Japanese FFXIV streamer receives a suspension for using add-ons.

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Originally Posted by GaiusDrakon

Hah, that already happened multiple times on the forums.

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so says the master baiter

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Have you literally ever raided Ultimate

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Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

It should not matter whether they are "keeping it secret" or not, some things are worth reporting for. This ain't it, fam.

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"No one should have to follow rules I don't like." ; ;

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

no they were pretty vague on purpose and now it's coming back to bite them

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coming back to bite the mod users stupid enough to stream with them

heh. This is like someone complaining on facebook that the cops are stupid because they fined him for speeding, not wearing a helmet and not having his license xD

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

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And why banning people for such tools ?

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

people generally don't care for bootlicking, so that is probably where it is coming from

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And the people who don't like bootlicking will get banned if they stream with their addons. How unfortunate for them.

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

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I think tracking other peoples' CDs is for the purpose of coordinating efforts. Like if a tank doesn't have a defensive CD then the healers know to pay extra attention to that tank. DPS meters can show deficiencies in a specific player's DPS and can be an indicator that the player needs to improve in certain areas. I'd say these mods are more about situational awareness and improving one's abilities rather than just "barking orders at other people."

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

You're right he wasn't. You'd be hard pressed to find a single person in this game who is, and it all comes down to getting the "Eye of Sauron" treatment.

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You have a dismal opinion of other players, probably from browsing forums or reddit and, perhaps, hanging out with your own friend group. The vast, vast majority of the playerbase logs on, plays happily with their friends (or alone), and logs off at the end of the day without doing anything that violates the TOS, even without knowing what is in said TOS. Most players don't know about mods at all. Most players, especially in the age of Discord, don't type swear words "off the cuff" in a moment of ridiculous anger in a video game, whether at random strangers or otherwise, because one actually has to think the word and then choose to type it rather than just saying it.

Heck, even outside of the game, you can see that in, say, a grocery store, where people are rarely just randomly cursing in bouts of anger at strangers who happen to be choosing produce or whatever, and the people who are cursing randomly are recognized by everyone around them as... you know, kinda off, and tend to be avoided. They sometimes even get thrown out of the store.

Anyway, the vast, vast majority of players will never be banned or have their accounts actioned even if a malicious group of people report them; it's far more likely a group targeting an innocent player will all be actioned themselves.

It's time to stop making excuses for people who blatantly, recorded, and in public flout the rules.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I think tracking other peoples' CDs is for the purpose of coordinating efforts. Like if a tank doesn't have a defensive CD then the healers know to pay extra attention to that tank. DPS meters can show deficiencies in a specific player's DPS and can be an indicator that the player needs to improve in certain areas. I'd say these mods are more about situational awareness and improving one's abilities rather than just "barking orders at other people."

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As a healer.. I literally just pay attn to my tanks. I know when they don't have their cds and roughly when I can expect it to be back up in the fight say if we are in savage (he used his 30% for x mech it should be back by y) , this all without communication. Simple voice chat and your tank can simply tell you.

Don't care either way if someone were to use a plug in to track those but honestly I find a lot of the plug ins just erase some simple skill checks the game asks of you. Such as the slide casting overlay that one streamer had in his video that was removed. Knowing WHEN you can slide cast and not f up your gcd is a form of skill expression that the overlay just erases. You don't need a brain you just need eyes staring at your cast bar waiting for it to go in the highlighted bit.
Similar story for cactbot call outs, esp ones when you cannot even see the in game tell yet. It's not like a raid leader at all, it is superior and removes yet more needed brainpower from you, dumbing down the game further. And again in everything but a world first race I don't really care. If it makes more content accessible to more people cool, but don't expect to use all these 3rd party aids to win a world race and still get a pat on the back when you had a dozen things supporting your prog that other teams did not. Being able to remember hidden mechs, see and react to other mechanics is part of the skill and they remove A LOT of that with 3rd party. Like one Zepla showed of a plugin making HIDDEN aoe's visible by adding in aoe markers that are not there normally in game.

