Stop complaining. You wanted this.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

The Vocal majority wanted a lottery and we got it. Now people want a whole new system it hasn't even been a month.

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The sensible majority wanted more equitable access to the housing system. They wanted SE to address the fundamental supply problem with a long-term solution; fully instanced housing.

The lottery solution was another attempt at keeping the limited ward system on life support.

You would think after nearly 10 years, SE would realize that persisting with the limited ward house system is not working out for the majority of players.

Stop blaming players for SE being short-sighted.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your sentiment and wish more people held it.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Does it address the glaring scarcity issues that incentivize RMT? Oh hell no. It does, however, address some of the shortcomings of the existing system. It's (hopefully) a stopgap.

It sorta put a stop to the casual RMT participants. Sadly it was a gimme for the hardcore element. Maybe, maybe, they'll give instanced housing some more serious consideration if they're not already working on it.

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It's more like putting a band-aid on a corpse.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

The sensible majority wanted more equitable access to the housing system. They wanted SE to address the fundamental supply problem with a long-term solution; fully instanced housing.

The lottery solution was another attempt at keeping the limited ward system on life support.

You would think after nearly 10 years, SE would realize that persisting with the limited ward house system is not working out for the majority of players.

Stop blaming players for SE being short-sighted.

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You are missing the point entirely. Even in your own words "You would think after nearly 10 years" If SE gave a hoot they would have had a 50/50 split. Thing about it is "Lottery" was the most shouted above all else. The system itself people are currently bashing just because yet again they did not get a house. "Shell FCs have us beat" "Shadow Realtors" look this board before you try to defend the players. There are faults from SE. Everyone can see that. Players too.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Stop blaming players for SE being short-sighted.

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They´re not short-sighted. As long as housing is that limited, SE will have more or less subs, which would´ve dropped especially in the meantime of content-lacks. So players continue to pay without even playing, just to not to lose their hard earned housing. It´s nothing but a smart and simple way to bind players on a game, meanwhile others use battlepass systems or free stuff here and there. Easy money-making.

EDIT: In that kind of thinking the lottery-system is even better for them. Noone wants to risk to lose a house now since it´ll be way harder to get a new one than it was in the past.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

The Vocal majority wanted a lottery and we got it. Now people want a whole new system it hasn't even been a month.

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No, they didn't. It was a vocal minority asking for the lottery. The "vocal" discussion here in the forum was pretty evenly split between those suggesting lottery and those pointing out that a lottery doesn't solve anything.

We don't actually know what the majority wanted because the majority, as usual, said nothing at all. Most players don't give feedback at all. They just go with the flow and play the game.

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Originally Posted by Valodion

I spent many hours fighting against bots clicking placards .... one lottery and I got a house. Guess I'm just really lucky, but the new system worked for me.

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It wasn't the lottery that worked for you.

It was SE adding 1440 new plots to every world.

Imagine if the lottery had started this week but there was no new housing district. Even with demolition active, it's rare to see more than a dozen houses become available each week. With it suspended the number would be more like 2 or 3.

How would your luck have faired if instead of only needing to compete against a half dozen players, you were competing against 3,000 players trying to get one of 8 plots?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It wasn't the lottery that worked for you.

It was SE adding 1440 new plots to every world.

Imagine if the lottery had started this week but there was no new housing district. Even with demolition active, it's rare to see more than a dozen houses become available each week. With it suspended the number would be more like 2 or 3.

How would your luck have faired if instead of only needing to compete against a half dozen players, you were competing against 3,000 players trying to get one of 8 plots?

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Honestly waiting for the next lottery to see the salt mine that's going to be. Lots of these people thought the "lottery" would be "OH SO GREAT." When all i read was "prepare to have your chances to get a plot reduced to basically 0, LOL."

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

Honestly waiting for the next lottery to see the salt mine that's going to be. Lots of these people thought the "lottery" would be "OH SO GREAT." When all i read was "prepare to have your chances to get a plot reduced to basically 0, LOL."

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I didn't have any expectations of winning a house (surprise I didn't), but the lottery system actually let me engage in the housing system again which I hadn't done in years after getting relocated on multiple times while clicking signs. I had no expectations of it being anything than a band-aid for the jacked up system that SE has for housing, but it is still infinitely better for me than clicking a sign ever was. I think another aspect of the disappointment in the lottery system is that only 6 wards were dedicated to personal housing and we didn't find out about it till close to the patch going live, so people had even lower odds than they probably initially were hoping.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

Honestly waiting for the next lottery to see the salt mine that's going to be. Lots of these people thought the "lottery" would be "OH SO GREAT." When all i read was "prepare to have your chances to get a plot reduced to basically 0, LOL."

