How could you do this to AST?

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I think I proved enough it too that you and all you regens lovers do not play it right too cause you need game to auto heal for you because you cant do the task yourself^^

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Now hopefully all the others who tend to read things not cleary and love to use their dry you do not know the kit right, yeah I can again say the same with yall and need game to auto heal for you with regens lmao.

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Large amount of copium in these posts

Genuinely though, actually look up guides about AST and healing principles, it might come insightful.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Since you do not ever seem to read carefully I dont have mp issues in noct stance period. I may do on dirunal but so what, matter of play style so me having no mp issues in noct since most of yall love to mention how it uses up more mp is me playing the class properly. You and these regen healers think yall so veteran but needs the game to auto heal for you aka regen and call yall selfs veteran healers hahaha ya. Who cares about friend, speak for yourself and not for others, some friend you are having said friend in a problem that do not even concern her/him wow.

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There is no "playstyle" in this game. Everything is incredibly rigid. You either play correctly or you don't. You having MP issues in Diurnal means you aren't playing it correctly. Allowing Regens to tick people up is veteran healing. You're getting value of your cast instead of pointlessly wasting GCDs. In takes a lot more thought to assess "will this Regen tick up the DPS from 50% in time for the next AoE?" then "ladeda spam AoE heals til everyone's max HP!!"

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

That's a fair point. It's a shame Diurnal doesn't have CU, Star, CO or Celestial intersection.

Btw you should probably take Noct Celestial intersection off your bars. It has a filthy Regen tied to it and you might get contaminated.

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Yes you may as well do so yourself it as a filthy shield on it and you may get poisoned , its a shame noct dont have the same thing cu,/star/co/celestial intersection.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

There is no "playstyle" in this game. Everything is incredibly rigid. You either play correctly or you don't. You having MP issues in Diurnal means you aren't playing it correctly. Allowing Regens to tick people up is veteran healing. You're getting value of your cast instead of pointlessly wasting GCDs. In takes a lot more thought to assess "will this Regen tick up the DPS from 50% in time for the next AoE?" then "ladeda spam AoE heals til everyone's max HP!!"

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You having issues playing noct means you arent playing it properly, I heal perfectly fine in noct said that like 10 times now, regens= game need to auto heal for you because you cant do it yourself. Me using gcds and not having not to expend much mp should not be a problem to you. lol anyone is gonna play what works for them? There is no playstyle in this game? what do you call a hybrid class that can do different from 2 other job and also has its own perks? Why am I saving up gcds for especially ones with decent cool down I use the entire kit at my disposal it works fine lol.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Large amount of copium in these posts

Genuinely though, actually look up guides about AST and healing principles, it might come insightful.

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I heal it perfectly fine and comfy in noct. but you can do your own advise for yourself. Copium yes everyone is doing it too not just me, like you and 4 others about dont know how to play ast just cause I dont play the stupid dirunal good but I do perfectly fine *my comfort* right. It would make more sense I say I cant play either stances cause both of them I do not understand LMAO. Regens game auto healing for you determines if someone good or bad lmao.

Sorry about the astro changes friend, hopefully you'll find another healer u like or end up liking the healer changes.

I was also a big nocturnal sect fan, imo shield healing is easier so it's why I chose astro over whm when I healed dungeons, I hope they keep that move that gives u insta cast for a period of time cause it's been a helpful move for me when it comes to astro.

The sage is gonna be my new healer though cause it's a shield healer and it looks cool, but ultimately that decision will be made once I've got to try out all the healers in 6.0, so best of luck to u pal in your future healing endeavors.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I heal it perfectly fine and comfy in noct. but you can do your own advise for yourself. Copium yes everyone is doing it too not just me, like you and 4 others about dont know how to play ast just cause I dont play the stupid dirunal good but I do perfectly fine *my comfort* right. It would make more sense I say I cant play either stances cause both of them I do not understand LMAO. Regens game auto healing for you determines if someone good or bad lmao.

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If you knew how to play AST, you'd manage on both sects because they virtually play the same, only the timing of some actions may vary.

I don't know what's wrong with you, no one hates noct, we're just aware diurnal is numerically better and take full advantage of it in high-end content while you're just seething about regen for some reason.