PC players making the game significantly easier for themselves than console players and in world race context that is unacceptable to do if u seriously expect to take first place and get your thumbs up from Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

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"Why does your car have a speedometer? If you're going fast you know it"

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Originally Posted by Folsom

You have a dismal opinion of other players, probably from browsing forums or reddit and, perhaps, hanging out with your own friend group. The vast, vast majority of the playerbase logs on, plays happily with their friends (or alone), and logs off at the end of the day without doing anything that violates the TOS, even without knowing what is in said TOS. Most players don't know about mods at all. Most players, especially in the age of Discord, don't type swear words "off the cuff" in a moment of ridiculous anger in a video game, whether at random strangers or otherwise, because one actually has to think the word and then choose to type it rather than just saying it.

Heck, even outside of the game, you can see that in, say, a grocery store, where people are rarely just randomly cursing in bouts of anger at strangers who happen to be choosing produce or whatever, and the people who are cursing randomly are recognized by everyone around them as... you know, kinda off, and tend to be avoided. They sometimes even get thrown out of the store.

Anyway, the vast, vast majority of players will never be banned or have their accounts actioned even if a malicious group of people report them; it's far more likely a group targeting an innocent player will all be actioned themselves.

It's time to stop making excuses for people who blatantly, recorded, and in public flout the rules.

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The rules which were basically. "hey don't do this, but at the same time we won't do anything about it as long as you aren't toxic"

Then on a whim, they changed their mind and made an example out of some random streamer because people were crying about PvP and world first races.

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

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Real talk, what's with the constant chanting of this line by people that don't even participate in that kind of content? Like what place of experience are you actually trying to speak from?

The reality is, when it comes to top-end content, the way is often paved by people making heavy use of third-party tools. Even if you don't use third-party tools yourself, A LOT of the information you interact with is derived by people who DO. Optimal rotation, mit charts, and even strats are frequently solved and troubleshot with the assistance of logging tools. A lot of groups vying for world first use these types of tools, and the difficulty of the content itself has evolved to reflect that.

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

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I'm confident you don't raid if you don't understand why this is a useful thing to have.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Real talk, what's with the constant chanting of this line by people that don't even participate in that kind of content? Like what place of experience are you actually trying to speak from?

The reality is, when it comes to top-end content, the way is often paved by people making heavy use of third-party tools. Even if you don't use third-party tools yourself, A LOT of the information you interact with is derived by people who DO. Optimal rotation, mit charts, and even strats are frequently solved and troubleshot with the assistance of logging tools. A lot of groups vying for world first use these types of tools, and the difficulty of the content itself has evolved to reflect that.



I'm confident you don't raid if you don't understand why this is a useful thing to have.

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Let's all remember to thank our local modders for solving every ultimate (yes, all of them) and goading Square into finally adding some better UI in the future.

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Originally Posted by Klytania

"Why does your car have a speedometer? If you're going fast you know it"

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Estimated miles left? Why? You'll know when it's empty.

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Originally Posted by Klytania

The rules which were basically. "hey don't do this, but at the same time we won't do anything about it as long as you aren't toxic"

Then on a whim, they changed their mind and made an example out of some random streamer because people were crying about PvP and world first races.

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That is not what happened, no. SE has never indicated that they condone blatant, recorded, public breaking of rules. Additionally, they've always noted that, while they don't look for such things, players should be discreet if they break the rules because they will respond to reports of violated rules.

Incidentally, this is exactly how complaint-based Code Enforcement works in most North American cities and counties, too (others do active code enforcement, but most don't have the money or time for that). You can break rules to your hearts content as long as your doing so doesn't bother anyone else. The moment it does, however, you get slapped with a fine, just like you get slapped with a suspension in game. Unsurprisingly, "but you haven't enforced this before" never works as an excuse for why you should be able to continue to break the rules there, either. The company and the municipalities don't write the rules for nothing, after all.

The solution is easy. Don't break the rules in public. If you can't manage that, enjoy the potential for having your account actioned, as everything thereafter is on you and you alone.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...fo94jkf181.png

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I know this is a running joke and all, but to be fair, with context in place we are probably more deserving of that award- because I've seen worse; so much more vile communities in other mmorpg's. xD

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Same rules, 0 enforcement until now. lol This entire situation is on SE and the player base, honestly.

