It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The community shares some of the responsibility. We used to have enmity combos, but a lot of tanks chose not to use them in favor of DPS. We used to have a tank stance and a DPS stance for when we aren't tanking, but a lot of tanks chose to use only the DPS stance. Vitality used to be the main tank stat but a lot of tanks used workarounds to stack Strength instead. There is argument to be made that a lot of tanks wanted to be a blue DPS so the development direction was just to let them.

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It's not that the tanks wanted, it's that they needed to dps if they wanted to clear the respective tier. And as the matter stands, healers dps is required too in high-end duties, unlike yoshi likes to say "it's optional".

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The community shares some of the responsibility. We used to have enmity combos, but a lot of tanks chose not to use them in favor of DPS. We used to have a tank stance and a DPS stance for when we aren't tanking, but a lot of tanks chose to use only the DPS stance. Vitality used to be the main tank stat but a lot of tanks used workarounds to stack Strength instead. There is argument to be made that a lot of tanks wanted to be a blue DPS so the development direction was just to let them.

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If you give the players the choice whether they can achieve something in an efficient way or a way that makes fun, they will almost always choose the efficient way. If DPS is king and it is more efficient to sacrifice some tank attributes or tank buffs in exchange for more DPS then the players will do that. It happens in almost all MMORPGs, FF14 is not the exception of it. In WoW classic there is the "fury/prot"-meta. It means, you have a fury dps warrior who servers as a "tank". Full with (very expensive) buffs so he will not be an "one-hit-wonder" on bosses. And the entire raid is build around the playstyle of the fury/pro-warrior. It means, with two fury/prot tanks 38 players have to adapt. :) Healers have to use very expensive mana potions because the fury/prot tank takes ~60% more damage than a full prot warrior etc. But the players do that because it is more efficient even if it is not fun at all especially for the healers.

It seems also that the FF14 devs try to prevent such behavior with job specific items so sacrificing tank stats for more DPS is not so easy. But almost every job uses materia which increases the chance for a critical hit because it means more DPS.

As long as the game devs create the game around the "DPS is king" narrative the players will always try to do more DPS even if it is not fun for them. But because it is not fun, they will someday begin to hate the game and the game devs for that. WoW is now in that state because the entire game is full of such not funny, grindy and boring FOMO mechanics. And the devs get rants and much hate on Twitter & co for that.


Cheers

This is a prime example shown by Nizzi.

What this shows is that a healer spend 70% of their entire casts spamming a single button only to out damage a tank who was using 13 abilities. The mage had as many Glare attacks as the PLD had auto attacks.

But for some reason the FFXIV developers are concerned that "healers need to be concerned with accessibility". While tanks, one of the most important roles in the game, don't.

https://files.catbox.moe/jzksxq.png

Just to throw my two cents in here. Always loved playing healer and tank in all contents of the game but I do agree that the similarity between tanks especially is becoming very off putting. However it's worse for healers in my opinion, all I really wish for is a harder hitting encounter Design, make healers heal more if you refuse to give them more damage spells, but even that point is moot after seeing how all tanks and some dps jobs got new healing abilities. I don't understand why make healers even more redundant, even in current content it's often the case to be stuck in downtime to due mobs hitting like wet noddles. I don't know how the encounter design will look like in Endwalker but I do seriously hope they will amp up the damage output of mobs/raids just to make healers use their healing kit more.

I get not wanting to throw a newbie healer or tank into cold water but by the time 6.0 drops there really needs to be some sort of change to make healers feel useful again and if it's not by adding more dps spells for downtime, then be it by having harder difficulty fights.

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Originally Posted by Nanchi

I don't know how the encounter design will look like in Endwalker but I do seriously hope they will amp up the damage output of mobs/raids just to make healers use their healing kit more.

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From the media tour, the dungeon at lvl 81 looked pretty mechanic heavy, but even then it didn't look like a whole lot of healing was needed. Leveling dungeons do tend to hit a little harder than the endgame dungeons though, so we don't really know how those will end up being. I imagine the trial encounters will behave similarly to ShB's trials though.

