Well, they actually did it, the absolute madmen

I would not call it elitist, selfish yes. there are elitist comments but most are more about getting the most out of your time. if someone doesn't play the class overly well dungeons take longer or wipes happen. Its a matter of if you feel like your wasting your time. that varies person to person.

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Originally Posted by Pehrah

I would not call it elitist, selfish yes. there are elitist comments but most are more about getting the most out of your time. if someone doesn't play the class overly well dungeons take longer or wipes happen. Its a matter of if you feel like your wasting your time. that varies person to person.

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Bad players exist in dungeons right now. Clearly they didn't need an easy mode option on single-player instances in order to "bad" up the DF queues. Hell we have a never-ending thread on the matter on these very forums and have for years.

So since there's no danger of difficulty options in single-player gameplay CREATING bad players. I don't personally care if someone wants to use them to help them through difficult MSQ fights. Enjoy the story, that's what it's there for.

People actually complaining about it are trolls honestly. the point of my post was to say that just because someone was complaining about bad players doesn't instantly make them elitist.

Square Enix should empower players to get better rather than enable their incompetence. Bad move but I am not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

I love how we as gamers seem to regress from the early days of Super Mario to today. Its hilarious.
I dont personally care how hard single player content is, but they also keep making dungeons and other multiplayer content easier and easier every patch. No good game design goes BACKWARDS in difficulty from beginning to end. FFXIV keeps doing this. With this new patch, there is ONE single fight for people who dont want faceroll content. ONE. Thats the absolute bare minimum of what you can do to cater to people who LIKE to press 1,2 and 3 in the right order. Everything else is purely catering to supercasuals, popotos and people who play tapper games on mobile phones as the peak of their ability. Its a disappointment.

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What a dramatic post full of lies and insults. This game getting easier you say? Let's see.

1.Most of Jobs and classes getting more and more complex each expac. Do you remember 2.0 SMN? PLD? DRG? How simple were their rotations and how devs added more and more complexity to them over the years, have you forgotten that?

2.Raid tiers? Remember how each tier of cob were increasingly more difficult? Addition of savage? Remember further progression of alex? Heck, they even started adding ultimate raids since 4.1. Have you forgotten that?

Also, did you read any interview with Yoshi-P? If so, then you should be aware of fact that this is theme park mmo, giving a bit of everything for everyone. And the fact they are providing us with content we are getting, means there's demand for it. And your post, insulting everyone who enjoys easier activities in this game, is just disgusting and disappointing. As if there can be absolutely no compromise. And your attitude is simply an exact definition of Toxic.

Thought about doing a long post about this, but nah. I really can't believe how useful this quote is in general.

Still saying it; What many want are hard set bars that block others from that content. You wish to be the guardians that control how others play the game. You'll dissemble all your motivations to reach a satisfactory self delusion, but the truth still remains.

Get over yourselves.

Oh ffs people, the game already lets you do this when you die enough times. This is just making it so you can choose that easiest option the first time you fail. And it means you don't have to click off Echo on successive tries if you don't want it. So it's giving options to both types of players. It's not going to change the skill level because YOU CAN ALREADY DO THIS.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Its called having an opinion, not being an elitist. Besides, all we're trying to do is help point out the negative consequences adding a sudden easy mode into certain content can have on this video game overall.

FF14 is casual enough as it is, but randomly adding easy mode to content which only has so much of a challenge to it as it is just helps further lower the bar for the average player's level of gameplay.

Tutorials, hints and etc would be a better option than a sudden easy and easier mode just to get past content you personally don't like.

Like I said, none of us are trying to attack anybody, we just want to state our opinions and help the game become better. Because adding random "quick win" scenarios in a game just defeats the purpose of playing a game in the first place.

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In order for there to be things like tutorials etc, the beginning game needs to be rewritten better. No pop up windows that are closed without being looked at. No Smith that is "optional". Total forced to go through it.

But that means nothing. Players will still ignore it, skip through it, not pay attention and just do it to get through it. Unless there is a quiz afterwards that if you fail your character gets deleted.

As for the "it will bleed into the rest fo the game" eh. Like I stated somewhere else ... MMOs are ever in changing because THEY are more focused on the almighty dollar. It might annoy some of their players, but if they make it so they get 100 new subs, oh well. Adapt and change, or stay in the past I guess.

