Jobs and Class, I am nervous now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.

---

Your talking about the old team.. This is an entirely different team, that's nearly always hits the mark in Quality patches recently. There's a difference

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.

---

The patch hits in 2-3 days you bloody genius. What do you hope thia thread will accomplish by then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Your talking about the old team.. This is an entirely different team, that's nearly always hits the mark in Quality patches recently. There's a difference

---

no it's not just the old team. the same thing is still going on.

battle sucks "wait til 1.18'
1.18
battle is still bad "wait til they finish"

crafting sucks "wait til recipe changes"
recipe changes hit
crafting is still bad "that was only the first change keep waiting"

as far as entirely a different team you may want to look that up. there were very few changes off of the old team. they did add some new people and changed the people in leadership positions, but the majority of the original team are in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no it's not just the old team. the same thing is still going on.

battle sucks "wait til 1.18'
1.18
battle is still bad "wait til they finish"

crafting sucks "wait til recipe changes"
recipe changes hit
crafting is still bad "that was only the first change keep waiting"

as far as entirely a different team you may want to look that up. there were very few changes off of the old team. they did add some new people and changed the people in leadership positions, but the majority of the original team are in place.

---

Your Opinion, not fact

Changing Directors/Producers= Is like Changing the whole thing entirely ( New Vision, Different aspect etc) may not Necessarily mean the whole team has to be changed to have a different approach, You can change a whole team.. but if the same Focus same Vision is there.. then nothing really changes with the future of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no it's not just the old team. the same thing is still going on.

battle sucks "wait til 1.18'
1.18
battle is still bad "wait til they finish"

crafting sucks "wait til recipe changes"
recipe changes hit
crafting is still bad "that was only the first change keep waiting"

as far as entirely a different team you may want to look that up. there were very few changes off of the old team. they did add some new people and changed the people in leadership positions, but the majority of the original team are in place.

---

That's not what's happening here though. Giving feedback on current builds is one thing, but whats happening here is an attempt at feedback or criticism on a build we have yet to try and see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

that is called voicing a concern. giving feedback is for after it goes into the game. the thing is he voices a concern based off of questionable evidence is better than the people disputing his concerns with zero evidence. he has a right to voice his concerns. they may be wrong once the patch hits, but it is nice to see where people have concerns so they can be tested, disputed, and refuted after the items are brought into the game.

---

Right, except the fact that he did voice his concern off of very VERY superficial, non-empirical (sp) information, and the majority of us have been trying to say, "Hey, bro, yeah it seems weird, but it's even more weird that they'd spend thousands of hours just to create something that will have little to no effect at all to the current system. I think you should just relax for the time being, try out the patch, and if you still have concerns voice them again once you've had a chance to actually try the new stuff out."

Yes, by all means voice your concerns, but don't shout "the sky is going to fall on Friday!" and expect to be coddled by the rest of the community. Especially when nearly every attempt to approach his concerns from a different perspective he's just going to sit there and shove his subjective concerns in your face like it's the factual realization of what will come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Your Opinion, not fact

---

no not my opinion. i am using those as examples of what has went on in these very forums. people have been complaining since this staff took over just as much as they did during the old staff. both groups that had issues were told the exact same thing. they were told to wait. it was not just something that went on during the original staff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

no not my opinion. i am using those as examples of what has went on in these very forums. people have been complaining since this staff took over just as much as they did during the old staff. both groups that had issues were told the exact same thing. they were told to wait. it was not just something that went on during the original staff.

---

And it is the Complaining of the Forums which will if anything be the destruction of this game "If anything"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.

---

Wow, are you serious? .... actually PLAYING content and knowing it's crap is very different than watching a 45sec video showing off ONE aspect of ONE change (i.e., the 'H' button functionality) and assuming it's going to be crap.

Dude... c'mon, really? That's like watching a 30-second movie trailer, and posting on Facebook, "Look how crappy this movie is going to be. I know for fact!"

Man...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Ancient magic spells. Hopefully they don't all share the 15 minute timer, because before they were removed the first time developers decided to make them all 80 second recasts. So if you casted flare all ancient spells would be on the 80 second timer.

Convert (Gimped Exaltation)

Sleepga (Sleep without aoe toggle)

---

How is a convert an gimped Exalation? That skill would never give you 2k+ mp no matter much mp you had.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

And it is the Complaining of the Forums which will if anything be the destruction of this game "If anything"

---

Except you're confusing complaining and asking questions which is all he's doing. Quick someone call the fanboy police, people be thinkin up in this mess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.

