Fighting Desperately...

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Originally Posted by Tibian

As someone stated in previous pages, challenge =/= time sinks, which is all XI really ever was.

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Killing Ifrit 100 times for an axe isn't a time sync?

Hmmm

Maybe it's just me but if all people want is everything given to them w/ no time/work/effort/thought aren't MMO's in general not gonna work out ...

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Maybe it's just me but if all people want is everything given to them w/ no time/work/effort/thought aren't MMO's in general not gonna work out ...

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You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Maybe it's just me but if all people want is everything given to them w/ no time/work/effort/thought aren't MMO's in general not gonna work out ...

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Exactly this sentiment that I believe is going to become a reality that resulted in my OP. Specifically, the first paragraph. Anyone who has any appreciation for anything in life knows that the journey is not just a means to an end. It is the defining characteristic of those ends.

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

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It's sad that folks can't see this, even though it stares them in the face, beating them about the head and shoulders with each new patch. You're being strung along for minimal effort so someone can cash in on your choice of lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Answa

I think you're overreacting.

FFXI didn't really have any difficulty to it. It just took fucking forever to get anything done. Or to wait for an NM to pop so that some other team would claim it. Or to wait 72 hours to be able to go to Dynamis again so that your relic armor doesn't drop. I could go on.

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Exactly Time sink=/= immersion, difficulty or player skill.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Exactly Time sink=/= immersion, difficulty or player skill.

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I'm always surprised that people associate FFXI's model with difficulty, challenge, and skill. When I think of challenges and immersions I don't think of standing in one spot pulling an identical mob over and over. I'm also always surprised that the developers [original XI and original XIV] never seem to understand that story and adventure are major appeals to Final Fantasy games in general; they're certainly not something that begins only after you've maxed out your character level, and certainly not something you progress through only a tiny fraction of the time.

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I'm always surprised that people associate FFXI's model with difficulty, challenge, and skill. When I think of challenges and immersions I don't think of standing in one spot pulling an identical mob over and over. I'm also always surprised that the developers [original XI and original XIV] never seem to understand that story and adventure are major appeals to Final Fantasy games in general; they're certainly not something that begins only after you've maxed out your character level, and certainly not something you progress through only a tiny fraction of the time.

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Killing one enemy repeatedly is not difficult, given you come prepared.

When I say 'prepared', I mean your tank has to do his best to keep hate off the Black Mage, Samurai, and Ranger (difficulty); Your Thief has to be quick with SATA and use status bolts (depth); Your mages have to monitor their output closely so as not to pull hate (difficulty); Your Red Mage should employ every applicable debuff to the mob while also serving as a backup healer and nuker (depth); The experienced Bard should be able to keep the action going without interruption (gameplay).

If you do not have a majority of these qualities in your group, then killing crabs over and over is going to be a long and painful process. Of course, killing the same mob repeatedly is what we do in this game now, so I'm not sure what point you're digging at.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Hello Gemma! Quick question, did you read the first sentence of the OP? Just curious.

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I read the first page because there was alot to read lol. And I wasn't trying to be a bitch in my post I was being serious. I have alot of friends who want to play the game but not enough to hold their attention. So that's all I was getting at is if you are bored with it or want to play 11 then go for it. Cause if you force yourself to play, you're gonna hate the game in the end.

So idk about other people that responded to this but I wasn't getting mad or trying to be like "oh you're dumb for wanting to play that" or whatever. Just sayin, you bored of 14? Take a break.

Sad thing is I just came back from a 2 month break back in February.

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Originally Posted by Galoot

This is for everyone who is saying, if you like FFXI so much why don't you go back. One reason being that Abyssea ruined it, another being...I have faith. Look at FFXI updates and what was missing from the beginning: http://www.eosun.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5009

Nothing wrong with a little nostalgic conversation, and I still don't know why people get so mad when it's brought up. You don't have to read the threads and no one forces anyone to do so. In the end I believe this game will grow and evolve and I will stick with it.

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Sad thing is reading through that list I remember the game from 02 as I imported a copy and found a patch to translate before the EU release in 03.

However let me reassure you it was still a better structured game even with those flaws.

