This is very true. In fact, most people prefer simplicity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edax
Lets use music as an example.
Pop music is the most popular genre. It is the most simplistic of all genres.
Death Metal is not very popular much at all, but it requires significantly more talent and time to create and produce. The lyrics have significantly more depth, the notes are more intricate, there are more instruments the require more harmonious team work with the band, I could go on and on.
The point I'm making, is well.. this is a RPG.
Even Yoshida himself said FFXIV is a Final Fantasy first, and a MMO second.
But what is Final Fantasy? Its certainly not a platform game like Mario. Mario is significantly more popular than Final Fantasy.
What has been happening to FFXIV, and the Final Fantasy franchise in more recent years, while I still enjoy each and every one, including this one, they seem to be forgetting what a RPG is, and that, well, Final Fantasy is a RPG.
A RPG is not just a game with a great story. Mario, or Tomb Raider, or Dynasty Warriors, or even Halo can have great stories and focus a lot of time making those games with great stories. What makes a RPG a RPG is not just a good story, but character development. Something that FFXIV is nearly entirely devoid of. This was my point.
A great RPG can balance simplicity, and optional character development/customization.
FFXIV is too simplistic and bland
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10-25-2020, 12:00 AMDaniolaut
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10-25-2020, 12:06 AMDaniolautGood question!Quote:
Originally Posted by Conando
Imagine if Gunbreaker had unique traits or actions!
Meaning, what if there was a reason to play GNB instead of DRK outside of FFLogs/aesthetics!
What if all 4 tanks were perfectly balanced, but they each had unique features outside of aesthetics?
One example of this could be:
PLD Job trait: Level 30 1% reduction to gear durability loss. Level 50 Reduction of 3% gear durability loss., level 57 Reduction of 4% gear durability loss. etc.
WAR: Job trait: Level 30 increase of 1% food duration. Level 48 increase of 3% food duration. etc.
DRK: Job trait: level 50 Edge of Darkness enhancement 20% chance death effect to open world mobs only. ++ as you level
GNB: Job trait: Level 45 Triple Triad card acquisition rate +10%, Level 55 Triple Triad card acquisition rate + 20% ++ as you level!
This makes jobs more unique without changing anything balance wise.
Then taking that even further, what if there were super difficult and engaging side quests to unlock these traits so they became tied to your character (after leveling the job for the said trait of course) so you didnt have to be on that job specifically to use the acquired trait!
What this type of system would do, is it would 1: encourage the player to level said job to obtain said stat/trait, then to do the optional quests, to allow full access to said traits!
FFXIV could do many many things, instead its in super safe easy mode. -
10-25-2020, 01:41 AMPentheaHaha no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
Pop music can be very complex if you look at the whole picture. People usually think "oh the lyrics are basic" or "there is a lot of repetition", but they often don't think of stuff like interesting chord progressions, key changes, rhythm, texture changes and of course the tremendous amount of mixing that is done, especially today. However I will say that the complexity does very much depend on what is trendy and what part of the world you're looking at. For example I have noticed that key changes happen far more currently in kpop than western pop, but that wasn't always the case because...
...pop music has been the fastest evolving genre music has ever had. Every genre evolves but because pop specifically targets trends, it is changes A LOT. Why? Because it is not a specific genre in of itself. The genre is simply "music that takes advantage of what the masses find appealing" which is something that constantly changes. This can be seen in how only a handful of old hits persist in radio play today, while a large amount of hits from the same era no longer have enough listeners that enjoy it.
Also complexity doesn't necessarily make something enjoyable. I have encountered a lot of music that impressed me as a classically trained musician but I didn't actually like the music. I can appreciate what composers and vocalists achieved because I understand what they're doing, but that doesn't guarantee that I will actually enjoy listening to it more than once. This has happened to me in literally every genre I have listened to, and I'm the sort of person who listens to a long list of music genres.
As for gaming, there are a lot of games whose complexity I appreciate but the particular way it has been done is not personally appealing for me. RTS games for example. There is often an incredible amount of complexity in those games, but on a personal level I rarely enjoy them. The pacing is not to my taste, and I am more interested in playing as an individual on the battlefield than being a commander that delegates others to do battle.
