Lack of End Game Content

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

XIV lacks in nothing imho.

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While I agree with FFXIV having tons of content to do, I've been playing since late ARR and there are still things I'm working on. The above quoted statement is simply not true.


FFXIV is lacking in a lot of areas, especially when it comes to limitations caused by the old 1.0 spaghetti code. I also think that a majority of the people in this thread are misunderstanding what end-game content means.


There is a massive difference between Max level content and End-game content. The OP is obviously specifically talking about challenging end-game content and that there is too little of it.


I keep seeing people being really passive aggressive in their responses completely misunderstanding that the OP is not talking about all content.


There is a stigma attached to the FFXIV community on how people that criticize any part of the game are treated and these snide, disrespectful responses are literally proving that.


Anyway, as for the OPs question I agree that FFXIVs endgame isnt as robust as other MMOs. I'm pretty sure Yoshida's stance of wanting people to take breaks and play other games is part of that. We will have Ultimate to look forward to and hopefully they throw something new into the fray in Shadowbringers. Only time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

See, design in wow focuses on "the game doesn't start until you are max level, everything else is garbage"

This is where people are saying xiv is different. As it focuses on the whole of the game, not just max level content.


Would you say final fantasy 7 is only the northern crater and the weapon fights? Or is it the whole of the game?

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The philosophy of wow is shit. My problem here is the defense that is being made by people who demonstrate having no idea about what is endgame. With Stormblood this has been improved, the fighting in Ultimate has meant that people who do high end do not have to wait 6 months to wait for something new, the inclusion of a "fifth" combat in savage is also something to be thankful for, the same with Baldesion

But I still see a serious problem with the raids, being only 4 fights seems very poor to me, especially because you have to wait 6 months to have something similar again. For people who have just started the game, it has a LOT of difficult content but for the old ones who have already completed everything, having 4 bosses every 6 months or a boss for 3 months is ...

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Originally Posted by Klb600

You are exaggerating, it was more 20-30 hours at the most.

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split the different at 30-40? it depends on how you measure it. i can tell you this for certain

07/02/2019
[12:01 a.m.]You earn the achievement “Shadowbringers”!

i started playing when the servers went up on Friday and didn't do much else those 4 days. i didn't spend all of my waking hours doing the MSQ but still.

People who complain about a lack of things to do in this game must do litterally nothing else at all with their lives.

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Originally Posted by Selova

The OP is obviously specifically talking about challenging end-game content and that there is too little of it.

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In regards to that I actually blame the scripted combats. Even though I don't like WoW, the amount of random stuff that happens on some encounters is enough to keep people busy regardless of doing the same thing over and over again like every other MMO, including FF. There is challenging content here, however it's more about memorizing what's scripted instead of having a good reaction time to deal with the unpredictable. There's only so much difficulty to be applied to something you will eventually memorize from start to end. I am not disagreeing with you, by the way.

The people complaining about lack of endgame usually refer it to progression based endgame, or things that progress your character in a meaningful way.

IN that sense this game has always been one of the mmos with the Least amount of content.

Mounts, Glamour, Minions, PvP, Housing are all aspects of the game yes, but they have literally nothing to do with endgame progression. And do not build your character at all. It is the same thing as achievements they are there but pointless in the end besides busy work and vanity items.

Crafting while great in how it works here has no impact on endgame outside Food and Meds, due to the economy being 100% geared towards ppl leveling and not endgame. Most the money you make crafting gear comes from selling to other crafters, after a few months of each expansion. Leveling all your jobs is a valid argument to make, but you can only really gear 2 archetypes at once due to the lockouts. Example if you gear healers and tanks, all dps (Range/Magic/Melee) will be forced to be a lower gearscore.

FFXIV does really good at the leveling and low to mid-low core endgame aspects, but they 100% lack in the upper endgame aspect. This is one of the biggest issues FFXIV has. My guild since ARR has lost over 70 members who quit due to excessive boredom, many of them still play 25-30+hrs a week on other games now. Alot of people do not take breaks and come back... they quit and go elsewhere permanently.