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Originally Posted by Nanchi

I get not wanting to throw a newbie healer or tank into cold water but by the time 6.0 drops there really needs to be some sort of change to make healers feel useful again and if it's not by adding more dps spells for downtime, then be it by having harder difficulty fights.

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Tbh I think newbie is the key word there. Can someone who even reached lv 70+ [without buying a skip potion, and even then, they'd still need to level the rest "manually" anyways, but I digress] be considered a newbie in anything? I mean, I get it, it's not 'tanking/healing' itself, it's the anxiety of being in the role. I used to be terrified of tanking, I still kinda need some emotional preparation before queuing, and a break after the run is over, even after leveling all 4 tanks to 80.. but that feeling does ware off after a while, and while a tank might eventually find more confidence and enjoyment being a "blue dps", a healer is left with a 111111111 spam.

Unlike dps and tanks, healing doesn't become more enjoyable and rewarding as you get better, quite the opposite - it gets dull, that is not ok.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Unlike dps and tanks, healing doesn't become more enjoyable and rewarding as you get better, quite the opposite - it gets dull, that is not ok.

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Also, neither of those roles get as considerably dull as healers' roles do when in higher item level gear. At least tanks have DPS combos if they don't need mitigation as much.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

I can't speak to WoW's healing or tanking these days. From what I heard, mythic content requires a lot from a tank. I will say that for me, Wrath of the Lich King was where it was at with healing. It was a full-time role, semi chaotic and random, and restoration shaman had a good toolkit by that point. Overall the best healer I've played and the most rewarding was Operative in SWTOR.

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What did they do differently that FFXIV does not? (I've never played either of these games)

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

What did they do differently that FFXIV does not? (I've never played either of these games)

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Don't have to have played either. There are plenty of other games where healers have other things they can do including Everquest (Given, for a while raiding as a cleric is CH chain hell, but in group play options do exist and get broader as the expansions go on... not reduced like FFXIV). RIFT, FFXI, LOTR, are a few more MMOs I have experience with with more interesting healers. Hell even AD&D and Pathfinder healers have more options. I am, unfortunately, in no place to talk about tanks, though.

Put Yoko Taro in charge of designing healers.

Even if it doesn't turn out great the results will be more interesting than what we've been getting.

I feel like I'm a bit late to this topic, but here are my 2 cents.
I love how balanced FF14 is when it comes to everything.
The reason we have so many tanks and healers in this game is that they are not a pain in the a*s lvl'ng, unlike in games like wow, where it takes three times as long for a healer to kill anything than any DPS and tanks are almost as bad with the exception of the Death knight the only 2h weapon tank.
So before anyone asks for changes, ask your self do you want to wait in a dungeon queue for 30-60min because no one wishes to play a tank/healer because they are simply boring to lvl or do you want a good player with a healer who can out DPS a bad DPS player?

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Originally Posted by Aron73

I feel like I'm a bit late to this topic, but here are my 2 cents.
I love how balanced FF14 is when it comes to everything.
The reason we have so many tanks and healers in this game is that they are not a pain in the a*s lvl'ng, unlike in games like wow, where it takes three times as long for a healer to kill anything than any DPS and tanks are almost as bad with the exception of the Death knight the only 2h weapon tank.
So before anyone asks for changes, ask your self do you want to wait in a dungeon queue for 30-60min because no one wishes to play a tank/healer because they are simply boring to lvl or do you want a good player with a healer who can out DPS a bad DPS player?

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I'm confused?

On single target, healer DPS is very approximately half that of an actual DPS job. Certainly not a third, but they aren't on equal footing either, especially if the DPS is able to just dump cooldowns on a mob.

I'm curious what you mean by your closing sentence. Healers are absolutely boring to level right now, there's no denying that the gameplay loop is bad to the point of being laughable. The 'redeeming point is that it's so comically simple that you don't even need to pay attention to the screen whilst soloing typical fluff mobs. Find a mob, dot it, mash 1 button until it's dead whilst watching Netflix.

A decent healer out DPSing a bad healer doesn't really have anything to do with this. It's just a byproduct of keeping the GCD rolling vs another player who can't.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm confused?