I don't think SE are forgetting what a rpg is. I far prefer the older FF games but I don't think the modern FF games are any less of a rpg than the older titles. They still have everything that makes a rpg a rpg. The difference is technology has moved on far enough that mechanics that were impossible to develop before can be done now. As much as I adore the old FF games at their core they're very samey, and that's because the tech didn't exist to do much more than that. It just happened that particular core appealed to a large amount of people, so those games were successful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
Also audiences change. While sometimes people feel that changing games to suit a change in audience can be a bad thing, at the end of the day SE are a business. They need to create something that sells well. And well...FFXIV is becoming more popular with each expansion. A person may not like the direction the game is going in, but they cannot dispute the fact that the formula is a success.
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And as for OP...I wonder why they even play this game. I have seen so many threads by them that go into great detail about why they think the game isn't good and honestly it just looks like they wish FFXIV was a completely different game. When I realised WoW was no longer the game for me I didn't make thread after thread after thread about how I disliked the majority of the game. I just left and played something else. -
10-25-2020, 03:07 AMSauteed
I understand about a game no longer being for someone and playing something else. I think what the OP is getting at is they came to the FF series early on and enjoyed the games by and large on the whole.
I am not as loyal to the FF series, I think some really SUCKED, can't stand them, can't believe they were even made and released as is, and people can even remotely look at them and find them entertaining or whatever else or view them as good games. To list a few I hated beyond imagining, Final Fantasy 5, Final Fantasy 12, Final Fantasy 13, Final Fantasy X-2, some of the FFT spin off stuff.. I also did not like IX, like that is one I will not replay or even look back on fondly, I thought it sucked, big time.. but I didn't hate it. I played it through but never like made it a point to beat Ozma or any of that. I thought well, it was a weak point in the series, it'll redeem itself.. So I came across X some time later, and liked it well enough. I did not like the voice acting. But I enjoyed it. I did not beat everything in the 'extras' category of the game, but I did do quite a bit of the monster hunting and sphere grid stuff. I got to XII and was like oh boy, this sucks. It was like an offline MMO, with all the bad elements of MMO's and the pacing of a dead not good while it was a live race horse.. This was the game that caused me to make a forum account on a gaming forum to voice my concern, and people chased me with their little digitial pitch forks and torches to try and beat my viewpoints into their little shapes and mindsets but I was unphazed. I completely even to this day hold that XII in the FF series was a massive down turn in terms of game design and game play. Story and character writing also completely sucked in my view. Like I will hold no punches when talking of that game. It's garbage in my honest opinion and I was like if they release another game like this, I'm pretty well done with the series... On to, XIII.. which was in every single way MUCH more inferior even to XII save for some of the graphical elements.. And I say SOME because in a lot of ways I feel everything was lesser than XII. Less visually appealing to me that is. Character customization also much less involved, even the control you have over your "active" character seemed lesser. Less resource management, less interesting character design, just everything was pretty much horrible, again in my honest opinion. I hated it. At that point I told myself, never again with the offline ff series.. I've not played XV and never will. I doubt I'd play it if it was freely given to me.
XIV on the other hand, has fun content, and I completely feel the story while it started semi - ok and not good by any stretch of the imagination, fell completely apart for me by the time we're into ShB, and I've completely lost interest in that. It's kind of a useless waste of time and effort trying to make sense of it in my opinion, and any "cool" hopes or thoughts into seems to blast off into the most eefus idiotic dumbness I could ever imagine it spinning into. All things pertaining to Zenos are just absolutely fantastical blunders of story telling, I'm convinced the character was written up by some dev's child and out of a sense of love possibly trying to encourage the child they took what was written up and tried to cram it into the story so they didn't make their kid feel bad? That's about the best way I can explain my view of how the character is. Ran'jit, Vaulthry, Emet Selch, and the current Ascian stuff along with Elidibus has been for me the most like unengaging and ridiculous stuff I've seen in Fantasy in my nearly 40 years of life. Vaulthry (not evne sure I'm spelling that right) sits atop the stack as the best of the worst tho, in that he seemed the most in place of them all. I feel like the whole crystal exarch thing was like a huge how far from left field can we take the plot and roll with it. The entire ShB storyline to me is just shambles, and an excuse to take us to some other completely different world build. Some of the zones I like more than others, but on the whole just don't care for the First and all it's "stuff". But this is just my personal views, I don't expect everyone to feel this way, but I honestly fail to see how people can say "the best story evar!!!" or best ff story etc. As basic and not fleshed out as Final Fantasy 6 was, at the time it really left an impression on me and yes I saw the allusions to Star Wars in some of it, and hammy writing in some places, and I was in my teens at the time and I was the epitome teen fanboism that is typically associated with the age group in a lot of ways. So I get that some people may feel passionately about this game. Like the actual term esper to me was some cool new term! It wasn't until some time later the term was drawn from Extra Sensory Perception 'er Or ESP'er.. I played Phantasy Star II on the Sega Genesis, many years ago, and the term ESPER is in that too, a guy named Lux on the 2nd planet there is an ESPER, so the term is not a FF only term.