I remember riding through dunes on a chocobo and being pawned by a goblin, at the time not fun and irritating, but now quite funny. :P

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Originally Posted by Xoo

I appreciate this point of view. Yet, I rather think of XI as a widow, and myself as a longing necrophiliac. :D

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...8dwucvPISyp0XA

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Lol! I hate you for adding the visual

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Originally Posted by Platinumstorm

I'm always surprised that people associate FFXI's model with difficulty, challenge, and skill. When I think of challenges and immersions I don't think of standing in one spot pulling an identical mob over and over. I'm also always surprised that the developers [original XI and original XIV] never seem to understand that story and adventure are major appeals to Final Fantasy games in general; they're certainly not something that begins only after you've maxed out your character level, and certainly not something you progress through only a tiny fraction of the time.

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Agree to some of the above

especially the idea of story being an integral part of FFs

Saying that though the gret thing about XI was that because it was a long haul to level jobs you often took breaks to go quest or help a lower level friend or do bits of story quests you could do which consequently made you want to level further to find out more about the story, to then take another break.

Either way XIV its different

Level to max level - Do Story (what little there is has been good)

XI was more interactive

an example of the difference would be like comparing these two pictures

FFXI

http://www.atpm.com/7.03/images/insp...instorming.gif

FFXIV

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...artExample.png

Personally I would prefer ny adventures to be more like a brainstorm than a flow chart.

I hope this makes some obscure sense :P

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

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It's sad but your all too right, I just wish that SE would hold onto what worked for the last 25 years rather than feeding the world more watered down garbage that appeals to 13 year olds w/ no patience.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Exactly this sentiment that I believe is going to become a reality that resulted in my OP. Specifically, the first paragraph. Anyone who has any appreciation for anything in life knows that the journey is not just a means to an end. It is the defining characteristic of those ends.

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Also a very sad truth, the sheer volume of people that never stop to enjoy the ride but complain when it's over.....

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Also a very sad truth, the sheer volume of people that never stop to enjoy the ride but complain when it's over.....

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Fact of the matter is, those who say mid-game play should take a backseat to end-game play are only out there for the thrill of victory over others and apparently care little about the journey and adventure it takes to get there. They make games such as Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for these kind of people. They don't belong in RPG's at all in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Killing one enemy repeatedly is not difficult, given you come prepared.

When I say 'prepared', I mean your tank has to do his best to keep hate off the Black Mage, Samurai, and Ranger (difficulty); Your Thief has to be quick with SATA and use status bolts (depth); Your mages have to monitor their output closely so as not to pull hate (difficulty); Your Red Mage should employ every applicable debuff to the mob while also serving as a backup healer and nuker (depth); The experienced Bard should be able to keep the action going without interruption (gameplay).

If you do not have a majority of these qualities in your group, then killing crabs over and over is going to be a long and painful process. Of course, killing the same mob repeatedly is what we do in this game now, so I'm not sure what point you're digging at.

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Yeah other than repeating the same ~4 leves for grinding now there is 0 variety, the grind style of all games follows that model. Hence the name "grind" aka "work" aka "tedium" this is the price of progress.

OMG someone other than me talked about team strategy, that's awesome, sad really that this game still has none at all, button mash your way to the end. Solo-Combos do not show strategy, just an ability to mash buttons in order ...

Can we get some "team play" back?

Yes I know there's tanks/healers/DDs but they really don't perform as a team so much as a pack of ppl doin their own thing. Someday maybe ...

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Fact of the matter is, those who say mid-game play should take a backseat to end-game play are only out there for the thrill of victory over others and apparently care little about the journey and adventure it takes to get there. They make games such as Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for these kind of people. They don't belong in RPG's at all in the first place.

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Agreed, don't leave out every FPS on the market though.