Besides, players were (and still are) terrible in so many ways, and this patch hasn't even been put out yet.

There were a couple duties in Stormblood that were rather tight on DPS races if you're a tank or a healer.

I remember having to try that one involving Y'shtola (I think that was the one?) twice because I fell just shy on the DPS race as a barely-geared WHM at the time.

Some of those solo duties are long and take freaking forever to clear, and I imagine that someone who is getting frustrated with having to replay the entirety of a 10 minute solo duty just to get back to that last DPS race at the very end. So, I could see this option as being a "I already saw this, and I got to 3% left on the thing I just wanna get through this without taking 10 minutes to replay that whole thing all over again!" type button.

Also, people doing alts might want the button because they've already seen these duties and aren't really interested in a challenge, they just wanna mow it down.

Arguably, though, I would instead think that an unsync'd option would be better.

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Originally Posted by fumofu

What a dramatic post full of lies and insults. This game getting easier you say? Let's see.

1.Most of Jobs and classes getting more and more complex each expac. Do you remember 2.0 SMN? PLD? DRG? How simple were their rotations and how devs added more and more complexity to them over the years, have you forgotten that?

2.Raid tiers? Remember how each tier of cob were increasingly more difficult? Addition of savage? Remember further progression of alex? Heck, they even started adding ultimate raids since 4.1. Have you forgotten that?

Also, did you read any interview with Yoshi-P? If so, then you should be aware of fact that this is theme park mmo, giving a bit of everything for everyone. And the fact they are providing us with content we are getting, means there's demand for it. And your post, insulting everyone who enjoys easier activities in this game, is just disgusting and disappointing. As if there can be absolutely no compromise. And your attitude is simply an exact definition of Toxic.

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yes rotations are more complex in shadowbringers than in realm reborn but heavensward and stormblood were harder, game also used to have more positionals,tp,accuracy,enmity and more dangerous normal enemies.

I know of a pld who weren\\'t able to clear the Sadu instance. He randomly pressed some buttons of his combo instead of using the combo itself. He didn\\'t understand the gcd at all. After getting help from other players he learned how fighting in this game works and managed to beat Sadu. With this very easy mode he probably would have beaten her by rolling his face across the keyboard.

I recently did a normal raid roulette and got O6 (the one with the paintings). After a while I noticed that the ninja almost exclusively used throwing dagger, a few fuma shuriken and some uncomboed combo attacks, nothing else. My bf recorded that fight on ps4 afterwards to see if I was right and yes, he never once used a combo. (And no, I didn\\'t explain how it works to him, I\\'m not good enough at explaining)

I honestly have no idea how those even got as far as they did. But the game obviously is easy enough that they did. Why do we need to make it even easier? I\\'m casual myself as I can\\'t do this tier\\'s savage and extreme modes because of health issues (and nausea in the first eden battle), so it\\'s not that I want everyone to be perfect players.

But instead of catering to the ones that don\\'t even try at all, they rather punish everyone that does by letting really bad players join dungeons with randoms.
They could instead make the hall of the novice better, explaining how combos and buffs work and so on, so that bad players can become better players. Or make it so that if you choose the very easy mode you can only do df content with npcs or so.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

its the MSQ and has never stopped anyone before. what?

sure, you can argue that MSQ should be difficult. and gated. and only those with a thin bubble of superiority can truly appreciate and reap the rewards of their valiant efforts....



....but no- the MSQ really has NOT been challenging. so this addition is.... confusing, and wholly unnecessary. because franly.... the MSQ was never hard enough to block people to begin with. im sure most of us collectively would struggle to think of more than 10-15 solo instances with any higher than base challenge that the other required dungeons didnt already recycle 15 times. but we have it, so it's... whatever. big deal.



honestly, the most depressing thing about all this is... this just screams of gatekeeping. for a gate that doesnt exist. so you had to build one. and now that you did, you can point to it as an excuse to be passive aggressive, and otherwise torment people. As this community does. It's always something. Balmung vs Greg, Jump potions, WoW refugees, Crystal, and now this. I wonder how long before we get another new addition. We truly have had this conversation and the same points have been said by the same people several times now.

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If its SO EASY, why would you care if anyone get it even easier?
Its not like this stuff actually teach anyone of anything, am i right? They could even implement skipping the story missions it would not make any difference.