Back to the point I was sorta kinda getting at tho, I can understand wanting to let the OP know that hey it's ok not to like a game, and it might even a bit misguided to come on the forums and expect to set some Bunsen burners under the devs um.. buns and get some "positive" encouragement going amongst them. But I can also understand where the OP is coming from as well. For a lot of newer gamers XI just flat sucks. Big time. For me personally XI is great, I loved it. I loved it before Abyssea, and just can't get invested in the modern incarnation. But for what few things I still enjoy about XIV, I play for. And when it gets to that same point that I just kind of view XI in, I'll find something else. There are only a few things I still like about XIV, and for what I do like about it, I'll just continue enjoying til they eventually "mess" that up too. But my enthusiasm is fading over it. The housing situation needs help. The closer we get to "ishgard" being rebuilt, the more I realize they probably really are going to ham that up and release it in the same way Goblet, Shirogane, Lavender Beds, and The Mist is with limited amounts of plots and people viciously gobbling them up and leaving a large portion of hopefuls out in the dust.
Additional stuff I'm not slightly stoked for in XIV = pvp, side content cutting up and tossing in the fire like hard mode dungeons, "Dwarves" being called a beast tribe (racist to lala confirmation! > _ >) music direction in general, there's still a few gems showing up at times, and Zenos/Fandaniel plotline probably gonna equate to me slamming escape when cut scenes show up. Which isn't good for a 'story driven' mmorpg. Lack of world based objectives is starting to set in.
I like the how fates in the first work, I like a few things about how gathering works, but outside of that, HUNTS and the way those are handled suck in implementation. More and more people seem to complain about needing mega beef computers just to load in before a hunt is felled, and people complain of toxic behavior and exploits revolving around the system. I don't care because the drip feed method of gearing up to me is completely irrelevant and boring in the first place, which is well, bad. Boring is probably the main sin of games that needs to be seriously addressed. And a lot of the game to me is kind of boring, but what I like, makes up for it. It isn't that this is some Final Fantasy game that I like. I'd say the things I like about Final Fantasy games in general are absent and have been absent from the series for going on a decade or more. This whole new wave of stuff they seem to toss in these games is like the complete opposite of what I want in a video game at all. And to kind of go a step further, I saw the trailer for XVI and thought it was kind of just not good at all or remotely interesting to me. So, I guess I'm not even a FF fan now. I like MMO's tho, for their social aspects. And XIV has a way of kind of removing that more and more in all the content it has been releasing lately. Maybe not completely, but seems that it is finding ways to get around the multi-player aspects more and more. Anyhow enough of my rambling. -
10-25-2020, 03:38 AMMsMisatoThey like the game but don't agree with the direction and that is ok. They post here to see if other people feel the same way and or hoping the devs see's it.From what I gathered its a mix bag of nuts honestly. Some people agree, some don't, but regardless its always good to see what people like and don't like imo. I don't think its any different from any one else posting the same thing over in any of the other forums here. But then again its the forums. I see the same people on twitter post the same thing over and over lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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10-25-2020, 07:00 AMRavenblade1979
*claps* interesting high quality bait. You can deny and say it's not but it is.
Let's face it. The game became geared to casuals because they make up the huge bulk of the subscribers. That iant saying they dont give content for those wanting more but you gotta work for it.
Like seriously. End of the day this game is a bit to old for the complete overhaul you think it should have simple because you wanna relive the glory of the ffxi days.
Which by the way is still active and you can sub too -
10-25-2020, 08:54 AMXatsh
The FFXI is still there argument does not work. They overhauled ffxi, so sorta a different game then it use to be. Can't really go back to it if you want to play what most say when they want "FFXI". Would be like saying classic WoW and Current WoW are the exact same game just one has less content. FFXI current and Pre-abysea are the same situation, same theme but drastically different play style, feel, and focus.
