"New game plus - quests will have no rewards..."

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

I guess you never heard of the resident evil series then.This was back on ps1 so it might be before your time but it was games like that that popularised it.

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https://i.imgur.com/2gF1EoH.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/60DdGAR.png

https://www.gamecrate.com/brief-history-new-game/20642

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Many people attribute the creation of New Game + to Chrono Trigger, and for good reason, as Chrono Trigger was the first game to use the term “New Game +.” It was not, however, the first game to feature a New Game + mode.

The origins of the New Game + actually date back to the arcade era. After a player had beaten all the content a game had to offer, the game would usually start over again in order to allow them to keep playing on a single quarter. Many older arcade games would start over with little change, but games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong would slightly alter their difficult on a subsequent playthroughs, usually by increasing the speed.

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That was a fun whirlwind lol. If they knew Chrono trigger they're old enough for resident evil, but at the same time new game plus has been used for difficulty from the earlier renditions and all that.

People can keep going of course. . . just thought to share that bit lol.

My take away here is nothing wrong with asking for difficulty options, rewards, or discussing if those rewards may cause issues, and there were a lot of people who thought the system would have rewards (at least from reading the forums) but at the same time SE didn't give an impression that would be part of it especially since NG+ is rather unusual for an MMO (so it would be good to have less expectation for such a new concept). I think it would be okay to be disappointed and ask for something extra/change, through normal dialog methods though lol. And of course recognizing there is a whole group of people who would have literally paid gil to new game+ just for story, so avoiding objective disappointment for subjective disappointment would make the discussion much smoother lol.

Anyway.. have fun~

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Originally Posted by Shougun

https://i.imgur.com/2gF1EoH.png
https://i.imgur.com/60DdGAR.png

https://www.gamecrate.com/brief-history-new-game/20642



That was a fun whirlwind lol. If they knew Chrono trigger they're old enough for resident evil, but at the same time new game plus has been used for difficulty from the earlier rendentions and all that.

People can keep going of course. . . just thought to share that bit lol.

My take away here is nothing wrong with asking for reward, or discussing if those rewards may cause issues, and there were a lot of people who thought the system would have rewards (at least from reading the forums) but at the same time SE didn't give an impression that would be part of it especially since NG+ is rather unusual for an MMO (so it would be good to have less expectation for such a new concept).

Anyway.. have fun~

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It's not uncommon for many ff players to know of chrono trigger due to it being from the same genre of games and comeing from the same company.
Also a lot of the speed runs and hard version runs that got popular in chrono trigger werent until well after the release.That games popularity jumped a lot when emulators became a thing and people could boost game speed etc.
Games like resident evil popularised unlocking hard modes when they were still current games on their consoles which led to a lot more games releasing hard modes in the future.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

My point was simply that locking a mount behind doing all of the quests in order to incentivize the content would have been nice and not at all harmful to the feature or content. If you don't want to do it then fine. If you do then great have a reward type of thing.

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I think the thing is, why would you need to "incentivise" people to use this feature?

With the current setup, if people want to replay the story, then replaying the story is its own reward and the people engaging with it are enjoying it.

If they offered an exclusive reward like a mount, people who don't care about the story would feel like they have to do it, click through everything and complain about how they were forced to replay the entire MSQ just to get that mount.

So they would possibly have more complaints and negative opinions of the system by doing that.


Also, there are plenty of logistical questions. How do you judge someone has "completed" their MSQ replay when the MSQ itself has not come to an end? Do you have to give a separate reward for every expansion? What's so special about playing the story again that you earn a pile of exclusive items from it? Would this seem like penalising people with alts, who would have to play the MSQ a second time per character if they want those rewards for that particular character?

What is drawing me to New Game+ is being able to just run the story again without getting off on all these side quests and things to try and fill levels. Playing my first job through ARR I remember having to try and meet level requirements for dungeons before I could run them and continue. There also won't be the months of down time between content since you can run them all together if you like.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Passive aggressive much? My point was simply that locking a mount behind doing all of the quests in order to incentivize the content would have been nice and not at all harmful to the feature or content. If you don't want to do it then fine. If you do then great have a reward type of thing.