They go through the easy content, they fail and they choose to make it super easy, what does that make any difference?
Bigger problem are jump potion, just yesterday i had a sprout who did not even know that he should dodge the AOEs, just standing there and casting literal two spells.

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Originally Posted by Gula

That's basically roleplay duties. Your only job is to click click click and not stand in AOEs. Which is too much for some people still.

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My problem wasn't taking damage, it was doing it. All my non-echo tries ended with the boss at around 20-50% health when the timer ran out.

You know, a lot of people seem to forget that more skilled players who actually use DF have been left out to dry by SE for quite some time now.

Content has been steadily weakened in order to accommodate people who aren't as skilled, which is why we see people asking for challenging 4-person content - something that used to exist in ARR, but not anymore. PotD and HoH have been introduced to speed people through leveling without a care in the world for mechanics, if they don't use a Jump potion which is even easier. SE finally is throwing this group a bone with iLevel requirements for Leveling dungeons, but then they're taking a bone away with this MSQ difficulty feature that removes one of the few, weak barriers left to people jumping into the DF without the necessary skills to succeed.

And, worst of all, not once through the years do I recall SE even acknowledging the issue as a problem they're looking at solving. That's the piece that is missing. Nobody criticizing this change is looking to marginalize people with disabilities or children, or even casual gamers who don't particularly care that much. They're just pointing out that as the skill checks have gone by the wayside, the Duty Finder has gotten worse, which negatively impacts the game for them. And SE has, to this point, completely ignored their concerns.

Strengthen the Halls of the Novice. Introduce new tiers to it. Force people to go through it before they can access DF - even if they use a Jump potion. Open up easy mode for MSQ - but then keep DF locked until someone has shown they can succeed on Normal difficulty, or have cleared a current-tier dungeon with their Trusts, something like that. SE can be accommodating to players who aren't at the cutting edge, while also keeping at least half an eye out for people who want to jump into a Roulette without worrying about getting a healer who has no idea what they're doing.

That's all people are asking for. Is that so unreasonable, to ask that their needs be considered, too?

Just out of curiosity, how many of those of you that are against this change also cheese your ilvls to exclusively get Crystal Tower raids in Alliance Raid Roulette? How can you argue that SE is making things too easy when you yourself avoid "hard" content? You think you are somehow different from someone that wants to do a MSQ duty on easy mode, but you're basically running Alliance Raid on easy mode every day.

I don't see what the big deal is? It's solo content. Has nothing at all to do with duty finder and group content and no real bearing on how well you perform in a party. My party tactics are often completely different from my solo tactics as I can't rely on healers or tanks as a dps.

I'm not an awful player, I read my tooltips and know my rotation, but I've still gotten my butt kicked repeatedly on some of those solo instances. Wasn't fast enough, didn't have the strategy timed exactly right, was too squishy despite being in lvl appropriate gear, etc. With this option, if I've gotten my butt kicked enough that I'm getting echo anyway, it's time to dial it back a notch so I can do something other than yell and scream curses at the game as I sit through cuts and dialogue for the 12th time.

It's a thing that's happened to more than one of my friends too. I've got a friend who spent literally weeks stuck in one of the stormblood solo instances because the AI was too stupid to heal her and she's a very squishy BLM. This was after re-reading her tooltips, refining her rotation, and upgrading her gear to the best she could get at the time. So yeah, I think it's a great feature and am delighted to see it.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

Just out of curiosity, how many of those of you that are against this change also cheese your ilvls to exclusively get Crystal Tower raids in Alliance Raid Roulette? How can you argue that SE is making things too easy when you yourself avoid "hard" content? You think you are somehow different from someone that wants to do a MSQ duty on easy mode, but you're basically running Alliance Raid on easy mode every day.

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What makes you think the people against this change and the people that drop their ilvl for easy alliance roulette are the same people?

I'm fine with this change but this line of reasoning always baffles me. When people say 'The same people that want X also hypocritically like Y' as if the playerbase is some sort of monolith with one set of opinions. Or that everyone that shares one oppinion probably shares another.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Its function, without explicit player control, has been in the game for ages now. If there was going to be a disastrous effect as a result, it would have already happened.

Though to be honest, I'm surprised that someone who in another thread bragged about being able to intuit "99%" of trial mechanics on the first try, and talked about having the expectation that players come to the game with a basic level of brain function, is apparently not aware about how the game currently works.