But yes FFXIV is probably the most causal focused mmo on the market, and it is ungodly simplistic, overly casual, and dumbed down to the point of a major fault. The game is almost 100% revolving around glamour, mount farming, and vanity at this point. but it is way too old to do any major overhauls though as it would take a rework of almost everything to unsimplify it and add some unique things, depth, and any kind of player choice. It honestly has the same problem WoW had in BfA and legion and such had. Only different is the story in FFXIV is drastically better, and it is even more casual focused.
The main reason it will not change though is Yoshida. He does not want a full deep and complex mmo. The player choice, risk vs reward, large guilds, huge open world, rare loot farming, strong economy, complex classes and so on. He wants a casual, highly polished co-op themepark style ff game that is designed for people who have very little game time to play.
And for those people with families, 10-20hrs of max game time a week, or those wanting something they can just log into and log out of without any commitment FFXIV is the best choice of a mmo style game atm. An overhaul at this point would cause alot of the playerbase to quit, because most the players of this game after all these years are extremely casual players who want this style of game. There was alot more hardcore player back in ARR's day but they either moved on and quit entirely, or they log in for major raid patches play for a few months then unsub for a half a year.
Tldr; FFXIV is not a game that has Depth and Complexity and it is that way by design. If you like it keep playing if not go elsewhere because the devs made it clear this style game was their intent. -
10-25-2020, 09:19 AMSauteedVery well said. Both points here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xatsh
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10-25-2020, 11:06 AMPsytic
Its unfortunate that the wording of the title will bring out all the white knights when there's solid points in this post. I 100% agree that the open world leveling feels like something Circa 2000 and needs work. Its one of the largest turn-offs to new players. Most people rush past it via potd because its just not a good expiernace.
The world is actually extremely bland he's right. Some of that may be due to memory limitation on PS4 they can't add too many varied objects etc. but the answer to that is to make more smaller zones with more unique features. We dont need large swaths of barren red sand desert nothing going on. Repeated rock wall textures. Its boring. The ARR zones actually seemed to have more unique map features so it seems to coincide with the addition of flying that they felt they needed to make large zones but couldn't fill them with anything but repeated rocks and trees due to said limitations.
The game is fun but I have to agree open world needs more effort. Look at a Guild Wars 2 zone on a much older Direct X 9 engine and you'll see the difference in artistic creativity on a much worse engine. -
10-25-2020, 11:16 AMRazardThen maybe TC should learn how to communicate his point without resorting to shrieking melodrama.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytic
Also, classy. :rolleyes: -
10-25-2020, 12:03 PMItMeDeath/black metal started as Lofi played by a guy (Varg) in jail by what little they could get their hands on and in many many ways hasn't been trying to grow too far from its foundations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
Technical death metal exists, but for the most part you're overgeneralizing and overselling the complexity for the sake of pushing your flawed metaphor.
Also
"Pop music" is a meaningless genera. It's literally short for "popular music."Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
For example, in the 80's freaking Judas Priest was classified as Pop Music.
That genra is too nebulous to fit into your metaphor and it only serves to undermine your point. -
10-25-2020, 04:53 PMShougun
Sorry how tangent this is but I'm always impressed with people who can differentiate genres. I have a decent hearing memory (somehow can tell actors by voice better than their face..), but when people ask to describe what music I like it's uh... "Hodor likes music *grunt*".
Can tell you the artists or instruments but the genre is vague to me, like colors. I work in the primary colors only lol. Impressions or feelings I remember well, could describe music in movements or feelings and hum it, but organizing them into stratified groups.. at least for music specifically.. that's not happening. Abilities or units in a game but not music, brain quits. We used to have a music thread when ARR was getting ready to release- was fun to see everyone's music preferences. I feel you can tend to see a relation of how they write and the choices people use to want to share with others. Like I'm a bit chaotic in music tastes, prefrence to deep and peaceful sounds and then on the extreme with what my wife calls "noise" lol, and I imagine that's how I look in writing :p.