Also regen playing the game for us is genuinely one of the stupidest cope I've ever seen. I can't even comprehend how you can think like that. We're still casting the heal, it just happens slowly over time.

You do know one of SCH's primary healing tool is a regen right? Also are all WHM inherently bad at the game? I hope you never touch Neutral Sect, you might have an allergic reaction.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

If you knew how to play AST, you'd manage on both sects because they virtually play the same, only the timing of some actions may vary.

I don't know what's wrong with you, no one hates noct, we're just aware diurnal is numerically better and take full advantage of it in high-end content while you're just seething about regen for some reason.

Also regen playing the game for us is genuinely one of the stupidest cope I've ever seen. I can't even comprehend how you can think like that. We're still casting the heal, it just happens slowly over time.

You do know one of SCH's primary healing tool is a regen right? Also are all WHM inherently bad at the game? I hope you never touch Neutral Sect, you might have an allergic reaction.

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I dont know what wrong with you either regen is good but others like me prefer shielding again amma just say what you say to me back to you, I hope you dont ever touch have netrual sect either you may vomit from it ^^ . It is not stupid its fact regens is =auto heal game is healing for you, what you push a button to do each regen tic or something if its not auto mech? Oh my cool feature then if that is what it is . Both sects at 72+ are now able to do the job of the other noct or dirunal so neither at that point is better, now 71 and lower content sure maybe the regens better than if you wanna look at it that way. Again as you said your seething about shields for some reason if I am with regens and no one hates dirunal. Some of us eust rather shield heal over regen heal lol which they too got chew up for it as me such as mint honey (the person who made this post) and couple others. I dont care or like anything about SCH it is a sloppy stress mess healer that I do not know how it is even a job seem only alright for ARR content and nothing more, tried healing with it in hw sb shb dungeons once in a while and its just nope cant do it. Did I say any WHM is bad? I have nothing against whm because I started as it and love it myself, will play it sometimes if feeling up for a more different feel. and I always get happy if I get whm or ast as my co healer as long as its not a SCH where am forced that I cant use my noct stance. How would you or anyone feel if dirunal could not work with whm then? You dont sound like manage noct yourself then if your always more in dirunal as you say its the same with both sects. Either play similar but slightly difference. However again shields will win since it can let you survive a tb or accidental cleave from a tank and even block debuff after effects, while you with full hp and regens will just topple over.

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Originally Posted by VictorTheed

Sorry about the astro changes friend, hopefully you'll find another healer u like or end up liking the healer changes.

I was also a big nocturnal sect fan, imo shield healing is easier so it's why I chose astro over whm when I healed dungeons, I hope they keep that move that gives u insta cast for a period of time cause it's been a helpful move for me when it comes to astro.

The sage is gonna be my new healer though cause it's a shield healer and it looks cool, but ultimately that decision will be made once I've got to try out all the healers in 6.0, so best of luck to u pal in your future healing endeavors.

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Yeah exactly we can always move to sage. Say if they have instant cast shield at least and even some type abilty that let us sling spells instantly or power up our spells, well hello upgraded better noct ast I will be more than happy to change x3. Hope the changes we seek and think is the result.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Might watch what you type about wink wink it sounds like harassment, who cares if ast and whm fight about heal I wont be playing either of them when sage come out so their problem if they wanna do that.

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After reading back through this thread's post twice just to be sure, I'm closely striding to the point where (my apologies beforehand..) I'm getting a strong inkling that you're either purely oblivious or simply trolling. I surely hope it's not the latter, because those experienced players were genuinely trying to dismiss many misconceptions/anecdotes with the given cold hard facts.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

By rare when I say I play whm I never had no clipping issues of what you claim so lol

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I never said you are -actually- clipping anything (hint: potentially). But WHMs in fact, has one particular ability that actually benefits them to clip its use if it means to have them constantly on cooldown. So that reply does explain something from this discussion :rolleyes: Heck, I even wonder if we're actually talking about the same 'clipping'...