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I like to think it’s been more like:

SE: Guys, don’t do anything to force our hand. If you’re gonna use mods, for gods sake don’t tell anyone.
Rando Streamer blatantly uses mods
Rando mob reports
SE: G’d it guys, we said don’t do it
Rando Mob: OMG GMs don’t enforce da rulez! Wtf!
SE: …fine
SE bans
All hell breaks loose.

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

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So, remember old Living Dead? Do you think it might be useful to know whether, say, your WHM's Benediction is on cooldown?

We're not even talking hardcore play, necessarily. It's just nice to be able to see, for instance, how long until the next Trick Attack (less important now that they're all 2 min), whether Hallowed Ground has come back up, etc., without each ability-user having to sacrifice the ability to queue one's those actions due to the game's hamstrung macro support in order to (annoyingly, in most cases) add bongo drums or the like to when their skills refresh.

Consider also:

• We used to be able to see many stacks of Aetherflow our SCH had. There was party list icon for it.
• We used to, to some degree, be able to see when a PuG co-healer was going to go for the heal or expected you to do so. There was a party list icon correlative to it (at least for its first 5 seconds).
• There is now far more information to be tracked than back then and greater expectation to act according to and within available windows and interactions, but also a lower percentage of that would-be information able to be tracked at all via the default interface.

As usual, XIV community is conflating disingenuous points to justify their toxic "holier-than-thou" mentality.

Nobody is trying to argue that addons aren't against TOS, because the TOS is so vague, that you could argue a great many things (Discord being the popular example) are against TOS. However, there are clearly some addons which are purely QoL or used as a tool to measure self-improvement and provide data on what went wrong and how to correct it.

If you are someone who says that because it's against TOS it's warranted, you are willfully ignoring the toxic mentality of the mass reporting and pettiness that should be the real problem. But I guess being toxic is okay as long as it suits your agenda, right?

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

So please try your strawman somewhere else.

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Yoshi-P himself said, that programs like Discord, Excel & Co. technically touch the ToS. They are aware of it, that their ToS is very unsharp in this point and a huge grey area exists. :)


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

WELP. They're definitely sharing, streaming may not be "talking" about it, but you're letting literally millions of people potentially see it, and I mean.....you can track someone's cooldowns? And you're using ACT? What reason are you using those mods other than *to* shame someone?

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The easiest case in point:

I'm a healer, my swift cast is down, someone else promptly eats a marker and dies.

A) We both say 'no swiftcast' on TS, I start hard casting the raise without the need to wait.

B) I spot their swiftcast is on CD, I start the hard cast raise without the need to wait.

These both use a 3rd party program to quickly let me gauge information I 'shouldn't' be privy to which in turn helps me make a decision quicker to gain an advantage in content.

Yet one is absolutely fine, the other is a 10 day ban and a permanent mark on your account.

Why?

Unfortunately there are a lot of people in the FFXIV community who insist on hunting down and trying to 'punish' players for all sorts of weird reasons. I've had to get in touch with the authorities both in-game and outside of it at various points to help deal with nutters who tried to hunt me down over liking and disliking the 'wrong' characters in the story. So I don't doubt that the efforts to get streamers banned for using third party addons is little more than feigned concern.

what are the chances people will mass report statics during the next ult race to gain an advantage or just because it will be funny?

Next step ban gaming mouse and keyboard users, my gaming mouse technically cheat, it can do guaranteed double wave all the time.
Also ban stop watch / alarm users, important mechanics can be programmed on your phone with sound alert (arguably better than 3rd party) because you can select important ones.
Ban post-it users they take notes about important mechanics and time lines and stick to monitor.

Feels like "SE opens Pandora's box" and clueless what they will do next :3

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The easiest case in point:

I'm a healer, my swift cast is down, someone else promptly eats a marker and dies.

A) We both say 'no swiftcast' on TS, I start hard casting the raise without the need to wait.

B) I spot their swiftcast is on CD, I start the hard cast raise without the need to wait.