As for the multi quote Daniolaut I'll probably respond to it Monday :) (I did see it). Already wrote a bit this weekend being self admitly obnoxiously passionate and salty about blue lol. -
10-25-2020, 05:01 PMLolitaBansheeMeruQuote:
Originally Posted by HeulGDarian
Ya because they had horrible advertising is really the only reason it flopped hell I didn't even know the game existed until a day they removed it.. and I would have gladly played what saw on it over 14s honestly.
alot of people didn't even know 1.0 even existed so .. saying its a flop had nothing to do with systems they just didn't spread it around properly .... all things considered it looks way better than current ffxiv outside "graphic upgrades" -
10-25-2020, 05:09 PMHeulGDariani like having antithesis in my music, like a mellow melodic sound that is followed by hard rock or metal. Id say i prefer metal over other music genre, but im no stranger to the idea of listening maybe some classic, balads , jpop or even jazz and swing. Honestly its all in the mood. Id say the only thing i dont like is maybe rap but even then i blame it more to me being prejudged and too lazy to look or even leave my comfort zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shougun
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10-25-2020, 08:28 PMItMeActually... even the people that played it where overwhelmingly savage to it. And the team itself was not happy with the product and considered it a nearly impossible mess to fix even before launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru
Check out this excellent 3 part documentary about 1.0.
https://youtu.be/Xs0yQKI7Yw4 -
10-25-2020, 11:04 PMStanelis
FFXIV V1.0 had nothing in common with FFXI (like, absolutely nothing at all, aside from monsters models that already were in FFXI, but it is still the case today) and the reason it flopped was because it wasn't a functional product (the game was broken both on a technical standpoint and on a game design one).
Source : me as an old FFXI player who took part in FFXIV 1.0 alpha.. -
10-25-2020, 11:17 PMLolitaBansheeMeruIve seen it i just dont agree with the team or those people _-_Quote:
Originally Posted by ItMe
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10-25-2020, 11:34 PMSaccharinI agree with you mostly, I've never played Ff11, past 30 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
But you need to remember that an MMO now is quite different to an MMO back when Ff11 was made. Dungeons are for grinding, not an experience. Classes have to be very balanced of there's an outpouring or rage, even more than now.
The game mechanics are incredibly crude. The apex of questing now is the dart game!
I think the issue is they went super safe after the failure of 1.0. I dont think the team who did the remake knew how to make an MMORPG. There's so many limitations on servers that should not exist these days.
Adding new stuff would take far too much money and time and they wont invest in it at this stage. That's my opinion anyway. -
10-26-2020, 01:15 AMDrWho2010
dude should just make his own game or play a single player rpg that caters to his tastes. XIV's "game" is never going to be what he wants it to be. so he should just give up now.
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10-26-2020, 01:21 AMHeulGDarian
Honestly all this game needs is a bit more engaging combat system . Stormblood had hit the spot in that aspect. I just hope they fix that in 6.0
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10-26-2020, 01:59 AMPentheaI struggle to believe that they like the game. I have repeatedly seen them essentially say they want FFXIV to be FXI-2. XIV and XI are completely different games. It's like complaining about how FFXV isn't FFX.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMisato
It's one thing to see people criticise the same handful of things over and over again, and it's another thing when a person repeatedly criticises so many aspects of the game that if the changes they wanted were introduced the game would become unrecognisable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMisato
Uhhh...1.0 flopped hugely because it was borderline unplayable for a long time. There were massive server issues and the game itself crashed a lot due to demanding far too much from hardware and for being badly optimised in general. No matter how great a game itself is, if players cannot play it then they're not going to like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru
Furthermore there were quite a lot of issues with the design itself because SE literally ignored player feedback during testing. The ui had too many dialogue boxes to go through to do simple tasks, the combat was clunky, gathering was almost purely rng (because for some reason the devs thought it would be great if players didn't know what they were gathering???) the story wasn't fleshed out at all (which is a crime for a FF game!), navigation was awful due to zone and map design...I could go on for a long time. It's a very long list that is very well documented.
SE wanted to create a successor to XI with 1.0 XIV but it failed miserably because the game was poorly made and was nowhere close to being a finished product. It was a controversial game right from launch, and the reception was so bad that SE was in danger of falling apart as a whole. I know people who adored XI who tried 1.0 XIV and they all agreed it was awful, even if you were lucky enough for the servers to stay online or for the game not to crash. The improvements to 1.0 came after SE removed the original 1.0 staff and replaced them with a different team lead by Yoshida. However the devs and Yoshida saw that the game was so badly made even down to its foundations that the only way to save it was to scrap it, which is why 2.0 was released as a different game, not as an expansion.