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Did I mention anything about mechs, also quite a sentiment you and the regen lovers have towards shield heals dont you think so?. Anything yall say about regens is the same as shielding. If yall see noct stance inferior to dirunal, maybe noct ones see dirunal inferior to dirunal, this is nothing but hypocrisy thing and throws off the fact that people need to respect and see how others feel. You and most may not like the noct stance and prefer dirunal it is the same concept to us noct ones. I am sure all you dirunal lovers will be doing the same or feeling the same exact treatment if dirunal was picked to be gotten rid of instead of noct then will do everything in your power to hope it does not go that way. Noct can still give 3 regens via noct intersection, netrual helios/aspected anyways so again how is noct so inferior lol.

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Look mate, we get it. You love Nocturnal Sect with passion. There's nothing wrong in that. Nobody says you are wrong to love Nocturnal. Nobody's 'hating' nocturnal like you have claimed nor implied so far in this thread. In fact some players (including myself) actually LOVES and don't mind to play nocturnal stance in some given time. Spreading misconceptions purely based by feeling while denying any form of opposing facts however, is the last thing these AST lovers wants to see---and frankly, it speaks a lot about yourself.

I do hope you'll find solace in playing Sage in 6.0 like you've replied to somebody else earlier because I feel like it's a lost cause trying to explain further, especially after numerous attempts and hints from the others. Bless :eek:

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

It is not stupid its fact regens is =auto heal game is healing for you, what you push a button to do each regen tic or something if its not auto mech? Oh my cool feature then if that is what it is

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It is stupid, there is an inherent regen both in and out of combat but that is not what our own HoTs are. It's not because they operate on server ticks that the game is doing it for us. The game isn't casting it for us, it's not planning the uses for us, it's really stupid to say that the game is "healing for us" and that we are bad for it.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Both sects at 72+ are now able to do the job of the other noct or dirunal so neither at that point is better

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What? Are you talking about Neutral Sect? So much for claiming to know AST, that's a level 80 and only applies to GCDs on a 2mins cooldown.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Again as you said your seething about shields for some reason if I am with regens and no one hates dirunal.

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I will repeat no one is mad about shield or Nocturnal, we're just aware that Diurnal is numerically better, unlike you who claim regen users are bad at the game, that we're on high horses, and is looking forward Diurnal players failing in 6.0 or something like this. You're mad as hell, don't even.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I dont care or like anything about SCH it is a sloppy stress mess healer that I do not know how it is even a job seem only alright for ARR content and nothing more, tried healing with it in hw sb shb dungeons once in a while and its just nope cant do it.

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SCH rewards skills and planning more than any other healer, it's alright in all type of content. It's not because YOU can't use the job that it's sloppy or a mess.

1/2

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Did I say any WHM is bad?

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If using regen = bad at the game, then yes, you have, at the very least because of Asylum.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

How would you or anyone feel if dirunal could not work with whm then? You dont sound like manage noct yourself then if your always more in dirunal as you say its the same with both sects.

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I would be fine with it and still play AST, there is 0 difference in how Diurnal and Nocturnal are used in casual content and even in higher content it would change close to nothing on AST's gameplay. If you know how to play Noct, you know how to play Diurnal and vice-versa, but your posts and your claim to struggle keeping tanks alive on Diurnal shows that despite thinking you're healing "perfectly" on Noct, it might not be as perfect as you think it is, far from it.
Put me on Diurnal, put me on Nocturnal, I couldn't care less, it will have no influence on how I will use my kit at all.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

However again shields will win since it can let you survive a tb or accidental cleave from a tank and even block debuff after effects, while you with full hp and regens will just topple over.

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TBs and cleaves are not going to kill anyone in casual content without a previous lack of raw healing or them taking free damage, so that's not a good example of use of shields.
There is only two scenarios where using Nocturnal shields to prevent death is valid: early prog of current savage and ultimate content with crafted gear while still trying to figure out mitigation plans, or solo healing current experts, savages or ultimates. Period. Outside of these scenarios, a death will not be on a healer expected to shield, but either on a lack of raw healing, on the person(s) who died or whoever was in charge of mitigating.
I'm not sure what you mean with that last part though. It's not because it overheals a few people that it's a waste. In any healing situation, if say you use Diurnal CO to heal one or two person, they will get out of with more HP than if you had pre-emptively shielded them with Nocturnal CO because the healing potency of Diurnal is 700 while for Nocturnal its 200 + a negated 250, that's a difference of 250 potency between Diurnal and Nocturnal. That's as if the shield was applied twice and entirely consumed.