---

Beta player: Hey, this game sucks and if they release it that way it's gonna suck
"Fanboy": Are you crazy? How can you even say that?
Beta player: Well, I'm playing the game right now...and it sucks. They really need to fix - insert list here
"Fanboy": NO SHUT UP! MIRACLE PATCH BLAH BLAH BLAH


Current sittuation

That one guy: Hey...there's this video not related to jobs that conclusively shows jobs are broken
reasonable people in this thread: Uh...how can you say that based on a spell cancellation video?
That one guy: Well...uh...didn't you see it? It's on the video!
reasonable people in this thread: Have you played the job? Do you know exactly what changes happen when you become BLM? Do you?
That one guy: ....can't you see it? BLM IS BROKEN!



Yeah. Totally the same thing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaujien

Right, except the fact that he did voice his concern off of very VERY superficial, non-empirical (sp) information, and the majority of us have been trying to say, "Hey, bro, yeah it seems weird, but it's even more weird that they'd spend thousands of hours just to create something that will have little to no effect at all to the current system. I think you should just relax for the time being, try out the patch, and if you still have concerns voice them again once you've had a chance to actually try the new stuff out."

Yes, by all means voice your concerns, but don't shout "the sky is going to fall on Friday!" and expect to be coddled by the rest of the community. Especially when nearly every attempt to approach his concerns from a different perspective he's just going to sit there and shove his subjective concerns in your face like it's the factual realization of what will come.

---

yes, you are correct if i stated that as a general at everyone. if you look at the person i quoted though and go through this very forum you will see they are not part of the majority that have been stating "it looks weird, but wait"

the response like you give is correct and that i completely agree with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaujien

Wow, are you serious? .... actually PLAYING content and knowing it's crap is very different than watching a 45sec video showing off ONE aspect of ONE change (i.e., the 'H' button functionality) and assuming it's going to be crap.

Dude... c'mon, really? That's like watching a 30-second movie trailer, and posting on Facebook, "Look how crappy this movie is going to be. I know for fact!"

Man...

---

He never said he knew for a fact. This is why I'm saying you guys aren't reading what he's even posting. You're just jumping on him because he dares to speak out.

I'm fairly certain that, if he is wrong about what he infers based on what he's seen and knows, he will be quite ecstatic to be so. He even said as much. That doesn't mean he shouldn't ask questions in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaujien

Wow, are you serious? .... actually PLAYING content and knowing it's crap is very different than watching a 45sec video showing off ONE aspect of ONE change (i.e., the 'H' button functionality) and assuming it's going to be crap.

Dude... c'mon, really? That's like watching a 30-second movie trailer, and posting on Facebook, "Look how crappy this movie is going to be. I know for fact!"

Man...

---

M. Night Shamala movies suck, you only need to see his name in a movie trailer for 1 second to know it's gonna suck lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.

---

LOL Actually in beta I was telling people how bad the game was and that it shouldn't be released any time soon. I also quit FFXIV for a few months once released because I didn't want to play a game in that condition. Read my original statement and see what I said, I explained specific examples of why he shouldn't be worrying.

Once patch is released and if there is solid evidence that THM is better than BLM for the given role then we can complain all we want. By solid evidence I mean parse results showing how they compare, video evidence about how the play in comparison so we can see in real time the issues. What I don't mean is look at a video demonstrating spell casting interruption before the patch is finalized and released to determine how the entirety of a job that has been worked on for months will play out.

You can feel sad for me all you want, but the real sad thing is the impatience of someone who cannot wait a mere 72 hours for the release of a patch for a video game to receive the information they want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Then you aren't reading them. Wish I could say I was shocked.

---

We must be reading very different threads then because from the start of this thread Jinrya has been saying things like "So how do jobs help with their roles when they gimp your abilities, give no damage increase, no mp cut to certain spells." and "If I get proven wrong, and the mp cost is lowered, damage is vastly improved from Black Mage I will be ok with that. The video however doesn't show it." and "i am only saying that this patch makes me nervous that the job I have been waiting for will not live up to what I would like it to be, which is the highest dps of the classes. "

What i'm trying to say is just because his vision of what a "wizard" should be isn't the way it is in this game doesn't mean jobs are worse than classes. Higher damage and lower mp cost on spells is not the only way to improve party play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Except you're confusing complaining and asking questions which is all he's doing. Quick someone call the fanboy police, people be thinkin up in this mess.