Sure a lack of advertising did hurt 1.0 XIV but what hurt it the most was the sheer arrogance of the original team who knowingly released a horribly made unfinished product built upon ignoring player feedback, and they were expecting to ride the prestigious Final Fantasy brand to success. Unsurprisingly this mindset hugely backfired.
Anyway...would you even want to heavily advertise a disaster of a game that put your company at risk of dissolving? No, better to stick to focusing on the die-hard fans who stayed and were willing to provide feedback to lead the game to a better place. That's what SE did, and it was a success. -
10-26-2020, 08:11 AMPayotz
So I was one of the folks who didn't really give a shit about WoW and would constantly tell everyone I know that FFXIV is the best MMO in the market ever since I started back in 4.2.
Recently, I got burned out from 14 and decided to give WoW a try, to know what's on the other side of the fence. What I concluded is that both games can actually learn a lot from each other. I can go on and on about what WoW can improve on, but since I like FFXIV a lot more, I'll just go onto what I think FFXIV can improve a lot on.
Simply put, WoW's environments, dungeons, raids and open world are a lot more immersive, and it does feel like it's an MMO, rather than a linear RPG with lobbies.
WoW's classes have a lot more class identity than FFXIV's jobs
In WoW, there's a lot more job fluff that sells the class fantasy a lot more, despite it not necessarily contributing combat wise. A few examples would be that a Mage can conjure food and water, Death Knights can walk on water and Beastmaster hunters are the only spec/jobs in the game to tame exotic beasts (yes, they can even tame raid bosses). There's even dialogue amongst the NPCs when you're a specific class, like the guards in Stormwind will act hostile if you are a DeathKnight.
In FFXIV, there's really only three I can think of off the top of my head. The most significant one is pretty much BRD Performance, Ninja Movement Speed and Ninja All Fours. I would want FFXIV to sell the job fantasy a lot more, having Astro fortune tell, having Dragoons jump twice as high normally, and maybe even Scholars just interacting with Lily a lot more akin to how MHW hunters interact with their Palicos.
I think this would go a long way to improving the job fantasy of the jobs, even if it doesn't necessarily improve combat. (Though combat does need some improvements imo, but that's another topic).
WoW's monsters/enemies interact with one another, and the environment
WoW's monsters/enemies have unique interactions with one another and the environment. If you fly throughout its world, you might see two massive Goliaths just battling it out with each other at the center of the map. If an Ogre hits another Ogre while fighting you, they might just fight each other instead while talking smack to each other, until one of them dies, and then they come back straight to you. This genuinely makes the world seem alive, and that the mobs are actually organic and not just trash to kill (even if they are trash to just kill).
In FFXIV, the only times where I saw interactions between enemies and the environment are only in FATEs, in the ARR areas (guards vs enemies), and the Tempest where if a specific monster eats another small monster, it gets a damage buff. I would honestly like a lot more interactions like these in the future. Again, not really gamebreaking gameplay wise, but it makes the world seem organic and and alive.
WoW seamlessly loads one zone into the next with no loading screens
I honestly don't really know if this one is limited by consoles, but being able to fly with no loading screens across zones really helps with immersion. It just feels like you're traveling the world rather than traveling lobby to lobby. This might be the most minor thing in the list, but if it is possible, I'd like to see this happen.
There's a lot more I can talk about, like WoW dungeon design vs FFXIV dungeon design, WoW(and honestly, Destiny) raids feeling a lot more like raids than FFXIV 8 man Savage raids, WoW race fluff, and a few more, but I think the improvements on immersion are a lot easier to implement rather than things like changing the standard dungeon formula.
These are really my opinions after spending a bit of time in WoW, and while I do agree that FFXIV does things a lot better than WoW, there's a lot more things that FFXIV can learn from WoW. -
10-26-2020, 05:13 PMlinayar
When people say they want immersion, they seem to request features that are mostly aggravating to me (with the rest being inconsequential). As a Mage main in WoW, I wish I don't have to conjure meal. My class fantasy as a Mage doesn't have to rely on being a meal producer or portal maker and I wish every class can teleport and replenish their own resource. Every time I hear what Hunter and Rogue had to do in terms of their class fantasy in Classic WoW, I always feel glad that I never tried it.