All in all the game needs more upper tier endgame then a 4 raid boss fight every 6 months. That simple. Eureka for example would of been better if it released along side the current tier endgame instead of rewarding you with crap weaker then you were getting already. Just need more stuff at once, multiple avenues of progression.

In the end if you are a hardcore player YOU WILL run out of meaningful content after you learn savage within the first 10hrs of every week (about 2 days). Game has about 25% of the needed content at upper endgame at any 1 time, always been the case with ffxiv.

Add for those saying it is a player problem. If players run out of content it is a game problem not a player problem. 10-15 hrs a week is mega casual for a mmo, that should never be used as a benchmark on how to make a mmo.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

It's not a game problem it's a player problem. Let me explain. As someone who works and generally only plays for a few hours in a day, there's more to do than I have time for. Yet people who play all day every day speed through everything then wonder why there's nothing to do. I see it all the time. Heck there were people who finished the MSQ the first weekend and they were already complaining.

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i play 4-5 hours a day, because unfortunately this is a game with monthly subscription and playing less than 15 days is lost money when you are paying 30. My roommate also works and plays 4-5 hours a day and always completes the content savage in one or two months. The problem that is spoken is not something of this expansion, it is a problem that the game has had for many years.

FFXIV doesn't have an end-game, that's the whole point, it's a theme park. I think you are on the wrong game, the dead horse known as wow is --> over there.

Some people consider fishing their personal end-game, other may enjoy farming mounts, you set your own goals, you don't need a babysitter to tell you what your end-game should be.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

10-15 hrs a week is mega casual for a mmo, that should never be used as a benchmark on how to make a mmo.

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you have to evolve with the world.

10 hours is a quarter of a fulltime job. if 15 hours is still MEGA casual, that's a problem in definition. if someone told you they went to the gym 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wouldn't say they are a mega casual gymgoer.

i would say 15 hours is above the median for FFXIV subscribers.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

FFXIV doesn't have an end-game, that's the whole point, it's a theme park. I think you are on the wrong game, the dead horse known as wow is --> over there.

Some people consider fishing their personal end-game, other may enjoy farming mounts, you set your own goals, you don't need a babysitter to tell you what your end-game should be.

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Ultimate, Savage, Extreme are not "Endgame? lol

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you have to evolve with the world.

10 hours is a quarter of a fulltime job. if 15 hours is still MEGA casual, that's a problem in definition. if someone told you they went to the gym 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you wouldn't say they are a mega casual gymgoer.

i would say 15 hours is above the median for FFXIV subscribers.

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Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Because that's substantially more time than the average person needs for an appropriate weekly workout routine. It's not really an apt comparison to a video game, which is purely for recreation. If someone told you they spent a few hours a night on any other hobby, you probably wouldn't bat an eye at it, though you might be envious of their free time.

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but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

Leveling up all your other jobs—not end game content, no matter how you spin it.

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Right, but unlocking a new race, restarting from the start, and doing it all over until you get where you were already - thats end-game right?

Oh, how about doing a whole bunch of grinds to unlock something like flying at max level - but you can only get it a year later - thats end-game?

The raid or die mentality, raids with lots of bosses that dont matter - that worked in WoD right?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

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"Mega casual" is maybe a bit much, but it's definitely a casual amount of time. MMORPGs are notorious for the amount of time players invest into them, and aren't readily comparable to most other pursuits. Consider that the MSQ added for Shadowbringers launch alone is basically an entire single-player RPG worth of content, and you have to get through that to do anything else, but a ton of people will have completed that in the first few days of the expansion. MMOs are generally made for and attract an all around more hardcore audience, who expect an appropriate amount of content to keep them satisfied. If you're one of those people who only plays a few hours a week, it's little wonder that you wouldn't understand the dilemma.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

Exactly! Take WoW for example.. I never really found farming azerite or world quests to be "thrilling". But i was kept busy and entertained.