2/2

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Yes you may as well do so yourself it as a filthy shield on it and you may get poisoned , its a shame noct dont have the same thing cu,/star/co/celestial intersection.

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Unlike yourself, "Regen lovers" are actually quite adaptable and will use a full shield opener on the pre-pull, use Dirunal CI almost on CD and put Neutral to use quite often.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Unlike yourself, "Regen lovers" are actually quite adaptable and will use a full shield opener on the pre-pull, use Dirunal CI almost on CD and put Neutral to use quite often.

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I barely see any ast using neutral actually in this case if i get another ast and whatever sect they went to, they an do not be using neutral an entire raid or if they do, they use it at some wierd or not necessary moment and on pre pulls I use both shields and neutral too. So shield lovers are quite adaptable too and will use a full regen opener on pre pull as well via Noct CI

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I barely see any ast using neutral actually in this case if i get another ast and whatever sect they went to, they an do not be using neutral an entire raid or if they do, they use it at some wierd or not necessary moment and on pre pulls I use both shields and neutral too. So shield lovers are quite adaptable too and will use a full regen opener on pre pull as well via Noct CI

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You... don't need regens pre-prull. There is nothing to heal. Pre-pull Neutral Sect is only to apply shields when going into the fight on Diurnal.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

It is stupid, there is an inherent regen both in and out of combat but that is not what our own HoTs are. It's not because they operate on server ticks that the game is doing it for us. The game isn't casting it for us, it's not planning the uses for us, it's really stupid to say that the game is "healing for us" and that we are bad for it.


What? Are you talking about Neutral Sect? So much for claiming to know AST, that's a level 80 and only applies to GCDs on a 2mins cooldown.


I will repeat no one is mad about shield or Nocturnal, we're just aware that Diurnal is numerically better, unlike you who claim regen users are bad at the game, that we're on high horses, and is looking forward Diurnal players failing in 6.0 or something like this. You're mad as hell, don't even.


SCH rewards skills and planning more than any other healer, it's alright in all type of content. It's not because YOU can't use the job that it's sloppy or a mess.

1/2

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Dark knght living dead sch has no aether flow to lustrate or exco= dead dark night or overall difficult to manage big trash pulls. = whm= benediction or solace, ast = es or light speed benefic 2 sling and overall both is able to big pull with no problem. Indom a rather weak heal aoe that need aether flow and has a 35 second cd where as helios/medica does not and overall again most it heal is too heavy on that aether flow mech.. Unlike you some who claim noct users are bad at the game or dont know how to play ast , yes your on your high horse just like how yall glad noct is begin gone instead of dirunal in 6.0 ^^

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Dark knght living dead sch has no aether flow to lustrate or exco= dead dark night or overall difficult to manage big trash pulls. = whm= benediction or solace, ast = es or light speed benefic 2 sling and overall both is able to big pull with no problem. Indom a rather weak heal aoe that need aether flow and has a 35 second cd where as helios/medica does not and overall again most it heal is too heavy on that aether flow mech.. Unlike you some who claim noct users are bad at the game or dont know how to play ast , yes your on your high horse just like how yall glad noct is begin gone instead of dirunal in 6.0 ^^

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Ruin II > Swiftcast > Dissipation > Physick > Recitation > Emergency Tactics > Adlo > Physick > Lustrate and it should definitely remove the debuff. It's probably harder to get out of Living Dead on AST than SCH tbh.

The difference between Indow and Helios/Medica is that the latter are GCDs and using them costs damage. Technically so does Indom but I'm not sure how the recent potency changes to ED affected it's use.

Also I'm not claiming Noct users don't know how to play AST, I'm claiming specifically you don't know how to play AST.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

After reading back through this thread's post twice just to be sure, I'm closely striding to the point where (my apologies beforehand..) I'm getting a strong inkling that you're either purely oblivious or simply trolling. I surely hope it's not the latter, because those experienced players were genuinely trying to dismiss many misconceptions/anecdotes with the given cold hard facts.

I never said you are -actually- clipping anything (hint: potentially). But WHMs in fact, has one particular ability that actually benefits them to clip its use if it means to have them constantly on cooldown. So that reply does explain something from this discussion :rolleyes: Heck, I even wonder if we're actually talking about the same 'clipping'...