The one exception is the no load screen in between zones, which I do like, but I don't know what WoW has to sacrifice for that ability. FFXIV's zones tend to load more nicely to me on my old PC than WoW's zones and loading screens don't really bother me as I know it's a video game. -
10-26-2020, 05:20 PMKaelahI noticed this one when I first started XIV 2.0. I remember asking in my FC chat if mobs ever link because I was pulling Ixali that were mid conversation with another Ixali and the one I didn't pull didn't seem to give a **** that I was murdering his buddy in front of him, I found it jarring after playing WoW for years where if you pulled something like that they would all swarm you. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Payotz
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10-26-2020, 05:44 PMHalivelIt's honestly weird in FF14, because there are linked mobs (in low level zones mostly), but then you kill a mob talking to another mob, and second one just... continues to speak. Looks like they were wanting to make linked mobs a thing (considering there are some), but then dropped this concept for whatever reason, which is honestly sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaelah
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10-27-2020, 02:48 AMRTX3080
Is this a TitanMen thread
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10-30-2020, 04:39 AMDaniolautIf you feel “memory” is a skill, then we’re just going to have to end this charade.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverObi
I consider memory about as skillful as growing hair on the top of your head.
Some people can grow hair on the top of their heads, some cannot, but I absolutely never would consider it a skill.
Enjoy FFXIV! -
10-30-2020, 04:45 AMDaniolautI actually looked into World of Warcraft as well. When I saw that same old “you are here” every five seconds notification I turned back around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payotz
I have no clue who is in charge of such choices, but making that completely permanent (no toggle to turn it off) and it constantly telling you all the time nonstop is very very odd indeed. It makes it feel like you’re constantly in tutorial mode.
As for the rest you said, I personally feel WoW has more in common with FFXI than it does FFXIV.
FFXIV is far too cookie cutter-safe-copy pasted content to be compared to either game. -
10-30-2020, 07:40 AMLauront
You're not wrong. Following 5.3, I'd add the MSQ to that list.
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10-30-2020, 09:44 AMSilverObiOk so there's no real discussion to be had here. Enjoy your one-man circlejerk my dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
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10-30-2020, 10:33 AMIscahLinked mobs in the overworld seem to be solely based on your strength relative to the thing you're attacking. Fight something of similar level to your own and it's always a single fight. Attack something of a lower level and it will also draw the next closest enemy to the one you attacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaelah
I imagine it's something like that attacking something draws enmity, and a sufficiently strong attack creates more than 100% enmity and that "overflows" to the next nearest enemy. Do it in a really low-level area and you'll draw an entire pack.
Having your chocobo summoned also seems to affect whether you get this overflow effect. -
10-30-2020, 02:06 PMADVSSYou can literally see mobs that are linked together with a faint golden line that blinks slowly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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10-30-2020, 02:14 PMIscahYes you can, and they only get that tethered line in the overworld if you're high-levelled enough that attacking one will draw the other. You don't see it for enemies that are of similar level to your character.Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
It's also not a fixed link between one specific enemy and another, the way it works in dungeons. Instead it goes to the nearest enemy, and it's possible for that link to change to a different target as they wander about and get closer or further away.
Otherwise, as noted above, you can shoot an enemy who is talking to another and his friend will just continue the now-one-sided conversation. If tethers were set permanently, that would be an obvious pair where attacking one should prompt both to attack you, but it doesn't work that way. -
10-30-2020, 02:40 PMADVSSWeird ive always been able to see them. Didnt really think it was attatched to levelQuote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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11-03-2020, 11:01 PMDaniolautYou're kidding me right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
You're claiming to be a musician of any kind, and you're trying to say pop music has depth and complexity.
Any vocalist who is worth their weight in their respective genre has to be trained and experienced. There are cases of raw talent but even then, the more successful artists practice, and have aimed to improve.
Some of the greatest and richest compositions are the furthest from pop music.
Rap and todays pop music are vastly popular and are the most base and senseless drivel. You absolutely cant be trying to tell me singing about the back side of a female with synthetic beats and repetitive tunes, which are comprised of the most popular songs today are complex and rich.
These types of songs and compositions, they entertain the basic senses of the human needs. Food, reproduction, and other similar senses. People with advanced and complex minds are not easily invigorated by such simple and basic concepts. Which is the very foundation of what I speak. Angry Birds was extremely popular because it was simple and easy. Games that entertain more complex concepts and require better development, are much more successful in catering to a more developed mind. Hence the comparison of RPG's to platform games.