These both use a 3rd party program to quickly let me gauge information I 'shouldn't' be privy to which in turn helps me make a decision quicker to gain an advantage in content.

Yet one is absolutely fine, the other is a 10 day ban and a permanent mark on your account.

Why?

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I'll bite. Case A has you obtain the information directly from another player without using a tool that modifies the game.
Case B has the information displayed to you by reading it directly from game files in the form that natively isn't available to you.

Let me ask you this. You need 100$. You can either:
A) Ask your friend to lend that sum, promising to rerurn it once you're able
B) Take it from their wallet without asking, deciding to put insame amount back once you can.
Both will net you 100$ but only one is socially acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I'll bite. Case A has you obtain the information directly from another player without using a tool that modifies the game.
Case B has the information displayed to you by reading it directly from game files in the form that natively isn't available to you.

Let me ask you this. You need 100$. You can either:
A) Ask your friend to lend that sum, promising to rerurn it once you're able
B) Take it from their wallet without asking, deciding to put insame amount back once you can.
Both will net you 100$ but only one is socially acceptable.

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What an asinine analogy.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

What an asinine analogy.

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Why thank you.

But speaking seriously and without dumb analogies this time around. Case A in post I cited is a byproduct of socializing within the game and working towards common goal. We share informations with one another be it by chat or voice chat in order to better coordinate our actions. In second case we forgo social aspect and modify the game files to give us access to information on other player that is by design hidden from us. Similar end doesn't equalize the means of reaching it.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

I'll bite. Case A has you obtain the information directly from another player without using a tool that modifies the game.
Case B has the information displayed to you by reading it directly from game files in the form that natively isn't available to you.

Let me ask you this. You need 100$. You can either:
A) Ask your friend to lend that sum, promising to rerurn it once you're able
B) Take it from their wallet without asking, deciding to put insame amount back once you can.
Both will net you 100$ but only one is socially acceptable.

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Eh, that's not socially acceptable because B is literal theft. That's not what's happening here. Claiming one method is providing data to me that's not natively available is kind of false too. Both methods are doing this, one is via voice, the other is via my UI. And then there's the disparity in stances between both of them which is arguably the biggest issue here.

A fairer comparison would be a workplace rota. I want to schedule a task to be done on a specific day.

A) My colleagues tell me who's in. I plan accordingly.

B) I look at the rota and plan accordingly.

The game files narrative that's being pushed is a bad take because it ignores using things like hotkey software to avoid the anti afk timer or sit around auto crafting all night. Neither which need to modify the game in any way and are even further removed from the client than Steam or Discord's overlays and features, yet these are far more disruptive to the game, it's community and the economy as a whole than the UI mods that have gotten some of these streamers banned.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

what are the chances people will mass report statics during the next ult race to gain an advantage or just because it will be funny?

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I give teams reporting each other a low chance of actually happening. Your probably need a few more people than 8 to report spam and more importantly, the only thing WF racers are doing it for is for community recognition. There is no prize that you win, just clout. You will absolutely forever ruin any clout you ever had or will have if it becomes known that your team resorts to that level of fighting.

Mass reports like that happening from outside malicious forums is however always possible of course. There's no telling when they will be upset enough to start flinging reports again. These hyper toxic forums can not be trusted and SE should instruct the GMs to punish report brigades like that if they become obvious.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

tool that modifies the game.

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Defining Third Party Tools

We have received requests from players asking that we define what tools are and aren’t permissible, but to do so would require an assessment of all third-party tools available on the internet, as well as all gaming devices and their functionality. Unfortunately, such an undertaking is physically impossible, which is why we decided to simply prohibit the use of all third-party tools and software.

By the same token, it is impossible for us to check what programs are installed on every player’s PC. This is why we cannot identify and reprimand offenders 100% of the time. To offer more clarity on our process, here are a few examples of the rule violations we prioritize for investigation:

Use of tools that allow players to more easily complete content.

Modification of the UI to display additional information.*

Use of packet spoofing tools.

Any actions or public statements that promote use of third-party tools.