Look mate, we get it. You love Nocturnal Sect with passion. There's nothing wrong in that. Nobody says you are wrong to love Nocturnal. Nobody's 'hating' nocturnal like you have claimed nor implied so far in this thread. In fact some players (including myself) actually LOVES and don't mind to play nocturnal stance in some given time. Spreading misconceptions purely based by feeling while denying any form of opposing facts however, is the last thing these AST lovers wants to see---and frankly, it speaks a lot about yourself.

I do hope you'll find solace in playing Sage in 6.0 like you've replied to somebody else earlier because I feel like it's a lost cause trying to explain further, especially after numerous attempts and hints from the others. Bless :eek:

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Is it a crime to reply to somebody who shares my opinion and what you and others brag about dirunal and saying rude things like not knowing how to play ast cause I have issue using it in dirunal as opposed to noct says alot about you and them too. You and some others do degrade people just because of one thing they may not use
well or not like. Also as you say we noct stance lovers get yall are compassionate about dirunal as well do too. It is fair now to say if am like oh my I cant play ether stances of this class and this class is whack or too complicated or has no use then it be more fair saying I just dont how to play it since am complaining about the entire thing of the class instead of one thing. One thing should not mean a person is entirely bad at it. Its like a fighting game where a person can have different opinions on a char. Some may find it too powerful or some may thing it lacks power but it dont mean that the one who think it lacks power means they just a bad player. It can just mean it dont fit their play style and aint their cup of tea I do not mind what people dislikes or like fine but when it becomes too far in degrading someone that they dont play something right it becomes very serious. Also with your last comment idk sarcastic or not so well if your not thank you, and if you are still have a blessed day yourself.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Ruin II > Swiftcast > Dissipation > Physick > Recitation > Emergency Tactics > Adlo > Physick until it wears off if necessary. It's probably harder to get out of Living Dead on AST than SCH tbh.

The difference between Indow and Helios/Medica is that the latter are GCDs and using them costs damage. Technically so does Indom but I'm not sure how the recent potency changes to ED affected it's use.

Also I'm not claiming Noct users don't know how to play AST, I'm claiming specifically you don't know how to play AST.

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This make no sense what your saying, I am a noct user lol. You saying other noct users know how to play ast but I dont who also is a noct user? that is alot of prep thing to counter trying to heal up a dark knight as sch . dignity=lower targets hp the more potency it is up to 1100pot mine crit up to 90kish on a tank + then a light speed benefic 2 also works just as well. umm there is some bosses that starts off with pretty big aoes even if its light parties so pre regen can be used.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

This make no sense what your saying, I am a noct user lol. You saying other noct users know how to play ast but I dont who also is a noct user?

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I'll reiterate, the sect is irrelevant, you either know AST or you don't. And what I'm saying is you don't know how to play AST.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

that is alot of prep thing to counter trying to heal up a dark knight as sch . dignity=lower targets hp the more potency it is up to 1100pot mine crit up to 90kish on a tank + then a light speed benefic 2 also works just as well.

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That's not prep, that's reaction and most likely overkill, and it's done within 3 to 4 GCDs. Yes it's a lot of work but that's what SCH is.

Crits are unreliable and just ED > LS > Bene 2 is very unlikely to make the cut.
Also you say SCH without Aetherflow so naturally I wrote that down with the handicap. Ruin II/Art of War > Recitation > Emergency Tactics > Ruin II > Excog > ____ > Adlo will work within 3GCDs as well and will be likely overkill too especially with a tethered fairy.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

I'll reiterate, the sect is irrelevant, you either know AST or you don't. And what I'm saying is you don't know how to play AST.



That's not prep, that's reaction and most likely overkill, and it's done within 3 to 4 GCDs. Yes it's a lot of work but that's what SCH is.

Crits are unreliable and just ED > LS > Bene 2 is very unlikely to make the cut.
Also you say SCH without Aetherflow so naturally I wrote that down with the handicap. Ruin II/Art of War > Recitation > Emergency Tactics > Ruin II > Excog > ____ > Adlo will work within 3GCDs as well and will be likely overkill too especially with a tethered fairy.