Mythics provided a new way to keep old content fresh and challenging, whilst providing rewards that were relevant for the efforts put in.

This all end game content that outside outside of raiding.

You could still progress your character, everyday with your friends or alone, little by little. And that keeps a lot of players subscribed.

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Yea that Azerite grind was so entertaining it entertained the game into people leaving at the same rate they did in WoD.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

but i wouldn't call that a mega casual hobby no matter what it is.

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I too wouldn't call it mega casual. Goodness, if I knew someone who spent more than 15 hours a week I would respond with 2 things. "are they a kid with a lot of free time?" "Does that person not have any outside responsibilities? like work, family, chores, or other responsible adult things?"

Maybe as I am entering my itching closer to my 40's that I have far more appreciation to take a break from something. As for the sub, I often forget its even there until I get notified because I am a place where I feel financially healthy. But that does come with the fact that I typically get an additional 10-15 hours a week in over time at my job. Because of that even when I took a break I liked the Idea to be able to return when ever I am able to have time even if that means dropping only 6 hours this particular week.

Being Old School hardcore back in college I see the issue. But FFXIV from the stand point I am seeing was not made for players to sink 30+hours a week into it. It is just simply not designed that way. FFXI was.... oh good god it was. Classic WoW was.... ...who remembers 8 hour AQ 40 raids.

suddenly people realize this "problem" when a wow player who didn't know what to expect from a casual mmo have talked about it
keeping you subbed have never been a goal of this game

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Originally Posted by Klb600

You are exaggerating, it was more 20-30 hours at the most.

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Lol - ok, even if thats true, three days is 72 hours. So you spent 40% of your existence over three days to complete the MSQ.

When you consider the number of hours people normally sleep, and the number of hours of work in a psying job .... when you say you beat it in three days because it was only 30 hours ...

Dude - that reveals more about you than the actual game ....

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Originally Posted by Forever_Learning

Lol - ok, even if thats true, three days is 72 hours. So you spent 40% of your existence over three days to complete the MSQ.

When you consider the number of hours people normally sleep, and the number of hours of work in a psying job .... when you say you beat it in three days because it was only 30 hours ...

Dude - that reveals more about you than the actual game ....

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I never claimed to beat it in 3 days...I am just clarifying that the game is in no way as long as the person made it out to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

I never understand threads like this. It always reads like, "I'm not having fun with this game--tell me some things I can do!" *insert long list of things* "Oh I don't want to do any of that. This game is lacking in content."

I don't know what to tell you. You know what the game has to offer the same as the rest of the us—it isn't like there's this top secret level 80 activity we're all doing and no one told you about. If none of it appeals to you, I'm certainly not going to waste time trying to sell it to you.

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Originally Posted by Nayout

The philosophy of wow is shit. My problem here is the defense that is being made by people who demonstrate having no idea about what is endgame. With Stormblood this has been improved, the fighting in Ultimate has meant that people who do high end do not have to wait 6 months to wait for something new, the inclusion of a "fifth" combat in savage is also something to be thankful for, the same with Baldesion

But I still see a serious problem with the raids, being only 4 fights seems very poor to me, especially because you have to wait 6 months to have something similar again. For people who have just started the game, it has a LOT of difficult content but for the old ones who have already completed everything, having 4 bosses every 6 months or a boss for 3 months is ...

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Is what you receive in WoW, except you have to wait sometimes an entire year for more content.

What? I hear you saying raids in WoW have many bosses, often over 10, how is that comparable???

Well, a lot of raiders actually talk about WoW raids having 'filler bosses'. A recent raid had 9 bosses, the first half were trivial, the next few a bit tough, and only the final boss really being a challenge. Thus, you had hundreds of teams who defeated 8 of of 9 bosses, but less than a hundred at 9 out of 9 bosses.

Then they released a raid with only two bosses, but it was so challenging, most guilds didn't do it, or just beat the first boss and left the second boss alone.

You see, there is way too much emphasis here on how many bosses are listed, and virtually nothing about the quality of those bosses.