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Where was I passive aggressive towards you? Hm? There were other people in this thread tossing out the 'go to the inn' yet again towards those of us saying that there was no need to attach rewards/exp to this feature... As if we hadn't been told to 'go to the inn' for the past few years when doing the MSQ already through every dungeon or group story-point because people 'gotta-go-fast' for their exp. The first line of that reply was directed towards your comment which was 'why not a mount at the end?' and I responded 'there is no "end" for this, it is not linear in design'. And it is not. It is split up into chapters for all of the expansions offered (minus ARR because they are currently in the process of revamping it to streamline it) so that people can pick and choose what they want to reply when they want to replay it. The idea that there would be a 'prize/mount' for people who 'do all the chapters' perhaps? Why? The point of this is an optional thing for people who want to jump in and see something again. There doesn't need to be a reward for doing so. There doesn't need to be a carrot attached to it.

They put a carrot at the end of something optional already: The Amaro Mount. And people are complaining their heads off about it. You don't NEED to get all classes to 80. That's something people CAN do if they WANT to for FUN. And they decided in this expansion to reward you for it. And people are complaining about the reward. >_>

This content is 100% optional, something requested by people who really want to revisit key story points. Especially now that the story is really spinning up into grand moments and conclusions and we're going 'AH HAH!' about things. And noticing things. And might want to go back to things we might have missed. People want to revisit and might not want to use alts to do so. And the devs have worked to provide a way to do it. There don't need to be prizes or rewards or ways to grind attached to it. They obviously didn't intend for there to be.

If I can't get the achivements for doing the quests paths from the other 2 cities, and I can't get access to the other 4 pieces of unique eqipment from those low level quests, what's the point?

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

If I can't get the achivements for doing the quests paths from the other 2 cities, and I can't get access to the other 4 pieces of unique eqipment from those low level quests, what's the point?

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Nothing for you. In which case simply don't do it.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

What is drawing me to New Game+ is being able to just run the story again without getting off on all these side quests and things to try and fill levels. Playing my first job through ARR I remember having to try and meet level requirements for dungeons before I could run them and continue. There also won't be the months of down time between content since you can run them all together if you like.

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Yeah that's about all I can think to use it for too. I was thinking maybe at the end of the expansion, using NG+ to do everything in one nice continuous run that's not broken up by a patch cycle.

Without exp rewards, there seems to be literally no other reason to use the feature at all.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

If I can't get the achivements for doing the quests paths from the other 2 cities, and I can't get access to the other 4 pieces of unique eqipment from those low level quests, what's the point?

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ARR isn't even implemented at this time anyway? But yeah... I guess if what you're wanting is the beginning equipment only... then there is no point for you, since this feature is to see the story, not collect gear. At least as it is currently being put into the game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So anybody know if they are killing our levels back to 1 and letting us keep gear and stuff like most games that offer NG+ ?
If so are we still going to be able to play with ppl that are not in NG+1-10 ? Like if I wana invite normal world buddies to a NG+ dungeon? Or are they leaving us in the normal world and just flipping our msq completion from 1 to 0 ?

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Originally Posted by Opie

So anybody know if they are killing our levels back to 1 and letting us keep gear and stuff like most games that offer NG+ ?
If so are we still going to be able to play with ppl that are not in NG+1-10 ? Like if I wana invite normal world buddies to a NG+ dungeon? Or are they leaving us in the normal world and just flipping our msq completion from 1 to 0 ?

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Seems more like you will keep your gear and levels and get to do that content again, unlike new game+ of single player games the difficulty wont really be adjusted and it's probable that there wont be many if any changes to the experience (like sometimes in NG+ more story/optional bosses are added). There will be some ARR changes, which is why that portion is delayed from the first release of the system, so technically that might feel a bit new/fresh from how we remember it (but I meant new specifically in relationship to using NG+, like sometimes games add some new piece of content because they can- or more extreme examples in Nier lol).

At the moment it seems best to see NG+ explicitly for the ability to experience the story again on the same character, with no other benefit. No new content (items, bosses, story), no rewards, and no difficulty increase (in fact it's probably going to be easier because instanced content is synced and not noted for increased in difficulty). More info could easily change some of those statements though~!

