got to cast in addition to those those LB3s was what I might politely term "breathtakingly large"; for once, my MP was crying mercy. I actually used Super-Ethers, because I happened to have some in my inventory.

(At one point someone commented in party chat, "I'm really glad this fight doesn't have an enrage.")

I rescue tank who run away from player-made puddle.


I rescue stack-marker who is far away from the group, unless it is a stack-marker for tank.


I rescue hapless DPS who think a tank-buster is not AoE and decide to stack on tank.



If anything, I wish to have the ability to push people away, so that I can push one stack-marker during double stack-markers away from the group before they kill everyone.

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Originally Posted by Momo_Kozuki

I rescue tank who run away from player-made puddle.

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I've rescued tanks into Sacred Soil during a mob pull in the Dead Ends.

Tank got really mad and said I was ruining his DPS.

Honestly, Rescue for me is this:
https://i.imgur.com/ByBYBxk.gif

...also, is it okay to post Zangief? Is he against the ToS? :| Legit asking here, because uh... attire and all that.

I’ve been playing this game for 4 years, and not once have I ever seen anyone use rescue to grief. Every single time I’ve been rescued was because the healer was genuinely trying to save me from a mechanic I messed up the timing of. I don’t know what hell world you’re on where this is rampant, but I have never seen this happen.

As a Tank I hate getting randomly rescued by healers, I wish there was an option to opt out of it. However the cases that it saves lives outweighs the cases that it causes deaths so I guess it's fine as it is.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

You know what else is griefing? Going into a fight and then proceeding to put minimal effort into dealing damage. Yeah. Like just make it take as long as possible for your party to clear the content. That's griefing. Should be remove it from the game? Oh wait, no! YOU CAN'T! Actually, technically you aren't even supposed to TELL when someone is griefing in this manner. But alas...

Let's say you COULD tell when someone is griefing with the method I mentioned earlier. What would your reaction be? I'm guessing you, like any other normal person, would simple make the perfectly rational and reasonable decision to remove that player from your party, and just simply not play with them again. Easy, right?

DO THE SAME THING WITH HEALERS WHO ABUSE RESCUE!

NOBODY IS ABUSING RESCUE. IF THEY DO, KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY! EASY SOLUTION. Also I know you're a troll, and that this whole-ass thread was done as a joke, but I felt like explaining this out anyway just to show how dumb you are.

EDIT: Another example of griefing - you know those AoE tank busters in dungeons? Just waltz over to the healer as a tank, and make sure they get hit as well. What's next? You gonna complain that tank busters should be removed because people are griefing with it? Or are you gonna STOP BEING A LITTLE BABY and just KICK THEM FROM THE PARTY?

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How do I kick the person who pulls me into ancient flare on LoTA? It's the last fight of the raid so by the time combat finishes and I'm able to kick again the duty is over.
How do I kick someone who pulls me into the pit on Dhon Mheg? It's the same situation, last boss fight and there's no chance to kick them until after the duty is over because that's the last fight in the duty when most troll rescues happen.
What about in Trials? there's no opportunity to kick in those unless the group wipes.
In most of these cases, kicking isn't an option, you just have to tough it out with an actively malicious player who can pull you to your death or into a mechanic every 2 minutes if they feel like it. There's absolutely no recourse for a player who's falling victim to it when it's being abused.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

How do I kick the person who pulls me into ancient flare on LoTA? It's the last fight of the raid so by the time combat finishes and I'm able to kick again the duty is over.
How do I kick someone who pulls me into the pit on Dhon Mheg? It's the same situation, last boss fight and there's no chance to kick them until after the duty is over because that's the last fight in the duty when most troll rescues happen.
What about in Trials? there's no opportunity to kick in those unless the group wipes.
In most of these cases, kicking isn't an option, you just have to tough it out with an actively malicious player who can pull you to your death or into a mechanic every 2 minutes if they feel like it. There's absolutely no recourse for a player who's falling victim to it when it's being abused.

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What the fuck are you doing to be rescue griefed so much? How is it that you're getting rescue griefed like 85% more than the entire XIV population lol? Maybe at some point it's just you

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Originally Posted by Padudu

What the fuck are you doing to be rescue griefed so much? How is it that you're getting rescue griefed like 85% more than the entire XIV population lol? Maybe at some point it's just you

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I'm just playing the game, usually on tank when it happens. It's my fault that people decide they want to be trolls and yank me around?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I'm just playing the game, usually on tank when it happens. It's my fault that people decide they want to be trolls and yank me around?

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It must be, I'd love to know what it is you experience in your gameplay. Being rescued by a healer is an extremely rare occurance, even rarer for it to be to your detriment. Sure it can happen but it is one of the most rare occurances in the game. I would love to see gameplay evidence of this if it is happening often to you.

If we start to remove features like rescue because of griefing, we better start with chat.

Just because some bad apples use it to troll ppl, it doesn't need to be removed. In my experience, 99% of the times I have seen rescues, it was to save ppl's asses. Also, sometimes the ping makes a rescue that would save someone's life, kill them.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I'm just playing the game, usually on tank when it happens. It's my fault that people decide they want to be trolls and yank me around?

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Dude I mained tank for literally the longest time when I started this game, had no idea how to play tank, and even finished EW as tank. I cannot recall a single time I've ever been griefed by like.. anyone. And the one time I did have a problem the party votekicked.