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^ This man understands

The lottery was great compared to losing to bots spamming at house placards.
It's still terrible. Absolutely abominable and atrocious.
Housing for all.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

I didn't have any expectations of winning a house (surprise I didn't), but the lottery system actually let me engage in the housing system again which I hadn't done in years after getting relocated on multiple times while clicking signs. I had no expectations of it being anything than a band-aid for the jacked up system that SE has for housing, but it is still infinitely better for me than clicking a sign ever was. I think another aspect of the disappointment in the lottery system is that only 6 wards were dedicated to personal housing and we didn't find out about it till close to the patch going live, so people had even lower odds than they probably initially were hoping.

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You're also on Gilgamesh one of the highest pop NA servers, and having been on Gilgamesh in the past and gotten a house there during ShB. Also having to deal with a particular person (shell fc owner) who at the time and probably still does, own an entire ward, on paper yes the lottery is more "fair". That said, I think a lot of people fail to realize making it more accessible in this way actually lowers your odds of winning a house more than ever (even without the FC/Personal split), but a vocal minority wanted this lottery system. The only thing they did correctly "sorta" is divide the wards into FC/Personals, the split obviously sucks and should have been flipped, but I that's beating a dead horse, I think everyone universally agrees 75% FC ward and 25% personal was a mistake/slap in the face/etc.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

You're also on Gilgamesh one of the highest pop NA servers, and having been on Gilgamesh in the past and gotten a house there during ShB. Also having to deal with a particular person (shell fc owner) who at the time and probably still does, own an entire ward, on paper yes the lottery is more "fair". That said, I think a lot of people fail to realize making it more accessible in this way actually lowers your odds of winning a house more than ever (even without the FC/Personal split), but a vocal minority wanted this lottery system. The only thing they did correctly "sorta" is divide the wards into FC/Personals, the split obviously sucks and should have been flipped, but I that's beating a dead horse, I think everyone universally agrees 75% FC ward and 25% personal was a mistake/slap in the face/etc.

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The biggest reason I think it is more fair, especially on a big server like mine, is that if it were still FCFS my odds of winning a house were literally 0%. I worked the night of the patch release so I wouldn't have even been able to log on until 5 or 6 hours after the release, thus no chance at all at a house. Lottery let me have a shot which I wouldn't not have had if it wasn't there. I wasn't an advocate for changing the system initially because I had already disengaged from the system. At that point I was done spam clicking placards, but with the change to lottery it made me want to reengage with housing. As a side note, I think this is mostly an NA/EU issue as when I played on JP servers a couple years ago I had no problems just running up and grabbing a small plot. Maybe that has changed since then, but I really think the Devs are looking at this from a JP only perspective not realizing how bad housing is outside of that region. I think the rollout of housing in the Oceanic servers kind of backs up that thought as well.

About the FC ward issue, I agree, it was absolutely stupid especially to retroactively apply it to every other housing ward in the game. I'll leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

Honestly waiting for the next lottery to see the salt mine that's going to be. Lots of these people thought the "lottery" would be "OH SO GREAT." When all i read was "prepare to have your chances to get a plot reduced to basically 0, LOL."

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And the Albongus guy who we have to thank for the Lottery is chuckling now in his Lottery House :D

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Originally Posted by EthanXdeath

Honestly waiting for the next lottery to see the salt mine that's going to be. Lots of these people thought the "lottery" would be "OH SO GREAT." When all i read was "prepare to have your chances to get a plot reduced to basically 0, LOL."

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Reduced? For the new wards, if you didnt happen to have time to login the second the servers went online, you already had no chance of getting a plot. And everyone making the sensible decision of not no-living away at a newly vacated plot also had basically 0% chance of ever getting a house. The chance of getting a house is still pretty low but calling it "reduced" is just straight up incorrect for most people. You saying it's now basically 0 proves that.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

As a side note, I think this is mostly an NA/EU issue as when I played on JP servers a couple years ago I had no problems just running up and grabbing a small plot. Maybe that has changed since then, but I really think the Devs are looking at this from a JP only perspective not realizing how bad housing is outside of that region. I think the rollout of housing in the Oceanic servers kind of backs up that thought as well.