FF14 could probably easily thrown in four filler bosses that super easy to defeat, just to pad the raid and make it seem bigger.

Is that really what people want?

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Originally Posted by Arthrun

I too wouldn't call it mega casual. Goodness, if I knew someone who spent more than 15 hours a week I would respond with 2 things. "are they a kid with a lot of free time?" "Does that person not have any outside responsibilities? like work, family, chores, or other responsible adult things?"

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Gonna need you to get over yourself. There are 168 hours in a week. If you can't find 15 to spend on recreation, you've probably made some poor decisions.

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

There is challenging content here, however it's more about memorizing what's scripted instead of having a good reaction time to deal with the unpredictable. There's only so much difficulty to be applied to something you will eventually memorize from start to end. I am not disagreeing with you, by the way.

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Did we forget that every raider in WoW is using add-ons that tell them exactly when big moves are coming, when a new phase has begun, or even ones that scream at you when you are in AOE? Let's not forget all the dot trackers, buff trackers, and the other add-ons telling you exactly what to press at every single moment.

I understand what you mean about FF having scripted fights, but WoW boss fights also have their own phases, and you do a set strategy from start to finish with the help of your add-ons telling you when everything thing is going happen. The vast majority is quite predictable.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Mounts, Glamour, Minions, PvP, Housing are all aspects of the game yes, but they have literally nothing to do with endgame progression. And do not build your character at all. It is the same thing as achievements they are there but pointless in the end besides busy work and vanity items.

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Um, most people in WoW DONT RAID. It's been estimated that roughly 10-20% of the playerbase are doing raids.

What are the rest doing? They do mount runs, they level alts, they go after achievements (for more mounts), various quests (for more mounts), and other activities that largely revolve around collecting. Many people involved in pet collecting or battling (minions) as well as PVP.

When people in WoW who don't raid, or don't want to raid, ask what there is to do, they get the same answer here: mounts, collecting transmog (glam), levelling alts.

For some reason, that has always been considered part of end-game in WoW, especially for people who don't raid, yet for some reason people here want to argue that it doesn't count?

Do you know what is requested CONSTANTLY by WoW players? Housing! They want the housing system that exists in FF and would like to spend their end-game time focused on that. Yet again, some people here want to say it doesn't count as end-game, even though WoW players feel it should be added as a major part of end-game? Why don't you go to the WoW forums and tell them how mount and pet collecting isn't part of end-game, and that housing is a waist of time

Please do, cause I know the reception you'll get.

Collecting is now a major part of the end-game in WoW, some would say it's the only part of end-game that matters because gear doesn't last.

So when people in this game tell you collecting is part of end-game, they are speaking exactly like WoW players, who actually agree with them!

You know, those people in WoW we call the filthy casuals. You know - the majority of the players?

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

FFXIV doesn't have an end-game, that's the whole point, it's a theme park. I think you are on the wrong game, the dead horse known as wow is --> over there.

Some people consider fishing their personal end-game, other may enjoy farming mounts, you set your own goals, you don't need a babysitter to tell you what your end-game should be.

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Both FFXIV and WoW are theme park MMOs, most modern MMOs are. Being a theme park MMO doesn't mean having little to do at end game.

I think you mean sandbox MMOs don't have an end game, which has little to do with FFXIV because it's not one.

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I never really found farming azerite or world quests to be "thrilling". But i was kept busy and entertained.

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There's a lot of side content, but if you don't enjoy it--you don't enjoy it.

Perseonally, I hate world quests and farming azeroite. So I didn't do it. But what I did enjoy was running old content and filling up my transmog list. God, I wish I could do that in FFXIV.

But surprisingly enough, my current time-sink outside of gearing my main is leveling alts up on the new fate system. I don't typically enjoy fates. I just want to max out each zone so I can buy stuff. And fates are boring enough that I can do them while listening to podcasts. I will admit, that I'll gladly fate over Warcraft's world quests simply on the fact that I can fly in FFXIV. There's no way in heck I'd land-travel between destinations and get dismounted on trash. Major turn-off.