On single target, healer DPS is very approximately half that of an actual DPS job. Certainly not a third, but they aren't on equal footing either, especially if the DPS is able to just dump cooldowns on a mob.

I'm curious what you mean by your closing sentence. Healers are absolutely boring to level right now, there's no denying that the gameplay loop is bad to the point of being laughable. The 'redeeming point is that it's so comically simple that you don't even need to pay attention to the screen whilst soloing typical fluff mobs. Find a mob, dot it, mash 1 button until it's dead whilst watching Netflix.

A decent healer out DPSing a bad healer doesn't really have anything to do with this. It's just a byproduct of keeping the GCD rolling vs another player who can't.

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I'm sorry I must have misunderstood this topic. I will read it abit more carefully before posting again.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm confused?

On single target, healer DPS is very approximately half that of an actual DPS job. Certainly not a third, but they aren't on equal footing either, especially if the DPS is able to just dump cooldowns on a mob.

I'm curious what you mean by your closing sentence. Healers are absolutely boring to level right now, there's no denying that the gameplay loop is bad to the point of being laughable. The 'redeeming point is that it's so comically simple that you don't even need to pay attention to the screen whilst soloing typical fluff mobs. Find a mob, dot it, mash 1 button until it's dead whilst watching Netflix.

A decent healer out DPSing a bad healer doesn't really have anything to do with this. It's just a byproduct of keeping the GCD rolling vs another player who can't.

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The funny thing is that, leveling is probably the reason healers still have any means of dps at all.

In WoW, if I want to level my Priest, I'm essentially forced to change spec and go Shadow, a dps, so that's why it doesn't matter if Holy, the healing spec, hits like a wet noodle, because I'm not even "meant" to be leveling as a healer.

XIV doesn't have talent trees or specs, so if I'm leveling WHM, I got to have something aside from autoattack to be able to do the quests - and the weirdest part is that in most, if not all of the healer job/role quests, we're spending as much time dpsing as healing, sometimes we're not even healing at all or even have an npc healing for us, so I really don't get where this entirely contradicting stance of "your one job is to heal people's boo boos if you see their HP drop below ~80% just stand there and look pretty otherwise" come from outside just... pure laziness

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Originally Posted by Aron73

The reason we have so many tanks and healers in this game is that they are not a pain in the a*s lvl'ng, unlike in games like wow, where it takes three times as long for a healer to kill anything than any DPS and tanks are almost as bad with the exception of the Death knight the only 2h weapon tank.

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I think you are mistaken or perhaps didn't actually play WoW. Every class in that game that heals also has a dedicated DPS talent tree they can switch to at any time.

Shadow Priests are notorious for Melting People.
Elemental / Enhancement Shaman as well.
Balance / Feral Druids are decent. Feral is a GREAT leveling spec for DPS. Extremely self sufficient.
Ret has gotten much better over the years for Paladins
Monks are my lowest played class but I know they have a tank spec and a DPS spec.

Months later and I still have to get in line to log on. This fantasy that people are not happy playing the current classes is just that, a fantasy.

The thing is though, healing is no longer the Healer Role's primary duty. It's DPS. Damage is both so low and infrequent that DPS spells are your most casted ability. While healing may be their INTENDED role, it certainly isn't their PRIMARY role anymore(I wouldn't say casting MAYBE 10 GCD heals in a dungeon compared to my 170+ damage spells to be my primary role anymore.) "Forcing" more DPS spells won't change anything for the ones that don't DPS already, they'll just ignore those like they do now.

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Originally Posted by Karthunk

Months later and I still have to get in line to log on. This fantasy that people are not happy playing the current classes is just that, a fantasy.

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Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Meanwhile, we have a lot of people unhappy and saying as much, across all roles, in just this thread alone, so you're either blind or selective.

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

I've been a Paladin since the launch of ARR, a White Mage since Heavensward, and I have to say both got only better since.
Looking at the changes to PLD in Endwalker it's bound to be even cooler now. WHM seems a tad improved, but mostly the same.