All reports of such activity warrant investigation, and accounts determined to be in violation of the game’s terms of service will be suspended or banned. Unless there is a significant change to the terms of service─which would be publicly announced─this rule remains as-is.


https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...0c5d56cb2e4547


At no point they are saying 3rd party tools are only ones modifying game files.

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Originally Posted by Insertusernamehere

Next step ban gaming mouse and keyboard users, my gaming mouse technically cheat, it can do guaranteed double wave all the time.
Also ban stop watch / alarm users, important mechanics can be programmed on your phone with sound alert (arguably better than 3rd party) because you can select important ones.
Ban post-it users they take notes about important mechanics and time lines and stick to monitor.

Feels like "SE opens Pandora's box" and clueless what they will do next :3

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Yes because OBVIOUSLY they can see what you're doing in your house because you're streaming all that...right? Every day, and especially during a World's First race where it had the company's attention the most?

Okay, so Yoshi gave out a lot of examples - even mentioned Discord in one of these interviews. Yes, he said no third party tools and even mentioned Discord being one of them. Who though, other than a possible overlay of chat is directly showing FFXIV interacting with the game to give them an unfair advantage? They don't usually do it because 1. They got Twitch stream going on already. 2. Most people don't exactly want to expose people's Discord information due to privacy concerns. Sure you may be part of a raid group and got their Lodestone name but not all people want you constantly badgering them on Discord as well. It's their choice who to interact with.

The other possibility of why Discord CAN get into third party tool territory is API like having the ACT bot act as a callout. So that's why Yoshi hasn't been specific because he may or may not know if people are doing that in Discord. A lot of leeway was due to the fact they can't account for every single possibility people could use with their "third party tool" in public.

It's this whataboutism that's so tiring I mean I guess people will keep trying to use it because it will reverse bans and all of SE's years of decisions on this matter ....

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Originally Posted by Matdredalia

Why do you need to know OTHER people's cooldowns? Other than to gripe at them?

Why do you need ACT? If you're putting out enough damage, you're going to know it. If you're not? You're going to know it.

If other people aren't? *They are going to know it.*

And this may shock you, but people clear top end content without mods. It's doable. Shocking, I know. But there's even evidence. Go watch the countless streams that have done it.

So. Again. Why do you need those numbers, in front of you, mid-combat? Other than to bark orders at other people.

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1.) The obvious answer is likely to track buff windows.

2.) Whether you think players "need" ACT or not, knowing the statics DPS numbers is still a helpful tool in a game with hard locked enrage timers.

3.) How are they going to know its their DPS? Without a tool to point it out they have no idea if they are doing enough or not or if they need to adjust their rotation.

4.) Sure, but it doesn't hurt to have tools to help.

5.) This may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of people using these tools are in static groups. No ones using them to "gripe" at others, especially not in PF groups because they obviously know that mentioning it would immediately be actioned against their account, not for the tool but for harassment. The reason why WoW has so many problems is the lack of enforcement from players harassing others, not the tools themselves.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

1.) The obvious answer is likely to track buff windows.

2.) Whether you think players "need" ACT or not, knowing the statics DPS numbers is still a helpful tool in a game with hard locked enrage timers.

3.) How are they going to know its their DPS? Without a tool to point it out they have no idea if they are doing enough or not or if they need to adjust their rotation.

4.) Sure, but it doesn't hurt to have tools to help.

5.) This may come as a surprise to you, but the majority of people using these tools are in static groups. No ones using them to "gripe" at others, especially not in PF groups because they obviously know that mentioning it would immediately be actioned against their account, not for the tool but for harassment. The reason why WoW has so many problems is the lack of enforcement from players harassing others, not the tools themselves.

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may be a surprise to you but all the bad reasons that players use these addons to harass belittle other players for not being good enough at their class ( tell me that doesnt happen ever ) ohh and the exploiting botting etc etc are the reasons why the devs are dropping ban hammers hard and with the influx of players there is even more people using them for the wrong reason !!

If the rules are no addons and stupid people stream with them showing then they deserve a ban !!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

The easiest case in point:

I'm a healer, my swift cast is down, someone else promptly eats a marker and dies.