Swtor does it even better that you can literally teleport to each daily/world/quest thingy. I don't mind the actions. I LOATHE travel time.

If FFXIV fixed the glamour chest to be unlimited, and let me hoard all the old duty sets. I'd probably be addicted for a few years just trying to fill up on every dancer set. But since the chest is limited. I don't collect anything beyond what I'd actually use.

An unlimited glam chest would probably be my #1 wish for QoL features.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Gonna need you to get over yourself. There are 168 hours in a week. If you can't find 15 to spend on recreation, you've probably made some poor decisions.

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My apologies, didn't mean to come off as self righteous. To me it just is very surprising because I have so many other things that I need/want to do. I clearly stated More than 15 hours Some weeks when I have more than 20 hours a week clocked. But majority of the time I have many other recreational or things I want to do with my family or other things I want to accomplish. So for you to assume that gaming is a persons only recreational time needs to take a step back from this discussion.

But for fun lets just break down what many would asume is an average adult life.

40-50 hours a week for work. 1 hour drive time to and from 5 days a week. = 45=55 hours
Additional 6-8 hours of sleep a night = 42 - 56 hours

87-112 hours used so far.

We all have different eating habits but for funsies lets just say 15 -45 mins per meal not including snacks possibly 3 rimes a day = 45m - 2.25 hours roughly. 5.25 - 15.75 hours

And for the sake of argument lets assume we all bathe 30 mins a day.

So we are what? 96-130 hours.

You have 38-72 hours in your week to do whatever one wants. I find I like spending time with my wife watching what ever show she seems to enjoy at the moment say 2 hours here and there. I get some solid exercise walking my dog at least an hour a day. I like to make sure my House is clean so I dedicate at least 2 or more hours to clean up on the weekend. perhaps some friends wants to hang out a bit that can easily last up to 4 hours. Some times things like grocery shopping and getting "errands" done can take 3 hours in your week. I also have been getting into Light novels lately so there is about 3 hours per book there.

Maybe its just a me things but I find Not neglecting your family during your recreational time is apart of your adult responsibilities. And good grief can your family eat up whatever free time you have, but I wouldn't give it up for the world. So yes it is a struggle for me to comprehend that there are those out there that can sink as much time into the game as they would a full time job.

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Originally Posted by Arthrun

40-50 hours a week for work. 1 hour drive time to and from 5 days a week. = 45=55 hours

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Or if you live in Germany it's 35 hours a week. 40% of people in the US sleep for 6 hours or less. And in the UK at least, only half the adult population is currently married.

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Originally Posted by Kaylessa

Or if you live in Germany it's 35 hours a week. 40% of people in the US sleep for 6 hours or less. And in the UK at least, only half the adult population is currently married.

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huh...that's actually kind of surprising to see if what you state is true. I learned something today.

I am not sure if I have anything else to contribute so Ill just see my self to the corner and just forum watch for a while.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

If FFXIV fixed the glamour chest to be unlimited, and let me hoard all the old duty sets. I'd probably be addicted for a few years just trying to fill up on every dancer set. But since the chest is limited. I don't collect anything beyond what I'd actually use.

An unlimited glam chest would probably be my #1 wish for QoL features.

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I'd love to be able to collect every set of gear someday and not have to store them in my retainer. Some of the dungeon gear sets look amazing but I don't collect them because there's no space to put them.

I think that ffxiv has end game like personal above point out that their many different form of end for the 24 mans dungeon to the hard more 8 man raid that come out, to extreme trial to the soon rebuild the city Isgard for crafters. end game is what you make it to be across there are treasure maps aswell. in wow end game is set by the devs. in ffxiv end game is set by the players that is beuty of ffxiv

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I think that ffxiv has end game like personal above point out that their many different form of end for the 24 mans dungeon to the hard more 8 man raid that come out, to extreme trial to the soon rebuild the city Isgard for crafters. end game is what you make it to be across there are treasure maps aswell. in wow end game is set by the devs. in ffxiv end game is set by the players that is beuty of ffxiv

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Yes. As someone who doesn't touch Extreme primal's on launch and doesn't do 8 man savage raids my definition of end game content is different to raiders.