While as WHM I do attack as much as possible during fights, I'm perfectly fine with people not wanting to attack as healers, they are healers after all. Playing a healer comes with a certain mindset, it's not for everyone.
If you force the devs to add more dps abilities to healers there will no longer be a choice to dps or not to dps because at that point the healer's DPS will need to be accounted for when creating boss encounters.
Creating intricate, fun dps rotations for healers that do only a sliver of a real dps damage makes no sense either.
The primary role of a healer is healing, and it has to remain healing, otherwise it's no longer a healer.
I've seen so many new healers focus on dps during simple dungeons and letting the tank die because every guide says "You have to attack" that it's getting really ridiculous.

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That isn't completely true. Yes, in dungeons a healer can sit around, twiddling their thumbs until the tank loses a sliver of HP just to heal it back up, but that is incredibly inefficient and just makes runs longer. In high end content, every last bit of DPS matters. If your healer isn't DPSing, or at least contributing slightly to DPSing, it just makes the situation more difficult to deal with. And newer healers will learn to juggle between healing and DPSing, at the very least they're attempting to learn how to heal then DPS in the downtime between heals. Yes, it comes with failure, but how is anyone supposed to get better at their role if they don't fail? I don't know why you say it's ridiculous, since the healer's role now if someone is playing it correctly is primarily to heal, but you're expected to DPS in downtime. Even in the Hall of the Novice, they even state this plain and clear for the player. Heal when needed, DPS when healing isn't needed. It's that simple.

I love to play healer, SCH was my primary job since 2.0, I loved the fairies, Eos for Healing, Selene for DPS, Macroing their abilities so you could use them on demand (Party wide Esuna was actually amazing) Dropping Shadowflare, spreading dots, the class was actually interesting to play, sure, to be actually really good at SCH at that time, you REALLY had to micro manage the fairies, but that was the point of SCH. Now SCH is probably the most boring healer, its great that I have a Seraph!...IF I WOULD EVER NEED TO USE IT....Im not doing Savages nor Ultimate since I dont have the time to dedicate myself to it, and that brings up the core issue for me on SCH, the class is waaaaay too strong for casual gameplay, Oh, Party takes damage ? Succor + Indomitability and everyone is back on full HP with a shield...Heck, Im not even BiS, but my Addlo gives casually 60k+ Shields to tanks (I sit at 4046 Crit without food), I literally tell people to stand in stuff so I have something to do other than 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1....so either, make casual contend harder to heal or give me more skills to press OR give me 4 fairies that I can summon and every one has a different set of support abilities...just anything to make being a healer less boring...

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Originally Posted by Setesh45

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This type of mindset doesn’t really work in a game like this. When you have a whole director approving changes such as shortening the healer cast time just so they can, SAY IT WITH ME NOW, to encourage healers to DPS. Never mind the fact that in the end game raids, healers are required to DPS to pass. Also, plenty of players will have an increased “you have no excuse not to DPS” mentality and proceed to tell you to get good if you disagree. Already seen a lot of comments across platforms of players hoping this means healers will DPS more.

Even if we request more reasons to heal in this game, that practically got stomped out the window since, once again, Yoshi doesn’t want put pressure or make healing too hard. So, not even the healers that want to heal more will be satisfied unless they get a group that’s struggling with content.

In the end, not all healers mains are asking for the same kind of kit but for SE to get creative on helping with downtime to not be so boring. DPS is the easiest thing to ask for since it doesn’t take effort to add DPS skills to what healers already have. Like WHM could have lilies that turn into poison roses after you use the normal ones, or something lol, that can be used to DPS and maybe have a modified blood lily that attacks and applies a debuff/DOT to their target. This is a very basic idea but it’s something lol

Basically, make all the healer kits more interesting like they’re doing with AST in Endwalker. AST, even with the nerfs, still had cards to break up the boredom. We used to have different buffs for each card along with ways to enhance or prolong those buffs. They brought back two of those. And the lord and lady effects got a reworked back into a heal and damage skill. Actually excited to be able to go full circle and main AST again.

But this style of healer isn’t for everyone, hence us asking for them to add DPS/buffs/DOT to add variety to healers so every healer main has healer job to enjoy.