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Do you even try to pug non-faceroll content through PF? It takes a long, long time before you find a competent group of 8 to do content that isn't all that hard in the first place. So, it's bad already, and more nudges in the less-than-ideal direction could very well lead to a near unusable PF, which certainly qualifies as disastrous.

I do know how the game works, thank you very much. None of what I said in either thread contradicts each other. When you view both my positions, you see a rather ... poor view of player skill in this game, and when you pug enough non-faceroll content, you will see that it is entirely justified. So, to be clear, yes, players with a basic level of brain function should be able to intuit 99% of mechanics and execute them flawlessly, but because that doesn't happen, it just goes to show you how bad XIV players really are.

Eh, I do my Roulettes every day and 80% of everybody I run into are passable.

I will admit I've not done Alliance Roulette but eh. *shrug* The 567, Leveling, and Trials seem to be just fine.

Occasionally you will run into an idiot that can't play whatsoever, but I find that's few and far between, I would say 1 in 15-20 runs, if that. Usually what I find happens is that people are simply undergeared rather than not able to play their jobs.

Allowing someone to breeze through MSQ Solo Duties is in no way going to affect the quality of PUGs or Duty Finder, because quite simply, if I did the MSQ Solo Duties as, say, WHM and then I Q up as, say, BLM (I will admit I am terrible at playing BLM), then I'm still going to suck. The solo duties and their difficulty (or lack thereof) would have had no bearing whatsoever on that.

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So, to be clear, yes, players with a basic level of brain function should be able to intuit 99% of mechanics and execute them flawlessly, but because that doesn't happen, it just goes to show you how bad XIV players really are.

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Gotta love the tone in this. "If you screw up at mechanics then you're entirely terrible and your brain doesn't work right".

Let's just ignore the fact that there's a variety of reasons why someone might mess up a mechanic... they were distracted, they were tired, they were sleep deprived, they were intoxicated, or maybe they haven't done that particular boss in 3 years and forgot the mechanics. Or they tried and the game decided that Titan threw them off the ledge when they were 15+ feet out of the AoE marker when the ability finished casting but the game claims they got hit anyways (which I have seen happen).

None of these point to a "terrible" player. Sometimes things happen and people mess up. Sometimes bosses are somewhat obtuse about what you're supposed to do, that have weird mechanics the game does not explain whatsoever that you were somehow supposed to just know. Like, for example, the Yeti in Snowcloak. Nowhere does the game demonstrate you can freeze the little black guys and use the snowball to stop the overpowered AoE from being cast. The game doesn't even tell you that you CAN freeze the little guys, nor does it give you a warning that this will be necessary to stop an incoming AoE that comes without warning. The only way you'd know that was if somebody told you (or stumbling upon it by dumb luck, because sometimes it is hard to hit the little guys with the freeze AoE when you're trying).

Later bosses get a bit better at demonstrating their special mechanics ahead of time (like the first boss of Akadaemia Anyder), but some of those earlier bosses didn't.

Wow. This is still going. People who are arguing about this affecting overall skill levels: you are not the stewards of good gameplay. The game's job is not to teach people how to play it but to be playable. Period. If you're so concerned about player aptitude then find someone who sucks and mentore them. Or give advice. Instead of vote kicking and rage quitting and snarling over solo content tiers. So many of you are scared of the game being 'easier' because of the overall badness of the player base but have no interest in actually putting work in to change that. Instead you expect the game to do it--which it is. By lowering the bar.

See how that works?

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Originally Posted by Ursa_Vonfiebryd

Wow. This is still going. People who are arguing about this affecting overall skill levels: you are not the stewards of good gameplay. The game's job is not to teach people how to play it but to be playable. Period. If you're so concerned about player aptitude then find someone who sucks and mentore them. Or give advice. Instead of vote kicking and rage quitting and snarling over solo content tiers. So many of you are scared of the game being 'easier' because of the overall badness of the player base but have no interest in actually putting work in to change that. Instead you expect the game to do it--which it is. By lowering the bar.

See how that works?

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Advice is only helpful when people want to take it. The game shouldn't have to lower the bar because it does a fairly good job of teaching people IF THEY WANT to learn/take it in. It's 2k19 and people are still running away from stack markers, eating aoes, not aoeing (even at level 80 lmao) during big pulls, people being freeze mages, tanks using cd's when they're ABOUT TO DIE instead of before, healers using aoe healing when the tank is about to eat a TB. Interesting how it works right?