Just stumbled upon this:
http://thechive.com/2012/03/30/if-su...oday-8-photos/

Thought it was fitting

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

Just stumbled upon this:
http://thechive.com/2012/03/30/if-su...oday-8-photos/

Thought it was fitting

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I'm so glad it wasn't developed in this day and age. The enemies would glow red to tell you they were dangerous; Mushrooms, fireflowers, super stars, etc. would all have glowing arrows bouncing over them; The right side of the screen would have a persistent arrow pointing to the right; You'd get an achievement for every coin you picked up; The GAME OVER screen would be replaced with PAY 1000 Goomba Points to Restart at World 8-3?;

I really dislike what video games are coming to.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Yugon, you have to understand that it doesn't make much sense when you post this:



And then you "totally agree!" with this:



Sort of sending mixed messages there, bud.

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I agreed with the "irony" of "Grats on your THM50! etc.." in the way that playing that way is not like playing (personal opinion). I do not want to go back to FFXI. That game had it's time, and now is XIV time, but that doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to make a post to tell that "they want to go back to FFXI because....", because is the same that "Please, implement "whatever FFXI had" threads.

Hope you understand me better. If not... Sorry! xD

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Originally Posted by YUGON

I agreed with the "irony" of "Grats on your THM50! etc.." in the way that playing that way is not like playing (personal opinion). I do not want to go back to FFXI. That game had it's time, and now is XIV time, but that doesn't mean that EVERYONE has to make a post to tell that "they want to go back to FFXI because....", because is the same that "Please, implement "whatever FFXI had" threads.

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I understand and agree that I don't have any special entitlements in posting this thread, yet, the true point of it was to get people talking. It was meant as a catalyst. Even a TROLL THREAD, if you choose to see it that way. Only in this thread's last 2-3 pages has it emerged from the flame-war and the endless, inevitable debate over the difference between 'time-sink' and 'challenge'. Notice that by my second or third post, I let go of that argument, because that's not the issue I intended this thread to settle.

Yugon.

You are correct XI has had its time and it is now XIVs time

However that does not mean that we have to except XIV as it is or that the direction of MMORPGs is in our/my OPINION going up shit creek without a paddle.

TBH how a culture choses to enjoy themselves (i.e Games Multimedia etc) is historically often a reflection of their societal values. I am ashamed to be living through an era where people think they are "entitled" to almost everything and anything without even lifting one finger or even just being nice.

To sum it up this is probably what it all comes down to

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...14532989_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Xoo

I don't want what FFXIV is now and what is apparently going to grow up to be: Beyond Casual

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I know, right? I mean just yesterday I solo'd moogle and got all the weapons, then I went through Aurum Vale with a friend and I beat Mistress whilst playing Bejewelled.

Seriously, what the HELL are you talking about? So many stupid people throw around the word casual as just a default negative word, and supposedly FFXIV is "beyond casual"?

Planting crops in Farmville is casual.

Knocking some pigs over in Angry Birds is casual.

Spending 6 hours in Aurum Vale, tweaking strategies, co-ordinating party members and ultimately returning again the next day because you didn't get the one drop you were after is not casual.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Killing one enemy repeatedly is not difficult, given you come prepared.

When I say 'prepared', I mean your tank has to do his best to keep hate off the Black Mage, Samurai, and Ranger (difficulty); Your Thief has to be quick with SATA and use status bolts (depth); Your mages have to monitor their output closely so as not to pull hate (difficulty); Your Red Mage should employ every applicable debuff to the mob while also serving as a backup healer and nuker (depth); The experienced Bard should be able to keep the action going without interruption (gameplay).

If you do not have a majority of these qualities in your group, then killing crabs over and over is going to be a long and painful process. Of course, killing the same mob repeatedly is what we do in this game now, so I'm not sure what point you're digging at.

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Thank you! Someone else finally talking about game mechanics and fighting strategies. Although you fight the same mob, you can always do it faster and better. And when my PT was rolling, I was loving it. In every game we kill the same things over and over, name a game and it happens. What made FFXI's battle system so great was that if someone was weak or didn't know how to do their part, that PT felt it. If everyone knows what they're doing and SCs are flying and MBs are going off it was great. But enter TP PTs, Abyssea, and now FFXIV and it's a spam fest with no regard to any strategy because none is needed...thus the fun of the fight and leveling is lost and with it the journey lessens.

Why do people feel the need to whine and moan about how much they don't like the game on the forums? Just drop the game get another and get over it. Honestly... it's like all your trying to do is be a downer and bring down everyone who actually LIKES the game...