Just gotta get passed this weird logic of SE to want healers to just heal while at the same time encouraging us to not just heal …

remove Feint, Addle and interrupts from everyone else and give them to healers, that'd give them something else to do without directly contributing to dps /s

On a more serious note, being given more buffs, debuffs, or utility stuff would be an option, but I don't see that happening. Most people who want a better dps kit don't want it because they want to dps instead of healing, they just want to do something other than pressing 111111111111 while there's nothing to heal. AST can get away with it because they are constantly weaving cards, but that sense of monotony is specially noticeable with WHM

Also, conveniently, as satire-oriented as it is: https://youtu.be/olxZUfxk4bo

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Even if we request more reasons to heal in this game, that practically got stomped out the window since, once again, Yoshi doesn’t want put pressure or make healing too hard.

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From what I gathered from LL LXVI and the interview, they are willing to raise the skill floor in terms of healing instead of dpsing. Quite the opposite to your statement

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

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With him stating constantly on media tours that they want to make healers as accessible as possible, them trying to say they’re willing to increase reasons to heal is something that’s going to have to be seen to believe.Whatever healer checks they add can easily get bulldozed with just us getting stronger gear. Thunder God alliance raid had some good heal checks in there but the stronger our gear got the easier it was for only one healer to top off the entire party. Doesn’t help that place got nerfs along the way do to complaints of those raids being too hard. So whatever they added in the live letter alongside with what we’ve seen up to now, I won’t believe none of their nonsense until I see it. lol

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

With him stating constantly on media tours that they want to make healers as accessible as possible, them trying to say they’re willing to increase reasons to heal is something that’s going to have to be seen to believe.Whatever healer checks they add can easily get bulldozed with just us getting stronger gear. Thunder God alliance raid had some good heal checks in there but the stronger our gear got the easier it was for only one healer to top off the entire party. Doesn’t help that place got nerfs along the way do to complaints of those raids being too hard. So whatever they added in the live letter alongside with what we’ve seen up to now, I won’t believe none of their nonsense until I see it. lol

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Yes, it needs to be seen to believe. However, making statement opposite to the record sounds very disingenuous of you. That statement in your reply led to the conclusion that more dps tools for healers is the best option. You're twisting the official statement to suit your personal preference and agenda.

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Even if we request more reasons to heal in this game, that practically got stomped out the window

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Then it's not stomped out of the window. It's the direction they are going to take. Whether they nail it or fail it is another story.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Yes, it needs to be seen to believe. However, making statement opposite to the record sounds very disingenuous of you. That statement in your reply led to the conclusion that more dps tools for healers is the best option. You're twisting the official statement to suit your personal preference and agenda.



Then it's not stomped out of the window. It's the direction they are going to take. Whether they nail it or fail it is another story.

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They promised a lot of bs over the years especially over jobs and changes, if you choose to still believe what they say in the LL it's on you to be such a naive fool but we've seen enough " yeah yeah we will do stuff" and make it worse in the end.
They will never increase heal requirment because the average player is terrible at the game and everyone the devs included knows it, it will never happen so yeah better get better dps rotation that's better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

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Hmm, me telling you what I’ve seen him say through media tours and then giving my opinion is not what I would call twisting words. I call that me restating exactly what he said and the direction he wants to go. Then following up with my opinion as one of the many healers wondering why after 2 years of us having 15 heals in our kit and have only a couple of endgame raids be the only place that forced healers to heal more often.

Things have been stomped out the window for the last two years. No amount of text or empty words will change my mind until I see it. Hell, I didn’t even want to believe the AST changes until I watched some videos on the rework.

On top of that, pretty sure I mentioned that not all healers want more DPS skills. I went on to list that others may wish they had more buffs or raid utility, debuffs or just interesting heal mechanic. Anything but what we got now so that a variety of healers can enjoy being a healer in this game.

We’ve got four healers now and all four don’t need to play the same otherwise what’s the point of having four healers?

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

In the end, not all healers mains are asking for the same kind of kit but for SE to get creative on helping with downtime to not be so boring. DPS is the easiest thing to ask for since it doesn’t take effort to add DPS skills to what healers already have.