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We have housing shortage issues on JP servers too. Up through Stormblood it was relatively common to have a few plots here and there available at all times, at least on Atomos. Once the game started gaining more traction that changed, with the only plots available being the ones recently abandoned. Atomos is one of the lower population servers, globally, but even then there were always people clicking the placards....and the inevitable relocaters doing what they do. I spent the better portion of three days clicking placards and lost every one. From what I gather speaking with friends on Tonberry, the overwhelmingly highest-pop server on Elemental, getting a house "the old way" was essentially impossible barring 3rd party programs, macros, or just insane luck.

I highly doubt SE is ignorant of the issue on NA and EU servers, but they're sticking to their guns and doing it the way they want to. I expect that any FC plots not bought at the end of this round or the next will be opened to private owners. I also expect SE believes opening new servers to be enough to take the edge off.

Here's hoping against hope that Island Sanctuaries will eventually be upgraded to allow an actual, functional, personal house on them since they did mention plans for upgrading them over time. That would be the only way to ensure the entire player base has access to a house while also letting SE off the hook without having to come out, publicly apologize, and wipe the egg off their collective face.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

And the Albongus guy who we have to thank for the Lottery is chuckling now in his Lottery House :D

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Anyone who won a house doesn't give a crap. They exhausted every other option and finally won even though the system still sucks. Had a good laugh though lol

See, we could have had FCFS. But you wanted this lottery. I have a feeling more wards will open up by 6.3.

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Originally Posted by Fenril7

See, we could have had FCFS. But you wanted this lottery. I have a feeling more wards will open up by 6.3.

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Just for clarification, do you mean more wards as in opening up the FC exclusive wards to personal housing, or more wards as in adding a sub-sub-division?

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Originally Posted by Fenril7

See, we could have had FCFS. But you wanted this lottery. I have a feeling more wards will open up by 6.3.

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I doubt it will happen that soon since they're adding new worlds to EU and NA over the next 15-16 months. Adding new wards to existing worlds would reduce player incentive to transfer to the new worlds to get them populated.

I now have 0.3% of winning.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

I now have 0.3% of winning.

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Think of the silver lining. The developers now have hard numbers of the demand for housing in the game. Never underestimate the value of data for making decisions by organizations!

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Originally Posted by Lieri

I now have 0.3% of winning.

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That's savage. Phoenix has large plots around 1.25 - 2.5%, medium 2-4% and smalls 5-10% (in Goblet odds are like 5 times better, too many people hate Goblet lol). But let's hope they open up the FC wards soon, it's gonna get more depressing witch each cycle.

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Originally Posted by Fenril7

See, we could have had FCFS. But you wanted this lottery. I have a feeling more wards will open up by 6.3.

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We could. But FCFS (on paper) would mean nobody but bots get the plots, since they can flood the maps and lock actual players out. This has been discussed several times on this forum alone. At this particular point, I hesitate to think that the next 'recommendation' after Lottery is going to be any better than Lottery itself.

Because we can all agree that people are already upset about getting what they wanted even when people pointed out a Lottery would reduce your odds. By an alarming margin. Making demands to remove it is not going to happen, but a change is more plausible.

I'm confident to put gil down on people ranting about wanting "island sanctuary" to be instanced housing, even when XIV has said it's not going to be. At all. Period. I know that people have already been doing this, but I mean that particular thought gaining traction and becoming near unbearable to listen to.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Sorry to burst your bubble but I still support the Lottery. I know full well that my odds of getting a house are pretty grim but we ALL have the same odds. What those of us who wanted the Lottery, was a fair system. The Lottery is it. I have no complaints about that. Where I DO have complaints is simply the sheer paucity of plots. That has nothing to do with the Lottery. It has everything to do with SE not wanting to pony up more resources to create more supply.

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At its core this is the problem. From the very start SE was always limited by there resources to provide enough housing for much of the player base. Its also why inventory space and a glamour system is lackluster. ( least we got something after what 9 years..Should be like the WoW transmog system imo)

They just need to flip around the ratio of FC wards against personal wards in my opinion.

There are bids that go into the hundreds in personal wards for medium plots while hundreds of medium, not to say small plots in FC wards remain unbidded simply because there's little to no FC demand.

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Originally Posted by DeNada

They just need to flip around the ratio of FC wards against personal wards in my opinion.

There are bids that go into the hundreds in personal wards for medium plots while hundreds of medium, not to say small plots in FC wards remain unbidded simply because there's little to no FC demand.