So bit further away from a single player new game plus concept, but it'll let you repeat old content if you wanted to enjoy some part of the story again. Of course things open for change as we get more info or as players request changes.

https://i.imgur.com/8dzFANK.jpg

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Originally Posted by Opie

So anybody know if they are killing our levels back to 1 and letting us keep gear and stuff like most games that offer NG+ ?
If so are we still going to be able to play with ppl that are not in NG+1-10 ? Like if I wana invite normal world buddies to a NG+ dungeon? Or are they leaving us in the normal world and just flipping our msq completion from 1 to 0 ?

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NG+ is a bit of a misnomer. I'm 99% certain the latter, although it wouldn't change your permanent story completion stat. I.e. it would just unlock the starting MSQ quest for the chapter that you selected and you would be able to do them as you are until the end of that chapter at which point you could select a different chapter. Scripted battles will just have their normal level sync. For dungeons, if they still require that you run it once during your revisit you would just queue for it as normal on your character as they are now. I.e. joining via duty finder, setting up a premade, or running a solo/duo unsynced run.

Thank you for the reply it clears a few things up. I'm not much on the single player side of things in my experience with division div2 and dark souls you drag a low lvl friend around in a NG+ environment and they generally get a case of seepage so I was a tad worried lol

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I do love the irony. Now people who fancy this feature and never cared about the EXP gains are just yes-men ignoring the ample pushback despite only the second post, which now boasts 53 likes, saying:



And that's only one post. Meanwhile, your post on that same page as the highest like count from the opposing side with only 18.

Normally, this would be fine. We all are entitled to our opinions. Except... apparently not, according you. Because anyone who dares support this feature without EXP is simply kissing up to SE. If I'm to be honest, you know very well your stance isn't the majority and that bothers you for some reason.

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Honestly i'm done with such petty replies.

If you have a good reason why the quests shouldn't give xp, let me know. If not, move along.

She doesn't have to move along. At all. EVER.

They don't give exp because the devs decided they shouldn't. That is not what they wanted this mode to be for. :) Taadaaaaa

It isn't a petty reply, either? You just don't LIKE it.

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Originally Posted by Nemmar

Honestly i'm done with such petty replies.

If you have a good reason why the quests shouldn't give xp, let me know. If not, move along.

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Oh, so now opposing replies are petty? A tab dismissive isn't it? But no. It couldn't possibly be that. After all, you insisted only our posts did that and never yours!

But since you asked, I already posted my explanation why NG+ couldn't reward EXP. You chose to ignore on your crusade.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Please explain how this thread proves you're right when the highest liked posts—of which there are several—argue against it? While I normally attribute little to likes, in a discussion about whether you "like" a feature or not. They are somewhat relevant.

Putting aside ARR, you're forgetting how allowing repeat EXP gains on every MSQ quest renders almost every other EXP avenue obsolete. Just doing the Shadowbringer quests from 70-71 nets you 10,080,000 EXP. For comparison sake, this is more than even the MSQ Roulette offers at the equivalent level. And you could skip every cut scene, making it take no more than a half hour if even that. Basically, New Game Plus becomes the best EXP option by a mile. Highest EXP rewards per time spent, no chance for wipe or slow downs save your own. Why would I even touch other content for leveling?

As for denying others a feature they could enjoy. People who want to experience the story again will welcome this feature because EXP gains were never their desire in the first place. The only people this "hurts" are those who hoped for a cheap and easy leveling alternative where they wouldn't even watch the cut scenes, thus defeating the entire point. Simply put, New Game+ wasn't designed for you much in the same capacity Ultimate is designed exclusively for raiders.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I'll reiterate what I posted from earlier. The first twenty one quests (70-71) awards 10,060,00 Million EXP. This is more than the MSQ Roulette at a comparable level. In fact, it's nearly the equivalent Mt. Gulg offers. If you skipped every cut scene, it'd likely take less than a half hour, thus making NG+ the best leveling method by a landslide. And you could then restart and get that 10M+ all over again with no limitations.

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Put simply, it would be abused. Good thing this thread clearly shows people fancy this feature despite it not offering EXP even if you insist otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

I guess you never heard of the resident evil series then.This was back on ps1 so it might be before your time but it was games like that that popularised it.

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The classic Resident Evil titles did NOT have a new game + feature or different difficulties. All they had were special weapons and side modes you could unlock for beating the game by either clearing it under a certain time frame or by getting a certain rank.