There's enough casual content available to keep players busy for a month or 2 at least but in terms of savage tier content that would be up to the individuals to decide.

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Originally Posted by Tint

But yeah, you have to set your own goals in this game, otherwise endgame is just expert roulette once a day and 4 raidturns + ex primal.

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This seems to be the key. The expansion just dropped, SE won't release all the content at once because they want to give everyone a chance to get through the story and get through normal mode. Savage raids will drop in a couple of weeks for the masochists.

For everyone else, there's the gear grinds, the class grinds, and the quest completion to deal with.

My achievement score is currently 12,145 - I know the maximum possible total is well over 16,000 now. Still plenty left to do!

Now excuse me, I'm going back to PVP so I can get more Makai titles before that event ends in patch 5.1.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

I think that ffxiv has end game like personal above point out that their many different form of end for the 24 mans dungeon to the hard more 8 man raid that come out, to extreme trial to the soon rebuild the city Isgard for crafters. end game is what you make it to be across there are treasure maps aswell. in wow end game is set by the devs. in ffxiv end game is set by the players that is beuty of ffxiv

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End game isn't set by the players. You make it sound like this is a sandbox of some sort, yes there are a wide variety of side activities to partake in(which btw exist in many MMO's) but they are not set by players nor are they related to the endgame progression that is referred to by most MMO players.

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Originally Posted by Altera

I have no idea what Endgame content means. But people need to stop focusing on purely gear lvl increase etc.
Achievement farming, treasure maps, crafting, housing, glamour, mount and minion farming, Orchestrion farm, HoH, Eureka Relic.
I used to play WOW from 2004-2011, and I found their content very lacking compared to what I am getting from FFXIV.

But you should also stop comparing and try turning XIV into WOW, as I dont want to play WOW again personally. If you find the content in WOW fun, then go play WOW until bored and then come back to XIV inbetween patches.

I just really hate how Activision Blizzard is behaving and will never give them my money again personally.
And Scottzone is another LazyPeon who bought LVL/Story skip so all his credibility towards XIV is null and void

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What? I don't think you're right about Scottzone... unless I'm missing something I remember him saying he LEVELED thur all the expacs til shadows. As he holds a VERY different opinion then lazypeon.. he even mentions it in one of his streams. So unless I missed something I think you're wrong on that part.

Now that I got a lil more time to post, and not on mobile and dealing with those shenanigans...

On the lack of endgame content, I don't think a Theme Park MMO is ever going to truly solve that problem for the really hardcore players. A more sandbox one might be able to. The reason I think this? Is it really has to do with what sticks with players and actually feels like meaningful progression.

Take a moment, and think about what you remember more. Finally killing whatever PITA boss for the first time, or getting the gear from them? I know for me, its the stories I acquire along the way instead of all eventually to be discarded stat sticks. Even in FFXI with their merits and class mastery points, or other games with alternative advancement systems, those systems just boiled down to grindy more permanent stat sticks.

For crafters and gathers, what they do has to be relevant to other endgame activities. Theme park MMO's often have dungeon gear treadmills, so crafted gear becomes pretty much useless outside of initial starting point gear. So that would mean there would need to be something else that has an impact on aspects of the end game that has a constant demand for items that can only be crafted by players, for older WoW players think along the lines of the supply quest to open I think it was AQ?, but not just the initial opening, keeping it open.