Do you know the saying "if you think everyone around you is the jerk, it might be time to reevaluate your own behavior?" yeah, that might apply here lol. I literally cannot see why you would be getting rescue griefed so much if there wasn't already beef between you and the healer

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

<snip>

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I'd suggest cutting down on the cheese sir, you realise it gives you nightmares right? =(

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Originally Posted by Asako

It must be, I'd love to know what it is you experience in your gameplay. Being rescued by a healer is an extremely rare occurance, even rarer for it to be to your detriment. Sure it can happen but it is one of the most rare occurances in the game. I would love to see gameplay evidence of this if it is happening often to you.

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It's probably even rarer to get rescued on a tank because most healers know that even if you get hit by a mechanic you're not gonna die.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

What the fuck are you doing to be rescue griefed so much? How is it that you're getting rescue griefed like 85% more than the entire XIV population lol? Maybe at some point it's just you

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I suspect that even if people believe they are Rescue-trolled four out of every five duties they queue into, the reality is probably nowhere close to that. Even when I'm not playing the healer, I don't see Rescue used at all that frequently, much less to troll.

However. It is worth noting that human beings are notoriously bad at actually judging percentage/frequency of things at the best of times, and even worse if the scenario is in any way an emotionally charged one. They've done studies on this.

If you run 15 duties in the space of 3 days, and have Rescue used on you in even two of them, two months later, likely all you'll remember is "I got Rescue used on me more than once in a really short time." and over time it inflates in your mind to be way more frequent. So while I'm sure some folks are exaggerating the frequency for dramatic effect, I also have no doubt others genuinely believe it to be as frequent as they suggest it is.

However, I suspect that anyone who genuinely believes it happens to them in, like, 4 out of every 5 things they run... if they kept a spreadsheet for a week, just one line each time they have "Duty Commenced", and when finished they put a checkmark next to it if they had Rescue used on them? I suspect they'd be genuinely surprised at the percentage being far lower than they thought.

And sure, in some cases I can write it off as "maybe things are different in that data center", but VerdeLuck (for instance) is in Primal with me, and I genuinely have to think back really hard to when I last had Rescue used on me. And while, yes, I am a healer main -- which means generally I am the determining factor on whether or not Rescue can be used, or 50% of the determining factor in larger group content -- I finished leveling all my healers ages ago, and so I've been running mostly non-healer jobs for the past 2-ish months outside of actual stuff-with-the-static as I leveled everything else to 90. And I can't think of any instance of Rescue being used on me in that time, save for once when someone fat-fingered the button and apologized profusely in party chat immediately afterwards.

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Originally Posted by elizeugba

If we start to remove features like rescue because of griefing, we better start with chat.

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I mean...

[1. WAR] { Hello! }
[1. WAR] { Push the crystal! }
[2. SGE] { Push the crystal! }

[ ...match ends with loss, half the team having been in Narnia for the entire time... ]

[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Nice job! }
[4. DRG] { Thank you! }
* DRG has left the instance.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

True, in truth if someone asked me to stop pulling because a healer was using rescue to kill people I most likely would let it go unless for some reason it lead to a wipe. Generally even with someone AFK most the time I just go vroom vrooom and just speed blitz everything I rarely wait out the timer for a kick tbh. Not worth the time imo rather just carry the dead weight and be on my Mary way.

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I’m petty enough to do /sit and wait out loot timers to kick people that are leeching. Or help organize an entire alliance-wide wipe like I did last night in Orbonne for a BLM that decided he deserved his Moogle Tomes for free. I can’t stand leechers and deadweights.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

How is it that you're getting rescue griefed like 85% more than the entire XIV population lol? Maybe at some point it's just you

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Well, you know what they say: if everyone around you smells like poo, perhaps you should check the bottom of your own shoe.

That said, I think they just have a negative bias and are blowing the actual amount of times they’ve been Rescued with an intention to grief way out of proportion. There are people in this thread have have insisted every use of Rescue is griefing “even if the healer was trying to help”, so that may also be the case here, too.

In the four+ years Rescue has been active, I can count on one hand how many times I was rescued by a random healer. I was rescued more by my static’s co-healer during prog to break the healer LB3 animation.

Rescue doesn't grief people
People grief people

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I’m petty enough to do /sit and wait out loot timers to kick people that are leeching. Or help organize an entire alliance-wide wipe like I did last night in Orbonne for a BLM that decided he deserved his Moogle Tomes for free. I can’t stand leechers and deadweights.



Well, you know what they say: if everyone around you smells like poo, perhaps you should check the bottom of your own shoe.

That said, I think they just have a negative bias and are blowing the actual amount of times they’ve been Rescued with an intention to grief way out of proportion. There are people in this thread have have insisted every use of Rescue is griefing “even if the healer was trying to help”, so that may also be the case here, too.

In the four+ years Rescue has been active, I can count on one hand how many times I was rescued by a random healer. I was rescued more by my static’s co-healer during prog to break the healer LB3 animation.

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More power to ya, I can be petty bur generally I rather do the content and be free from that inner circle of hell.

I get where you are coming from though.

On the topic of the other person even if they get pulled 10 out of 10 runs every 2 min it is still such a small amount in the grand scheme it is kinda zzz to even use their experience as a staple.