If you're going to refute my point, try better examples.

Also, I'm probably the same age as you or older since I was born in 89. So good job bringing my age into your argument.

You know you feel old when people young enough to be your kid are playing the I'm older than you card.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

You know you feel old when people young enough to be your kid are playing the I'm older than you card.

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It's still a stupid thing to bring up. It adds absolutely nothing to the topic and if they happen to be wrong about that point, it makes them look like an idiot.

I'm going to be using it even though there are no rewards. I get to kick Heavensward's behinds again.

I think if you were looking forward to this feature just to reap rewards, then this feature probably wasn't meant for you.

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Originally Posted by dragonkyn20

The classic Resident Evil titles did NOT have a new game + feature or different difficulties. All they had were special weapons and side modes you could unlock for beating the game by either clearing it under a certain time frame or by getting a certain rank.

If you're going to refute my point, try better examples.

Also, I'm probably the same age as you or older since I was born in 89. So good job bringing my age into your argument.

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Original resident evil 2 b game threw in mr x that attacked you at certain intervals.This wasnt a sidemode.It was the same mode with and extra boss to make it more difficult.As for age factor.i was born in 84.I grew up playing nes,megadrive and comodore 64 and got a ps1 the year it was released.My memory may not be the best of the games back then but i sure there were plenty of games that unlcoked harder difficulties upon complete.Parasite eve 2 deffintly had one as did original metal gear solid.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Original resident evil 2 b game threw in mr x that attacked you at certain intervals.This wasnt a sidemode.It was the same mode with and extra boss to make it more difficult.As for age factor.i was born in 84.I grew up playing nes,megadrive and comodore 64 and got a ps1 the year it was released.My memory may not be the best of the games back then but i sure there were plenty of games that unlcoked harder difficulties upon complete.Parasite eve 2 deffintly had one as did original metal gear solid.

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Regardless on what you mentioned with RE2's B scenario, MGS's extreme difficulty and PE2's different modifier unlocks, you're completely missing my point.

Never once did I state that the Souls games were the first games to introduce harder difficulties, but it's largely because of that series that led to it becoming a popular feature in new game +. This was never about which game did it first.

New game plus imo, should be played because you want to experience the story over, FOR THE STORY, not as a mean to gain xp, or rewards, not that we got much from the original story to begin with.

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Because anyone who dares support this feature without EXP is simply kissing up to SE.

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Yeah, uhh, that's not it.

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Originally Posted by dragonkyn20

Regardless on what you mentioned with RE2's B scenario, MGS's extreme difficulty and PE2's different modifier unlocks, you're completely missing my point.

Never once did I state that the Souls games were the first games to introduce harder difficulties, but it's largely because of that series that led to it becoming a popular feature in new game +. This was never about which game did it first.

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But its not.It was popularised long before dark souls series.Yes dark souls revitalized it at a time where the newer generation of gamers were being fed mostly dumbed down games by development companies that were shifting away from gameplay focus and more on graphical and cutscene focus so to finally have difficult games and difficult content was a fresh of breath air so in that way you'd be technically right.It made it popular again.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Thats oppinion and not fact.You need to learn the difference.Plenty of people enjoy reliving content for story.Hell there are some who have gone back to do praetorium just for that.
Just because some people dont agree doesnt mean thats the opinion of the entire game population.
And like most things in game its optional content.
You dont want to do it if there's no rewards then dont do it.

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Actually, the part where he said that doing quests equals rewards which is why people do them is spot on. I do beast tribes every day to get the rewards. I did story quests (because I had to) and also to enjoy the quest rewards. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. It's why I did them. It's why I still do quests. The goal is to get to level 80. Everyone, unless they're level 1, did quests for the rewards at some point in this game- even you.

New Game+ won't be useless. It's a great feature for reliving the story on a new job, and I very much look forward to starting over on my Viera alt. That said... I'm really hoping they do implement at least some form of exp reward anyway. It would make a very nice change from grinding mercilessly to level new jobs.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Oh, so now opposing replies are petty? A tab dismissive isn't it? But no. It couldn't possibly be that. After all, you insisted only our posts did that and never yours!

But since you asked, I already posted my explanation why NG+ couldn't reward EXP. You chose to ignore on your crusade.