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Originally Posted by Galoot

Thank you! Someone else finally talking about game mechanics and fighting strategies. Although you fight the same mob, you can always do it faster and better. And when my PT was rolling, I was loving it. In every game we kill the same things over and over, name a game and it happens. What made FFXI's battle system so great was that if someone was weak or didn't know how to do their part, that PT felt it. If everyone knows what they're doing and SCs are flying and MBs are going off it was great. But enter TP PTs, Abyssea, and now FFXIV and it's a spam fest with no regard to any strategy because none is needed...thus the fun of the fight and leveling is lost and with it the journey lessens.

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First of all, I will first say that in certain places XI did have some strategy to it - Kirin in particular springs to mind, but honestly, all those strategies boiled down to was "hit your macro with the right timing and pay attention to not suck." Fights like the past King Anthro were great ideas but as you say, the game is now simply "zerg it with temps until one of you dies."

The thing is though, XIV has this "deep" system too - if one of your party members doesn't know the core mechanics to Ifrit, damn right you're going to feel that as well. I've found a lot of the fights in XIV far more engaging and far more strategic than XI - Ifrit is all about timing and reflexes (and yeah, I know people get pissy about lag on cracks). Moogles starts with a planned zerg strategy then switches to an endurance fight. Batraal requires the party to co-ordinate and split up. The job system might be entirely diverse yet but it's still in it's infancy.

Also, people keep mentioning "it's all about the journey." Everyone's journey is unique and everyone has the right to go about that journey however they please. If someone wants to solo grind all the way to 50 or have their level 50 friend PL them up to spend time together, then that's up to the individual. Whether that journey takes months or years, it shouldn't even matter.

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

EDIT:: I also approve of my new Yoshi-P avatar. Nice April Fools guys, loool

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Originally Posted by Crysten

First of all, I will first say that in certain places XI did have some strategy to it - Kirin in particular springs to mind, but honestly, all those strategies boiled down to was "hit your macro with the right timing and pay attention to not suck." Fights like the past King Anthro were great ideas but as you say, the game is now simply "zerg it with temps until one of you dies."

The thing is though, XIV has this "deep" system too - if one of your party members doesn't know the core mechanics to Ifrit, damn right you're going to feel that as well. I've found a lot of the fights in XIV far more engaging and far more strategic than XI - Ifrit is all about timing and reflexes (and yeah, I know people get pissy about lag on cracks). Moogles starts with a planned zerg strategy then switches to an endurance fight. Batraal requires the party to co-ordinate and split up. The job system might be entirely diverse yet but it's still in it's infancy.

Also, people keep mentioning "it's all about the journey." Everyone's journey is unique and everyone has the right to go about that journey however they please. If someone wants to solo grind all the way to 50 or have their level 50 friend PL them up to spend time together, then that's up to the individual. Whether that journey takes months or years, it shouldn't even matter.

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

EDIT:: I also approve of my new Yoshi-P avatar. Nice April Fools guys, loool

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I was speaking more in terms of EXP PTs and the way it made leveling feel more exciting and fun. In FFXIV I don't care that it is fast or anything like that, but I don't think it's engaging or fun in my opinion of course. Not sure where you got the idea that I want everyone to play a certain way...Your point about anyone can play how they want, I certainly agree with that as my gaming changes day to day with RL in the mix, sometimes just wanting to hop on for a half hour or so. Also, you're a fellow Gungir and Gridanian, look forward to crossing paths.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

I know, right? I mean just yesterday I solo'd moogle and got all the weapons, then I went through Aurum Vale with a friend and I beat Mistress whilst playing Bejewelled.

Seriously, what the HELL are you talking about? So many stupid people throw around the word casual as just a default negative word, and supposedly FFXIV is "beyond casual"?

Planting crops in Farmville is casual.

Knocking some pigs over in Angry Birds is casual.

Spending 6 hours in Aurum Vale, tweaking strategies, co-ordinating party members and ultimately returning again the next day because you didn't get the one drop you were after is not casual.