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Too much prep what part of that you dont get, having to do like 5 + things to top up a dark night and I just need 2 or 3?, anyways ed and light speed benefic 2 is enough to top up the dark knight lmao. Your the one who sure as heck dont know to play ast if you think ed and lightspeed bene 2 is not enough. crits or no its easy to top up a dark knight or party heal with a whm or ast than a sch to me.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I think I proved enough it too that you and all you regens lovers do not play it right too cause you need game to auto heal for you because you cant do the task yourself^^

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I'm not a regen lover.
I prefer shielding.
My best healing experience is HW Scholar so far.

Facts, maths and logic are what they are, no matter what you like.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I dont care about sch period. Also you dont know how to play ast either ^^.

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You should, part of knowing how to heal is knowing the kit of your co-healer.

Unlike you I haven't said anything that could indicate that I don't know AST. I'm not going to further waste my time arguing with a wall and ruining the thread, I'm just glad we're on different data centers. Good luck clearing anything harder than Matoya's Relict with your attitude :)

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

You should, part of knowing how to heal is knowing the kit of your co-healer.

Unlike you I haven't said anything that could indicate that I don't know AST. I'm not going to further waste my time arguing with a wall and ruining the thread, I'm just glad we're on different data centers. Good luck clearing anything harder than Matoya's Relict with your attitude :)

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The same to you and when I get a sch as my co healer I leave, I clearly said I do not want em ever as my co healer. You did say something that show you dont know ast. You said you doubt ed and light speed benefic 2 will fully heal up a dark night under living dead LOL. Good luck trying to understand things better and not trying to use something lame as a matoya relic clearing to try make it seem as if your all that. I do savages and ex and clear em with np so ok lol.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

I'm not a regen lover.
I prefer shielding.
My best healing experience is HW Scholar so far.

Facts, maths and logic are what they are, no matter what you like.

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Hmm yeah and so is opinions whether people agree or not

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

The same to you and when I get a sch as my co healer I leave, I clearly said I do not want em ever as my co healer. You did say something that show you dont know ast. You said you doubt ed and light speed benefic 2 will fully heal up a dark night under living dead LOL. Good luck trying to understand things better and not trying to use something lame as a matoya relic clearing to try make it seem as if your all that. I do savages and ex and clear em with np so ok lol.

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You cleared savage but did not get a single piece of ilv530 gear on your main job and don't even have a page on fflogs?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

You cleared savage but did not get a single piece of ilv530 gear on your main job and don't even have a page on fflogs?

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So your a stalker now? I had no interest in this set of eden savages. I am too busy doing relics for my gatherers and crafters atm. I stop caring about savage or ultimates after E8 really.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

You cleared savage but did not get a single piece of ilv530 gear on your main job and don't even have a page on fflogs?

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not everyone parses mate. Some people prefer not to break TOS

You don't need to have ACT to have logs.
Very unlikely to see a static or pug a tier without someone running ACT.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Hmm yeah and so is opinions whether people agree or not

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2+2 = 4, and your opinion will never change that.

If the shield doesn't prevent death, then shielding for 300 is less efficient than regening for 700.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I barely see any ast using neutral actually in this case if i get another ast and whatever sect they went to, they an do not be using neutral an entire raid or if they do, they use it at some wierd or not necessary moment and on pre pulls I use both shields and neutral too. So shield lovers are quite adaptable too and will use a full regen opener on pre pull as well via Noct CI

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If you're doing a prepull regen opener and call it adaptable it's not wonder you struggle with Diurnal.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

2+2 = 4, and your opinion will never change that.

If the shield doesn't prevent death, then shielding for 300 is less efficient than regening for 700.

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Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

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Can you name 1 example of a boss attack that is a guaranteed 1-shot regardless of gear level and demands a shield to be survived?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

You don't need to have ACT to have logs.
Very unlikely to see a static or pug a tier without someone running ACT.

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A pity since the ishgard restoration I had stop caring about savages and ultimates after E8, it does become boring and repetitive, eventually new gear come out and here you are again having to pug and what not all that gear becomes old news. Doing savages and ultimates aint the only way to enjoy the game, least not for me gathering and crafting has been quite entertaining now since I finally got into it, aiming for a good plot of land or what not so do not care atm about battle gear really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Ok and the 700 regen will never stop you from 1 death mechs like a shield has the ability to.