For those that like raiding and the like, you really need to get to the bottom of what are they are actually after. Bigger numbers, bragging rights, or epic stories? So for the bigger numbers aka the loot treadmill, without procedurally generated content, there really is no way to satisfy that long term and even have a chance of keeping it challenging at the rate players consume content. If its bragging rights and epic stories, this I think can be done simply by slowing down the loot treadmill by making optional hard content with no or few gear rewards. The idea is they are doing this for the challenge, not the gear. A clever way of doing would be having the hard optional dungeons require a crafted item to enter, and reward items crafters would need to craft the entry materials. Clears could reward progressively higher quality tiers of materials, which could allow a skilled crafter to make an even higher quality version of the entry item to open a higher difficulty version of the dungeon. So Normal item-> Normal Dungeon -> HQ Item -> Extreme -> HQ 2 -> Savage and so on. This creates a nice linkage between endgame raiding and crafting.

Ultimately, however, the endgame content problem I don't think is going away until someone figures out a way to successfully get and stay away from the dreaded gear treadmills players seem so fond of.

Here I am just now going to fetch the second twin. I think I just hit 71. Looks like I have plenty of stuff to look forward to. I should go back and finish Omega and Ivilace raids too.

I personally think it's abit to early to judge shadow's endgame content... like it's not even a month old yet. We don't even have the new raids yet... hell the 24 mans coming out are a month or so away. We haven't gotten everything yet. While I get you want more but the problem you're goign to run into is people see that and see you don't have everything maxed out. They are goign to push back, and they are goign to push back hard. It's like the people complaining about not having actual hard content but then you look and see they never did anything harder then freaking expert. Noone is going to listen to that... is it fair... not really but would you listen to someone who's never played a fighting game tellign you fighting games are bad? Or if they only played MK and said Street Fighter was a button masher? I hope you wouldn't cause thats what it looks like. This game has ALOT to do.. the problem is that what you like to do is only the tip of a VERY large mountain. And the other thing is timing... again I can't stress this enough... shadows literally just came out. We DON'T even have sav yet. Give it time. End game is coming.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

"Mega casual" is maybe a bit much, but it's definitely a casual amount of time. MMORPGs are notorious for the amount of time players invest into them, and aren't readily comparable to most other pursuits. Consider that the MSQ added for Shadowbringers launch alone is basically an entire single-player RPG worth of content, and you have to get through that to do anything else, but a ton of people will have completed that in the first few days of the expansion. MMOs are generally made for and attract an all around more hardcore audience, who expect an appropriate amount of content to keep them satisfied. If you're one of those people who only plays a few hours a week, it's little wonder that you wouldn't understand the dilemma.

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MMOs are also notorious for filling that endgame void with pointless junk. There are many MMOs- I'd actually say most- wherein they make a lot of content, that will take a lot of time to get through enough times to get the ultra rare BiS piece, or have 1% or lower drop rates on mounts that you can farm for once a week in raids that take hours to get through even when soloable. But it's not good content.

If you were to look at WoW's newest patch- if you want the BiS gear, you're looking at months of 40+ hour a week grinding to -maybe- have a few pieces of bis gear, with luck. But if you were to just do each piece of new content once- it'd take a day, maybe a few more if you consider repackaged WQs to be 'new content'.

While I don't think anyone would ever be against having more content- the problem is everyone has the fairly realistic realization that it would never work that way, and how it always works is we get less of something else in order to move resources into that other content.

I'd rather they focus on making a quality game with lots of casual content, as well as the savages/extremes, etc...- then to turn casual content into what every other mmo does, and throw grindable dailies at them where the sole reward is the reward, not the journey.

Frankly, if I didn't get a single piece of gear from doing the storyline in this game, I'd still be able to say I greatly enjoyed it- I'm not even thinking of rewards as I work through the story of this game. If WQs in WoW didn't have rewards, I wouldn't do a single one of them, ever.

I know it's not the typical mmo formula- but imo that's what makes FFXIV different and far more enjoyable. Now, if they feel they can keep up the quality, still make it enjoyable and also put in endless content for those that blow through the game and have thirty hours a week to play the game- great, all for it. Priorities though- I'd rather have well rounded, enjoyable content than a hyper focus on making good content solely for elite hardcores at the cost of quality for everyone else.