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And the reason we ask for that is because it's simply not mandatory in the sense that the ToS say we can't tell people HOW to play their jobs.

If the extra DPS options exist and veterans choose to use them, stuff simply dies faster.

If the Pure Healer folks decide not to use them, the buttons are simply unused. They still do the basics of their job.

But having the exact same damage rotation from lvl 4 to lvl 80 is simply unacceptable in any game.

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

From what I gathered from LL LXVI and the interview, they are willing to raise the skill floor in terms of healing instead of dpsing. Quite the opposite to your statement

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They said this same thing at the start of ShadowBringers. It didn't materialize.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

They said this same thing at the start of ShadowBringers. It didn't materialize.

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It didn't, but a false quote is still a false quote

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Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

Hmm, me telling you what I’ve seen him say through media tours and then giving my opinion is not what I would call twisting words.

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watch again then. You're getting wrong ideas

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Originally Posted by Izscha

if you choose to still believe what they say in the LL it's on you to be such a naive fool but we've seen enough " yeah yeah we will do stuff" and make it worse in the end.
They will never increase heal requirment because the average player is terrible at the game and everyone the devs included knows it, it will never happen so yeah better get better dps rotation that's better than nothing.

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Just pointing out the mistake in that statement alone.

please don't assume my position on this matter

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

It didn't, but a false quote is still a false quote

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I'm not sure what you mean by "false quote."
Can you elaborate?

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Originally Posted by Aword3213

Snip…

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No, I won’t rewatch anything. I already told you I won’t believe anything until I see it. That live letter mind as well have been talking about someone’s birthday for all I care. We can leave it that.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

remove Feint, Addle and interrupts from everyone else and give them to healers, that'd give them something else to do without directly contributing to dps /s

On a more serious note, being given more buffs, debuffs, or utility stuff would be an option, but I don't see that happening. Most people who want a better dps kit don't want it because they want to dps instead of healing, they just want to do something other than pressing 111111111111 while there's nothing to heal. AST can get away with it because they are constantly weaving cards, but that sense of monotony is specially noticeable with WHM

Also, conveniently, as satire-oriented as it is: https://youtu.be/olxZUfxk4bo

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I wouldn't say that "AST can get away with it" at all. It isn't as though ASTs have to constantly deal cards. ASTs are in a slightly better place.
However most of the time is still spent hitting one 1 DPS button aside from card buffs , which are on a set rotation, there is no "constantly weaving cards"- and using OGCD heals unless there are serious issues (in normal content).

For what I remember, at "A Realm Reborn" time, we had a trinity.

DPS could aggro more than tanks and that was something to be careful with.
Players could take a lot of damage, whatever the reason, and as a WHM I had to decide whether or not I would activate my cleric stance.

When I played tank or healer, I had a job to do.

Paladin or Warrior, gameplay changed.
White Mage or Scholar, gameplay changed.

For what I remember, when I chose tank, heal or DPS, I had a job to do.

Now I play White Mage to feel useful if I have the CHANCE to play with new players. New players failing make it fun and I THANK them for that.
Now I play Bard out of lazyness.
Now, I don't tank anymore. But it's another issue.


Healing now is only fun when new players need you. Otherwise it is just one-click spam.

I cleared Savage in SHB as DRG and WAR and thought both roles were wildly fun.

But in daily / roulette content, I go WHM more than any other Job.

If the content is synched down, healer is more interesting than DPS and tank because it loses less, and because people always make mistakes, especially in 24 mans and 8 mans, and I carry.

Every time 5.3 spoiler trial came up on roulette, or Garufrit popped up on normal raids, or the Eden bird portals, my healer carried. Literally the only person alive standing the whole raid up when it was a constant thing for people to not know mechs.

This wasn't when the patch was new btw, this was late into 5.3 and early 5.4. In fact if I still get sorted into one of those, I wanna be a healer.

Healer is my go-to for pretty much any sort of 8+ regular content. Wildly fun at 80, more fun than DPS or tank when being synced down.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I cleared Savage in SHB as DRG and WAR and thought both roles were wildly fun.