A) We both say 'no swiftcast' on TS, I start hard casting the raise without the need to wait.

B) I spot their swiftcast is on CD, I start the hard cast raise without the need to wait.

These both use a 3rd party program to quickly let me gauge information I 'shouldn't' be privy to which in turn helps me make a decision quicker to gain an advantage in content.

Yet one is absolutely fine, the other is a 10 day ban and a permanent mark on your account.

Why?

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Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready" or have it macro'd.

Voicechat is simply not something that's going to get you banned because people use phones or -heaven forbid- simply play the game together in the same room.

Having software that actively reads data from the game, especially data you shouldn't be able to see (other healer's cooldown times) is very obviously different.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready" or have it macro'd.

Voicechat is simply not something that's going to get you banned because people use phones or -heaven forbid- simply play the game together in the same room.

Having software that actively reads data from the game, especially data you shouldn't be able to see (other healer's cooldown times) is very obviously different.

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This is precisely the point. I could even be playing next to my co healer and simply peer over at their hotbars quickly to see if they have Swiftcast. Once we've got the routine down I could memorise if they use swiftcast consistently at a point for movement. I could make a mental note if they got a raise recently or if I had not long heard it's fairly distinctive audio cue.

This is all a huge nothing burger, yet one of these will land you a 10 day ban etc etc.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Because you can just as easily type out "no swiftcast ready".

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As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

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Originally Posted by Scaramouche

As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

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Virtual keyboard on the PS4/5 is the worst. You should honestly invest in a wireless/wired keyboard for chat.

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Originally Posted by iluke77

may be a surprise to you but all the bad reasons that players use these addons to harass belittle other players for not being good enough at their class ( tell me that doesnt happen ever ) ohh and the exploiting botting etc etc are the reasons why the devs are dropping ban hammers hard and with the influx of players there is even more people using them for the wrong reason !!

If the rules are no addons and stupid people stream with them showing then they deserve a ban !!

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I have never in the 8 years I've been playing this game ever seen a single mention of anyone's DPS in any group chat ever. It simply is not a common occurrence in this game.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The problem, which Xenosys pointed out, is that the "new" rules are so unsharp, that you could be banned for using Discord, Teamspeak, Excel, a browser etc. And the second good point is, this player got banned for using some functionalities, which the devs themself find good and want to implement them into the game later. That is very inconsequent, imho.

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If SE make a clear and explicit list of third party programs that are unacceptable, the Mental Gymnasts and Sophists Club will respond with "Well, it's not on that list so it must be ok even though it's against the spirit of the rule.". Just because someone doesn't explicitly say doing something is wrong, doesn't mean it's ok to do when it's abundantly clear that it's against the intent of the rule if not the most technical definition of it.

With that in mind, SE have to be as broad as possible in order to have ground to stand on when they enforce things. I think we can all agree that using Discord as a voice communication platform is WELL within acceptable limits per the spirit and intent of the rule. Voice chat's been used since before I started playing online games in the late 90s and is a core application for many online gamers. In and of itself, VOIP doesn't modify the game files in any way nor provide any automated services or other advantage. A person still has to make callouts with reaction time limited by human ability. It's not putting a marker on the ground where there shouldn't be one. It's not reading game files or information to give the player additional information the base UI doesn't. It's a conference call through a headset.

It's unfortunate that he brought Discord up, but we all know someone would say "But, Discord's third party, it's banned!" etc, etc, etc. For anyone familiar with Japanese communication, the message was pretty clear: Voice chat's ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scaramouche

As a ps4 player I have to

click 1 or 2 times touch pad
press right pad
press circle
press triangle
Go to every letter 1 by 1
press R2
press circle


All that without being able to move/attack while the virtual keyboard cover a good chunk of my screen.

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As Vahlnir said below you, invest in a wireless keyboard. I did a while ago, and it saves tons of time when trying to type out anything because that virtual keyboard is trash and prevents you form doing anything else. At least with a wireless keyboard you can still move to avoid mechanics if need be.

Even a $20 one will work. Just keep it beside your chair, and turn it off when you're done for the night(I recharge mine once every couple weeks).