Put simply, it would be abused. Good thing this thread clearly shows people fancy this feature despite it not offering EXP even if you insist otherwise.

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Here's how to stop the exploit- if you have a new job, i.e. a job that has NOT done the MSQ, it could gain exp in NG+. It would be another way to level up jobs without having to grind fates, do beast tibes, do dungeons, etc... Some people like to level up when you're questing. It's not an exploit- it's leveling while questing. "But you'll reach level 80 by doing quests" yeah, that's... the whole point. Nearly everyone who plays this game wants to reach level 80.

When did questing become exploitative? In every single MMO I've played, when you start a new class, you can restart all of the quests. This game has one character doing all classes which means that all quests can only be used on one class

not sure if someone mentioned before , but it means we will get back skippable cutscenes ? like in msq roulette and these two dungeons ? like giving new players something like Trust with only that one guy who is there

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Originally Posted by ForctyusGold

not sure if someone mentioned before , but it means we will get back skippable cutscenes ? like in msq roulette and these two dungeons ? like giving new players something like Trust with only that one guy who is there

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Unlikely since there's still new players to consider, and since this feature was made expressly with encouraging people to enjoy the story in mind there's no way it's implementation would come on the heels of neutering the ability to enjoy said story in either MSQ dungeon. That's rather counter productive all things considered.

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Originally Posted by ForctyusGold

not sure if someone mentioned before , but it means we will get back skippable cutscenes ? like in msq roulette and these two dungeons ? like giving new players something like Trust with only that one guy who is there

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No, probably not.

This is about NG+, a feature we will get with the next patch - 5.1 - that allows you to go back and redo storyquests for the purpose of doing that part of the story again. Its not related to the MSQ-dungeons, just to all the one-time-only storyquests that you'll be able to do again if you want to.

They also announced that they're going to rework ARR, but thats planned for 5.3. Reworking seems to include things like streamlining etc.
...and hopefully a real fix for Castrum and Praetorium by turning them into solo-instances or something of that sort (after they have the technology now, so yes, something like trusts). Logically that would mean the removal of the MSQ-roulette alltogether. Obviously this is only speculation, but I would expect to never ever get skippable cutscenes back in the MSQ-roulette. If those dungeons are turned into solo-instances, maybe. Because then its only up to the person currently playing solo wether or not they want to see the cutscenes. But if the dungeons stay in DF in some way the cutscenes will most likely stay unskippable. I'd like to remind you that the massive reward you get from MSQ-roulette is because of the time investment, including those cutscenes. Dont hold your breath for ever being able again to ruin someones first time experience in those dungeons by skipping cutscenes and rushing them because you're only after the massive chunk of exp.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

But its not.It was popularised long before dark souls series.Yes dark souls revitalized it at a time where the newer generation of gamers were being fed mostly dumbed down games by development companies that were shifting away from gameplay focus and more on graphical and cutscene focus so to finally have difficult games and difficult content was a fresh of breath air so in that way you'd be technically right.It made it popular again.

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We're just gonna have to agree/disagree here.

I still hope it gives XP. Even if it is 1/5 of the normal xp from the quests it will be a good thing.

Would like exp give another option to leveling /shrugs

Some may not believe it but some, including me, really love the story.
I don't care it doesn't give rewards. I will enjoy fully this new feature and live again the amazing journey and with my new viera. :)

If you don't like this feature, simply ignore it and respect others who love it. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by ForctyusGold

not sure if someone mentioned before , but it means we will get back skippable cutscenes ? like in msq roulette and these two dungeons ? like giving new players something like Trust with only that one guy who is there

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If that happens you’ll go back to getting very, very little exp for doing MSQ roulette like we got before, I personally like the exp and think it’s worth it so I prefer things stay the way they do.

Should make the three or four people who use it really happy.

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Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

Should make the three or four people who use it really happy.

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Regardless of how many people wanted this I don't think it's any less important than other features. I stated my opinion on the feature itself earlier in this thread, and that hasn't changed. But it is meeting a demand, however large or small. This game needs to have a little something for everyone, and this just adds to it.

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Originally Posted by Machi_Machiavelli

Should make the three or four people who use it really happy.

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...I don’t think you are aware of how many people play this game for the story and really enjoy it.