---

2-3 days.

Tell me. What question is so imperative, that hasn't been answered, and can't wait 2-3 days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

What i'm trying to say is just because his vision of what a "wizard" should be isn't the way it is in this game doesn't mean jobs are worse than classes. Higher damage and lower mp cost on spells is not the only way to improve party play.

---

You have a good point with this and I will agree with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

2-3 days.

Tell me. What question is so imperative, that hasn't been answered, and can't wait 2-3 days?

---

If you need to even ask this question you shouldn't be posting in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Except you're confusing complaining and asking questions which is all he's doing. Quick someone call the fanboy police, people be thinkin up in this mess.

---

If actually stop and think for once.. you would understand.. then Complaining BEFORE a patch comes out is Idiotic, if he had problems with the patch when the patch is out.. then that would be different. But If you look at all the other videos that has been posted in Previous patches ALL of them every single one of them, were showing different result once the patch when live and everyone was trying them out! This is no Different at all.

Video Analysis:

- Eye doing 8k Damage in one hit in Darkhold... Seriously? you think that video was actually correct? :/
- 140 Damage for ARC per regular hit in Ifrit Battle ... No class can even barly hit over 20 per regular hit ( if he's Gear right).

You think either of those were accurately Correct before those patches went live... If you actually do then something is not registering in your brain... :/.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

If you need to even ask this question you shouldn't be posting in this thread.

---

Shave your soul patch. It's embarrassing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

He never said he knew for a fact. This is why I'm saying you guys aren't reading what he's even posting. You're just jumping on him because he dares to speak out.

I'm fairly certain that, if he is wrong about what he infers based on what he's seen and knows, he will be quite ecstatic to be so. He even said as much. That doesn't mean he shouldn't ask questions in the first place.

---

Ah, I must not be reading what he's posting - how SILLY of me...

Wait, where am I?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

If actually stop and think for once.. you would understand.. then Complaining BEFORE a patch comes out is Idiotic, if he had problems with the patch when the patch is out.. then that would be different. But If you look at all the other videos that has been posted in Previous patches ALL of them every single one of them, were showing different result once the patch when live and everyone was trying them out! This is no Different at all.

Video Analysis:

- Eye doing 8k Damage in one hit in Darkhold... Seriously? you think that video was actually correct? :/
- 140 Damage for ARC per regular hit in Ifrit Battle ... No class can even barly hit over 20 per regular hit ( if he's Gear right).

You think either of those were accurately Correct before those patches went live... If you actually do then something is not registering in your brain... :/.

---

Again, asking questions based on logical inference =/= complaining. There is a gargantuan difference and it would benefit you greatly to learn what that difference is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

How is a convert an gimped Exalation? That skill would never give you 2k+ mp no matter much mp you had.

---

We never had 3k mp to find out if it could give you back that much MP. When we did use it over the levels from 1-50 before taken out I would get atleast 75% mp back. Now I have to give up Hp to get back 75% mp.

But if SE continues for us to have ancient magic spells have one timer again, which is the same team that made it one timer before they were also removed, would you use burst and quite possibly pull hate, or use freeze and drop some enmity get a heal, and do some more combos?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Shave your soul patch. It's embarrassing.

---

No

/10char

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Again, asking questions based on logical inference =/= complaining. There is a gargantuan difference and it would benefit you greatly to learn what that difference is.

---

What's logical about taking numbers from a video that in the past always had skewed numbers? Nothing. That's why it's complaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Again, asking questions based on logical inference =/= complaining. There is a gargantuan difference and it would benefit you greatly to learn what that difference is.

---

Nothing Logical about a Video of its sole purpose is to show off Spell-casting Interruptions , Not Damage Dealing.. the same thing happened in the other videos.. were they correct when they were showing of the Dungeons or showing off iffy? No.. they don't >.>.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

What's logical about taking numbers from a video that in the past always had skewed numbers? Nothing. That's why it's complaining.

---

Oh what's logical about taking the very information the developers give us about game content, have good faith that they aren't lying or trolling us with false representations, and then ask the questions that naturally result from absorbing said information. I just have no idea... You got me. I'm completely stumped. You win the thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Oh what's logical about taking the very information the developers give us about game content, have good faith that they aren't lying or trolling us with false representations, and then ask the questions that naturally result from absorbing said information. I just have no idea... You got me. I'm completely stumped. You win the thread.