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This. Everyone saying tHiS iS wHaT yOu wAnTeD are purposefully ignoring the ward situation because they want to be able to say "I told you so" over nothing.
A lotto isn't perfect, and isn't what I wanted either. A lottery would've taken several cycles to get to this point (where hundreds are bidding on one plot) if every ward had been open for individual purchase. Instead we got here in 2 cycles because SE bungled it at the last second with that 6/18 split. What we need are more wards. And honestly, an instanced housing option for people who don't care about neighborhood BS. <-- This is what I've been asking for, because it addresses the supply of houses. So I'ma keep complaining.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

I'm confident to put gil down on people ranting about wanting "island sanctuary" to be instanced housing, even when XIV has said it's not going to be. At all. Period. I know that people have already been doing this, but I mean that particular thought gaining traction and becoming near unbearable to listen to.

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What is unbearable is when game devs in their stubbornness keep a system on life support(limited ward housing) nearly after 10 years of it not working for the vast majority of players in terms of access.

Every 'solution' that SE has tried to fix limited ward housing with has made access worse for the majority of players.

1. Ward housing consumes more server resources than fully instanced housing.
2. Adding new wards is not a scalable, long-term solution as long as server populations keep increasing.
3. RMT housing sales are profitable because of the arbitrary, artificial scarcity that SE imposed with limited ward housing.
4. SE had initially stated that there would be no auto-demolition. Auto-demolition is a consequence of not being far-sighted.
5. Yoshi P wants a 'neighbourhood feeling' but I think a lot of players barely see their neighbors in wards.
6. Having a fully instanced housing system in the form of improved apartments or an entirely new system, alongside the existing ward housing seems to be the best compromise to make multiple groups of players happy.

if you're so desperate to get a house, move to new datacentre. You should see empyreum on Materia lol. 3 houses per ward occupied on Bismarck and even less on Zurvan.

I'm unsure if my opinion even matters considering I bought my house since it was first released. I earned my money through spirit binding at Urth's. I do like the lottery system! Just that for FC's, I don't think it's fair that we are allowed multiple entries from one FC. At this point, it's basically, "May the richest FC win". To each their own though which is respectable because I'm one of those that don't want instance housing for my personal main. Everyone has their own cup of tea on what they want our Dev Team to do...

But what I want to see are:

1) PENTHOUSES!

2) Indoor gardening for apartments!
Like an actual way to cross breed plants and not these potted vases.

3) Increased slots especially for smalls and their yards!
Because I think their capacity is quite unfair. Decorating a small's yard can sometimes be irritating when you just need to add that "one more items" as a finishing touch, but I can't.

4) Better house skins.
God forbid side entrances like the Goblet and Lavender Beds. For example, the lovely Cafe walls.

5) And last but not least, the ability to move the "planted" stairs inside our houses?
Let me explain. I love my medium and I don't want to let it go, but ffs, I can't stand decorating sometimes with this staircase to my right as soon as I enter. It's just in my face and in the way.

Oh and of course, the thing I said about the FC lottery.

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Originally Posted by SanadaX

6.1 isn't even here and the salt is coming in droves. Clicking the placard was horrible it was. For us homeowners that got past it. Congrats boys we now get to watch them complain about the lottery system. I have seen a number of threads begging for a lottery system and now they have given it to you and you still complain. This is exactly what you wanted. Real housing OGs know that simply clicking buy was the best shit in the world. We could have begged to have gone back to that but instead you wanted lottery. Well when 6.1 drops you'll have it. Good luck. Odds are you'll win the cactpot before you win a house. inb4 someone says clicking the placard was better.

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We asked for a lottery system. We did not ask for them to also limit player housing to 20% of all plots...

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

What is unbearable is when game devs in their stubbornness keep a system on life support(limited ward housing) nearly after 10 years of it not working for the vast majority of players in terms of access.

Every 'solution' that SE has tried to fix limited ward housing with has made access worse for the majority of players.

1. Ward housing consumes more server resources than fully instanced housing.
2. Adding new wards is not a scalable, long-term solution as long as server populations keep increasing.
3. RMT housing sales are profitable because of the arbitrary, artificial scarcity that SE imposed with limited ward housing.
4. SE had initially stated that there would be no auto-demolition. Auto-demolition is a consequence of not being far-sighted.
5. Yoshi P wants a 'neighbourhood feeling' but I think a lot of players barely see their neighbors in wards.
6. Having a fully instanced housing system in the form of improved apartments or an entirely new system, alongside the existing ward housing seems to be the best compromise to make multiple groups of players happy.

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This ^

Neighborhoods are a waste of resources - Yoshi-P has got to understand, he can't be THAT dense. Neighborhoods are not packed or crowded or even active unless you have an RP venue.

Most Players want their own house/ yard.

Apartments and FC rooms are too limited (and they should be evenly prices since neither offer better perks.)