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Originally Posted by Alynn

Advice is only helpful when people want to take it. The game shouldn't have to lower the bar because it does a fairly good job of teaching people IF THEY WANT to learn/take it in. It's 2k19 and people are still running away from stack markers, eating aoes, not aoeing (even at level 80 lmao) during big pulls, people being freeze mages, tanks using cd's when they're ABOUT TO DIE instead of before, healers using aoe healing when the tank is about to eat a TB. Interesting how it works right?

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To be fair, a lot of these things result from what the playerbase wants, rather than what the game was designed for.

It was the playerbase who deemed it was "better" to pull humongous groups, and to AoE everything down because it is "faster". But yet was this actually SE's intention? Not really, I mean, look at the Trusts. They don't AoE either. To be honest, I think they added the ability to multi-pull in dungeons as a sort of "You can if you want to" but the playerbase turned it into a requirement because everybody is in such a fricken hurry all the time, to the point that if you get a non-synch'd tank and healer who decide to pull single groups, you'll get DPS who grumble and even occasionally drop group just because the tank and healer aren't geared well enough to handle multipulling.

Like it or not, the game was designed to be accessible and laid-back at its core. There's savage raiding and extreme/ultimate modes, but the hardcores begged for this kind of content, I don't think this was something that Yoshi-P was really wanting to do with the game IMO.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

To be fair, a lot of these things result from what the playerbase wants, rather than what the game was designed for.

It was the playerbase who deemed it was "better" to pull humongous groups, and to AoE everything down because it is "faster". But yet was this actually SE's intention? Not really, I mean, look at the Trusts. They don't AoE either. To be honest, I think they added the ability to multi-pull in dungeons as a sort of "You can if you want to" but the playerbase turned it into a requirement because everybody is in such a fricken hurry all the time, to the point that if you get a non-synch'd tank and healer who decide to pull single groups, you'll get DPS who grumble and even occasionally drop group just because the tank and healer aren't geared well enough to handle multipulling.

Like it or not, the game was designed to be accessible and laid-back at its core. There's savage raiding and extreme/ultimate modes, but the hardcores begged for this kind of content, I don't think this was something that Yoshi-P was really wanting to do with the game IMO.

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Trusts aren't a great example here since their stated design has them performing straight up worse than normal players. They're not some kind of design ideal, they're bots that do dungeons with you.

Also the "playerbase who deemed it was better to pull humongous groups" isn't the playerbase making that decision, math did that. It's faster. That's indisputable. If SE wanted to stop that behavior they easily could, so it clearly doesn't conflict with their design too much.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Also the "playerbase who deemed it was better to pull humongous groups" isn't the playerbase making that decision, math did that. It's faster. That's indisputable. If SE wanted to stop that behavior they easily could, so it clearly doesn't conflict with their design too much.

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I never said otherwise?

However, SE (and the Japanese in general) were never obsessed with getting things done as quickly as possible. They're laid-back as a culture, and just because you CAN do something faster, doesn't mean you SHOULD always every time. The older Japanese, dunno about the younger ones, but the older ones usually believe in a "No Rush, take your time" type approach to things. Get things done methodical and thorough instead of rushing through it as fast as you can.

Being impatient is very much a Western thing. In fact, I had an interesting conversation the other night with a person who has friends on Japanese servers and they said that their servers are far less toxic when it comes to this kind of thing, that some English players are actually deciding to move over there just to get away from the toxicity that is starting to creep up over here.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

What makes you think the people against this change and the people that drop their ilvl for easy alliance roulette are the same people?

I'm fine with this change but this line of reasoning always baffles me. When people say 'The same people that want X also hypocritically like Y' as if the playerbase is some sort of monolith with one set of opinions. Or that everyone that shares one oppinion probably shares another.

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I'm not assuming that they are the same people, hence asking "how many of you" rather than making a sweeping generalization that all of them do that. But I'm sure there is at least some overlap.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

I never said otherwise?

However, SE (and the Japanese in general) were never obsessed with getting things done as quickly as possible. They're laid-back as a culture, and just because you CAN do something faster, doesn't mean you SHOULD always every time. The older Japanese, dunno about the younger ones, but the older ones usually believe in a "No Rush, take your time" type approach to things. Get things done methodical and thorough instead of rushing through it as fast as you can.