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I think what you really mean is you discovered a strategy (be it self-formulated or video reference), and on your 10,000th successful run, finally got all the weapons, the one weapon you really wanted, your first weapon, or none at all! I'll agree these instanced battles do require strategy and competence to win, but once you've nailed that, the only challenge that remains is the 15min CD and abysmal drop rate. How can you say that spamming CC/AV 30-35x per day is difficult or fun?

And as Galoot pointed out, what I AM talking about is more the game value from Lv1-50. There is content for Lv50 that is growing as time passes, but for those of us who enjoy playing through this period with other people in an MMORPG - we feel a bit short-changed.

This point of view has less to do with preference of play-style and more with the mass who choose and have chosen to abuse Powerleveling to the point where the remainder are 'forced' to convert and given little choice to stand in one spot while someone else progresses their character for them.

Why do so many ppl have Yoshi P's Avatar, that's lame....including myself.....

just sayin.

Anyhow yeah go play ffxi with some freinds who play like you all want to, have a great time, sounds like fun.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

Just because you don't like the way some people play the game, doesn't mean it's the way that EVERYONE should play the game. It's their journey, and they can take whatever path they Goddam please.

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You really think so? Perhaps you weren't the person with multiple Linkshells, 165 people on their Friend List, a working knowledge of the party search function, no reservations about shouting for an hour on the streets of Ul'dah for some party members to go out and grind with. For 3 days I did this, all in vain, and for the simple fact that everyone, I kid you not, everyone that could have otherwise went with me was either in Mun-Tuy or Nanawa, sitting AFK/asleep while a Lv50 THM or CON played their game for them.

So you tell me where the choice is in that?

Go do some solo stuff, craft, call your Rl frinds that play, set up a scheduled time to do your static parties......

lots of things to be done about it. Work on achievements I can see you like to do that... :)

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Originally Posted by Xoo

And as Galoot pointed out, what I AM talking about is more the game value from Lv1-50. There is content for Lv50 that is growing as time passes, but for those of us who enjoy playing through this period with other people in an MMORPG - we feel a bit short-changed.

This point of view has less to do with preference of play-style and more with the mass who choose and have chosen to abuse Powerleveling to the point where the remainder are 'forced' to convert and given little choice to stand in one spot while someone else progresses their character for them.

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So this boils down to "baaw PLing?"

You do realize you don't HAVE to PL and are perfectly capable to soloing or partying to 50, right? Ive seen dozens of shouts for exp parties since the merge, y'know. If people wish to PL to 50, who are you to say they can't/shouldn't?

I played with my girlfriend's character from 1-50 on my 50 job, and we were just happy to play together.

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Not sure where you got the idea that I want everyone to play a certain way...Your point about anyone can play how they want, I certainly agree with that as my gaming changes day to day with RL in the mix, sometimes just wanting to hop on for a half hour or so. Also, you're a fellow Gungir and Gridanian, look forward to crossing paths.

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Was more directed to the OP on that point rather than yourself, there. :) Hope to cross paths too!

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Originally Posted by Crysten

So this boils down to "baaw PLing?"

You do realize you don't HAVE to PL and are perfectly capable to soloing or partying to 50, right? Ive seen dozens of shouts for exp parties since the merge, y'know. If people wish to PL to 50, who are you to say they can't/shouldn't?

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No, it boils down to this. Please read carefully:

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Originally Posted by ArnoMorley

You can tell people this all day but they're not going to stop until they cause MMOs to go out of existence. I've seen it in other types of media, things are made to keep you on the hook and take a while, then something comes along that makes that experience instantly gratifying. Then everybody tries to copy, quality of the whole genre goes down and everybody gets sick of it then BAM the whole genre is dead.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

You really think so? Perhaps you weren't the person with multiple Linkshells, 165 people on their Friend List, a working knowledge of the party search function, no reservations about shouting for an hour on the streets of Ul'dah for some party members to go out and grind with. For 3 days I did this, all in vain, and for the simple fact that everyone, I kid you not, everyone that could have otherwise went with me was either in Mun-Tuy or Nanawa, sitting AFK/asleep while a Lv50 THM or CON played their game for them.

So you tell me where the choice is in that?