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Let me highlight for you what you so skillfully ignored.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

If the shield doesn't prevent death, then shielding for 300 is less efficient than regening for 700.

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If shielding isn't absolutely neccessary even after exhausting all other options to survive a hit, it's a waste. Period. You can still prefer it but that doesn't make it objectively better.
And there isn't a single mechanic that will be a guaranteed one shot regardless of gear level and with mitigation. I'm pretty sure you as an experienced savage raider have noticed that people don't just drop dead from ful HP because of one raidwide.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Let me highlight for you what you so skillfully ignored.



If shielding isn't absolutely neccessary even after exhausting all other options to survive a hit, it's a waste. Period. You can still prefer it but that doesn't make it objectively better.
And there isn't a single mechanic that will be a guaranteed one shot regardless of gear level and with mitigation. I'm pretty sure you as an experienced savage raider have noticed that people don't just drop dead from ful HP because of one raidwide.

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Ok the regens are better than shields yeah let me just agree to all of you and validate and acknowledge that .Heard it like 100 times or more. However whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Ok the regens are better than shields yeah yeah let me just agree to yall Heard it like 100 times or more,whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

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Pretty sure plenty of people have said that prefering Noct over Diurnal is fine. And no one is denying that AST losing Noct isn't losing another piece of its identity. But that's the thing, its a piece. The major identity of AST has been the cards. Not the dual stances. If dual stances was actually its thing, SE would've allowed/forced us to switch in combat to do both and be an actual hybrid.

Fact is removing Noctural sect allows AST to have oppertunities:

- Regain its buffing identity by having more of an emphasis on cards
- Give it a stronger healing identity other than WHM 2.0 or SCH lite
- No longer gives SE an excuse for AST's wonky balancing act.

Removing Noct not only gives rise to the potential of better AST balancing, but also SCH balancing, allows for SGE to even exist (because 3 shield healers?) and over all gives breathing room for healers. Does it suck that Noct is being axed? Yes. Would I have rather SE try to keep it while also adding in a fourth healer? (I didn't want a fourth healing to begin with but) Yes. But as I've said before, the pieces for Noct to be removed were already in place and if this means as an AST player I get:

A properly reworked healer that's no longer a WHM clone and/or
A better card system

I am 100% on board with Nocturnal's removal from the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Ok the regens are better than shields yeah yeah let me just agree to yall Heard it like 100 times or more,whether normal stuff/raid stuff/ main point is idc regens from the it become some mere 15 seconds where I liked it better when it was 30 seconds, still prefer shields even if they are not necessary at current content. What is wrong with what some one prefer whether its bad or good or situational, its my choice of (preference) which is the key term here. What is it a crime to like something even if something is better than it? some play the job for regens some play it for shielding, hybrid jobs give players things they enjoy and options to pick from it, anyone gets annoyed when a hybrid job is being stripped of something. kill the cards now taking away noct stance, may as well remove both stance and let the job hard core focus its card function again. Do some interesting rework that lets the card do things like buff/heals/migi abit like the storm blood cards but better if everyone say that ast should have its own identity and not be a copied clone stronger whm (which do not say that saying mind you. just I see people say it who do not fancy ast period*

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Something I think you failed to realize from the get-go was that no one was telling you that you can't enjoy Nocturnal Sect. When the (extremely unnecessary) back and forth began, people brought up that Nocturnal Sect wasn't frequently used anyway because even when paired with another Regen healer, Diurnal was superior from a mechanical stand-point. Barriers in the way they've been designed are just glorified pure heals, and since no mechanics will kill a party member at full health without a barrier, it doesn't serve a purpose (at least the way it's currently designed). You fought this constantly across pages and pages of this discussion--not just that you like barriers, but that the people stating this were wrong and didn't understand the value of barriers.

That is why this discussion has gone on for an ungodly amount of time. All you needed to do from the get-go was say "Okay, I get that regens are stronger, but I like barriers from a thematic standpoint and wish they would find a way to make it better rather than getting rid of it on AST."

There are plenty of ways they could make barriers more impactful. Look at Dark Knight: Blackest Night is a great example of how to make a barrier valuable. Not only do you get to negate a certain amount of damage, but if the barrier breaks, you get a free attack.