But in daily / roulette content, I go WHM more than any other Job.

If the content is synched down, healer is more interesting than DPS and tank because it loses less, and because people always make mistakes, especially in 24 mans and 8 mans, and I carry.

Every time 5.3 spoiler trial came up on roulette, or Garufrit popped up on normal raids, or the Eden bird portals, my healer carried. Literally the only person alive standing the whole raid up when it was a constant thing for people to not know mechs.

This wasn't when the patch was new btw, this was late into 5.3 and early 5.4. In fact if I still get sorted into one of those, I wanna be a healer.

Healer is my go-to for pretty much any sort of 8+ regular content. Wildly fun at 80, more fun than DPS or tank when being synced down.

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again that is the issue with the design, you can ONLY HAVE FUN WHEN YOUR PARTY IS BAD BASICALLY YOU WISH YOUR PARTY MEMBERS TO FAIL MISERABLY SO YOU THE HEALER CAN HAVE FUN AND YOU DONT FIND SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT?

healers need to be fun in both aspects and rewarded in both aspects. if you are progging / stuck with new players / or just have bad luck in a run .you get your fun by actually using your heals and save the day.
HOWEVER you need to also have fun when you don't need to always heal, you need to have some fun as well while you don't need to constantly heal AND AGAIN YOU DO NOT NEED TO WISH FOR YOUR RUN TO GO SOUR TO HAVE FUN THAT JUST WRONG.

healers need to have good and well designed kits that allow fun times when people make mistakes and also when doing their jobs perfect something the devs have seriously hard time to accept.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

healers need to have good and well designed kits that allow fun times when people make mistakes and also when doing their jobs perfect something the devs have seriously hard time to accept.

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What you're asking for is incoherent.

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

What do you want them to do, add an open heart surgery mechanic to each healing job? There's only one or two ways to represent waving your hands and restoring numbers. There's HUNDREDS of martial arts to derive fighting styles from. Healing with magic only exists in fantasy and will only take the forms that have any coherence.

A healer that heals by punching is incoherent, not only because of the punching, but because every healer in this game has to be a ranged caster and cannot be a melee DPS. Healers can't be melee DPS because SE would have to rebuild all the content in the entire game around such a concept. In the game right now, there are enemy mechanics that only target healers and would not work if the healers were up front, such as the mechanics in Alexander that spread from the healer and wipe the party if they stand too close.

So yeah, your request is incoherent.

Healer is great at healing people, and needed most when people take damage. This is not a flaw. It's the design. You just sound like you don't like playing healer.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

What you're asking for is incoherent.

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

What do you want them to do, add an open heart surgery mechanic to each healing job? There's only one or two ways to represent waving your hands and restoring numbers. There's HUNDREDS of martial arts to derive fighting styles from. Healing with magic only exists in fantasy and will only take the forms that have any coherence.

A healer that heals by punching is incoherent, not only because of the punching, but because every healer in this game has to be a ranged caster and cannot be a melee DPS. Healers can't be melee DPS because SE would have to rebuild all the content in the entire game around such a concept. In the game right now, there are enemy mechanics that only target healers and would not work if the healers were up front, such as the mechanics in Alexander that spread from the healer and wipe the party if they stand too close.

So yeah, your request is incoherent.

Healer is great at healing people, and needed most when people take damage. This is not a flaw. It's the design. You just sound like you don't like playing healer.

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You've never played the healer glory days that were Stormblood or Heavensward. For SCH alone, you had 2 DoTs, a move that spread them to nearby enemies, an AoE that put another DoT on them, an AoE damage field, and the powerhouse that was pre-ShB Energy Drain. Now imagine managing all of that in healing downtime. That's how healers USED to be prior to Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

What you're asking for is incoherent.

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

What do you want them to do, add an open heart surgery mechanic to each healing job? There's only one or two ways to represent waving your hands and restoring numbers. There's HUNDREDS of martial arts to derive fighting styles from. Healing with magic only exists in fantasy and will only take the forms that have any coherence.