This is when I don't care if you have 12 million likes and I have 0, there is absolutely no way you will ever convince me that what you're saying as any validity.
As for RPG's Square-Enix themselves said FFXIV was a Final Fantasy first, and a MMO second. But it fails to compare in depth and originality to the entire series including the very first Final Fantasy. It struggles to compete with the very first entry in the series, which released more than 20 years ago.
Gil is worthless, tomes are worthless, 90% or more of all gear is worthless, materia is either melded or not. They literally removed the chances of someone melding the incorrect materia. This means it takes no thought as to what materia to meld, any materia is going to be a bonus, you cant mess it up.
Everything is aesthetics, mounts, minions, glamour, housing. Wanting things to have purpose and be expanded upon is whats being asked. Choices to have weight, and purpose.
It is very simple and very cookie cutter and very very straight forward.
Most all Final Fantasy games, you build your stats and gear to specific fights, you spend time thinking of the best move, and the best course of action to accomplishing goals. From things like Guardian Forces having EXP boost, gil boost, sell items high, mug, all the typical traits in a Final Fantasy game that enriches gameplay. Because gil is used in other places, sometimes you farm gil, sometimes you farm ability stats, you do one thing and it affects a certain outcome in another aspect of the game. Like my example of FFX. You farm monsters in each zone to create a new monster. You fight said created monster to obtain a specific drop. You take that specific drop to gain ability points. You do all these numerous things finding out new uses and purposes to your stats, gear, and currencies to further your character. FFXIV is just item level. Thats it.
Both World of Warcraft, and Final Fantasy XI are more complex than just item level. FFXI has an expansive gear system, World of Warcraft has both a character build system, it even has gear that has specialty stats, not game breaking or game making, but something is better than "just item level."
Even savage content is just a memory game. Either you know the fight or you dont. 99% of most wipes, outside of people simply not knowing the fights, are a cat jumping onto someones keyboard, someone having to sneeze, "wife aggro" you name it.
Absolutely there is no way I can take this seriously.
As for OP, that is me, wanting the game to improve and expand on the very things they have abandoned such as Achievement points, gear customization, point allotment, gear sets, cross class skills/traits/actions. All the things that made FFXIV, FFXIV. Its not just the story. If they stop everything to focus on just the story, when the story ends so will the game.
Thats someone who cares about FFXIV not someone who hates it.... to be so backwards I dont even know if saying this as clearly as I just did will help set you moving forward again. -
11-03-2020, 11:55 PMDaniolaut
To take it even further, the things I discuss are the facts of life.
These concepts reach the entirety of life for humanity as a whole.
In food/culinary arts.
Its like comparing Reese's Peanut Butter Cups to Peanut Butter Pots de Creme.
Now you're going to tell me Reese's cups are a culinary marvel?
Or comparing a Toyota Prius to a Aston Martin. So now you'll say a Prius is an automotive wonder?
People with specified tastes play RPG's, someone who wants something easy and quick and fun to play, play Angry Birds.
These are the absolute basic fundamentals of humanity.
Again, I repeat, wanting FFXIV to be a Final Fantasy is someone who enjoys Final Fantasy, wanting it to become an action game, or a platform game, is not a fan of the series. -
11-04-2020, 03:58 AMlinayarIf what you say is true, then your thread is pointless because apparently depth does not sell as much, or at least, your definition of depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
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11-04-2020, 07:25 AMGallec
I have to agree with OP. This game is all of what he/she mentioned. They made a neat duty finder online game with classes that you have to spam rotations on with no development to them. Sounds a lot like TBC Wow ;). I mean, I understand what they had to do with vanilla FFIV. I do hope they are working on another FF mmo as this world and lore has a lot to offer for a fun sandbox type game. However, the mmo genre is on its last legs due to games like these trying to cater and give something for everyone instead of making a fun world to play in. Still, the devs have worked hard to keep this game going and I give them mad props!
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11-04-2020, 07:54 AMDarsienWhat sort of moronic gatekeeping is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniolaut
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11-04-2020, 07:22 PMADVSSI second this actually. Can we stop pretending Final Fantasy ever cared about your chosen party's class structure, besides maybe 4 And some broken few fights in other franchises where it was the cheese strategy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darsien