That would be great for Sage for example. When your barriers break, you fill up a gauge that you can burn on more powerful DPS. There are other possibilities too, some of which could've been used for Nocturnal Stance. What if buffing an ally who has a barrier refreshes the barrier's value and it's duration, so even though it's weaker than a regen on paper, you could keep it alive through OGCD tools to extend the benefit of having it? What if your barriers were a lot weaker, but rather than being eaten by damage, getting hit doesn't deplete it. The barrier just decreases damage received by that amount for every hit during it's duration? There are other things they could do with barriers.

You could've just directed the conversation that way rather than fight people who were just trying to get through to you that they weren't criticizing liking barriers, but the effect of barriers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Pretty sure plenty of people have said that prefering Noct over Diurnal is fine. And no one is denying that AST losing Noct isn't losing another piece of its identity. But that's the thing, its a piece. The major identity of AST has been the cards. Not the dual stances. If dual stances was actually its thing, SE would've allowed/forced us to switch in combat to do both and be an actual hybrid.

Fact is removing Noctural sect allows AST to have oppertunities:

- Regain its buffing identity by having more of an emphasis on cards
- Give it a stronger healing identity other than WHM 2.0 or SCH lite
- No longer gives SE an excuse for AST's wonky balancing act.

Removing Noct not only gives rise to the potential of better AST balancing, but also SCH balancing, allows for SGE to even exist (because 3 shield healers?) and over all gives breathing room for healers. Does it suck that Noct is being axed? Yes. Would I have rather SE try to keep it while also adding in a fourth healer? (I didn't want a fourth healing to begin with but) Yes. But as I've said before, the pieces for Noct to be removed were already in place and if this means as an AST player I get:

A properly reworked healer that's no longer a WHM clone and/or
A better card system

I am 100% on board with Nocturnal's removal from the game.

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Fair point I respect that and agree was hoping the opposite that sage be pure heal and ast stay shielder tbh haha but all is good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Something I think you failed to realize from the get-go was that no one was telling you that you can't enjoy Nocturnal Sect. When the (extremely unnecessary) back and forth began, people brought up that Nocturnal Sect wasn't frequently used anyway because even when paired with another Regen healer, Diurnal was superior from a mechanical stand-point. Barriers in the way they've been designed are just glorified pure heals, and since no mechanics will kill a party member at full health without a barrier, it doesn't serve a purpose (at least the way it's currently designed). You fought this constantly across pages and pages of this discussion--not just that you like barriers, but that the people stating this were wrong and didn't understand the value of barriers.

That is why this discussion has gone on for an ungodly amount of time. All you needed to do from the get-go was say "Okay, I get that regens are stronger, but I like barriers from a thematic standpoint and wish they would find a way to make it better rather than getting rid of it on AST."

There are plenty of ways they could make barriers more impactful. Look at Dark Knight: Blackest Night is a great example of how to make a barrier valuable. Not only do you get to negate a certain amount of damage, but if the barrier breaks, you get a free attack.

That would be great for Sage for example. When your barriers break, you fill up a gauge that you can burn on more powerful DPS. There are other possibilities too, some of which could've been used for Nocturnal Stance. What if buffing an ally who has a barrier refreshes the barrier's value and it's duration, so even though it's weaker than a regen on paper, you could keep it alive through OGCD tools to extend the benefit of having it? What if your barriers were a lot weaker, but rather than being eaten by damage, getting hit doesn't deplete it. The barrier just decreases damage received by that amount for every hit during it's duration? There are other things they could do with barriers.

You could've just directed the conversation that way rather than fight people who were just trying to get through to you that they weren't criticizing liking barriers, but the effect of barriers.

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I did that in my last post literally on the first line acknowledging the regen thing now instead of dragging this endless fight and agreed to everyone and just in the end easy thing to say I just prefer migitation even if its not needed. I agree with the idea you have and hope that again am sure we all want this that the cards really get something worth for vs this current boring same thing. Can always make memory vids for keeps before ast get change again like I did before sbh came with the old cards, good times and memories:). Just will move on to sage if it has what I hope it will have as a new barrier healer and overall its aspect is fun looking.