A fully instanced system, that allows a player to fully customize and make their own personal paradise, that also allows friends to visit is the answer.
OR he can keep messing up and giving us more wards that are mostly dedicated to FCs.

FFXIV is polished enough that when there is an issue, it's a giant GLARING issue- like housing.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

Apartments and FC rooms are too limited (and they should be evenly prices since neither offer better perks.)

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Apartments do offer something that FC rooms don't - permanency. You cannot lose an apartment for any reason short of intentionally clearing it out and relinquishing it. You can lose a FC room if you are removed from/leave the FC.

That's more than worth the extra 200k for an apartment.


But otherwise, agreed - the instanced housing system needs some major improvements if SE expects apartments to be the "in lieu" substitute for those unable to get a house due to lack of supply.

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

if you're so desperate to get a house, move to new datacentre. You should see empyreum on Materia lol. 3 houses per ward occupied on Bismarck and even less on Zurvan.

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This argument comes up often. In the past, I've suggested to people to move to less populated servers within their data center so they can still use world visit to visit their old servers.

But this is not easy for everyone, especially if you've been established long enough in server's community. Also asking people to give up their FCs, Linkshells etc

For an EU/NA player moving to an OCE server will not just be giving up social ties within their current data centre but most likely a worse playing experience in the form of latency.

In the first place, why do we even have to make such a suggestion to people?

Because of the fundamental problem of supply caused by limited ward housing.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Because of the fundamental problem of supply caused by limited ward housing.

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And yet, if housing were instanced a lot of people chasing a floppery ticket wouldn't bother. No FOMO then.

It's just because it's rare that so many people want it. The flopperies biggest fault will always be that non-invested players end up winning then working out that decorating is time consuming, expensive, and difficult - and that gardening is boring and not the road to riches they imagined - and that will cause more never used houses.

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

if you're so desperate to get a house, move to new datacentre. You should see empyreum on Materia lol. 3 houses per ward occupied on Bismarck and even less on Zurvan.

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You heard it here first, folks. Just ditch all your friends and move to a dead DC so you can sit in your brand new house that nobody visits.

I certainly did not ask for this. I foresaw most of the current issues (not the horrible bugs, I admit), and I expected a lot of unhappy people to be the result. And here we are.

It gives me no pleasure though.

I cannot understand why the devs are so determined to make the ward system work when even the most mathematically challenged person can see that the wards are never going to deliver enough houses for those who want them. Instanced housing alongside the wards would be a decent solution. And until we get a solution, I am going to continue to complain.
There are other games that have managed housing so much better. Why our devs seem set on putting band-aids on this flawed and broken system is something I just cannot understand.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

And yet, if housing were instanced a lot of people chasing a floppery ticket wouldn't bother. No FOMO then.

It's just because it's rare that so many people want it. The flopperies biggest fault will always be that non-invested players end up winning then working out that decorating is time consuming, expensive, and difficult - and that gardening is boring and not the road to riches they imagined - and that will cause more never used houses.

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To be frank, considering how low effort the decoration for the average house I see around is, I agree with you lol

Still, instanced housing should be a thing.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

And yet, if housing were instanced a lot of people chasing a floppery ticket wouldn't bother. No FOMO then.

It's just because it's rare that so many people want it. The flopperies biggest fault will always be that non-invested players end up winning then working out that decorating is time consuming, expensive, and difficult - and that gardening is boring and not the road to riches they imagined - and that will cause more never used houses.

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I want it BECAUSE I like decorating lol. I spent enough copium on deco'ing my friends house and using their garden to play around with :P

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Originally Posted by Shibi

And yet, if housing were instanced a lot of people chasing a floppery ticket wouldn't bother. No FOMO then.

It's just because it's rare that so many people want it. The flopperies biggest fault will always be that non-invested players end up winning then working out that decorating is time consuming, expensive, and difficult - and that gardening is boring and not the road to riches they imagined - and that will cause more never used houses.

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Players want houses for a lot of difference reasons, not just scarcity.

But scarcity does drive the demand to get it NOW instead of waiting because if they don't get it when it's available, they may not be able to get it when they're ready for it.

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Originally Posted by ameliaw

To be frank, considering how low effort the decoration for the average house I see around is, I agree with you lol

Still, instanced housing should be a thing.

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Not everyone is a creative genius. That doesn't mean they still don't enjoy their house regardless of what you might think of how they decorated.

It's the houses without decoration that should be a concern. That shows demand is being driven by a feature that's available through housing without the owner necessarily wanting the house itself. Move those features to other sources so no house is required and demand for houses goes down, allowing other players who want a house for its own sake to get one.