---

Steps to seeing its not " False Representation":

- Read Title of Video ( Spell-casting Interruptions) <--- Example
- Watch with your Viewing Pleasures ( about Spell-Casting Interruptions)
- Nothing else about that Video IS correct BUT the Spell-Casting Interruptions)

Case Closed, Next please!

Anyways... getting back on topic....

Since the job system is designed to improve party play I think it's best to look at the whole system instead of one piece of the system. (Like how survivability of each DD job may be low, but white mages and paladins can cover that weakness.) That's probably why it's not making sense. I mean comparing one job and one class from two systems with different purposes probably wasn't a good idea in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Again, asking questions based on logical inference =/= complaining. There is a gargantuan difference and it would benefit you greatly to learn what that difference is.

---

It is *not* a logical inference at all for various glaring and obvious reasons. I would think someone as smart and logical as you could see it.

1) The BLM in question was in THM gear, not job-specific gear. As it stands, that would be a very logical reason why its dmg output was similar to THM. Unless you want to tell me that jobs change stats (which hasnt be said anywhere as far as I know), there is *nothing* to worry about.

2) The video in question was not set up to display damage output. It was to display casting/spell cancel. As a result, it is rather silly to glean information from a video devoted to an entirely different purpose. There are a number of factors that could explain that dmg output, and since dmg was not the purpose of the video, it is *logical* to refrain from making any calculations based on the dmg displayed.

3) Past precedent (as has been said) dictates that dmg displayed in videos is never consistent with the live patch. It would be *logical* then to assume that this patch is no different.

Really, the OP was not operating on logic at all. If he sat and thought about it for a few seconds, he could reasonably conclude that he video was not an accurate representation of BLM dmg, at the very least because BLM did not have its job-specific gear. I bet DRG do similar dmg to my LNC if it was wearing all of my LNC gear. Duh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Oh what's logical about taking the very information the developers give us about game content, have good faith that they aren't lying or trolling us with false representations, and then ask the questions that naturally result from absorbing said information. I just have no idea... You got me. I'm completely stumped. You win the thread.

---

The video is about spell casting interruption, not damage. It seems you and the OP cannot get that through your heads. If the video was about damage on the new jobs then everyone would be fine with this thread, but it's not. The damage in the video is irrelevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Oh what's logical about taking the very information the developers give us about game content, have good faith that they aren't lying or trolling us with false representations, and then ask the questions that naturally result from absorbing said information. I just have no idea... You got me. I'm completely stumped. You win the thread.

---

The video was made to show /facetarget cast interruption system. Damage formulas and even recast timers have never been accurate in video previews. Usually the videos are recorded outside of the finalization stages and are rarely ever finished. This is always the case and always been the case.

The video wasn't specifically saying "Look at the dmg on this spell and the high recast or lack of recast on these spells". It was only saying, "Hey, look at spell interruption and /facetarget". You just are not looking at what was intended to be seen. When common sense should tell you that it's going to be inaccurate and different upon release.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

It is *not* a logical inference at all for various glaring and obvious reasons. I would think someone as smart and logical as you could see it.

1) The BLM in question was in THM gear, not job-specific gear. As it stands, that would be a very logical reason why its dmg output was similar to THM. Unless you want to tell me that jobs change stats (which hasnt be said anywhere as far as I know), there is *nothing* to worry about.

2) The video in question was not set up to display damage output. It was to display casting/spell cancel. As a result, it is rather silly to glean information from a video devoted to an entirely different purpose. There are a number of factors that could explain that dmg output, and since dmg was not the purpose of the video, it is *logical* to refrain from making any calculations based on the dmg displayed.

3) Past precedent (as has been said) dictates that dmg displayed in videos is never consistent with the live patch. It would be *logical* then to assume that this patch is no different.

Really, the OP was not operating on logic at all. If he sat and thought about it for a few seconds, he could reasonably conclude that he video was not an accurate representation of BLM dmg, at the very least because BLM did not have its job-specific gear. I bet DRG do similar dmg to my LNC if it was wearing all of my LNC gear. Duh.