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Fact of the matter is, those who say mid-game play should take a backseat to end-game play are only out there for the thrill of victory over others and apparently care little about the journey and adventure it takes to get there. They make games such as Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter for these kind of people. They don't belong in RPG's at all in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Exactly this sentiment that I believe is going to become a reality that resulted in my OP. Specifically, the first paragraph. Anyone who has any appreciation for anything in life knows that the journey is not just a means to an end. It is the defining characteristic of those ends.

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Article borrowed from the following link which pretty much says what this thread intends to convey:LINK

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Why am I being such a Debbie Downer?

Why? Because I love video games, that’s why, and over the last couple of years I’ve become increasingly upset with the direction that the industry is taking. These days, I find myself dreading that my favorite hobby will sink so far into douchebaggery and corporate bullsh*t that it will cease producing the kind of games that I like altogether.

Now, I’m not a complete moron. I know that the ’80s and ’90s weren’t some magical time where corporate greed and unscrupulous marketing didn’t exist, and we all lived in a utopia where everyone involved in video game development actually CARED about the consumer and the artistic merit of their medium…

…but it was better than this, goddamnit.

Soaring game budgets, DLC, “casual gaming”, cover systems, yearly installments, mergers, GameStop, Activision, motion controls, Tetsuya Nomura, “next-gen” graphics, Kotaku, “special editions”…

…it’s all just a swirling vortex of BULLSH*T being sucked down the drain, leaving behind all traces of artistry, originality, innocence and simplicity.

It’s not just nostalgia. I honestly have a more difficult time finding games I like these days, and that’s a problem I NEVER had until this console generation. I can’t open a gaming news site without being instantly depressed by some executive’s marketing jargon or some developer’s explanation for why his five hour, bloom-lit, brown-paletted game about a bald space marine is a f*****g revolutionary masterpiece.

So now you get to hear about it, if you want. I know you probably don’t agree with me. If the things I say offend you, or you think I’m an idiot, you don’t have to read any more than you want to…

…but if you share my pain, and if you’ve had enough, feel free to take some time and join me in a hearty “F**K YOU” to the rejects ruining our fun.

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Why? Because I love video games, that’s why, and over the last couple of years I’ve become increasingly upset with the direction that the industry is taking. These days, I find myself dreading that my favorite hobby will sink so far into douchebaggery and corporate bullshit that it will cease producing the kind of games that I like altogether.

Now, I’m not a complete moron. I know that the ’80s and ’90s weren’t some magical time where corporate greed and unscrupulous marketing didn’t exist, and we all lived in a utopia where everyone involved in video game development actually CARED about the consumer and the artistic merit of their medium…

…but it was better than this, goddamnit.

Soaring game budgets, DLC, “casual gaming”, cover systems, yearly installments, mergers, GameStop, Activision, motion controls, Tetsuya Nomura, “next-gen” graphics, Kotaku, “special editions”…

…it’s all just a swirling vortex of BULLSHIT being sucked down the drain, leaving behind all traces of artistry, originality, innocence and simplicity.

It’s not just nostalgia. I honestly have a more difficult time finding games I like these days, and that’s a problem I NEVER had until this console generation. I can’t open a gaming news site without being instantly depressed by some executive’s marketing jargon or some developer’s explanation for why his five hour, bloom-lit, brown-paletted game about a bald space marine is a fucking revolutionary masterpiece.

So now you get to hear about it, if you want. I know you probably don’t agree with me. If the things I say offend you, or you think I’m an idiot, you don’t have to read any more than you want to…

…but if you share my pain, and if you’ve had enough, feel free to take some time and join me in a hearty “FUCK YOU” to the rejects ruining our fun.

Thanks.

amen, /thread

I still say just make the best with what you have lol. Can't say I disagree, but honestly I think fun can be had anywhere, and it is a player's responsibility to take a world they like and make it "fun". I've played a loooot of technically crappy mmorpgs, most of them free ones. I've played a lot of supposedly crappy console rpgs too (FFVIII/FFIX, which I still say are the best in the series). What I've learned is that the game is only a vehicle, and the fun comes from what you do to enjoy it. Of course, every person needs a vehicle they like to be in and look at. The world, races, combat system, other features...the look and feel of the game are all generally very important in terms of "hooking" players.