Being impatient is very much a Western thing. In fact, I had an interesting conversation the other night with a person who has friends on Japanese servers and they said that their servers are far less toxic when it comes to this kind of thing, that some English players are actually deciding to move over there just to get away from the toxicity that is starting to creep up over here.

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It's not really a laid-back attitude or anything like that. They think of their gaming differently than we do, but they still aim for high efficiency in what they're doing.

Let me tell you a story from FFXI.

Back in caveman times when the only way to level up was to grind hundreds of mobs for hours on end, there was a game called Final Fantasy XI that was shared between Japanese and English speaking players. There were no regional servers, everyone played together. The auto-translate language was a language in and of itself.

As an American player, I spent most of my time in English-speaking parties. We'd flag up in a town or whereever.. someone would send a tell (or not.. leveling DRK sucked), you'd accept the invite and when everyone was assembled you'd decide on a camp and head out. You'd get there, pick a spot, eat some food, and do a little grinding. Maybe someone would go AFK for a few minutes, maybe someone's goldfish would start drowning.. who knows. It was a wild and crazy time. Eventually you'd break up having gotten a level or two (maybe) and go start the process over.

But there were other times when I'd get an invite from a Japanese player. Let me tell you that was a whole different ball of cats.

The tell would include the camp we were going to (the leader had already scouted it out), how long the party would stay together, which subjob was being requested, and how many other party members had joined thus far. I'd accept the party invite, we'd head to the camp, and it's like waving the green flag at Daytona.. off they'd go. Maybe some chatting, but absolutely no AFK breaks, minimal downtime (healers and casters were expected to regen MP between spellcasts), continuous pulling. Time would be up, we'd all say our goodbyes, and that'd be it.

The key difference is respect for other people's time. Convey information -> Go do thing as efficiently as possible -> Repeat.

The difference between an NA party and a JP party in that game was night and day. You felt REALLY good about yourself if you got repeat invites from a JP party leader because it meant you were on your shit and they noticed.

To draw parallels here with wall-to-wall pulling. It's just doing the dungeon as efficiently as possible. All the trash has to die no matter what else is going on... so it's better to fight it all at once then it is to fight it pack by pack one mob at a time.

Respect for other people's time.

I think my only complaint about this is that it doesn't offer hard and very hard for those who like a challenge. As to people using the easier choices, so what? These people were never going to do the savage content anyway.

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Originally Posted by Zarabeth

I think my only complaint about this is that it doesn't offer hard and very hard for those who like a challenge. As to people using the easier choices, so what? These people were never going to do the savage content anyway.

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The issue is not about the people choosing very easy trying to join in savage content. The issue is those people participating in regular content and dragging down the rest of the group due to not having the basics down.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

It's not really a laid-back attitude or anything like that. They think of their gaming differently than we do, but they still aim for high efficiency in what they're doing.

Let me tell you a story from FFXI.

snip

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YES!. Man that's one thing that really irks me about A LOT of FFXIV players. They don't respect time. They AFK, expect a carry, don't throw in dps during downtime(lazy healer syndrome), and my favorite way people waste my time...they join farm parties and leave after one kill. People are very inconsiderate in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

YES!. Man that's one thing that really irks me about A LOT of FFXIV players. They don't respect time. They AFK, expect a carry, don't throw in dps during downtime(lazy healer syndrome), and my favorite way people waste my time...they join farm parties and leave after one kill. People are very inconsiderate in FFXIV.

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Sadly it's not unique to FFXIV. Internet culture in general has moved toward an FYGM mentality.

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I think my only complaint about this is that it doesn't offer hard and very hard for those who like a challenge.

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The point of this change was never to allow a range of different challenge modes, but simply to allow people to get the already-existing 50% and 100% echo modes on the first retry (if they so choose) without having to be on the 5th or 6th retry, and to make it more convenient for people who want to win without echo to keep retrying it without (same reason why there will now be an option to disallow echo in DF for premade parties)

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Originally Posted by Alynn

Advice is only helpful when people want to take it. The game shouldn't have to lower the bar because it does a fairly good job of teaching people IF THEY WANT to learn/take it in. It's 2k19 and people are still running away from stack markers, eating aoes, not aoeing (even at level 80 lmao) during big pulls, people being freeze mages, tanks using cd's when they're ABOUT TO DIE instead of before, healers using aoe healing when the tank is about to eat a TB. Interesting how it works right?