---

Actually I think it was said that stats would change when you switch to a job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Isaaru

The video is about spell casting interruption, not damage. It seems you and the OP cannot get that through your heads. If the video was about damage on the new jobs then everyone would be fine with this thread, but it's not. The damage in the video is irrelevant.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brucey

The video was made to show /facetarget cast interruption system. Damage formulas and even recast timers have never been accurate in video previews. Usually the videos are recorded outside of the finalization stages and are rarely ever finished. This is always the case and always been the case.

The video wasn't specifically saying "Look at the dmg on this spell and the high recast or lack of recast on these spells". It was only saying, "Hey, look at spell interruption and /facetarget". You just are not looking at what was intended to be seen. When common sense should tell you that it's going to be inaccurate and different upon release.

---

This is what happens when you're twins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starlord

Steps to seeing its not " False Representation":

- Read Title of Video ( Spell-casting Interruptions) <--- Example
- Watch with your Viewing Pleasures ( about Spell-Casting Interruptions)
- Nothing else about that Video IS correct BUT the Spell-Casting Interruptions)

Case Closed, Next please!

---

Here's something for you to chew on and I truly hope that you do rattle it around in the noggin for a bit.

You assume that, just because the purpose of the video was to highlight a new feature, that the concerns OP posts are invalid due to your belief that it might not be showing BLM doing the kind of damage they will really do when the patch hits.

Completely an assumption on your part and in no way based on any evidence what-so-ever.

You are then using this assumption to make an argument that the OP should not make an argument based on his assumption that it might be accurately depicting what BLM can do.

Are you able to see the hypocrisy in this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Here's something for you to chew on and I truly hope that you do rattle it around in the noggin for a bit.

You assume that, just because the purpose of the video was to highlight a new feature, that the concerns OP posts are invalid due to your belief that it might not be showing BLM doing the kind of damage they will really do when the patch hits.

Completely an assumption on your part and in no way based on any evidence what-so-ever.

You are then using this assumption to make an argument that the OP should not make an argument based on his assumption that it might be accurately depicting what BLM can do.

Are you able to see the hypocrisy in this?

---

And you still fail to see Previous Videos weren't 100% accurate, and its always what they "want" to show" Namely Spell casting Interruptions is all they wanted to show.. 8k Damage on Darkhold eye? get real 140 dmg on iffy with a regular it.. are you losing it? I'm done with this conversation as its idiotic to continue something we haven't even tried yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

This is what happens when you're twins.

---

Nooooo.... it's what happens when reason is allowed to flurish....

like sweet dew on a lush meadow...

like the relationship between a puppy and a small child...

like the hard-boiled egg in a pot of boiling water....

like a Power Ranger metamorphasizing into the super hero...

like slow-churned heavy cream into ice cream.... (or gelatto - or h/e you spell it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

If you need to even ask this question you shouldn't be posting in this thread.

---

I manage a thread that's based entirely on questions about the job system. It's been around for months and had multiple dev responses. I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to jobs, what's been answered, and what we don't yet know.

Speaking of questions, way to avoid mine lol. Can't even give a straight answer yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

Oh what's logical about taking the very information the developers give us about game content, have good faith that they aren't lying or trolling us with false representations, and then ask the questions that naturally result from absorbing said information. I just have no idea... You got me. I'm completely stumped. You win the thread.

---

They posted a video that gave information about spell cancelling. Yoshi P also posted 2 walls of text to explain in further detail the mechanics behind the movement-based spell cancelling and the /facetarget feature. That video was very accurate in that regard.

This very same video, that the OP is basing almost everything he says on, had no intention of accurately displaying the damage capabilities of BLM. Anything quantitative in that video is subject to change. Furthermore, every video SE has released pior to a patch that shows content has had inaccurate numbers when it comes to damage done/taken. This has been repeatedly mentioned by people posting in this thread, and is more than enough to discount any credibility the damage values of the spellcasting video have. Sleep wasn't even running on a cooldown. It's very clearly being played in a sort of dev mode.

In conclusion, the spellcasting video was very accurate when it came to displaying spellcasting changes. As a bonus, we got to see he animation for Burst, as well as the new icon on the action bar that indicates if we are moving or not. Anything beyond that is subject to change and was irrelevant for the purpose of that video therefore did not need to be accurate.

SE is only trolling you with false representations if they claim they are showing you one thing, but then show it inaccurately. They did not claim that video showed the offensive abilities of BLM.