What many players don't realize is that it is up to them after that. If I'm in a world I like, in this case Eorzea, I'll do whatever I can to make it fun and enjoy it. Course if you can't enjoy the game the way you want to, due to community or whatever, then obviously its a problem. Unfortunately, you're paying for a game you knew would be effectively dead until its mainstream 2.0 release...so I'm having a hard time understanding why you tried so hard. You would have been better off waiting until 2.0, from the sounds of things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I still say just make the best with what you have lol. Can't say I disagree, but honestly I think fun can be had anywhere, and it is a player's responsibility to take a world they like and make it "fun". I've played a loooot of technically crappy mmorpgs, most of them free ones. I've played a lot of supposedly crappy console rpgs too (FFVIII/FFIX, which I still say are the best in the series). What I've learned is that the game is only a vehicle, and the fun comes from what you do to enjoy it. Of course, every person needs a vehicle they like to be in and look at. The world, races, combat system, other features...the look and feel of the game are all generally very important in terms of "hooking" players.

What many players don't realize is that it is up to them after that. If I'm in a world I like, in this case Eorzea, I'll do whatever I can to make it fun and enjoy it. Course if you can't enjoy the game the way you want to, due to community or whatever, then obviously its a problem. Unfortunately, you're paying for a game you knew would be effectively dead until its mainstream 2.0 release...so I'm having a hard time understanding why you tried so hard. You would have been better off waiting until 2.0, from the sounds of things.

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I have my reasons for hanging on for as long as I have, but surely enough those have worn to a near-invisible thread. I'm sure you can understand why, no matter how much you've grown to dislike something, the sheer time and effort you've vested in it keeps you holding on. Like I said in the OP, and to the extreme disbelief of some, I think I enjoyed the game more as it was in late 2010 - sans general latency issues.

For me, this game doesn't grow on me as it should, it just sheds away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xoo

I have my reasons for hanging on for as long as I have, but surely enough those have worn to a near-invisible thread. I'm sure you can understand why, no matter how much you've grown to dislike something, the sheer time and effort you've vested in it keeps you holding on. Like I said in the OP, and to the extreme disbelief of some, I think I enjoyed the game more as it was in late 2010 - sans general latency issues.

For me, this game doesn't grow on me as it should, it just sheds away.

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Well hmm...best I can say is to cut yourself off and wait until the new game is released. Then try and see if its a brand new experience for you. Good news is this game will be killed off in due time, once they finish the new one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThePatriarch

Why? Because I love video games, that’s why, and over the last couple of years I’ve become increasingly upset with the direction that the industry is taking. These days, I find myself dreading that my favorite hobby will sink so far into douchebaggery and corporate bullshit that it will cease producing the kind of games that I like altogether.

Now, I’m not a complete moron. I know that the ’80s and ’90s weren’t some magical time where corporate greed and unscrupulous marketing didn’t exist, and we all lived in a utopia where everyone involved in video game development actually CARED about the consumer and the artistic merit of their medium…

…but it was better than this, goddamnit.

Soaring game budgets, DLC, “casual gaming”, cover systems, yearly installments, mergers, GameStop, Activision, motion controls, Tetsuya Nomura, “next-gen” graphics, Kotaku, “special editions”…

…it’s all just a swirling vortex of BULLSHIT being sucked down the drain, leaving behind all traces of artistry, originality, innocence and simplicity.

It’s not just nostalgia. I honestly have a more difficult time finding games I like these days, and that’s a problem I NEVER had until this console generation. I can’t open a gaming news site without being instantly depressed by some executive’s marketing jargon or some developer’s explanation for why his five hour, bloom-lit, brown-paletted game about a bald space marine is a fucking revolutionary masterpiece.

So now you get to hear about it, if you want. I know you probably don’t agree with me. If the things I say offend you, or you think I’m an idiot, you don’t have to read any more than you want to…

…but if you share my pain, and if you’ve had enough, feel free to take some time and join me in a hearty “FUCK YOU” to the rejects ruining our fun.

Thanks.

amen, /thread

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It's not over yet either, next gen they're blocking used games and scrapping backwards compatibility entirely.