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Aaand Echo bonus toggle during solo instances will obviously just turn everyone into auto-attack zombie. Because no one should need help when playing alone because get good. Those players should just unsub so the game can just be played by serious players and spare the rest of the community their badness. Shame on FF14 for not stepping up to teach the masses like they did back in... Oh wait. They never have. Ever.

If FFXIV listed standard rotations on Lodestone and/or log screen after every major patch and basically gave away the keys to the kingdom then there would be a huge wave complaining about how easy FF is and how they shouldn't spoon feed players. But there would still be players that either ignore that and try to figure out things for themselves or just ignore it period. Because they don't care.

I'll continue to enjoy the challenge of playing with horrible players and still clearing. Cause thats where the real challenge is.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Idiots who insist on difficulty being lowered to an extreme in a mutliplayer game are the reason why we have homogenized content. You want new content, but cry about content being too difficult. Pick one.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA whatever. We have homogenized content because people complain if they can't burn dungeons in 5 minutes, their deeps doesn't get bigly bigger each patch, and who only care about their parses/think that parses are the only true measure of "skill."

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

YES!. Man that's one thing that really irks me about A LOT of FFXIV players. They don't respect time. They AFK, expect a carry, don't throw in dps during downtime(lazy healer syndrome), and my favorite way people waste my time...they join farm parties and leave after one kill. People are very inconsiderate in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Sadly it's not unique to FFXIV. Internet culture in general has moved toward an FYGM mentality.

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No, internet culture has moved toward a 'fastfastfastfast gottagofast ifyoudon'tgofast gtfo' impatient entitlement mentality. Just like this game. Also, don't lump healers who just want to heal with AFKers, people who expect to be carried, and those who jump out of farm parties after the first kill. They aren't the same.

Sorry to be contrary (not really at all) but for handicap and disable players I feel this is a great thing.

ok, that does it. I honestly think a lot of the 5.1 changes are bad. you can try to justify this stuff all day long, but this has to be the patch with the worst changes ever made to the game. from the launcher to the crafting changes, it feels like nobody cared what the players thought. this is just the beginning too, think about how much they can ruin this game if we don't speak up now. where will you draw the line? at what point will you say 'I do not like these changes' and actually want to be heard. I say remove 5.1 and go back. just give us the new content.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

I do know how the game works, thank you very much.

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Right.

If you truly did, you'd have known that this addition is nothing more than a menu option added to an existing feature, that has been in the game for years. Thus the ultimate result of the menu being added to the game and its impact on player performance is negligible to the point of near non-existence...as any theoretical impact adding Echo buffs after initial failures would have had already happened.

Not that those battles were ever gatekeepers to endgame in the first place.

Sorry, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling today.

in the last month I leveled at 60 every job with an alt (because Garo equipment/title and because I was bored). The main has every job 70+.
In this time I did A LOT of 1-60 dungeons and I did party with half of chaos.
I met good players and terrible players but the average player was good enough to complete the "dungeon N" without problems. the peak of disaster is in the 28-41 range.
On the other hand some job quest needs a tuning (because a lot of abilities have had changes in shadowbringer) and I think this is the real reason why SE added this feature: instead of testing every quest and re-calibrate, it's a lot easier give a buff at request.
If I decide to level-up another char, I will -probably- use this feature because I might faceroll the content and maximize exp/h.

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Originally Posted by Luna_K

at what point will you say 'I do not like these changes' and actually want to be heard.

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When changes happen that I don't like?

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Originally Posted by Luna_K

at what point will you say 'I do not like these changes' and actually want to be heard

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I did. I argued about Warrior changes back in Stormblood. But the community didn't agree with me, and so changes happened anyway.

It doesn't matter how you feel about the changes, if you're the minority, you're going to lose out.

Well, just tried the first solo instance in 5.1. playing as Estinien.
Failed the first time, selected very easy mode, failed two more times. Near the end, all I was doing was dodging AOE's and barely getting any hits in.
Move with mouse and keyboard, stop, try to click an ability, move again. repeat, dead. I'm not about to redo my keybinds just so I can move and fight at the same time.. Giving up for the night. Maybe giving up on FFXIV entirely if I can't get through this damn thing.
It needs a SKIP button. or just let me play my own character so I can DPS and move at the same time.