A healer that heals by punching is incoherent, not only because of the punching, but because every healer in this game has to be a ranged caster and cannot be a melee DPS. Healers can't be melee DPS because SE would have to rebuild all the content in the entire game around such a concept. In the game right now, there are enemy mechanics that only target healers and would not work if the healers were up front, such as the mechanics in Alexander that spread from the healer and wipe the party if they stand too close.

So yeah, your request is incoherent.

Healer is great at healing people, and needed most when people take damage. This is not a flaw. It's the design. You just sound like you don't like playing healer.

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"Healers are fantastically well designed because... they just are, okay?"

Okay, healers can heal.

We've established that already, that's not the complaint Healer mains have.

I am sure you have a lot of fun in your dungeon runs, it's great, keep at it.

I, on the other hand, and apparently plenty of other healer players find ourselves stuck with this role we used to love and want to love.
As we gained mastery over the Jobs we quickly found ourselves becoming more adept at fully utilizing all the healer kit. Each healing oGCD that we use, leaves a free GCD we do not need to use for healing. And that opens up our contribution to the party with damage. The better we get at managing our abilities the more this "opening" grows, to the point most of us can pretty much run any content with barely any uses of healing GCDs.

That leaves us using our attack spells hundreds of times. Over and over, back to back. And this is where it suddenly hits how shallow and repetitive healer gameplay is.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I cleared Savage in SHB as DRG and WAR and thought both roles were wildly fun.

But in daily / roulette content, I go WHM more than any other Job.

If the content is synched down, healer is more interesting than DPS and tank because it loses less, and because people always make mistakes, especially in 24 mans and 8 mans, and I carry.

Every time 5.3 spoiler trial came up on roulette, or Garufrit popped up on normal raids, or the Eden bird portals, my healer carried. Literally the only person alive standing the whole raid up when it was a constant thing for people to not know mechs.

This wasn't when the patch was new btw, this was late into 5.3 and early 5.4. In fact if I still get sorted into one of those, I wanna be a healer.

Healer is my go-to for pretty much any sort of 8+ regular content. Wildly fun at 80, more fun than DPS or tank when being synced down.

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Healers are boring. I quit playing healer on October 10th 2017 when Drowned City of Skalla released. I switched to Red Mage never looked back and have been playing DPS ever since. The only reason my Glare Mage is level 80 is because of the Role Quests and my retainer being a Glare Mage (which I'm probably going to reset so I don't need to ever switch to a healer again or level a healer again). I also only ever leveled it with Pixie dailies. The only content in this game I can even find playing a healer palatable is PvP and Dungeon Explorer mode.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you need mistakes to occur for a healer to have any semblance of entertainment. While as a DPS my entertainment doesn't ride on people failing mechanics and I will be entertained at all stages of an encounter regardless of what ever is not happening or what ever is happening.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

What you're asking for is incoherent.

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

What do you want them to do, add an open heart surgery mechanic to each healing job? There's only one or two ways to represent waving your hands and restoring numbers. There's HUNDREDS of martial arts to derive fighting styles from. Healing with magic only exists in fantasy and will only take the forms that have any coherence.

A healer that heals by punching is incoherent, not only because of the punching, but because every healer in this game has to be a ranged caster and cannot be a melee DPS. Healers can't be melee DPS because SE would have to rebuild all the content in the entire game around such a concept. In the game right now, there are enemy mechanics that only target healers and would not work if the healers were up front, such as the mechanics in Alexander that spread from the healer and wipe the party if they stand too close.

So yeah, your request is incoherent.

Healer is great at healing people, and needed most when people take damage. This is not a flaw. It's the design. You just sound like you don't like playing healer.

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Having so much tools with so many use when you dont need it is not a good design by any means.
You can have 50 tools in your house, if you need to put a nail on your wall you'll only need a hammer, no matter how much fancy stuff you do have a simple hammer will do the work so why bother using anything else ?
That's the problem with healers rn, they have too much things for what they're required to do, it's simply overkill at this point so what's left ? Dps dps dps dps to kill the time outside the little mandatory healing they need to do.
Being a healer in FF just means planning fights and make as much room for dps window as possible and still keep everyone well and alive, nothing more than that.
So at least make the dps part fun.